TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[Bowser King]

If that is the case then only the games are canon and the only things Mewtwo can do is shotting random beams and lights. Damaging lights, but still nothing Samus has not faced before.

Again, the game has stated that pokemon are weakened when confined in pokeballs and in all off the games, the legendaries never really show all there true powers because once you catch them there confined.

I'm pretty sure professor rowan said that on spear pillar when he tells you to catch dialga.

Plus, even if we go by in-game alone, mewtwo can do a lot more then "random beams and lights". He can confuse his enemies, put them to sleep, disable the moves/weapons, recover, protect him self, boost his attack/defense/speed, predict the future, cause a blizzard or thunderstorm


Actually, just look at this and see how he can use each of his move. He isn't limited in options by any mean.

EDIT: .....they only do the dubbing, the people who actually make the show aren't 4kids.
-Bowser King

 

[tocador]

actually im willing to believe that they lied. But even so, this mathe-geek is only one of a few cases that can process that high. Generally, the brain's processing speed is around 4-6 terabytes I guess. But who knows, that number can easily change in either direction.

Anyways this whole canon thing is pretty vague if u dont mind my saying...
especially since movies and mangas may very well contradict what the games state or demonstrate.

Yeah i know, people always lie to us =/.

And i have a question to all of you, what does mewtwo psichic(DAM, sorry for mispelling) does? I mean, it sure does damage in games, controls everything in anime, and i dont know what it does in manga, but im sure it should be at least "making-tornadoes" versatille.

Otherwise, he can just mind control samus ^^.

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

Again, the game has stated that pokemon are weakened when confined in pokeballs and in all off the games, the legendaries never really show all there true powers because once you catch them there confined.

I'm pretty sure professor rowan said that on spear pillar when he tells you to catch dialga.

Plus, even if we go by in-game alone, mewtwo can do a lot more then "random beams and lights". He can confuse his enemies, put them to sleep, disable the moves/weapons, recover, protect him self, boost his attack/defense/speed, predict the future, cause a blizzard or thunderstorm


Actually, just look at this and see how he can use each of his move. He isn't limited in options by any mean.

-Bowser King

PFFF If that is the case then Mewtwo must be extremely powerful and must have been an extremely tough bosss fight.....but wait, I could always kill him in two hits if I did not wanted to catch him.


And he could only use 4 attacks. That is pretty limited.



AND the show is made by OLM inc studios. They still have nothing to do with Gamefreaks or Nintendo.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Psywave is a psychic tornado, according to chapter 35. It is still an attack, not psionic abilities.

Yes... exactly.


You don't seem to be understanding here, his attacks are psionic abilities because that's how he uses attacks, through utilization of psionic abilities.


Therefore the ability to execute the attack demonstrates the power needed.

And no, The tv series is licensed by pokemon USA and 4kids entertainment. Gamefreak had nothing to do with the anime besides giving permission to do make it.

That's what licensing does, isn't it? However, for the preservation of intellectual property, liscencing also forces specific guidelines on the groups producing it. This has the net effect of it also being the "word of god".

Also, it's not 4kids, it's OLM Incorporated, 4kids only has the rights in the US, it did not make the anime.

PFFF If that is the case then Mewtwo must be extremely powerful and must have been an extremely tough bosss fight.....but wait, I could always kill him in two hits if I did not wanted to catch him.


And he could only use 4 attacks. That is pretty limited.

Ummm, there's a reason mewtwo is in ubers competitively.


And again, 4 attacks... that's a gameplay mechanic. In fact, the fact that his actual abilities are reduced to those 4 attacks is a gameplay mechanic, psionics are amazingly versatile, and gameplay mechanics are not canonical.

 

[Bowser King]

PFFF If that is the case then Mewtwo must be extremely powerful and must have been an extremely tough bosss fight.....but wait, I could always kill him in two hits if I did not wanted to catch him.


And he could only use 4 attacks. That is pretty limited.



AND the show is made by OLM inc studios. They still have nothing to do with Gamefreaks or Nintendo.

Again, he's able to use his full power. Also, the battle with mewtwo was terrible. He was a very hard to catch pokemon and took me a long time to catch him (his catch rate is really high if I remember correctly). That plus recover makes it a pain catching him.

