TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[n88]

Actually, I checked and he said 10 feet in the OP. Personally, I think Bowser's size is a major obstacle to making a decision. He's resized for every Mario game, pretty much. I would use his most recent canon appearance, Super Mario Galaxy, in which he appears to be around 12. Hard to say though.

 

[chaoslink20]

But JOE! still said that he's 9 feet for this contest. So we're just going to keep that.

 

[Sonic on the Rocks]

Bowser accoriding to canon is about 10 ft,

He also said about 10 feet.
I think we should keep it to the most recent appearence, Super Mario Galazy, in which he appears to be around 12 feet tall.

 

[n88]

But JOE! still said that he's 9 feet for this contest. So we're just going to keep that.

Fine. I say Charizard is 2 inches tall for this contest. (Not really.) Size should be according to his appearances, not what JOE! says. Although, JOE! was pretty close, I think he's a bit taller than that.

 

[chaoslink20]

Hmm...>_>...Well...It's JOE!'s choice i geuss. He's the one who started the contest, so it's his rules, right?

 

[n88]

Yes, but JOE! was trying to be accurate to the canon. We just think he's a llittle bigger in the canon, so he should be bigger here. If JOE! made a mistake and accidentally said that Bowser was a Monkey, we would correct that, too.

 

[chaoslink20]

Fine. I'm going to stop here, but I still say charizard wins.

 

[uhmuzing]

Well, Bowser has about all the advantages canonically, meaning strength and size and armor. Charizard can fly, but he's going to have a hard time trying to get a hit on Bowser. He can spit flames from afar, but so can Bowser.

I'd say that fire isn't going to defeat either of them, which means that Charizard is going to have to approach Bowser for a chance of winning. Bowser has alot of options as to how to deal with Zard where Zard is very limited.

If its allowed, I change my vote to Bowser...

 

[chaoslink20]

Well, Bowser has about all the advantages canonically, meaning strength and size and armor. Charizard can fly, but he's going to have a hard time trying to get a hit on Bowser. He can spit flames from afar, but so can Bowser.

I'd say that fire isn't going to defeat either of them, which means that Charizard is going to have to approach Bowser for a chance of winning. Bowser has alot of options as to how to deal with Zard where Zard is very limited.

If its allowed, I change my vote to Bowser...

Grr...Now I'm starting to think Bowser would win. I don't know who to choose now

 

[uhmuzing]

Well, what were your reasons for voting Charizard?

 

[Beren Zaiga]

Note to people: To those whom are dancing around the issue, this thread is about the Brawler's in a real-life setting, NOT the game setting. If you cannot agree to or understand that, then this thread is not for you.​

Well, if considering them in a realistic setting, Charizard has the obvious advantage of flight, meaning that Charizard can gain a good low angle of attack against Bowser in the air, and do something like bomb raiding Bowser with boulders, and use his fire-breathing abilities against Bowser. He also has smarts, though limited in reality, he could form complex strategies, that to us would be simple at best, but possibly effective. Charizards tail should also be considered because it takes a good amount of muscle to make it straighten out and be used as a stabilizer in active flight. So in an air battle Charizard could possibly have Bowser on the ropes...However, realistically, Charizard, despite the advantages he does have, does not have a chance.

Bowser is 10' 0" feet tall, and thats pretty big. Charizard is about Bowser's height thanks to his long neck, buts about it in terms of height. Bowser has many advantages despite being grounded, that give him the upper-hand in this fight. Also, to call Bowser dumb isn't exactly accurate, while he may not be the brightest bulb in the room, its doubtful that he can't come up with any strategic ideas of his own. The fact they both breath fire negates that as a viable option for the both of them as well.

Bowser's shell, like any turtle-dragon hybrid, is his best tool for survival, Charizard could try dealing attacks against him while he is in his shell, but for the most part, the point would be moot, as it can be shown that Bowser's shell is quite strong, it would take probably take a large-sized object at terminal velocity to even crack it, it looks that strong, the spikes on his back also aid in defense, making the use of such a tactic null and voided, although the spike would be dulled most likely, so the use of rocks as a way to kill him by breaking his back (because a turtle/ tortoise's spine is connected to their shell), would not be too effective, and the most it would would probably do is give him a sore back for awhile.

