TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[JOE!]

the ninja had 5 weapons to the spartan's 3, his 4th was his shield which primarily wasnt a "weapon", although it was ironically better than like any weapon of each combatant.

That, and how many weapons would the ninja honestly be carrying around at a given instance? They limit the weapons for time (testing shots), and display of the warrior. Sure a ninja used a bow, but so did everyone and their mom, so the ninja star was chosen to rep the "ninja" better.


but fir the moment I agree that without his magic, Kratos gets screwed by his own arsenal vs Ryu

 

[adumbrodeus]

the ninja had 5 weapons to the spartan's 3, his 4th was his shield which primarily wasnt a "weapon", although it was ironically better than like any weapon of each combatant.

That, and how many weapons would the ninja honestly be carrying around at a given instance? They limit the weapons for time (testing shots), and display of the warrior. Sure a ninja used a bow, but so did everyone and their mom, so the ninja star was chosen to rep the "ninja" better.


but fir the moment I agree that without his magic, Kratos gets screwed by his own arsenal vs Ryu

Yeah, I just remembered that ninja got an extra weapon, still, a ninja would carry a number of different small easily concealable weapons beyond that.


And the fact that it was chosen because it was iconic doesn't excuse the fact that a ninja equipped like that (in other words, in stealth gear as opposed to disguise) would be carrying a bow. Everybody and their mom carries a bow because they're effective.


Yes, I know that they limit it for time, but that introduces more inaccuracies.


Not even deadliest weapon if you don't account for the fighter's most important weapons.



Oh, and shields are amazing weapons, never say that they're not a weapon.

 

[RWB]

Forgot that Ryu is a current day ninja.

His bow can pinpoint Kratos from about a 100 meters and hit accurately. Red point aim, water pass, and enough force to penetrate steel with laughable ease. And with the spread point of the arrow, it slashes through Kratos like a knife through hot butter.

He doesn't even need to hit Kratos body, a hit to the leg incapacitates Kratos. And any hit will throw Kratos of his feet, allowing time to aim another arrow.

Kratos won't get close to Ryu, and assuming Ryu is allowed his plate armor, none of his weapons will do much either.


Kratos loses 10 out of 10 fights.

 

[Nova9000]

F=MA
What exactly is the reason for disregarding the boomerang? All I've seen anyone do is just say:

"It's silly" or
"It'll only leave a bruise" without any such a thing as why or wherefore.

I think you're taking this out of context. If DK had a boomerang, it would be taken into heavy consideration. But Tink has so many other options, so the boomerang isn't always the best one in every situation. Well, at least that's my point on the boomerang.

This exactly proves my above assertion. You haven't said anything definitive as to why the boomerang is sub-par in a sense.

You make it seem as if throwing a boomerang at considerable speed is an impossibility.

At the least thinkable speed. I would guess about 40 mph with a mass of 15kg

You have 600N of force. consider air drag and lower the mph to 30 by time of contact.

450N. Get a hit in a critical area, I think that will do more than just leave a bruise.

Bolded for assumptions made. I never made it seem that way, at least not intentionally. However I didn't make it clear that I dismissed the boomerang because of other options available. Maybe Tink's foe is too agile, in which case the boomerang is his best option. But those circumstances wouldn't occur with Pit. Again, I'm not knocking the boomerang, but only stating that it gets overlooked by other options.

Because a bow has more power? Even though I could incapacitate you with either weapon. I'd have to kill you after I knocked you out with the slingshot but that wouldn't be much effort. Even though the bow would kill you faster, if I miss I've left myself open. If I miss with a slingshot, loading another stone is as easy as one, two, three, and then I have you at bay again.

This is true, but again taken out of context. I'm not dismissing anything that you're saying because this is true, but the circumstances call for whatever is the most efficient. Case in point; there was a reason in TP the slingshot wasn't used in most of Link's conquest. You could, but the arrow got the job done a lot easier. Of course, that's a game but it's to prove a point. Again, everything you said was right, but it's what kills the easiest that matters in most situations.

