Tech skill, in MY gameandwatch?!

[_Phloat_]

Hi guys. Phloat here, poster, spammer, and sometimes tourney goer. Most of the GaW boards probably know me.

Anyways, I was doing my daily ritual of thinking of Marth and smashing things. Then I thought, why am I so angry? Then, I remembered DS OOS and smashed a mirror.

Then another thought came to my head. It was of this thread. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=221236

This thread has an interesting survival idea that was waaay to situational to actually save lives. You basically SDI into the floor and tech, which keeps you in place, often to get smashed again. You can techroll and be safe too =D.

So, I was thinking.. why was this not as useful as it seems? It allows you to survive at any %! I realized there are some limitations to this that makes it semi-impossible to use in normal matches.

1. You have to be in the air.
2. You have to have a good idea of when you are gonna get hit. As in, normally enough of a time to be able to like.. avoid the hit. This technique isn't worth getting hit for!

I had come to a realization. As I set down my hammer and sock full of rocks, I realized that GaW fills both of these conditions as he is bairing Marth's shield.

So, if this was useful and we got it down, we could change

Bair shield -> Get DSed

into

Bair shield -> SDI down hardcore, before the hit to use buffers to our advantage -> Smash into the ground and either a)tech or b) get up -> Smash or nair juggle marth.

Thoughts? I know this isn't like a huge discovery. Marth is still fast, strong, and ranged. But this could be another gimmick that saves a stock or two, and gets some off on Marth...

 

[UTDZac]

Wow someone test this. If it's true, that means Marth can't UpB OOS without taking an Fsmash to the face. O.O

wow...... I hope it works, but I'm skeptical.

 

[_Phloat_]

Yea, I don't have a wii but it would be cool.

Also, if you start your buffers for the SDI too soon you will just FF, and when you are on the ground you will eat SL.

So, I would drift away while dairing, if you are aiming to use this tactic.

 

[Neb]

I tested it myself, putting the SDI inputs right after performing a FH bair, and had Marth DS OOS.
G&W just seems to slide across the floor while teching. But that could just be me, I mean I was doing it all by myself.

 

[t3h n00b]

Wow someone test this. If it's true, that means Marth can't UpB OOS without taking an Fsmash to the face. O.O

wow...... I hope it works, but I'm skeptical.

The SDI down>tech thing works for sure, but mostly on multi-hit moves, or when you're in midair getting hit. Doing it in a match, and counterattacking afterwards may be difficult.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

If this does work, I'll get on recording it. I don't see why it wouldn't work.
Good thinking <3

 

[_Phloat_]

I tested it myself, putting the SDI inputs right after performing a FH bair, and had Marth DS OOS.
G&W just seems to slide across the floor while teching. But that could just be me, I mean I was doing it all by myself.

You mean SH?

also, try techrolling towards =]

The SDI down>tech thing works for sure, but mostly on multi-hit moves, or when you're in midair getting hit. Doing it in a match, and counterattacking afterwards may be difficult.

Multi hit moves are easier to SDI for a few reasons. Number one being that when you are hit, brawl decides to freeze for a few seconds, and multi hitting moves give you ample time to react. This tactic would give you that time, because we know the Marth's reaction to turtle, we just haven't been able to counteract it until maybe now.

Also, if this DOES work. It is the Phloat cancelling Phloat attack. You must yell THANK YOU PHLOAT, YEAAAAAA whenever you use it.

 

[UTDZac]

@Phloat: You did not just say "I will name this technique after myself."

 

[Mr. Escalator]

DLX Phloat cancelling is really good.

 

[toobusytocare]

So basically as i hit marth's shield with a bair, I start mashing my control stick down to smash DI into the floor?

 

[cutter]

Phloat cancelling is just glorified SDIing.

jk jk Phloat this sounds very promising. What if Marth decides to mix up his punishment though and do something like side B instead of up B?

Too bad this wouldn't work against MK's up B since he obviously doesn't go into fallspecial like Marth.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Cutter, side B OoS doesn't work on G&W (not to mention he has to cancel his shield before he can do the side B). This is a good way to punish Marth for upBing you, and he can't really do anything about it. It's a free something as long as you can land it.

 

[K 2]

Wow that sounds really cool. I have a hard time practicing this stuff by myself. I have to hold shield and up B with my feet, while bairing with G&W and preparing to SDI down and tech...it doesn't work out too well. But if this works, it has lots of potential to change the match-up, since one of the main factors is marth's up b'ing bair.

 

[toobusytocare]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=221969

do i do the QCDI as described in the link above?

how do i SDI marths DS?

HALP!

 

[t3h n00b]

The guide's long, but it explains pretty much everything. Maybe a more specific question would help.

 

[_Phloat_]

@Phloat: You did not just say "I will name this technique after myself."

I am an exception. Duh.

DLX Phloat cancelling is really good.

DOOP PHLOAT WALK CANCEL.

Phloat cancelling is just glorified SDIing.

jk jk Phloat this sounds very promising. What if Marth decides to mix up his punishment though and do something like side B instead of up B?

Too bad this wouldn't work against MK's up B since he obviously doesn't go into fallspecial like Marth.

well, if he mixes it up you get punished. I mean, you are bairing a marth, so take what you get =P. The SDI could be done behind if he punishes with DB...

Wow that sounds really cool. I have a hard time practicing this stuff by myself. I have to hold shield and up B with my feet, while bairing with G&W and preparing to SDI down and tech...it doesn't work out too well. But if this works, it has lots of potential to change the match-up, since one of the main factors is marth's up b'ing bair.

