TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[JOE!]

You think Charizard would win is not a good arguement.

Bowsers scales on his frontside also offer protection. Plus Charizard would probably fly around shooting flaming bursts and Bowser can use his back for protection.

You can't use the argument that Bowser can't even beat a plumber since mario is the hero of the game and they have to make the game beatable.

I think its really close but forced to give an answer I'd say Bowser. That being said, if Charizard can learn Earthquake its not much of a matchup, Bowser is screwed. (I know he can learn it, just if we are counting it). Personally I don't think so because then we might have to include all of bowsers random upgrades that he had in random games. (For example in paper mario he becomes huge).

When I think Charizard I think fire guy who can fly... and has claws and teeth. I know he can learn those fighting and ground moves but its not part of him... and not in every game.

We arent giving either any special moves, just their fire, natural skills and weaponary

Bowser is a couple times bigger than Charizard, but doesnt have the fighting expertise of a Pokemon fighter nor necesarily the speed.

 

[daisho]

Yeah, Charizard is alot smaller than I expected... 5'7 200... Bowser changes but is usually like 2+ times the size of mario...

 

[JOE!]

which is why I made him an average size, by essentially finding a middle ground between all his apperances....about 9ft

 

[kirbywizard]

Would Charizard being a fire type take any effect about how much damage he gets from Bowser Fire Breath anyway >__>

Arm to Arm Combat. The Only thing Charizard has in this is his rather long neck and strong short feet. While Bowser has fantastic strength and even a strong shell to boot. His mouth has strong sharp teeth.

Now when they fight up close Bowser can go in with a quick kill to Charizards very long neck. OK now Charizard has very small arms so almost useless when fighting up close to bowser. What Charizard has going for him is his tail but that is mostly it. Now bowser has pretty decent size arms so getting his claws in shouldnt be a problem. Now Charizard has those pretty big wings yes he can fly and mabey shoot flire as he does. But couldn't bowser just go into his shell and wait for Charizard to come down? Also can't bowser easily break charizards wings.

 

[JOE!]

Im actually regretting this matchup...the more I look at it the more one-sided it is...

 

[Crazy_mofo213]

I think Charizard has the upper hand since he can learn a variety of moves.

 

[JOE!]

I think Charizard has the upper hand since he can learn a variety of moves.

We arent giving either any special moves, just their fire, natural skills and weaponary

Bowser is a couple times bigger than Charizard, but doesnt have the fighting expertise of a Pokemon fighter nor necesarily the speed.

just putting that out there

 

[Ryusuta]

Clinton and Orion, knock it off

Or you can just go ahead and bite me if you're just going to be hypercritical and rude about this. I'm pretty sure that works, too.

 

[_clinton]

It isn't dark because it's not dark. Just because it has things in common with dark ideas, that doesn't mean it's dark in and of itself.

You know...there is such a thing as hiding meaning in things...

The problem isn't that I don't understand what your saying. The problem is that I disagree with it. You didn't answer my question: at what point does the silliness completely override any dark undertones?

You know it is a light parody right? However, still...part of the reason EB may appear warm and fussy could also be because of Nintendo's censorship of the whole game...
Any concept of death, drugs, god, ect. are taken out of it...
Here...check this out...
http://earthboundcentral.com/m2eb/happy-happy-village/

Hell...it isn't the only game that is censored to hell and back under NoA's eye...ever play Breath of Fire 2?

Strictly speaking, a lot of children's fairy tales and nursery rhymes have very dark undertones. That doesn't make them dark in and of themselves.

I'm fairly certain things like Ring Around the Rosie are very dark in the idea of what it is talking about...

Because there was always an exit, it was just locked. If you're locked in a basement, that doesn't mean you're buried alive. There's a HUGE difference.

Please look at what the type of door is again...it clearly is meant to be a tomb in a way...
Hell...plenty of graves have been like that...they were pretty much sealed in there...

It was very obvious that Porky (not Pokey, that was a mistranslation) was just being a sycophant and Ness never bought into it.