Spoiler

Post Moar Lurk Less

@ MU:
Ryu has this hands down. Kratos has no armor to protect himself and no projectile to use while Ryu has enough at his disposal to dispose of Kratos from a distance. This is like Link v. Ganon in a sense.

 

[JOE!]

oooook, ill give this a little while then we can move onto the next MU

(just got back from the doctor's...need time to rest from a concussion i got 2 weeks ago in a car crash @_@ )

 

[Nova9000]

Oh snaps....you ok JOE!?

 

[JOE!]

eh, need 2 days to recover/rest/w/e

making pics for the OP in the meantime...

 

[REL38]

This MU ended up being pretty one sided

 

[JOE!]

This MU ended up being pretty one sided

eh, it happens

now, want me to just post the next MU now, or wait till I find weapons BEFORE posting?

 

[REL38]

Wait, since a basic list would be good to go off of until others bring up more/better one's

 

[JOE!]

Wait, since a basic list would be good to go off of until others bring up more/better one's

Done and Done

check the OP, each have long range, mid range, short range and melee

 

[Sieguest]

I think you're taking this out of context. If DK had a boomerang, it would be taken into heavy consideration. But Tink has so many other options, so the boomerang isn't always the best one in every situation. Well, at least that's my point on the boomerang.

Out of context? No, not when seeing posts like these:

In have very mixed feeling about Season 2


@Marthage

A boomerang is altogether a one use (if it hits) weapon that won't cause much else other than a bruise, at best

Good range, but not a very great weapon

Tink wins vs pit due to what allways wins: more effectivness at different ranges.

the boomerang is kinda silly though, why the hell would he use it is he has a bow?

I'd hardly call it out of context whenever a post pretty much says

Bow>Boomerang forever.

Bolded for assumptions made. I never made it seem that way, at least not intentionally. However I didn't make it clear that I dismissed the boomerang because of other options available. Maybe Tink's foe is too agile, in which case the boomerang is his best option. But those circumstances wouldn't occur with Pit. Again, I'm not knocking the boomerang, but only stating that it gets overlooked by other options.

Don't see how a bow does much better against pit compared to the boomerang since he's a carrying a plenty usable shield.

This is true, but again taken out of context. I'm not dismissing anything that you're saying because this is true, but the circumstances call for whatever is the most efficient. Case in point; there was a reason in TP the slingshot wasn't used in most of Link's conquest. You could, but the arrow got the job done a lot easier. Of course, that's a game but it's to prove a point. Again, everything you said was right, but it's what kills the easiest that matters in most situations.

I'd have to disagree with the part I've made red.
In the hands of a skilled user, both X and Y may incapacitate an opponent.
X can kill if it hits a critical spot.
Y at best can incapacitate.

X takes longer to load than Y. If one misses when using projectile X, then the opponent can rush them before another projectile can be used.
Y can be loaded quickly and used. Y is reusable as it returns the one who launched the projectile.

I admit that you can use the bow at the range where it out performs the boomerang, screw that shot up and using the bow again I think would be a bad idea, then you have the boomerang would be the better choice than the bow. But as I've pointed out above, people have basically said. "The boomerang is trash compared to the bow lolololololol" and just left it.

 

[UncleSam]

ahem.
Assassination is an art of killing. Once Altaïr gets up close he wins. with all those hidden weapons a palm to the face = death by stiletto.
it's a trigger system so it'll stab right into the skull for a kill.
btw he essentially has 2 melee weapons but w/e http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stiletto

 

[Nova9000]

Wait what?
Both sides of Sambrodeus show up in the same day? Maybe HOLO or Xeph return as well....

@ Guest:
All those points are true. But I know how well a boomerang kills as well.
And comparing the bow to the slingshot is also situation dependant, as each shines in a specific predicament.

@ MU:
IDK yet...I'll return with my point eventually...

@ JOE!:
OP looks great man...organized and archived as well...GYEZ

 

[UncleSam]

I wonder who I'll side with for this Season.

 

[RWB]

This seems a bit more even...

The assassin has plate armor available, but not one that covers the whole body. No helmet.

