TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[JOE!]

...Regular link is much faster and stronger, has better weapons and not to mention he can peg toon link with an arrow between the eyes before toon link can even think about engaging his better version in combat

TL;DR: Kid vs Adult: Kid gets whupped

 

[REL38]

...Regular link is much faster and stronger, has better weapons and not to mention he can peg toon link with an arrow between the eyes before toon link can even think about engaging his better version in combat

TL;DR: Kid vs Adult: Kid gets whupped

Not in Brawl


btw Squirtle's shell is round
He shifts his weight to get back on all fours

Heck, standing on two legs is pointless

I'd call it more of a draw anyways

 

[JOE!]

we decided it was a tie a while back Rel XD

 

[REL38]

we decided it was a tie a while back Rel XD

The thread's not as clear as it used to be
D:

 

[UncleSam]

...Regular link is much faster and stronger, has better weapons and not to mention he can peg toon link with an arrow between the eyes before toon link can even think about engaging his better version in combat

TL;DR: Kid vs Adult: Kid gets whupped

actually TL is faster and smaller making him a harder target. also TL's weapons are lighter and wouldn't have to worry about all that armor.
plus I've explained this you can't pick up a bow and arrow and just use it that well.

 

[REL38]

No he's not

 

[JOE!]

actually TL is faster and smaller making him a harder target. also TL's weapons are lighter and wouldn't have to worry about all that armor.
plus I've explained this you can't pick up a bow and arrow and just use it that well.

didnt we assume training/practice throughout his epic adventures?

anywho, Big Link would be FASTER, while the smaller Toon Link may be more AGILE. There is a difference, and the bigger guys are allways FASTER than little guys due to reach/muscle mass.

 

[REL38]

I'm so disappointed in Payas for never mentioning Marth having a shield

 

[UncleSam]

didnt we assume training/practice throughout his epic adventures?

I never agreed to that >_>

anywho, Big Link would be FASTER, while the smaller Toon Link may be more AGILE. There is a difference, and the bigger guys are allways FASTER than little guys due to reach/muscle mass.

you're still having to hit a smaller target. plus you said agile:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agility
yuo seem to focus on foot speed and define it as better, you clearly know the difference, so why side with running speed?
it's like trying to hit a gnome in WoW (lol I have wow friends who told me this) it makes you want to rage because they are really hard to target.

EDIT: my post count is one second of a degree.

 

[JOE!]

not just footspeed:

almost all his muscles will be faster due to them being bigger/more powerful, thus all his actions can and will be faster than Tink's

EDIT @ Training:

what i meant was actually specific to the "Link" family, as they get their equipment, then use it throughout their adventures.

Hell, if he has trouble he could just use the hawkeye...or you know, we could go by his great accuracy in TP.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

it's like trying to hit a gnome in WoW (lol I have wow friends who told me this) it makes you want to rage because they are really hard to target.

>_>

They obviously haven't heard of a "tab" key. They need to L2play.

As far as this debate goes...

My nod goes to Adult Link for all the same reasons that Joe listed.

Smooth Criminal

 

[REL38]

Not like Toon Link's size and "agility" measures up in the long run of this match

@JOE

You forgot to mention Link's Crossbow Training

 

[JOE!]

True, but could he realistically dodge an arrow from someone who is used to hitting faster (flying/horseback) and smaller (several items/etc) targets?

that seems to be the "agility" defense here >.>

 

[JOE!]

double post but W/E

I think Tlink sweeps the mother bois and peach due to better weapons alone.

DK im not sure of, but Bombs and Arrows may win it as allways

Olimar im not sure of

And Zard wins vs ICs due to fire?

 

[Nova9000]

double post but W/E

I think Tlink sweeps the mother bois and peach due to better weapons alone.

DK dies because of Bombs and Arrows always

Olimar im sure loses

And Zard wins vs ICs due to fire?

Fixed.

And about Pit v. Tink?

 

[JOE!]

Pit vs TInk is gonna be very interesting...

Tink isnt as good at archery as regular link...

and Pit's arrows blow


....even?