According to Mother 3...Pokey's reasoning behind what he does has a certain amount of things to do with Ness...but whatever (He brings up many things for what he does of course)

Also please check the site I gave you...at the happy happy part with Pokey...

They can't be immortal if they can be killed.

They were only able to be killed because of their power source being finally used...

I stand firm on this. Neither Moonside nor Magicant had as much serious, down-to-earth fear and distortion as Tanetane. Tanetane had more subtext for all four of the characters, too.

When Ness and Jeff entered the source of the power...the thing made a full effort to stop them...Moonside was slowly destroying them...and the only reason they were able to handle it was because of their strong minds (or at least Ness'...Jeff isn't psychic). May I remind you that this same rep of Giygas' power dragged two places into total chaos almost (Fourside's was different)...

Let me put it simply: Ness lost NOTHING in the end. He still had his family, his friends, and everything near to him. His life was back to normal when the dust settled and all was said and done.

Lucas lost his mother, his brother, and his entire planet - as it stood - by the end of his adventure.

Except Lucas was able to make whatever he wanted after it...sort of like Ness could (Their main powers are "god" level powers)

If anything...I could see Lucas just doing everything all over to where it started...because that is sort of what Ness tries to do after the game (or at least that is what Paula says she is going to do...be "normal" again)

Or you can just go ahead and bite me if you're just going to be hypercritical and rude about this. I'm pretty sure that works, too.

Well...at least we agree on this as well ^_^

Also the reason for Ness winning is BS...Lucas uses bats as well...

Also anyone who thinks that Fire/Flying Dragon could beat the king of the Koopas should look into what Bowser can do again...

List of things Bowser has...just off the top of my head
An army of troops...
More than just a few dungeons/forts...
Access to various machines

List of skills Bowser has...off the top of my head...
Super strength...duh...
Super speed and agility...the fact that he can jump several feet higher than Mario...as well as out run him if he wants as well is on this list...
Fire Breath...but he can do so much with it...
Magic...he is very powerful in the Dark Magics...and can do things like change the size of things/himself...or teleport even...

He is also trained in how to use various weapons (Hammers/chomps for example)

 

[Crazy_mofo213]

just putting that out there

Whoops, mybad. Completely missed that post.

Well I say Bowser because he's pretty strong.

 

[JOE!]

Or you can just go ahead and bite me if you're just going to be hypercritical and rude about this. I'm pretty sure that works, too.

i didnt mean to be like that, its just that you two are going far off topic

 

[_clinton]

i didnt mean to be like that, its just that you two are going far off topic

Well...you wanted us to talk about what happens in their games canon right?

Still...How on earth can you let Ness win just because he has a bat? Lucas has a bat as well as other things...

Plus I already talked about how a Ness vs. Lucas fight wouldn't make much sense seeing as to how they are in a spiritual sense...the same (as in how the Link's are the same in a way)

 

[Nibbles 2]

Charizard. Although they're both big brutes and can breath fire, and Bowser has his minions, Charizard can fly, which I feel wins right there.

 

[n88]

Charizard can fly, but Bowser can jump pretty **** high. Plus, Bowser has the Koopa Kruiser. Charizard is at a disadvantage in the air, not the other way around.

 

[_clinton]

Charizard. Although they're both big brutes and can breath fire, and Bowser has his minions, Charizard can fly, which I feel wins right there.

Adding on to the thing the other guy talked about...Bowser can also conjure up storms...but whatever

 

[gocubs44123]

Bowser probably would win, although dumb he is super strong and powerful whereas Charizard is a stupid pokemon who is controlled by Ash the r tard. My vote is for Bowser!

 

[Snowstalker]

Bowser, easily.

King Bowser is about four times the weight of Char, and has a spiked shell, claws that can inject poison (PM), and can throw infinite hammers (SMB). Also, Bowser is actually somewhat fast in some games, like SM64.

