Tekken Mafia | Now with the real endgame flavour.... Who won?

[Swiss]

Kary. Yes.

Why on earth would I say otherwise.

I could probably have posted content instead of posting in the general thread.

Watchu' gonn do?

 

[adumbrodeus]

you're supposed to answer me! Don't you love me bby?

 

[Swiss]

WTF WAS YOUR QUESTION MAN

mfwidonteven

 

[adumbrodeus]

It was in the GD thread, wtf why would you even consider what happens in this thread important?

 

[adumbrodeus]

@frozenbro:Thoughts on swiss? Who do find scummy this game so far?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I can post via phone but don't expect anything.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

@Dark Horse: how confident are you in your reads on JDietz / Toastin' Dat Walrus?

Prett confident, actually, considering how people like Swiss agree with me, and Swiss has phenomenal reads.

 

[Swiss]

Swiss has phenomenal reads.

Toastin' lynch plz.

ggswiss2gud

 

[Swiss]

In all seriousness, I will actually contribute when I get home. Getting stressed today (losing £3,500 due to a douchebag agency much>??!1!1>)

Mafia is my only release.

FF when you post, be on my side. Follow me to my grave.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Unvote; Vote: Swiss

Nabe, what are your thoughts on RR?

Started off the game poorly, which has no bearing on his alignment. He's been posting about as much as me, nothing valuable, no analysis or reads really, agreements and other minutiae. Null, townRyu often takes the initiative, and townRyu also often does ****-all.

Disagree. His defense was incredibly piss poor, and hella scummy.

uh elaborate


Walking my dog then I'll be back, the last two pages are making me sex-drunk and headstrong and I don't want to end up skimming.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

uh elaborate

This right here:

Congratulations, you've figured out why I don't like pre-game stuff. People somehow use it to justify things ahead of time. Game started, I'm here. If you have a problem with what my actual opinions are, say so, otherwise come off it. You're flat proving to me it was the right decision and pre-game is beyond my scope by voting me for it.

It's not a Defense. Rather, he is just dismissing all of his attackers.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Also, elaborate on how he was "taking it in stride" and giving genuine answers.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

So I did some searches and Blazer hasn't posted at all in this game and Glyph hasn't even posted in the actual game (only pre-game) despite claiming that he would be "actually playing this game".

I think that warrants some attention.

@ Adum: Eh, idk about Swiss right now. I largely side with him in the Kuz/Gorf vs. Swiss debate about this whole powerplay debacle, but I don't really see that as being townie. He's just winning an easy argument to win IMO. If you couldn't already tell, I still am surprised Kuz made the argument he did in the first place. I'm still waiting on confirmation from him that he seriously believes everything he said in the post I quoted earlier.

None of Swiss's argumentation has set off scum alarms for me as of yet, but none of it seems particularly pro town either. Just decent argumentation.

As far as other reads, I'd say I see Nabe as pretty townie. Decent town vibes from DH too. That's really about it though, everyone else is pretty null.

 

[Blazer]

Sorry I've been totally innactive, I didn't realize the game had started. I'll try to catch up through the next day or two.

 

[Dooms]

V/LA until Monday actually.

A hack I'm working on screwed up and has to be restarted from scratch. Personal top priority so I won't be playing mafia until it gets back on track.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

I'm back and will be reading the game from this point onwards.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Getting to this game after work tomorrow.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

My analysis of Kuz's most recent post shows that he will likely be getting to this game after he attends some sort of 'work' tomorrow.

He's supporting the economy, which is a weak town tell (it would be a straight up town tell, but communist countries have economies too)

 

[Pink Lemonade]

@July: My other half agreed with Nabe's reasoning for throwing a vote down (the posts that Nabe thought was scummy I further elaborated on in 247 and 250) and didn't feel the need to state any other reasoning than what Nabe provided. The fact that Nabe voted first is inconsequential, we both planned on placing it there from pregame.