 

[Nova9000]

Idk. both have shields as well...and Link did beat Pit already...that 1 IDK about...but I'll update everything tonight. If we get this last one taken care of, we could start the new season tomorrow.

 

[JOE!]

Indeed we could

(thankfully i have the 1st 3-4 Mus allready planned >.>)

 

[UncleSam]

Tink vs. Pit
TL has better weapons overall.

daww my post count is no longer a second of a degree.

 

[Nova9000]

Lol US.

This is true, but pit's arrows > TLs arsenal. Only thing that can match it would be Tink's arrows.

 

[JOE!]

ok, lets break it down then:

at range: tink or pit adv?

mid-range: tink / pit

close: tink / pit

 

[Nova9000]

At close range TL wins. mid range pit's arrows can overwhelm him but it can also go both ways. And Long range is an arrow fight. When we compared him to Link, Link had a stronger bow but Pit had a quicker release. Hence Pit having a rapid fire type bow. But we never went into detail to discuss Tink's bow. I want to say Pit's bow is faster but Tinks is stronger, but neither by that big of a margin. But this is just my opinion.

 

[JOE!]

Tink wouldnt have the power behind his bow like link does...

that and his shield is less effective than Pit's at hiding from arrows

 

[Nova9000]

That may be true but how effective is Pit's bow?

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a285/IIC3/pit1sz0.jpg

And now that I think about it, they may now have the capabilities to even shoot that far since his bow is a rapid fire design. If that is the case then Tink probably pulls through.

 

[REL38]

Pit's shield > Arrows

Santa's Elf has to approach where he might be able to pull a bomb off

 

[Diddy Kong]

Why does DK lose to Mario & Luigi? Imo, big giant musclar ape >> plumbers with hammers they can't really weild.

Vs Roy and Marth should also be a draw. Maybe a win even vs Marth.

 

[RWB]

With the realistic basis, Toon Link loses his best weapon- durability.


And please don't whine about this being a long post; it needs to be this long to have all the facts in it.



Bows are being overestimated here. There's a reason you used squads/surprise shooting in war. hitting a moving target with a bow of that time was effing hard. Also, the boomerang is being neglected here, but I'll put the argument about the end of this post.



How far is it between the characters?

50-100 meters? Less?

50+ means both have good chances of avoiding an arrow(barely). At 100+, neither is hitting the other- they likely won't even get the arrows that far.


In fact, I concluded both are disadvantaged...

Pit's bow is tiny(based on his own games), and realistically, wouldn't shoot 35 meters(and that's when we're going for sheer reach, not aim). Todays compound bows of that small size can't effectively be used beyond 40 meters, and they are a ridiculous amount superior in power.

The Brawl bow is impossible in itself- no string and made of rigid metal. Anyway, even if possible to use it would likely not be usable beyond 50 yards, it's too short.

Tink's bow is equal larger.

WW Bow is about a meter in height. Would go slightly beyond 50 yards.
Brawl version bow is about 1.20 m(equal to Tink's height, as confirmed by debug mode WW) and can perhaps go up to 70 yards.

But Tink's too weak to shoot the full distance.

Neither is using bows on par with today's compound bows.


Tink wins this matchup by closing in the distance and slashing Pit, unless Pit gets a ridiculously lucky shot in.

Boomerang:

Can be thrown at least 40 yards with an accurate ellips movement. Depending on the 'rang, as far as 200 meters.

With Tink's realistic strength, about 50 yards seems likely.

Pit does not wanna get hit.

 

[JOE!]

I stopped reading after you said bows are over-rated


seriously, WOW

seriously, the bow and arrow was the greatest weapon the world had until gunpowder

the mounted archer was THE thing that won wars, just ask Atilla the hun


Edit:

Characters start at their max effective ranges from each other, so for this they'd be about 40-ish meters apart. Both are in each other's kill zones, and Pit has a big-*** shield to hide behind.