 

[kingcobra9]

actually charizard hardly ever listened to ash until later on he kicked but without ash if he did a seismic toss on bowser it would be over besides he can fly and he is almost as strong as bowser it wouldn't sway teh match that much if charizard is smart he won't go near bowser because of the spiky shell unless there is a huge opening to go pick up bowser and start tossing him around....charizard should camp throwing hyper beams Fire blasts(it effects bowser since mario does it), and earthquakes. charizard can flap off bowsers fire and it really wouldn't hurt him anyway. the winner is and the loser is

 

[n88]

Bowser is way bigger than Charizard. Charizard's ability to fly is negated by Bowser's Koopa Kruiser, army of Parakoopas, and ability to summon storms. So air advantage goes to BBowser. On the grounnd, Bowser is bigger and stronger, not to mention that he has superior armor. Fire dies affect Bowser, but it takes a lot of fire, and Bowser would not give Charizard that much time. Bowser is full of win.

 

[JOE!]

^

no minions, no magic

If you wanna debate them according to their in-game abilities, go to the character debate thread

This thread is trying to be AS REALISTIC as possible, that means no koopa troopa, no 200lb dragon tossing a 3500lb turtlesaurus no problem, and no hyper beam.

It has been said taht all they get is their PHYSICAL ATRIBUTES, and fire breath, as well as charizard being able to fly

 

[Fire!]

Bowser survived the Universe being destroyed in Super Mario Galaxy.

Nuff said.

 

[Uffe]

Bowser is pretty much made for defense. What I mean is is that he has a large shell overing most of his backside. He's also slow but he's got a lot of strength. Charizard on the other hand has a number of abilities. But it all really depends on what abilities Charizard has at that point.

Fortunately for Charizard, Bowser's fire breath isn't really going to do much harm since Charizard is a fire type. Between the two, Bowser is slow but really strong as where Charizard is quick and I guess has more mobility since nothing is really putting weight on him. I'm not really sure who'd win it, but I'm leaning towards Charizard since he's got plenty more options than Bowser.

 

[Sonic on the Rocks]

Do any of you know how freaking big Bowser is in Super Mario Sunshine?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrnNMg8advk
Bowser used Stomp!
It's a 1-hit KO!

 

[Moozle]

I would first say Charizard because he has a legion of adorable friends, but thinking back, Bowser is the king of survival. Nothing kills him, literally, so he will never be beaten (except by the love of princess Peach).

 

[Sieguest]

I'm leaning towards Charizard...despite bowser's immense strength and stamina...bowser is a HUGE target....charizard could safely strike from the air.. and wait for a mistake from bowser...then swoop in for the advantage....charizard could also use those immense wings of its to create a whirlwind to limit bowser even more on an approach...bowser makes a false move...good bye koopa...

the one thing bowser has that can turn the tide is maybe his endurance...Iunno...Bowser has that hard shell and if he can take a beating for long enough...he may tucker out poor Charizard...then Bowser just claims his victory.

All in all...I'm leaning towards the giant orange lizard with a flaming tail....GO CHARIZARD!!!

 

[Snowstalker]

Bowser can cause earthquakes, breathe various types of fire, throw infinite hammers, inject venom through his claws, create shockwaves from pounding the ground, spin in his shell, jump really high, run surprisingly fast (in some games), roll into a giant ball, and do epic punches. And who says Bowser can't camp? All he has to do is spit fireballs and throw hammers.

 

[Sonic on the Rocks]

And let's not forget that Bowser is very, very big in Super Mario Sunshine. Several times taller than Peach or Mario.
And really, Bowser is still alive AS A SKELETON in New Super Mario Bros. Dry Bowser ftw.

 

[kirbywizard]

Hm I wonder if Bowser can just retreat into his shell when Charizard throws fire from the sky. Bowser would win if Charizard has to get up close. Charizard may be quiker but that is kinda useless when you have to fight someone as heavily armed as bowser. Charizard also has three main body parts that are vunerable to bowser grabs and attacks! Neck, tail and worst of all his wings

 

[DemonFart]

I'm gonna say Charizard wins this because I'm biased like that.

He has wings and looks cooler then bowser.

Instant ko.

 

[JOE!]

we are basing off realistic scenarios. no hammers, no earthquakes.