The thing is, I don't like Nabe's reasoning for his JDeitz vote from his #225 because all it says is that JDietz is scummy for not liking pre-game. My issue with that argument is I know I've seen this argument before, I believe in Diddy Kong Racing, where not wanting to participate in pre-game discussion was seen by some as scummy and it was a big deal, but I don't think it is and I don't think his statement about it was a strong basis for a vote. I actually agree with him that his one statement made him an easy target, which opens up for opportunistic votes.

I like that you sympathize with my situation wrt Adumb, but does Adumb's push really look like something scum would do in that position. He knows he's pushing off information that won't make him look good publicly. I'd be more inclined to think he's silently philating himself actually thinking he's caught on some suability rather than scum actually trying to strong-arm a lynch. He's most likely town.

I know that it's a possibility that he is town just pushing hard on this early game case, but I look at his actions and they seem scummy as well as wrong to me. I think that he's put a lot of energy into pushing this one case on these few points rather than trying to actually scumhunt or look into other players or even trying to look at your recent play. It's a very static read which has gotten him written off by a lot of people as town despite being a scummy way to approach a read. And I'm being told from a couple different people to write it off but that seems like an ***-backwards way to look at scummy behavior :-/

Now on to Ditz, taking my 247 and 250 into context, what about his tone and bravado makes you think he's just misunderstood town instead of scum trying to seem disinterested?

This I do understand and I think is a much more valid reason for voting JDeitz than what Nabe had said. In your #247 your point that there was no wifom utilized in pre-game I can agree with and I can see what you mean by a sense of bravado. Yet I think I read his posts in a completely different tone than you did; I read him as disgruntled that pre-game even happened, disgruntled that it lead to no RVS, and then disgruntled that his previous disgruntled states got him called scum. So I can see the bravado, but I don't think it makes him "scum trying to seem disinterested", I took his accusations of his accusers as more of a knee-jerk response from his disgruntled state of mind, which reads town to me rather than scum.

I got the same feeling you did too at first place, but don't you think he wouldn't put this much attention on himself or go after a power player so early into the game? I felt he was fake about and just doing it to get a read off Kuz, but apparently he was being serious. Don't you agree with my points or do you still see it your own way?

I can see your points, but I don't agree to them. I think that with a lot of power players in this game, going after a power player early could work well for him, or at least there is a risk/reward aspect of attacking a power player early on that adum could have benefited from. Clearly, since he's been all but written off as town by you and Kuz, if he is scum the risk might have paid off for him because he's now gotten town cred despite initially being called scummy.

I hate feeling like a Sheep but Nabe made a legitimate point in his post and something that I overlooked.

Explain to me though, what was the legitimate point that he made? And is your read still the same on him?

My estimation based on prior RVSes was that once kuz made that post that RVS was unsalvagable. Rather then vainly attempt it like I did in megaman and a place that shall not be mentioned, I chose to just run run with it.

Yes, I was serious.

And again, it wasn't that he did it, I entirely expected them to do something of that nature. Note that I didn't take the same stance on Swiss' even though he made a power play.

Why?

Look at what he's trying to do with it. He sets himself up to either deal with a serious rival or (at least what seemed to be intended) he'd just be able to laugh it off as RVS combined with prodding of swiss. The problem is it was tonally too serious, so it just doesn't mesh properly.

Hence, it seems wierd, uncomfortable, and forced.

I can understand everything but the bolded. I do think Kuz had a serious tone, but I had no doubts he was serious about discussing the hammer mechanic early on in the game. I didn't get the sense he was trying to laugh it off as RVS or as a prod at Swiss, it seemed like serious bargaining over immunity going on and I've seen RVS skipped to discuss mechanics before so I wasn't surprised.

However, couldn't the same accusation, that he was setting himself up to deal with a serious rival or to just laugh it off as RVS be true of you and Kuz?
Your scumread on him wasn't taken seriously by everyone for quite a while until you confirmed you were serious about it, and by that point you were already in a conflict with Kuz and couldn't back out of it then.