 

[REL38]

@RWB

Although difficult, a character has more going for them when they have a working bow that has range
Where out of 1000 fights, they'd hit more often than miss


The Boomerang ends up being a one use stunner, since it'll hurt, but do cause Pit to be vulnerable for a bit if hit

But Pit's shield would stray away a boomerang or arrows

Toon Link's arrows would be limited by range and Pit's are a given bad

Close range is the way to go and Toon Link has a much better chance there


@JOE

What about something like Snake vs Zamus

 

[Nova9000]

Pit's shield > Arrows

Santa's Elf has to approach where he might be able to pull a bomb off

That is true. But he can't shield forever. So when he does drop his guard TL can pop him. But bombs do the trick as well.

Why does DK lose to Mario & Luigi? Imo, big giant musclar ape >> plumbers with hammers they can't really weild.

Vs Roy and Marth should also be a draw. Maybe a win even vs Marth.

Well....

Since you've been gone, Luigi and Mario have different weapons. Mario now has this

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/426/superscope04ot2.jpg

And Weegee has these:

http://www.vividlight.com/37/images/Tomahawk 1.jpg

And both beat DK.

And why is Roy v. Marth a draw?

With the realistic basis, Toon Link loses his best weapon- durability.


And please don't whine about this being a long post; it needs to be this long to have all the facts in it.

Welcome to TDB, where WoTs are used frequently to get your point across.

Spoiler

Too bad no one reads anymore :/

Bows are being overestimated here. There's a reason you used squads/surprise shooting in war. hitting a moving target with a bow of that time was effing hard. Also, the boomerang is being neglected here, but I'll put the argument about the end of this post.

Do you know how fast an arrow can travel? This may not apply to Tink and Pit so much per se, but they are pretty lethal. and considering how many they have access to, they wont dodge them all.

How far is it between the characters?

50-100 meters? Less?

50+ means both have good chances of avoiding an arrow(barely). At 100+, neither is hitting the other- they likely won't even get the arrows that far.


In fact, I concluded both are disadvantaged...

Pit's bow is tiny(based on his own games), and realistically, wouldn't shoot 35 meters(and that's when we're going for sheer reach, not aim). Todays compound bows of that small size can't effectively be used beyond 40 meters, and they are a ridiculous amount superior in power.

The Brawl bow is impossible in itself- no string and made of rigid metal. Anyway, even if possible to use it would likely not be usable beyond 50 yards, it's too short.

Tink's bow is equal larger.

WW Bow is about a meter in height. Would go slightly beyond 50 yards.
Brawl version bow is about 1.20 m(equal to Tink's height, as confirmed by debug mode WW) and can perhaps go up to 70 yards.

But Tink's too weak to shoot the full distance.

Neither is using bows on par with today's compound bows.


Tink wins this matchup by closing in the distance and slashing Pit, unless Pit gets a ridiculously lucky shot in.

Boomerang:

Can be thrown at least 40 yards with an accurate ellips movement. Depending on the 'rang, as far as 200 meters.

With Tink's realistic strength, about 50 yards seems likely.

Pit does not wanna get hit.

Seems about right.

 

[REL38]

Luigi's Hammer Bros. "tomahawks" are more so little war hammers that provide blunt force

I guess using the word "tomahawks" wasn't the best word

I actually kinda wonder if they can really kill Donkey Kong
I know Adumb said something about it :/

 

[Nova9000]

Beats me as well. But I figured if it's a headshot it should be fatal right?

 

[JOE!]

Well, after he hits him with the hammer, DK falls off the construction sit...owait

Im pretty sure a throwing hammer would severely hamper DK, and seeing as the bros can carry multiple, theyd be enough to kill.


@Rel:

See DK vs Snake :/

 

[Nova9000]

Anyway, it seems we have a general concensus of every MU. I'll update the chart tonight and I guess we should try to move on from there. I'll reorganize this stuff in the chart and make it people friendly (pictures).

 

[RWB]

I stopped reading after you said bows are over-rated

Then keep reading, instead of behaving like a five-year old.

Bows are overrated in this fight. They're great weapons, but one to one is not the home of a bow, it's meant to be used by groups.

seriously, WOW

seriously, the bow and arrow was the greatest weapon the world had until gunpowder

the mounted archer was THE thing that won wars, just ask Atilla the hun

Longbow Squads would slaughter the **** out of Attila's mounted archers. But again- SQUADS. Longbow squads don't target a person but an area.