If we went by battling him then yes, the battle wasn't that hard considering you have 6 other pokemon with you all who, after the whole game and elite 4, should be very strong.

This is 1 on 1 remember. I also like how you continuously miss the part where I said he's confined.

Mewtwo CAN learn those moves. Thats all that applies no? If we went by your logic we could start samus at base 1 as well and only give her the starting gear she gets. That however would be unfair. Mewtwo can learn those moves and his stats are only beaten by fellow legendaries.

Moves, psychic powers, ability to do so many things with his moves and amazing stats (he was made to be the ultimate pokemon after all) make him stronger then samus IMO.

Also, even with 4 moves he could do so much.


-Bowser King

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

Yes... exactly.


You don't seem to be understanding here, his attacks are psionic abilities because that's how he uses attacks, through utilization of psionic abilities.


Therefore the ability to execute the attack demonstrates the power needed.




That's what licensing does, isn't it? However, for the preservation of intellectual property, liscencing also forces specific guidelines on the groups producing it. This has the net effect of it also being the "word of god".

Also, it's not 4kids, it's OLM Incorporated, 4kids only has the rights in the US, it did not make the anime.




Ummm, there's a reason mewtwo is in ubers competitively.


And again, 4 attacks... that's a gameplay mechanic. In fact, the fact that his actual abilities are reduced to those 4 attacks is a gameplay mechanic, psionics are amazingly versatile, and gameplay mechanics are not canonical.

Yes it does, but not to the extention you are saying Pokemon have.

If it WAS like that, then Thunder would never miss steel pokemons, spacial rend would kill my pokemons, catching Dialga would stop time and arceus would be completely invincible.



And OLM studios still has nothing to do with Gamefreak or Pokemon. They do all the writing themselves.


And what canonical instance do you have of a pokemon having more than 4 attacks on any given instance?

 

[REL38]

Yeah i know, people always lie to us =/.

And i have a question to all of you, what does mewtwo psichic(DAM, sorry for mispelling) does? I mean, it sure does damage in games, controls everything in anime, and i dont know what it does in manga, but im sure it should be at least "making-tornadoes" versatille.

Otherwise, he can just mind control samus ^^.

I never remembered Mewtwo ever controlling someone's mind, only their body through telekinesis.

 

[tocador]

I never remembered Mewtwo ever controlling someone's mind, only their body through telekinesis.

Wich part of your body control your muscles?

O yeah, your brain.

ps: I dont want to sound a55-holesih ok :B, dont take it personal.

 

[bobson]

If it WAS like that, then Thunder would never miss steel pokemons, spacial rend would kill my pokemons, catching Dialga would stop time and arceus would be completely invincible.

These are all gameplay mechanics. Reality works differently. Pokemon, when allowed their powers in reality, are often on the overpowered side.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Yes it does, but not to the extention you are saying Pokemon have.

If it WAS like that, then Thunder would never miss steel pokemons, spacial rend would kill my pokemons, catching Dialga would stop time and arceus would be completely invincible.



And OLM studios still has nothing to do with Gamefreak or Pokemon. They do all the writing themselves.


And what canonical instance do you have of a pokemon having more than 4 attacks on any given instance?

You're totally missing the point.


Gameplay mechanicshave to have some outside evidence otherwise they're just that, gameplay mechanics.

Limiting spacial rend to a specific power is just that, a gameplay mechanic, even though it's features allow it to actually kill.

The same follows for all your examples, gameplay mechanics.


The only own referenced outside gameplay mechanics is the specific names for techniques, and as shown multiple times, the naming scheme is just for trainer's convenience, pokemon themselves can act outside of that mechanism.


As for OLM, you don't understand licencing, again, OLM puts out it's own media as part of a business deal where specific restrictions were placed on it as part of an agreement to gamefreak's interest in the IP. Having such a licensing agreement gives them the ability to make canonical materials, just like gamefreak.

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

Again, he's able to use his full power. Also, the battle with mewtwo was terrible. He was a very hard to catch pokemon and took me a long time to catch him (his catch rate is really high if I remember correctly). That plus recover makes it a pain catching him.

If we went by battling him then yes, the battle wasn't that hard considering you have 6 other pokemon with you all who, after the whole game and elite 4, should be very strong.

This is 1 on 1 remember. I also like how you continuously miss the part where I said he's confined.