On a slightly more serious note, if the argument for Swiss/Toastin' having the hammer early is that it lessens the threat they pose as scum, as it lessens the value of the protection, why should we let either of them have the hammer in the first place? In fact, why don't we just lynch them over the first two days?
Why are they even arguing over what is a 'waste' of immunity if the premise for either of them having immunity Day 1/Day 2 also suggests they probably shouldn't have the hammer at all?
Is it just that they want the cool night-kill immunity for themselves?

Right now, I'm not against either of them having the hammer, but I'm not sure that I buy the argument for them having the hammer in the first place.
I might try and think up some good criteria for being a hammer candidate, we'll see.

We don't want to just lynch them over the first two Days because if either of them or town, they will be an asset to town. As for the hammer mechanic, I honestly don't think it will have a huge effect on the game, I actually think watching them fight over the immunity is more important than which one actually gets it D1/D2/whenever, because of the information it provides for reads.

Leaning Town. To put it bluntly, he's acting like Swiss (Leading town, etc etc.)I feel as though the majority of what he's talking about is the hammer, which is mechanics.

Do you think the mechanics discussion has helped or hurt your ability to read Swiss and Kuz?

Not going to quote Joey's catch-up but I like that he considered a lot of different players and also came to his own conclusions about players such as Adum, Soup, and Dark Horse rather than just sheeping town consensus. I also really liked Joey in this interaction:

Oh, hey joey.

So you're still terrible at this game then?

Implying that I've played more than 5 games since the last time we've played :v. Don't really learn a lot when you stopped playing for so long.

what I'm implying is that your logic is sophmoric and you need to reconsider your conclusions.

I feel like Joey's conclusions about Adum's play were fair and were very easy to understand, and instead of explaining or trying to talk with Joey about why he is wrong, he just insulted him and tried to discredit his reads by attacking him and his logic, and not the points he made.

@July: What is your read on RR?

I really thought he only had 2 posts up until now, turns out he had 20...so he's not proving very memorable for me. His vote on you was unsubstantiated at the time, which I didn't notice until rereading... well he eventually did but I don't find his reasoning very convincing, and the only other thing that I got from reading him was he has a town read on Joey :-/ so right now leaning scum and definitely flying under the radar.

Unvote
I have what I wanted, Ditz took three votes in stride and made a series of genuine observations
Soup and Toast both sus, examining when I'm on a CPU

Not sure what bolded means, BUT now that you "have what you wanted", what do you think of the other people who voted Deitz, including Soup and Toast?

Wow, I thought I would've had a lot more yelling, a lot more of something to say than a bunch of one-liners. Y'all kept away from the ****** fresh this game though so I guess that goes a little to the "Let's not give Laundry high blood pressure by 30" cause.

ANYWAY.

This entire Kuz/Swiss/Adumb interaction is frustrating because, to some degree, it starts to read like a clash of egos. Lemme talk about Adumb right now to get it out of the way: his logic is some mixture of flawed, overthought, and reaching but I'm struggling to call him scum from it. Reading tone on a toneless beast such as the internet is a very tricky thing to do and leaves a lot up to subjective interpretation. I don't trust where he's going with this and one game where he called one right isn't going to change my mind on this.

Now onto the big beast: I don't see why Kuz is doing half the **** he's doing. On the one hand, I think saying "he's scum because lol subtleties" is ******** because if I don't see those subtleties, I'm not going to get it. But on the one hand I question his motives as well. His entire reason for pushing Swiss to hammer D1 is fueled way more by paranoid suspicions that Swiss shouldn't get near LyLo and is not anchored nearly enough in reading Swiss. If he thinks Swiss is scum, he shouldn't need a power play to do it. He should be lynching Swiss, but instead he spent pages upon pages bickering with him and took a very roundabout way to getting to a Swiss vote when he should've been right on top of that immediately. He hasn't extrapolated why Swiss is scum and he's spent way too much energy arguing about how Swiss should have his invulnerability popped early rather than telling us why Swiss is scum in the first place. It's weird. His priorities are all over the place and it does make me question him.