Bowser's physical strength is also a deciding factor in the fight, which is probably more than that of Charizard's own by a country mile, Bowser's physical build suggests a great amount of this physical strength, and looks like a terminal velocity punch (By that I mean the maximum speed a punch can be thrown within physical limits) would send something as big as Charizard backwards into the air, or if hit in the correct spot, kill Charizard instantaneous by crushing of the skull, breaking of the neck, spine, or ribcage, and any other place that could prove fatal.

His claws also make matters worse for Charizard, as despite the fact Charizard would be faster at using using his, the size of Bowser's own claws would likely make a big enough gash in him to make him bleed into his stomach, or worse, completely disembowel him, which case Charizard would die in less than sixty seconds if not ninety, chalking up another disadvantage for Charizard.

Now, we all know that sometimes Big = Slow (In the animal kingdom, this is sometimes not true. A Rhinoceros for example can gallop along at around 25 miles per, not too shabby for an animal not too far under the size of a Chevorlet pick-up; and an Elephant, the largest land mammal existing on the planet right now, can stampede along at the same speed if it is frightened or upset, pushing itself to the limit to chase or flee. Bowser, while he would not run very fast at all due to his weight and inadequate legs, would probably do just fine with walking or trudging along. Charizard however has no speed advantage on the ground either, as his legs are the same as Bowser's in terms of length, making them inadequate for running as well.

Bottom line, if it came down to terra-firma-based combat, Bowser would likely be the winner, and Charizard's odds would only strengthen so much in the air.

My vote therefore goes to Bowser.

 

[chaoslink20]

Well, what were your reasons for voting Charizard?

Well...I didn't have alot of reasons but a reason could be that charizard would just fly straight into bowser before bowser could do something. Considering bowser is a fatty >.>

 

[uhmuzing]

Well, I was voting for Charizard at first because he's faster and he can fly. I figured about that much would do it for him. But I didn't think Bowser would be so big. Now I'm in the mind where Bowser can outmatch Zard's speed and mobility with pure power and size.

 

[AranOcean]

I'd say Bowser. Considering that he's survived falling in lava twice, outer space and can take baths in boiling green goop.

 

[chaoslink20]

Well, I was voting for Charizard at first because he's faster and he can fly. I figured about that much would do it for him. But I didn't think Bowser would be so big. Now I'm in the mind where Bowser can outmatch Zard's speed and mobility with pure power and size.

I've changed my mind now. I think Bowser would win >.>

 

[Wolf of Ice]

I think a hit-and-run style attack from Charizard would be effective. Does Charizard ever really have to come out of the air? Depending on the area and the Pokemon's intelligence, Charizard might not even have to crack Bowser's shell with some enormous object. In say... a forest, Charizard could knock trees into Bowser's spikes.

Bowser could either A. ignore the tree and have limited mobility or
B. leave himself open by removing it.

In a city, Charizard would have plenty of places to land Bowser couldn't access without burning it down. If Charizard hopped from building to building and threw stuff at Bowser, Bowser wolud have to take hit after hit or burn down building after building. Where could a 10 ft. turtle find cover?

In fields/plains, things look better for Bowser. Charizard has nowhere to escape to.

I think this is a very different matchup depending on the location of the fight.

 

[_clinton]

I believe I can get off due to me making the thread

the reason we dont include magic is twofold:

1) We are doing thsi deadliest warrior style (if you have ever seen the show). We asess what each character will bring to the table in a REAL-WORLD setting, and see who would win. For example, in the real world Marth doesnt have any magic defense bonuses, so his shoulder pads provide his only armor. Not very good...