Mewtwo CAN learn those moves. Thats all that applies no? If we went by your logic we could start samus at base 1 as well and only give her the starting gear she gets. That however would be unfair. Mewtwo can learn those moves and his stats are only beaten by fellow legendaries.

Moves, psychic powers, ability to do so many things with his moves and amazing stats (he was made to be the ultimate pokemon after all) make him stronger then samus IMO.

Also, even with 4 moves he could do so much (plus he's only confined to those because it's a game mechanic).


-Bowser King

Exactly, a very strong Pokemon can easily defeat him, and Samus is a skilled space warrior with an extremely broken armor and, a spaceship and beams.


Mewtwo CAN learn those moves. Thats all that applies no? If we went by your logic we could start samus at base 1 as well and only give her the starting gear she gets. That however would be unfair. Mewtwo can learn those moves and his stats are only beaten by fellow legendaries.

That does not make any sense. We are both giving them what they can do in their games, I am not weakening Mewtwo, its just that Mewtwo is like that. in his games.



And even though his stats are amazing, he is far from god-like, and his attacks are all pretty weak for RPG's standards.


And again, what instance is there of a pokemon using more than 4 moves at any given time?

 

[tocador]

And again, what instance is there of a pokemon using more than 4 moves at any given time?

Ash pikachu in anime.

Iron tail, agility, headbut, thunder, thundershock, that running eletricity stuff, thunderbolt.

And it was a PIKACHU, imagine a mewtwo :O.

 

[†Slader7†]

Mewtwo can use telekinesis to hurt Samus but I highly doubt that Mewtwo can stop Samus's lasers since they are light beams and have no physical properties.

 

[§leepy God]

Ash pikachu in anime.

Iron tail, agility, headbut, thunder, thundershock, that running eletricity stuff, thunderbolt.

And it was a PIKACHU, imagine a mewtwo :O.

♪ Sadly, Pikachu in the anime currently only learns Thuder Bolt, Iron Tail, Bolt Tackle, and Quick Attack and nothing more. Any other moves would be struggle, lol. Even in the past Pokemon anime Pikachu only could learn four moves. :/ †

 

[payasofobia]

I would like to point that the anime is very ****ing ridiculous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DP24KR2nOzg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA8BnqjDB4Y&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mXruipuboA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ry3riB4jh8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VhJNGRsY-E&feature=related


I mean, using THUNDER on a FLYING pokemon AS AN ARMOR!

Or finishing of a pokemon with FALSE SWIPE.

The anime should not even be considered in this fight. The anime sucks as a reference.

 

[bobson]

they are light beams and have no physical properties.

You heard it here first, folks: light no longer has any physical properties.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Mewtwo can use telekinesis to hurt Samus but I highly doubt that Mewtwo can stop Samus's lasers since they are light beams and have no physical properties.

We discussed this already.


Energy based sources are not even immune to solid matter (light can be reflected).

Furthermore, gravity affects them, which mewtwo can create through telekinetic hyper-compression.


Edit: Also, the majority of samus' weapons aren't lasers.

 

[arch knight]

Mewtwo can use telekinesis to hurt Samus but I highly doubt that Mewtwo can stop Samus's lasers since they are light beams and have no physical properties.

Barriers/Reflect can deflect such beams as they are a form of energy and would it be possible for mewtwo to manipulate the lasers tragectory?

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

We discussed this already.


Energy based sources are not even immune to solid matter (light can be reflected).

Furthermore, gravity affects them, which mewtwo can create through telekinetic hyper-compression.

I think you missed the part where Mewtwo needs a move to do that, and the only move capable of completely negating an attack like that (aside fo rom detect) is protect, which is very limited.


And yes, like I said and sleepy one crarified, there are no instances of pokeomn canon where someone has more than 4 attacks.

 

[bobson]

Mewtwo needs a move to do that

No he doesn't.
You don't seem to be grasping the point of this thread.

 

[payasofobia]

The final match of ROUND 1, both mewtwo and samus have access to their powerful arrays of powers and gadetry seen in their CANON. as said by JOE!

???

 

[tocador]

I would like to point that the anime is very ****ing ridiculous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DP24KR2nOzg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA8BnqjDB4Y&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mXruipuboA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ry3riB4jh8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VhJNGRsY-E&feature=related


I mean, using THUNDER on a FLYING pokemon AS AN ARMOR!