I don't see a lot I like about Swiss from this. The only reason I even like him right now is because I don't see how he and Kuz could be on the same scumteam and I'm disliking Kuz right now. If Kuz flips town, Swiss comes into doubt again.

I got the Soup suspicions up until the last page. I've played enough with both sides of Soup to understand his tendencies. As scum, he tends not to care and tends to put very, very little effort into the game. The way he goes about reading people changes too. I saw a lot of the first in the game--his effort seemed waylaid by some ****fight in the pre-game and I started having my doubts. Then he posted that one post about JDietz that reads so strongly of townSoup fleshing out his read on a newer player that I've seen him do a number of times that it starts to make me like him.

I find it weird that JDietz got a lot of flak for saying that he disliked pre-game and didn't want to deal with it while FF said that he didn't really care for it and no one seemed to even bat an eye at it. That reads way more into the opportunistic "LET'S GET A SCRUB" thing than it does actual distaste for people not caring about pre-game despite things of weight happening in pre-game.

Who started that **** again? Oh, Nabe. Suddenly I like Nabe a little less. I would think he's less opportunistic than that, or at least sensible enough to at least say something to FF (already talked about Soup and I expect as much out of Kary).

I think that's all I really wanted to weigh in on.

vote: Toastin' Dat Walrus

For now anyway.

Got questions? Ask me!

I like the bolded, I don't think that is something that anyone has brought up yet.

Still, you seem suspicious of all the power players. Where exactly are Kuz, Swiss, Adum, and FF in relation to each other in terms of scum/town reads?

I don't like how he delved into the hammer discussion to get it removed from Swiss, but how your treating him is odd and trying to force his immunity early is implying he want a shot at a night kill on him or want scum to do such.

I didn't like your slot from the Swiss v Toastin interaction.

What are your thoughts on Swiss from the Swiss/Toastin interactions? And your thoughts on the Kuz/Adum interactions?

Also, do you have any scumreads other than Toast?

My computer died and I almost lost all of this, so posting now and then I'll get to what's left in my next post.

 

[Pink Lemonade]

@July: My other half agreed with Nabe's reasoning for throwing a vote down (the posts that Nabe thought was scummy I further elaborated on in 247 and 250) and didn't feel the need to state any other reasoning than what Nabe provided. The fact that Nabe voted first is inconsequential, we both planned on placing it there from pregame.

The thing is, I don't like Nabe's reasoning for his JDeitz vote from his #225 because all it says is that JDietz is scummy for not liking pre-game. My issue with that argument is I know I've seen this argument before, I believe in Diddy Kong Racing, where not wanting to participate in pre-game discussion was seen by some as scummy and it was a big deal, but I don't think it is and I don't think that it was a strong basis for a vote. I actually agree with him that his one statement made him an easy target, which opens up for opportunistic votes.

I like that you sympathize with my situation wrt Adumb, but does Adumb's push really look like something scum would do in that position. He knows he's pushing off information that won't make him look good publicly. I'd be more inclined to think he's silently philating himself actually thinking he's caught on some suability rather than scum actually trying to strong-arm a lynch. He's most likely town.

I know that it's a possibility that he is town just pushing hard on this early game case, but I look at his actions and they seem scummy as well as wrong to me. I think that he's put a lot of energy into pushing this one case on these few points rather than trying to actually scumhunt or look into other players or even trying to look at your recent play. It's a very static read which has gotten him written off by a lot of people as town despite being a scummy way to approach a read. And I'm being told from a couple different people to write it off but that seems like an ***-backwards way to look at scummy behavior :-/

Now on to Ditz, taking my 247 and 250 into context, what about his tone and bravado makes you think he's just misunderstood town instead of scum trying to seem disinterested?