In a real world setting things like psychic powers aren't real...so what was the point of asking Ness vs. Lucas and then giving a poor reason for Ness' winning? (Because again...Lucas uses more than just sticks)

2) Some characters would be rediculous with magic. Link and Ganondorf for example. Link can then acess all his items, like fairies, which will let him live until he kills his oponent, which with things like din's fire, etc, wont be too hard. And who could stand up against GANON?

Marth and Ike are pretty overpowered with his skills as well...the only things that seem to hurt them canon wise are pretty limited...They pretty much have the same things Link and Ganondorf have...
Mario happens to be a star child...along with Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Wario, Yoshi, and DK...
Ness and Lucas happen to be god powered...
ect.

 

[chaoslink20]

In a real world setting things like psychic powers aren't real...so what was the point of asking Ness vs. Lucas and then giving a poor reason for Ness' winning? (Because again...Lucas uses more than just sticks)



Marth and Ike are pretty overpowered with his skills as well...the only things that seem to hurt them canon wise are pretty limited...They pretty much have the same things Link and Ganondorf have...
Mario happens to be a star child...along with Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Wario, Yoshi, and DK...
Ness and Lucas happen to be god powered...
ect.

Stop talking about Ness vs Lucas. It's really getting annoying. We've also decided who the winner is so deal with it and move on!

 

[uhmuzing]

Well, he's got a point, but yeah, where at Bowser and Zard now.

 

[professor mgw]

Charizard would win.

 

[bibleonian]

I'm going to have to go with Charizard. While Bowser does have his shell, it can slow him down and give Charizard a chance to go after him as he's exposed. It's probably going to be fairly close though.

 

[Adler]

They're both flame resistant (for different reasons) so it'll come down to physical attacks.
Bowser has sharper claws and a thick shell.

 

[n88]

Bowser is not as slow as people seem to think he is. Also, he's not stupid either. A bit childish, but not actually stupid. He constantly comes up with new ways to take down the Mushroom Kingdom. The only flaw in his plans is that he always incorporates kidnapping Peach, which PO's Mario and hinders the plan.

 

[Sonic on the Rocks]

Bowser is portrayed much more lightheartedly in the RPG games (such as the Mario & Luigi games and the Paper Mario series), but he's pretty viscious in the 'main series' games. For example, trying to kill the universe in Super Mario Galaxy. He's not dumb either; while shown as lacking common sense, Bowser is shown to be on many occasions as highly intelligent. Many of his plans use high tech equipment and complicated machines that were created by Bowser himself.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

BOWSER:
PROS:
-Better defense
-I would say he's slightly bigger
-Also, seems to have more brute strength
-Smarter? I'm pretty sure a Pokemon is like an animal... sooo...

CONS:
-Slower
-Less Agile
-Grounded

CHARIZARD:
PROS:
-Quicker and more agile
-Flying abilities

CONS:
-Smaller, weaker.
-No defense or armor
-Not smart enough to strategize



After going through the pros and cons of each, I'd say Bowser. He is smarter, stronger, and bigger. His only disadvantage really is that he is slower, but that doesn't mean he's too slow to fight properly.

Charizard's main advantage is his ability to fly. But he's not as big, not as strong, and not as smart as Bowser would be.

The FINAL FACTOR: EXPERIENCE. Bowser has obviously had much more actual fighting experience, while Charizards live among other Pokemon in the wild, or engage in small Pokemon battles.

So, obviously, I would have to say BOWSER.

I'm going to have to go with Charizard. While Bowser does have his shell, it can slow him down and give Charizard a chance to go after him as he's exposed. It's probably going to be fairly close though.

You mentioned "Bowse's Shell", and you also mentioned "exposed". The whole point of Bowser's shell is so that he isn't exposed, it's his defense, which Charizard lacks. Plus, he isn't so slow that he can't dodge or something to avoid Charizard diving at him.

 

[JOE!]

guys, as I mentioned before, There is actually a rather big size diff between the two...

averaging bowsers height from all his appearances Ive put him at around 10 ft

charizard is 5'7"

this would be the size difference: (in the pic, every inch was equated to a foot for accuracy)

Bowser would be near 3x as big as Charizard...