The prince also has metal armor that doesn't cover the head.


The scimitar has massively superior damage infliction(the bigger curve on a sword, the more damage one slash can do, and serrated blades do even more damage), but the falchion has a better handguard, one with a lock on it(unless only the venetian one has it, Icould just find a pic of that one).

The lock is crucial here, and makes the falchion slightly superior.

The falchion can easily lock the scimitar and disarm the prince, but it can't take down the prince quick unless it hits a vital spot, while even a bad hit with the scimtar will cause severe bleeding and debiliating pain.



The dagger whip is highly dangerous but unwieldy. Probably not a good choice.


The stiletto is superior to the dagger, both are used for quick parries and stabs, and not only are straight blades better for stabbing than curved blades, it also has a superior guard.



The chakram is easier to score a debilitating hit with than a knife, but the poison evens it out.

The hidden dagger is relatively useless here.



Neither guy is gonna beat the other one badly, but I'd say Ezio has the advantage in equipment, though I believe the Prince is more agile.

I'd say ridiculously even, with a slight edge to the assassin.

 

[UncleSam]

The hidden dagger is relatively useless here.

I'm hurt.
The chakram is one use, which is not what you want to hear when you think of "long range" unless teh Prince actually wants to run over and get it again which means he gets assassinated.
mid range, Altaïr can get up in the Princes face by duel wielding the Stiletto and Hidden dagger and can aim for the many many points on the Princes body and score hits.

It was used to finish off a fallen or severely wounded heavily armored opponent. The pointed, stout blade could easily pass through most mail or find its way through gaps in a knight's plate armor.

armor is useless here IMO, none of Altaïr's weapons are meant for cutting anyway, unlike the Prince.
Hidden blade can score head kills. And will be scoring the majority of kills because of the fact that head kills are the quickest and most efficient way of doing things for an assassin.

 

[JOE!]

Chakram can be carried a few at a time...he could have like 3 lets say easily.

on top of that, he also has the Dagger tail which outranges Altaire/Ezio's arsenal outside the throwing knives

 

[UncleSam]

That whip is very unreliable, it's too heavy to crack like a normal whip, you sort of just swing it around.

also explain how you'd exactly carry around a weapon like that, there's no place to keep it on your person unless you want it cutting you.
the dagger of time is just a normal machete in RL and is outclassed by somebody who actually has better experience in knife fighting and has concealed weapon which will deal death in one hit anyway.

 

[JOE!]

who says the prince is inexperienced at knife fighting?

and I'd imagine the whip would act like a Rajput's coiled sword

 

[UncleSam]

yeah but it's three knives against one.

were talking about cutting vs. stabbing.
Chakram cuts
Skrimitr cuts
whip cuts
dagger does both

throwing knives stab
Falchion does both
stiletto specializes in stabbing
and so does the concealed weapon.

cuts bleed out while stabs are instant.

EDIT: found something interesting I'm talking about the main character from the first one, and you're using the main from AC2 no?
well Eizo has two hidden blades instead of Altair's 1.
have fun with that.

 

[JOE!]

a stab has to be precise though, whereas a cut means massive damage no matter waht usually.

a cut across the belly = guts everywhere, cut on the arm = muscles severed, etc

 

[Sieguest]

@ Guest:
All those points are true. But I know how well a boomerang kills as well.
And comparing the bow to the slingshot is also situation dependant, as each shines in a specific predicament.

I don't doubt that you know how well a boomerang damages the opponent.

The part in red is exactly the point I'm trying to make.
The "Y" variable in my previous post was aimed more towards that of a boomerang.

I agree that the bow is more powerful than the boomerang, but that it is overall more effective at all times is completely false. That is basically what I'm getting at.

 

[RWB]

I'm hurt.

Sorry, misunderstood what kind of dagger it was. Thought it was one of those you hid strapped to your leg or such.

This one is basically an elongated, sharp fist.

The chakram is one use, which is not what you want to hear when you think of "long range" unless teh Prince actually wants to run over and get it again which means he gets assassinated.