This I do understand and I think is a much more valid reason for voting JDeitz than what Nabe had said. In your #247 your point that there was no wifom utilized in pre-game I can agree with and I can see what you mean by a sense of bravado. Yet I think I read his posts in a completely different tone than you did; I read him as disgruntled that pre-game even happened, disgruntled that it lead to no RVS, and then disgruntled that his previous disgruntled states got him called scum. So I can see the bravado, but I don't think it makes him "scum trying to seem disinterested", I took his accusations of his accusers as more of a knee-jerk response from his disgruntled state of mind, which reads town to me rather than scum.

I got the same feeling you did too at first place, but don't you think he wouldn't put this much attention on himself or go after a power player so early into the game? I felt he was fake about and just doing it to get a read off Kuz, but apparently he was being serious. Don't you agree with my points or do you still see it your own way?

I can see your points, but I don't agree to them. I think that with a lot of power players in this game, going after a power player early could work well for him, or at least there is a risk/reward aspect of attacking a power player early on that adum could have benefited from. Clearly, since he's been all but written off as town by you and Kuz, if he is scum the risk might have paid off for him because he's now gotten town cred despite initially being called scummy.

I hate feeling like a Sheep but Nabe made a legitimate point in his post and something that I overlooked.

Explain to me though, what was the legitimate point that he made? And is your read still the same on him?

My estimation based on prior RVSes was that once kuz made that post that RVS was unsalvagable. Rather then vainly attempt it like I did in megaman and a place that shall not be mentioned, I chose to just run run with it.

Yes, I was serious.

And again, it wasn't that he did it, I entirely expected them to do something of that nature. Note that I didn't take the same stance on Swiss' even though he made a power play.

Why?

Look at what he's trying to do with it. He sets himself up to either deal with a serious rival or (at least what seemed to be intended) he'd just be able to laugh it off as RVS combined with prodding of swiss. The problem is it was tonally too serious, so it just doesn't mesh properly.

Hence, it seems wierd, uncomfortable, and forced.

I can understand everything but the bolded. I do think Kuz had a serious tone, but I had no doubts he was serious about discussing the hammer mechanic early on in the game. I didn't get the sense he was trying to laugh it off as RVS or as a prod at Swiss, it seemed like serious bargaining over immunity going on and I've seen RVS skipped to discuss mechanics before so I wasn't surprised.

However, couldn't the same accusation, that he was setting himself up to deal with a serious rival or to just laugh it off as RVS be true of you and Kuz?
Your scumread on him wasn't taken seriously by everyone for quite a while until you confirmed you were serious about it, and by that point you were already in a conflict with Kuz and couldn't back out of it then.

On a slightly more serious note, if the argument for Swiss/Toastin' having the hammer early is that it lessens the threat they pose as scum, as it lessens the value of the protection, why should we let either of them have the hammer in the first place? In fact, why don't we just lynch them over the first two days?
Why are they even arguing over what is a 'waste' of immunity if the premise for either of them having immunity Day 1/Day 2 also suggests they probably shouldn't have the hammer at all?
Is it just that they want the cool night-kill immunity for themselves?

Right now, I'm not against either of them having the hammer, but I'm not sure that I buy the argument for them having the hammer in the first place.
I might try and think up some good criteria for being a hammer candidate, we'll see.

We don't want to just lynch them over the first two Days because if either of them or town, they will be an asset to town. As for the hammer mechanic, I honestly don't think it will have a huge effect on the game, I actually think watching them fight over the immunity is more important than which one actually gets it D1/D2/whenever, because of the information it provides for reads.

Leaning Town. To put it bluntly, he's acting like Swiss (Leading town, etc etc.)I feel as though the majority of what he's talking about is the hammer, which is mechanics.

Do you think the mechanics discussion has helped or hurt your ability to read Swiss and Kuz?

Not going to quote Joey's catch-up but I like that he considered a lot of different players and also came to his own conclusions about players such as Adum, Soup, and Dark Horse rather than just sheeping town consensus. I also really liked Joey in this interaction:

Oh, hey joey.

So you're still terrible at this game then?

Implying that I've played more than 5 games since the last time we've played :v. Don't really learn a lot when you stopped playing for so long.

what I'm implying is that your logic is sophmoric and you need to reconsider your conclusions.