 

[kirbywizard]

Hm wow Bowser is big

 

[_clinton]

And he can change his mass + the mass of others if given a chance

I still can't see how people say Bowser is slow and not agile...the guy can jump and move faster than Mario...granted...I guess he can't do it for that long (as in his weight does tire him)

But Still...I can see Bowser either blowing some homing fire at Charizard, throwing a hammer or some other object at at him...or even jumping to catch Charizard...

Also...again on Ness' reason for winning being dumb...because Lucas uses bats as well...plus they are in a way the same character as far as idea goes...

 

[JOE!]

Clinton, stop bringing that much canon into this.

We are treating them as animals here, no homing-fire, mass changing, hammer-throwing things


we use canon as a backdrop for their stats, such as weaponary and size/etc. not for how many goombas he can pull out his *** or is teh trainer tells charizard to do a barrel roll

 

[Beren Zaiga]

Charizard would win.

Give a proper argument, else I'll ask JOEZ! not to count your vote.

@ Clinton: You're making an idiot of yourself. So i have two words for ya.

"Wise Up."

Do that then come back when you feel like not derailing the topic with unrelated topics. The topics you are putting in have nothing to do with this. Also for the first and final time.

READ THE FIRST POST AND APPLY IT!!

 

[JOE!]

Actually, its not so much voting as it is a debate

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I'd say bowser. His large size is a lot of muscle. In close range, with his massive claws and incredible strength, he would completely destroy Charizard. He also has his shell. The only advantage that Charizard has is his flight, but even then, it isn't as useful as one would think. You'd have to ask yourself a few things:
-How long can Bowser stay in his shell?
-How long can Charizard fly?
-Can Bowser chuck **** at Charizard?

If the answer to the last one is yes, it's almost certain that bowser will pull up a tree and start training for the giant evil turtle olympic javelin toss; i.e. Charizard is ****ed. If not, however, it would almost certainly come down to Charizard's ability to carry and drop very heavy objects on bowser. Either way, it seems heavily biased towards Bowser due to his massive size and strength, and his shell.

 

[Sonic on the Rocks]

Is there anything for Charizard to drop?
There's shouldn't be anything where they're fighting.

Not that dropping a boulder on Bowser would do much; he had his entire castle dropped on him in Mario & Luigi 3.

 

[B!squick]

Bowser would kidnap Charizard's "lady friend" and lose in the end when Charizard destroys the bridge by touching the ax, due to Bowser's inability to turn around or not stand on bridges that can be collapsed with axes.

Winner, Charizard. Though Bowser is still sexier.


In all "seriousness" though, even if Bowser didn't have access to the near limitless number of things he's used in decades worth of games, from the Koopa Clown Car-

(my personal favorite), to being influenced by ingested minature plumbers-

http://www.joystiq.com/2009/06/07/hands-on-mario-and-luigi-bowsers-inside-story/

Bowser STILL has the necessary natural tools to deal with any flying lizard that dies when you snuff out it's tail.

 

[uhmuzing]

Oh yeah - I forgot about Charizard's tail...

If only Bowser had a water gun...

 

[Beren Zaiga]

Long arse post that I read.

He doesn't, this completely disarms Bowser of all those things, Jay. Thats what this thread is about.

Its about characters having deathmatches in a Real World setting using only their combat skils and natural abilities.

Look at my posy on the last page, and some other people's posts back there too, just so you get an idea what it is we're doing.

That is unless this is a joke post (I HOPE SO!)

 

[chaoslink20]

Oh yeah - I forgot about Charizard's tail...

If only Bowser had a water gun...

If that were to happen, it would be an instant win for bowser. Don't forget that if the fire on charizard's tail turns off, charizard will die.

 

[Lovely]

Don't forget that Bowser has his own fleet of troops and an Air Ship Armada. Too good. <3

 

[chaoslink20]

We're not going to include troops for this though.

 

[Lovely]

I know, it's just good to know what Bowser is capable of.