I assumed he had several.

mid range, Altaïr can get up in the Princes face by duel wielding the Stiletto and Hidden dagger and can aim for the many many points on the Princes body and score hits.

Scimitar easily outclass both at mid range.

Ezio wants the falchion for it's sword lock capbilities. A quick lock will have the prince reaching for his dagger, at which point the hidden dagger kills him since it can be used like a more lethal punch.

armor is useless here IMO, none of Altaïr's weapons are meant for cutting anyway, unlike the Prince.

Yup. Had it been full body armor it would have mattered, but both are much to exposed.

a stab has to be precise though, whereas a cut means massive damage no matter waht usually.

a cut across the belly = guts everywhere, cut on the arm = muscles severed, etc

You forget that stabs are harder to parry, and you underestimate the damage and pain of a stab.

Stab through the belly? likely gonna puncture vital organs(while cuts do more superficial damage).
Stab through the arm? Will likely strike all the way in close the bone, which will hit so many nerves for pain it's disgusting. AND it severs muscles.

Stabs are extremely debiliting, and a single successful stab does much larger damage than a cut except for some rare cases.

Good info about this: http://martial.jessecrouch.com/2009/04/stab-vs-slash-when-to-use-both.html



And you forget that all of Ezio's weapon can both cut and stab effectively anyway.




Again, the prince is more agile, the assassin better equipped.

 

[ElPanandero]

I'm confused on why the Hidden blades are so underrated. Anything hat is an extension of the arm (Punching weapons) are the most natural fit to take into combat as they are the most natural weapon. If he can get inside the whip sword, he can get in several stabs with the hidden blades, or a quick puncture to anywhere vital...remember he has been trained in the ways of assassination, he knows how to one hit one kill. On top of that he does have two like Guest said.

 

[RWB]

I just said that I mistook the kind of hidden blade.


"Elongated Fists" as I like to call them are extremely quick and letal.


EDIT: What's the next match-up? I'd like to do some research about the characters equipment...

 

[JOE!]

well, if we're ready for the next one?

That is if we agree on Altaire > The Prince

 

[Nova9000]

That's two matches in two days...wow...
And it seems that the Prince fails. In fact, there can only be one true Prince...

 

[JOE!]

ok, Assassin takes match 2

PEELS vs ADRENALINE

 

[UncleSam]

IDK never was interested in L4D
I don't get the concept of "zombie apocalypse"
though adrenaline is better

 

[Smooth Criminal]

It would be a tie!

They're all random humans. With guns.

Smooth Criminal

 

[REL38]

The guys on the right

Their morphine or w/e is better than pain reliever pills

 

[JOE!]

The guys on the right

Their morphine or w/e is better than pain reliever pills

did you at least see the weapons? >.>

 

[UncleSam]

did you at least see the weapons? >.>

you should really think about putting the weapons in the post along with the MU and not just the OP
just looked: L4D2 my vote doesn't change.
remember SWAT vs GSC9 or whatever they were called?
yeah SWAT is L4D2

I think you purposely gave L4D2 better weapons.
I mean you GAVE THEM THE MAGNUM
http://www.cracked.com/funny-4319-magnum/

 

[JOE!]

hey, not my fault LfD 2 has better unique weapons >.>

 

[UncleSam]

hey, not my fault LfD 2 has better unique weapons >.>

maybe because it's the sequel?

 

[ElPanandero]

Yea this is a fairly pointless match-up, too similar...though I believe L4D1's Old dude was a war veteran, making him slightly more experienced in fighting...if that makes a difference...

Also, Molotov > Pipe Bomb.

 

[UncleSam]

Also, Molotov > Pipe Bomb.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pipe_bomb

The containment provided by the pipe means that simple low explosives can be used to produce a relatively large explosion, and the fragmentation of the pipe itself creates potentially lethal shrapnel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov_cocktail

They are primarily intended to set targets ablaze rather than instantly destroy them.

 

[Xiahou Dun]

Bill would kill them all. Even the Children.

 

[RWB]

The weapons definitely favor L4D2.


Next MU? We seem pretty united on this one.