I feel like Joey's conclusions about Adum's play were fair and were very easy to understand, and instead of explaining or trying to talk with Joey about why he is wrong, he just insulted him and tried to discredit his reads by attacking him and his logic, and not the points he made.

@July: What is your read on RR?

I really thought he only had 2 posts up until now, turns out he had 20...so he's not proving very memorable for me. His vote on you was unsubstantiated at the time, which I didn't notice until rereading... well he eventually did but I don't find his reasoning very convincing, and the only other thing that I got from reading him was he has a town read on Joey :-/ so right now leaning scum and definitely flying under the radar.

Unvote
I have what I wanted, Ditz took three votes in stride and made a series of genuine observations
Soup and Toast both sus, examining when I'm on a CPU

Not sure what bolded means, BUT now that you "have what you wanted", what do you think of the other people who voted Deitz, including Soup and Toast?

Wow, I thought I would've had a lot more yelling, a lot more of something to say than a bunch of one-liners. Y'all kept away from the ****** fresh this game though so I guess that goes a little to the "Let's not give Laundry high blood pressure by 30" cause.

ANYWAY.

This entire Kuz/Swiss/Adumb interaction is frustrating because, to some degree, it starts to read like a clash of egos. Lemme talk about Adumb right now to get it out of the way: his logic is some mixture of flawed, overthought, and reaching but I'm struggling to call him scum from it. Reading tone on a toneless beast such as the internet is a very tricky thing to do and leaves a lot up to subjective interpretation. I don't trust where he's going with this and one game where he called one right isn't going to change my mind on this.

Now onto the big beast: I don't see why Kuz is doing half the **** he's doing. On the one hand, I think saying "he's scum because lol subtleties" is ******** because if I don't see those subtleties, I'm not going to get it. But on the one hand I question his motives as well. His entire reason for pushing Swiss to hammer D1 is fueled way more by paranoid suspicions that Swiss shouldn't get near LyLo and is not anchored nearly enough in reading Swiss. If he thinks Swiss is scum, he shouldn't need a power play to do it. He should be lynching Swiss, but instead he spent pages upon pages bickering with him and took a very roundabout way to getting to a Swiss vote when he should've been right on top of that immediately. He hasn't extrapolated why Swiss is scum and he's spent way too much energy arguing about how Swiss should have his invulnerability popped early rather than telling us why Swiss is scum in the first place. It's weird. His priorities are all over the place and it does make me question him.

I don't see a lot I like about Swiss from this. The only reason I even like him right now is because I don't see how he and Kuz could be on the same scumteam and I'm disliking Kuz right now. If Kuz flips town, Swiss comes into doubt again.

I got the Soup suspicions up until the last page. I've played enough with both sides of Soup to understand his tendencies. As scum, he tends not to care and tends to put very, very little effort into the game. The way he goes about reading people changes too. I saw a lot of the first in the game--his effort seemed waylaid by some ****fight in the pre-game and I started having my doubts. Then he posted that one post about JDietz that reads so strongly of townSoup fleshing out his read on a newer player that I've seen him do a number of times that it starts to make me like him.

I find it weird that JDietz got a lot of flak for saying that he disliked pre-game and didn't want to deal with it while FF said that he didn't really care for it and no one seemed to even bat an eye at it. That reads way more into the opportunistic "LET'S GET A SCRUB" thing than it does actual distaste for people not caring about pre-game despite things of weight happening in pre-game.

Who started that **** again? Oh, Nabe. Suddenly I like Nabe a little less. I would think he's less opportunistic than that, or at least sensible enough to at least say something to FF (already talked about Soup and I expect as much out of Kary).

I think that's all I really wanted to weigh in on.

vote: Toastin' Dat Walrus

For now anyway.

Got questions? Ask me!

I like the bolded, I don't think that is something that anyone has brought up yet.