Lol! Get a friend/slave/pet to do it. I find these things are easiest to practice in Slomo in training mode, at least to get a grasp.

any confirmation this works guys? Lol, I haven't tried, it was just a thought.

 

[toobusytocare]

The guide's long, but it explains pretty much everything. Maybe a more specific question would help.

Just skip to the part of the guide about QCDI....

How do you SDI this?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Holy ****, best idea yet. You may have just saved the G&W vs Marth matchup.

Except....the smart Marth players will actually wait for you to land...then again, you have SPACING to counter that!

Also, I believe this would possibly work against something like Luigi's Jab-> Up-B...since his Jab pops you slightly in the air. Just a theory though.

Also, do this against a lot of DK's stuff in case you forget to shield. DK's strongest KO moves like Smashes, and Giant Punch all have a lot of hitlag, so you can get a good bit of SDI on them.

 

[_Phloat_]

Yea, if you start the SDI soon you will simply FastFall to the ground and eat DS, but DIing away is a good alternative if he starts doing this.

 

[cemo]

when should you input the tech?
melee style before you get hit?

good thinking, though. i didn't think to apply that to this. (:

 

[_Phloat_]

When you input the shield button, you have 20 frames of time where you will tech. Then the next 40 you cannot.

 

[cemo]

i thought you couldn't input the tech while being hit, though? maybe my memory is a little off.

counterpick stagestrike away from battlefield, you don't want him up-bing onto the platform.

 

[AzNfinesse]

just tested it with my marth and it seems to work. but once you hit a certain percentage the timing gets really, really, REALLY tough. I forgot what % it was probably around 100%. I like this though...i'm going to use this a lot more.

 

[_Phloat_]

So, how much time did this allot you to punish with? Could you, say, u-air a marth before he landed on a platform, or at least nair him before he can move?

 

[UTDZac]

Just to let you guys know, it's REALLY hard to keep a Marth in the air with G&W's uair. Normally it's kinda difficult just because Marth fall decently fast. But if the Marth player knows about the fact that tapping down on the control stick makes him fast fall even faster during the uair wind, it's way to difficult.

Just focus on punishing with a smash attack.

 

[cutter]

Just to let you guys know, it's REALLY hard to keep a Marth in the air with G&W's uair. Normally it's kinda difficult just because Marth fall decently fast. But if the Marth player knows about the fact that tapping down on the control stick makes him fast fall even faster during the uair wind, it's way to difficult.

Just focus on punishing with a smash attack.

I definately agree with this.

 

[_Phloat_]

If he fastfalls at you, all he has is airdodge and a crappy dair though...

 

[toobusytocare]

has anyone got this down really well yet?

just wonderin

 

[UTDZac]

I tried to do this, but I can't get it down. Mind you, I only tried 3 times. If I gave it more effort then I can probably get it. This is worth knowing.

Marth's UpB OoS does 13%, so if you can punish him back with a smash that does 16+ then it's completely worth learning this.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

I'll get a replay today, hopefully, while I'm at a little Smash get together before Mass Madness. I'll then get a recording up this evening, assuming I got the replay!

 

[cemo]

If I run into any Marth's tomorrow I'll try it out.
Heading to a little ottawa tournament.

 

[AzNfinesse]

So, how much time did this allot you to punish with? Could you, say, u-air a marth before he landed on a platform, or at least nair him before he can move?

depending on how much damage you have it is possible to get an upsmash in before marth lands. however, it's probably best to exploit the lag and go into a grab or dsmash.

 

[GPEternity]

Sounds hard to do consistently in the first place. In which case Marth's can just practice activating their DS a couple frames before you land and hit you during the 4 frame dead time that you have from regular landing lag + before your shield comes out. DS comes out in 5 frames, so DS OoS 2-3 frames before GW hits the ground and he will be grounded at the time he gets hit, making SDI -> Tech impossible. Unless GW's Turtle can magically cancel normal landing lag and startup time for the next action too.

Also Marth can sacrifice damage and knockback by DS'ing when GW is higher above the ground, a few inches will make SDI'ing all the way to the ground near impossible. Given GW's weight a higher up DS to avoid this tech will still have enough knockback at medium (which is sometimes near death) percentages for GW to not be able to punish the DS lag.

 

[_Phloat_]

Mhmm, it is certainly not a perfect solution. Still, it can turn the tides of a bair on marth's shield, so it is worth something...

 

[AzNfinesse]

yea it's not a reliable thing. however, if you're playing in a tournament against a marth that consistently does this and it's their first time playing you, you can pull this on them and definitely turn the tides. if you can practice this and make it a reliable skill, it can severely turn the tides of the fight in your favor.

 

[UTDZac]

A big problem is that Marth can DS after any of the 5 hits from G&W's bair. So it's nearly impossible for us to guess exactly when.

 

[cutter]

A big problem is that Marth can DS after any of the 5 hits from G&W's bair. So it's nearly impossible for us to guess exactly when.

What if you took advantage of the buffer system and started to input the SDI command as you're Bairing Marth's shield? Because once that happens you know the up B going to come.

 

[cemo]

i thought the idea was to bair the shield, and then retreat to outside of DS range.
so if he hits you, sdi and tech, if not, free pressure?

 

[omegablackmage]

very good thinking, i'll have to look into this very soon

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Well, I didnt actually get a replay of it, as I didnt do it. The person who used Marth got bored with trying to do it so we went back to 1v1s.

Uups!