Or finishing of a pokemon with FALSE SWIPE.

The anime should not even be considered in this fight. The anime sucks as a reference.

LOLOLOLOLOL, SO GOOD.

The best is: "Arbok evolving into serviper" or "If everything fails, aim for the horn :D"

 

[†Slader7†]

Well, if lasers can't get to mewtwo, Samus just lost then. Mewtwo can manipulate rocket trajectory and even the grappling beam since they are solid. Samus can't approach so she can't fight. Mewtwo just has to lift her power suit with his telekinesis and repeatedly smash it to the ground.

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

No he doesn't.
You don't seem to be grasping the point of this thread.

I know the point of this thread, realstic fights, but this one is an exception.

And canonicaly, Mewtwo can't do all that overpowered stuff.


Also, even if Mewtwo could do all that stuff, Samus still has the screw attack, which makes her invinsible and kills human sized enemies in one hit.


AND the gravity suit, which makes her completely inmune to all forms of gravity or non-physical pushing and pulling, as shown in metroid fusion.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I think you missed the part where Mewtwo needs a move to do that, and the only move capable of completely negating an attack like that (aside fo rom detect) is protect, which is very limited.


And yes, like I said and sleepy one crarified, there are no instances of pokeomn canon where someone has more than 4 attacks.

Bobson's got it right.


You just don't get it, this is a thread about finding the implications of abilities displayed canonically.


That tosses gameplay mechanics right out the window.


You're referencing to gameplay mechanics, so your argument is null.


Also, licensing is what gives companies the ability to CREATE canon, it's freedom to work within another intellectual property. You don't seem to be getting that.

I would like to point that the anime is very ****ing ridiculous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DP24KR2nOzg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA8BnqjDB4Y&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mXruipuboA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ry3riB4jh8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VhJNGRsY-E&feature=related


I mean, using THUNDER on a FLYING pokemon AS AN ARMOR!

Or finishing of a pokemon with FALSE SWIPE.

The anime should not even be considered in this fight. The anime sucks as a reference.

So?


Just because it strikes us as ridiculous doesn't mean it should be ignored, if it's part of the canon, it's stays.

 

[Bowser King]

Exactly, a very strong Pokemon can easily defeat him, and Samus is a skilled space warrior with an extremely broken armor and, a spaceship and beams.

You don't get it do you? At the peak of his game, mewtwo can destroy almost any pokemon other then the dieties in R/S and D/P. Beyond that, he's considered the ultimate pokemon. He's not an uber for no apparent reason and even then he is confined to his pokeball. When he's not, he no longer only needs to use pokemon moves.

He can levitate, control samus and do anything within his Psychic capabilities.

I'll say this for the 100th time, when applied to real life physics along with the fact that he can use ALL the powers he is capable off (the battle in cerulean cave wasn't his full power as stated by the pokeballs law).

He's free to do whatever he wants. You can't just say, a strong pokemon can easily beat him and base that of nothing. I've already said this multiple times, mewtwo is an uber. That means in competitive battling he is better then just about all other pokemon other then fellow ubers and a couple of other high ranking pokemon. Even in ubers he places well and above a lot of pokemon.

Remember, in competitive battling, he is IN HIS POKEBALL. If he has enough power to beat just about every pokemon in his pokeball, without it he can use ALL of his powers.

That does not make any sense. We are both giving them what they can do in their games, I am not weakening Mewtwo, its just that Mewtwo is like that. in his games.

Yes, and in his game, he can learn ALL those moves. How is he limited?! Just look at all those moves and tell me that he couldn't use one for any given situation. That along with psychic powers makes him a complete brute.

Also, you are weaking by saying he can only use 4 moves. That's a gameplay mechanic.

You also missed me saying he's confined in a pokeball EVERY TIME. He wouldn't be in this battle so HE CAN use his psychic powers. HE CAN use his levitating powers. HE CAN use mindcontrol and all those other things he can't in a pokeball...

And even though his stats are amazing, he is far from god-like, and his attacks are all pretty weak for RPG's standards.

He has stats that can go toe-to-toe with pokemon that control time and space. Tell me that his stats are far from god-like. He has some of the highest stats in the game and when trained right make a vicious pokemon. Maybe not exactly god-like but still very amazing.