Still, you seem suspicious of all the power players. Where exactly are Kuz, Swiss, Adum, and FF in relation to each other in terms of scum/town reads?

I don't like how he delved into the hammer discussion to get it removed from Swiss, but how your treating him is odd and trying to force his immunity early is implying he want a shot at a night kill on him or want scum to do such.

I didn't like your slot from the Swiss v Toastin interaction.

What are your thoughts on Swiss from the Swiss/Toastin interactions? And your thoughts on the Kuz/Adum interactions?

Also, do you have any scumreads other than Toast?

My computer died and I almost lost this whole freaking thing, so posting now and I'll get to what's left in my next post.

 

[Pink Lemonade]

@Mod: can you delete my double post please

I'm very sorry for the double posting of a wall...not even sure how that freaking happened ;-;

 

[Pink Lemonade]

@Pink Lemonade: What are your thoughts about the people who are on the Toastin' waggon? I.e. how do you feel about them being on that waggon/their reasons for being on that waggon.
(i.e. these people: Red Ruy / Jdietz43 / adumbrodeus / Swiss / Dark Horse / WashedLaundry)

I've already stated my reads and reasons for not liking RR and Adum.

JDietz I still think is disgruntled town, and with that perspective his vote on Toast makes sense. The argument that the JDeitz wagon was an easy one based on his comments about pre-game is something I've considered as well, so I can understand why he saw Kuz's vote on him as opportunistic and voted in return.

Swiss's vote also makes sense in that Swiss and Kuz have been locked in this power struggle/hammer discussion since pre-game. The only thing about Swiss's vote I don't understand is the timing, why now and not earlier, but other than that his vote makes sense.

Dark Horse, I don't particularly remember when he voted, and I remember his JDietz vote/case much more than his stance on Toastin. I know he's had a Toast scumread for a little while though and that his reads have lined up with Swiss's, so overall I'm taking his vote/reasoning as null right now.

And WL brought out new reasons to vote Kuz and didn't just sheep other people's reasons, and I thought his reasons were convincing and made sense, so I'm fine with his vote on the Toast wagon. Want to see more from WL but right now he's leaning town for me.


@Kary, what are your thoughts on Nabe?

 

[adumbrodeus]

I can understand everything but the bolded. I do think Kuz had a serious tone, but I had no doubts he was serious about discussing the hammer mechanic early on in the game. I didn't get the sense he was trying to laugh it off as RVS or as a prod at Swiss, it seemed like serious bargaining over immunity going on and I've seen RVS skipped to discuss mechanics before so I wasn't surprised.

However, couldn't the same accusation, that he was setting himself up to deal with a serious rival or to just laugh it off as RVS be true of you and Kuz?
Your scumread on him wasn't taken seriously by everyone for quite a while until you confirmed you were serious about it, and by that point you were already in a conflict with Kuz and couldn't back out of it then.

Did kuz follow it up?

His tone was serious, but he just dropped it when nobody followed it up, that's why it's wierd and uncomfortable.

I feel like Joey's conclusions about Adum's play were fair and were very easy to understand, and instead of explaining or trying to talk with Joey about why he is wrong, he just insulted him and tried to discredit his reads by attacking him and his logic, and not the points he made.

I feel like you're subsisting on pointing out supposed hypocrosy, but note that I'm not dismissing a case against me via this method. I'm dismissing his dismissal of my case against kuz, something that was taken quite seriously by the better players in the game and something I'd already been explain and continued explaining.

So, I was being a d*ck because he was calling my play dumb, not because he was making a case on me. I was pointing out that calling it dumb or scum said more about his level of play then mine. Ultimately an exertion to take my case seriously and vote toastin.


Gorf on the other hand, used it as his exclusive method for dealing with cases against him, without making significant contributions in other areas. Hence the flailing scum read.



Now that I've explained why it's not hypocrisy, would you vote toastin?

 

[Swiss]

Adum, NA?

:3

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Do you think the mechanics discussion has helped or hurt your ability to read Swiss and Kuz?