And you're right about the bow being the best weapon until guns- the longbow espescially so. But not for one on one combat.

Best close combat weapon in war? Spear. In one on one, are spears good close range weapons? No, they're inferior to axes, maces, swords and flails, and heck, even daggers.

Best weapon for war doesn't equal best weapon for duel.


Also, both these characters are mounted archers that can shoot and retreat in the same move. Both of these carry real bows and not far too short and ridiculous bows, right?

Mounted Archers are awesome, but neither of the characters is one, and even adult Link lacks the retreat shot skill that made mounted archers so deadly.

Characters start at their max effective ranges from each other, so for this they'd be about 40-ish meters apart. Both are in each other's kill zones, and Pit has a big-*** shield to hide behind.

40 meters... That's too far away for Pit's bow to reach(I'm going with his own games, since Brawl's bow is realistically impossible). Pit's bow maximum range were he can even aim(not just fire at random and get it as far as possible) is below 20 meters. A swordsman can cover that distance in the time it takes an archer to load and aim. Heck, there are sword lunges that in themselves close in more than 4 meters.

While Link's boomerang can reach 40 meters. If Pit hides behind the shield to stop the boomerang, Link can easily close in some 15 meters.


Pit's bow is simply too pathetic in size to be useful.

@RWB

Although difficult, a character has more going for them when they have a working bow that has range
Where out of 1000 fights, they'd hit more often than miss

No, they'd likely miss most of the time, but they'd be packing a close combat weapon too. Shoot an arrow, then draw your sword. That's the advantage.

A 20% chance of beating an opponent before he gets close+50% in close beats just 50% in close.


Also, 20 meter effective range bows are completely useless, and that's what Pit's bow is, realistically due to it's size and design.

Do you know how fast an arrow can travel? This may not apply to Tink and Pit so much per se, but they are pretty lethal. and considering how many they have access to, they wont dodge them all.

Arrows travel fast, but if you can see an archer from a distance and you're moving about, you're unlikely to get hit. A hit can easily be lethal as you say though. How many arrows they have? It's unlikely the archer would fire more than one arrow before switching to Close Combat weapons. Two at most, it simply takes too much time to fire more than that.

 

[Nova9000]

That is true. But they would close the gap and move. The arrows provide pressure and give the opposite person a chance to advance and close ground for a fatal shot or use of other technique. And if they are as far as you imply that they are, shooting more than two arrows is plausible-as long as they provide pressure to keep the other grounded. With this in mind, Tink's bow seems to be stronger and shoot further as you eluded to already. So once this gap is closed, then Tink can shoot out of Pit's range and start to use bombs/boomerang. Either way, I say it's close but Tink edges out.

 

[RWB]

You're unlikely to be able to shoot more than one arrow if there's a 50 meter distance between you and your opponent. Assuming you aim at all.

It takes about 2 seconds to load an arrow, then at least a few seconds to aim and let the arrow go.

If you miss, the opponent has already covered more than half the distance, and when you've loaded the second one they are close enough to slice you in two.

And I'm not assuming the running person to be that fast, here.



Pit's bow has an effective range of about twenty meters. He can load one arrow, but he might not even get to fire it(he won't have time to aim) assuming he starts within range to shoot Link.


And we're talking very skilled archers, here. Less skilled ones can take a minimum of five seconds just to load.

If that's the case, they get two arrows off in the time a regular person runs a hundred meters- and note that the first has no chance of hitting thanks to aim(unless we're talking compound/freestyle bows)- and the second won't get the time needed to aim. Better to simply use one arrow and aim it.




Tink wins due to actual close combat skill, longer bowrange(if barely), and Boomerang pressure.

 

[JOE!]

Tink wins vs pit due to what allways wins: more effectivness at different ranges.

the boomerang is kinda silly though, why the hell would he use it is he has a bow?

 

[Nova9000]

@ JOE!:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8639950&postcount=11415

I'll PM you and US with the details of everything between now and the end of the week.

 

[JOE!]

allrighty, mind if I compse a ranking list out of it?