Bowser is 9-10ish foot and in the area of 4000 lbs, Charizard is 5'7" and 200lbs

their weapons are their physical attributes, fire breath, and natural weaponary.


why is everyone not paying attention to the realism anymore?

 

[_clinton]

^

no minions, no magic

If you wanna debate them according to their in-game abilities, go to the character debate thread

This thread is trying to be AS REALISTIC as possible, that means no koopa troopa, no 200lb dragon tossing a 3500lb turtlesaurus no problem, and no hyper beam.

It has been said taht all they get is their PHYSICAL ATRIBUTES, and fire breath, as well as charizard being able to fly

Where do you get off on this no magic rule? Bowser is a powerful wizard in the dark arts as far as canon strength goes...

And looking at things like the pokedex...Charizard can melt boulders...but Bowser keeps coming back from the dead...

I'm ok with no minions of course...

And let's not forget that Bowser is very, very big in Super Mario Sunshine. Several times taller than Peach or Mario.
And really, Bowser is still alive AS A SKELETON in New Super Mario Bros. Dry Bowser ftw.

Again...all you have to say is Bowser is a champ at the dark arts...

 

[JOE!]

Where do you get off on this no magic rule?

I believe I can get off due to me making the thread

the reason we dont include magic is twofold:

1) We are doing thsi deadliest warrior style (if you have ever seen the show). We asess what each character will bring to the table in a REAL-WORLD setting, and see who would win. For example, in the real world Marth doesnt have any magic defense bonuses, so his shoulder pads provide his only armor. Not very good...

2) Some characters would be rediculous with magic. Link and Ganondorf for example. Link can then acess all his items, like fairies, which will let him live until he kills his oponent, which with things like din's fire, etc, wont be too hard. And who could stand up against GANON?


With that in mind, try to think of this fight as if they were two animals going at it (with firebreath....). What will prevail? The flyer or the heavt ground animal?

 

[Fire!]

why is everyone not paying attention to the realism anymore?

We're being asked to compare a Pokemon with a Mutated turtle. I'm pretty sure we don't have to pay that much attention to realism.

Let's have a little fun with it. There is no need to overreact f we skew off topic for a bit.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Guys, it was established in the OP, the OP is your bible for discussing a topic, because it establishes the topic , basically this is because it allows discussions on any topic.


That said, sometimes the OP can ask a stupid question (perfect example, the "which character requires the most mental skill", it basically asked what character requires the most mental skill to win (and it included mindgames and tech skills).

This was a stupid question because. by definition lower tier characters require better mindgames to win then higher tiered ones in order to make up for their skill gap (granted, there were some bumps for tech-heavy chars like ICs). This basically meant that it was almost exactly the tier list reversed. Stupid question, no?


So yea, restrict your discussions to their physical abilities, remove supernatural elements.

 

[JOE!]

JOE!'s LINK-UP SPACE

MYM-5:

Spiderman


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Rival Trainer (extras)

VELOCI-GODDAM-RAPTORS

Mewtwo


MYM-7:

Samus Remix


MYM-8:


Spartan Warrior

Forretress

Octillery

Salamence



​

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Ok, I'm thinking that as long as Charizard is being controled by the trainer, it would be like either charizard flys away and shoots fireballs at Bowser (which would hurt him, it worked for mario) which means that charizard wins or bowser beats charizard in close combat, but then, hold on,
the Trainer uses Max Revive!

Charizard wins, hands down.

 

[chaoslink20]

I go for charizard. He could just fly straight into bowser and dodge all of bowser's moves XD

 

[n88]

This is one-sided, even minus Koopa legions. Bowser is way too big for Charizard, especially in his Sunshine incarnation. People say that this makes him a huge target. It also means he only has to hit Charizard once. Maybe twice. Despite Charizard's ability to fly, Bowser is faster, as well as stronger and smarter. Charizard gets ripped apart.

 

[Sonic on the Rocks]

Bowser also has a better defense, his shell.
Charizard will get shreded by Bowser's claws, spikes, and teeth.

 

[chaoslink20]

JOE! said Bowser is 9 ft. Mind keeping the same size rather than choosing his size from mario sunshine?