Yes, considering that Kuz's terrible swiss strategy is pretty scummy.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

@Kary, what are your thoughts on Nabe?

I don't know about Nabe, need more from him. I'm kind of waiting on Nabe vs. Soup because apparently that is going to happen. His entrance I was a bit indifferent about, especially the vote/unvote on kuz, and I couldn't tell whether he genuinely believed the points he made against JDietz:

"I won't be reading pregame"
"I hate games with content in pregame"
"I have reads based on what I've read of the pregame content"

Or whether he skewing what had happened in order to pressure JDietz.

Can't really get a read on him right now, waiting to see what he does.

 

[Kataefi]

VOTE COUNT:

[6] Toastin' Dat Walrus: Red Ruy / Jdietz43 / adumbrodeus / Swiss / Dark Horse / WashedLaundry
[1] adumbrodeus: Pink Lemonade
[1] Swiss: Toastin' Dat Walrus

[0] -Masquerain-
[0] Яagnarock
[0] Kary
[0] Blazer
[0] DtJ Glyphmoney
[0] Nabe
[0] Red Ruy
[0] WashedLaundry
[0] Fynal
[0] frozenflame751
[0] Pink Lemonade
[0] Dark Horse
[0] Jdietz43

[8] Not Voting: Kary / Blazer / DtJ Glyphmoney / Fynal / frozenflame751 / -Masquerain- / Nabe / Яagnarock

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch!

Declared V/LAs:

• Fynal [until tonight]
• Red Ryu [until Sunday]
• -Masquerain- [until Monday]

 

[Jdietz43]

V/LA until September ends


@Fynal: Where is your head at right now in all this when you return? Which of the big 3 discussed (Swiss/Toastin/Adum) do you feel the best about, which do you feel the worst about and why?

 

[Jdietz43]

@Adum: Would you mind giving us some more of your reads on any non-Toastin slot? Say Soup/Kary/Nabe?

 

[Blazer]

/confirm

I'd just like to say I'm not new and that I missed mafia here. You guys play so much more intelligently than what I've been stuck with recently it's wrong.

I originally joined here, played about 2 or 3 games here (KH Mafia being my first) then went to a different site where I hosted the majority of the mafia games. I'm gonna be green to your playstyles so I'm throwing that out there.
Almost done playing catch up now. Will be active asap.

 

[Swiss]

What site?

Links to your best performances, por favor.

 

[Blazer]

All games are gone now, sadly. So tis impossible.

 

[Blazer]

Okay, so I'm finally caught up and have a massive headache from reading almost all 29 pages at once.

I don't trust Swiss too much, primarily because of a post where he requested that people he didn't know much about should basically hivemind to him or FF. I know for sure FF is good (I've played with him in a game or two) but he's always innactive. Swiss I don't know much about and won't just blindly trust. I honestly don't have much more to say on the subject and I realize it's not much of a contribution as it's not enough for me to even consider voting on him.

Other than that I didn't form too many opinions due to mostly skimming. I'll probably stay fairly quiet and avoid voting until I feel I'm caught back up with the conversation and not in a position of half understanding.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

And..the current wagon of Toastin?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

EBWOP: 40ppp is your friend

 

[Blazer]

I haven't much an opinion on the matter of toastin yet. (I read a ton at once, so the closer we get to now the more I stopped actually reading)
I did agree with a lot of Toastin's points though. As for whether or not I think he is scum I'll need more time. I'm leaning towards him being town though.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Other than that I didn't form too many opinions due to mostly skimming. I'll probably stay fairly quiet and avoid voting until I feel I'm caught back up with the conversation and not in a position of half understanding.

Hands up if you think this reeks of scum too.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

10characters

 

[Blazer]

Hands up if you think this reeks of scum too.

What it reeks of is having just read 29 (now 11) pages in about 2 sittings. I don't have anything to contribute because the posts are 10 paragraphs long (at 10 posts a page or so that's 2900 paragraphs. <_<)

Neither Rome nor my opinion is to be built in a day.