RPG standards? This is a one on one battle. We go by samus's abilities to be able to withstand them, not how the fair against other RPGs..


-Bowser King

 

[arch knight]

I know the point of this thread, realstic fights, but this one is an exception.

And canonicaly, Mewtwo can't do all that overpowered stuff.


Also, even if Mewtwo could do all that stuff, Samus still has the screw attack, which makes her invinsible and kills human sized enemies in one hit.


AND the gravity suit, which makes her completely inmune to all forms of gravity or non-physical pushing and pulling, as shown in metroid fusion.

Considering you fight Nightmare without a gravity suit you cannot state that telekinetic powers cannot be implimented

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

Because as said:

Gameplay mechanics shows us the possible limitations the characters in the game have, and tossing them would be like tossing a lot of stuff the characters can do in a fight.


A reverse example would be RPG characters whcih constantly show us the abilities to summon giant rocks from space, freeze the air around you and shooting thunderrbolts from their hands and take multiple bullets to the face.

but then comes a cutscene where he gets defeated by a group of mooks that used a shocking device to knock him out. Or when he could blast them with a thunderbolt.

I guess we should make said RPG character ultra weak because there was the implication that he is weak to simple shocks and that he can't shoot thunderbolts because he did not use it when he could kill those mooks easily.

 

[arch knight]

possibly you could say that Random_Guy.

But who is to say that even though a character can use electricity as a power; they cannot be weakened or destroyed by electricity as well?

 

[payasofobia]

I'll say this for the 100th time, when applied to real life physics

We are not using real life for this fights, it is a canon fight. The OP even says it.

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

possibly you could say that Random_Guy.

But who is to say that even though a character can use electricity as a power; they cannot be weakened or destroyed by electricity as well?

Because he can survive meteors, bullets to the head, getting crushed by a giant and survive the end of the universe with the gameplay mechanics.

 

[tocador]

MRG, really, the pokemon dont really need a attack to use a previous attack(psychic) that he knows.

By your logic mewtwo should need a "walk-move-breath" move-set to do his moves, because by your standarts mewtwo is a mind-less pupet withought the correct move-set, witch is only true to the game, not the anime or manga.

 

[arch knight]

Because he can survive meteors, bullets to the head, getting crushed by a giant and survive the end of the universe with the gameplay mechanics.

That doesnt mean his greatest strength cant be his greatest weakness. Arent there many RPG-characters that fall because of this?

 

[Zook]

The fact that Mewtwo is a genius gives him a huge advantage.

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

No there aren't any characters that have this weakness, unless we add weaknesses added because of wearing a water armor or being a demon weak to holy attacks.

And even then they can survive quite a lot of thunderbolts and wrath of god attacks with enough defense.


And *tocador, those are learned techniques, just like a character learning how to shoot fire using magic.

 

[UncleSam]

MRG, really, the pokemon dont really need a attack to use a previous attack(psychic) that he knows.

By your logic mewtwo should need a "walk-move-breath" move-set to do his moves, because by your standarts mewtwo is a mind-less pupet withought the correct move-set, witch is only true to the game, not the anime or manga.

I'm sorry but it's 9 and my brain is shutting down, but this reminded me of http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=242 which really has nothing to do with anything, but proves what would happen if this were true
and if this is canon, mewtwo can only learn thunderbolt/blizzard/ect. by human influence (TM)

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

Exactly, I totally missed that detail my dear Uncle. Mewtwo can only learn a few of those attacks naturally.


And only 6 of those are attacks.

And only 2 of those are usefull.

 

[tocador]

I'm sorry but it's 9 and my brain is shutting down, but this reminded me of http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=242 which really has nothing to do with anything, but proves what would happen if this were true
and if this is canon, mewtwo can only learn thunderbolt/blizzard/ect. by human influence (TM)

Dam you uncle sam, how did you find my argumentation source that easily?

 

[UncleSam]

Dam you uncle sam, how did you find my argumentation source that easily?

I've been reading VGcats since day 1

 

[tocador]

I've been reading VGcats since day 1

I read it since day 0 :O.

They are just too awsome :B.

Do you know awkwardzombie? Its really cool to, and if you never head of it, give it a try :D.