TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[UncleSam]

I was talking about it tho T.T
guess I said circulatory by accident.
What I really meant was since Pikmin Cells can go through both cellular respiratory cycles it would be a perfect loop.
as for circulatory it still wouldn't need that.
do you know about the earliest of earliest of vertebrates?
no circulatory system... just a notochord, a cavity and cells, lots of em.
all the cells did their own work to keep the species as a whole alive.
the Same thing applies here except at a level where once it starts it doesn't have to rely on an outside source to keep moving.

EDIT: if you don't reply soon I'll start breakdancing... BEAR

 

[Sieguest]

I was talking about it tho T.T
guess I said circulatory by accident.
What I really meant was since Pikmin Cells can go through both cellular respiratory cycles it would be a perfect loop.
as for circulatory it still wouldn't need that.
do you know about the earliest of earliest of vertebrates?
no circulatory system... just a notochord, a cavity and cells, lots of em.
all the cells did their own work to keep the species as a whole alive.
the Same thing applies here except at a level where once it starts it doesn't have to rely on an outside source to keep moving.

Even early vertebrate had a circulatory system. Falling under the phylum chordata subclassed into Craniata and then in vertebrata.

http://www.palaeos.com/Vertebrates/Units/020Craniata/000.html

http://wfscnet.tamu.edu/TCWC/Herps_online/Hibbitts/Early Vertebrates [Compatibility Mode].pdf

A circulatory system was imperative.


As for the respiratory system, cellular respiration is plausible.

 

[UncleSam]

most likely because of the cavity.
Pikmin don't need a cavity though.

they have no need to transfer anything anywhere if all processes begin and end in the same place.

 

[Sieguest]

most likely because of the cavity.
Pikmin don't need a cavity though.

they have no need to transfer anything anywhere if all processes begin and end in the same place.

False. Only the nutrient producing process is cyclic in the sense that you're talking about. If there is no cell movement - or in the case of strictly plants as Nova put it, active transport- then the products of the process get nowhere except for in the cells that are taking place in the process (which would be those in the flower). The cyclic circulation IS the process of transferring nutrients (throughout the entire body, not just the flower), not the cyclic process that produces the nutrients.

What Nova did earlier was simplify the Pikmin from a hybrid of plant and animal, to strictly plant. This remedies the circulation problem, but now comes the energy crisis.
With only one small flower, how do the pikmin produce enough energy to fuel active transport of nutrients through cells, the use of nutrients for all of those cell activities, and have energy to even walk? The pikmin are extremely thin on energy.

 

[Beren Zaiga]

False. Only the nutrient producing process is cyclic in the sense that you're talking about. If there is no cell movement - or in the case of strictly plants as Nova put it, active transport- then the products of the process get nowhere except for in the cells that are taking place in the process (which would be those in the flower). The cyclic circulation IS the process of transferring nutrients (throughout the entire body, not just the flower), not the cyclic process that produces the nutrients.

What Nova did earlier was simplify the Pikmin from a hybrid of plant and animal, to strictly plant. This remedies the circulation problem, but now comes the energy crisis.
With only one small flower, how do the pikmin produce enough energy to fuel active transport of nutrients through cells, the use of nutrients for all of those cell activities, and have energy to even walk? The pikmin are extremely thin on energy.

Its Evolution my dear Watson!

The Pikmin are known to have many enemies, as such, adaptation would occur down the line in order for them to survive, as such, the possibility of the cells that make-up their body to change is viable, and therefore opens up the possibility of a sort of super-plant cell that can process sunlight into nutrients at a high rate of speed (This assumes that there are survivors). Which would make the flower able to support the Pikmin by itself.

The Pikmin are fine on energy.

 

[Nova9000]

Its Evolution my dear Watson!

The Pikmin are known to have many enemies, as such, adaptation would occur down the line in order for them to survive, as such, the possibility of the cells that make-up their body to change is viable, and therefore opens up the possibility of a sort of super-plant cell that can process sunlight into nutrients at a high rate of speed (This assumes that there are survivors). Which would make the flower able to support the Pikmin by itself.

The Pikmin are fine on energy.

At least somebody gets it...

 

[Sieguest]

Its Evolution my dear Watson!

The Pikmin are known to have many enemies, as such, adaptation would occur down the line in order for them to survive, as such, the possibility of the cells that make-up their body to change is viable, and therefore opens up the possibility of a sort of super-plant cell that can process sunlight into nutrients at a high rate of speed (This assumes that there are survivors). Which would make the flower able to support the Pikmin by itself.

The Pikmin are fine on energy.

If only it were that easy...

How would that work on a cellular level?
What possible catalyst could provide for that?
How could you rearrange organelle structure to provide for that without hindering the pikmin?

At least somebody gets it...

In the thinly explained sense, yes.

 

[Beren Zaiga]

If only it were that easy...

How would that work on a cellular level?
What possible catalyst could provide for that?
How could you rearrange organelle structure to provide for that without hindering the pikmin?

For what reason would the organelle structure need to be re-arranged, or are you simply hair-splitting in order to try to make it harder to give you a rebuttal?

The thylakoids in the grana need only increased in number, and made smaller to accomodate the inclusion of those thylakoids, which contain the light-reaction centres needed for ligh-based Photosynthesis to occur. The smaller and more numerous, the faster. Think like our microchips for computers, they are going to keep getting smaller, and the processing power will keep increasing exponentially.

Chlorophyll A is all that is needed, as it is the best at absorbing light for the photosynthesis process at 400-450nm and 650-700nm of the electromagnetic spectrum. Their bodies also generate more stroma in the plant cells than a normal plant to catalyze CO2 and starches at higher rates of speed than a normal plant.

Your turn. Mr.Oh-So-Smart.

 

[Nova9000]

To add on to the evolution, think of it like this. Pikmin are dying because of "X" factor. For the time we'll say the lack of sun. So a mtation develops in which the new Pikmin can survive without snlight. It reproduces and the mutation happens again. This contunues until eventually the Pikmin develop legs and shun traditional roots. Remember this ain't earth, so who knows how long this took. The Pikmin spreaded to the areas where you find the reds, yellows, and blues.

So with that said, is it that far fetched that Pikmin can work? I'm sure there is a reason why they go into Onions at night. No photosynthesis can occur at night and enemies graze at night so the onion protects them.

 

[UncleSam]

people are understanding my reasoning.
I caused a spark.

anyway I don't like pikmin I just wanted my point to get through.

... 3 more posts.

 

[Beren Zaiga]

people are understanding my reasoning.
I caused a spark.

anyway I don't like pikmin I just wanted my point to get through.

... 3 more posts.

I've seen that dance before...I know I have.

 

[UncleSam]

I've seen that dance before...I know I have.

It's the breakdancing bear in "We know something"
wait where's the whole vid...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkjTM4AfYdU&feature=related

it's such a random vid.

 

[Nova9000]

people are understanding my reasoning.
I caused a spark.

anyway I don't like pikmin I just wanted my point to get through.

... 3 more posts.

Lol. And yea I get it. Seems like everyone does but Guest now.
And if Diddy doesn't respond today, I'll add the MUs to my chart.

 

[Sieguest]

For what reason would the organelle structure need to be re-arranged, or are you simply hair-splitting in order to try to make it harder to give you a rebuttal?

For trying to make it more productive you'd have to change the organelle structure within the cell, keeping the current system is limited as I've all ready said, multiple times.

The thylakoids in the grana need only increased in number, and made smaller to accomodate the inclusion of those thylakoids, which contain the light-reaction centres needed for ligh-based Photosynthesis to occur. The smaller and more numerous, the faster. Think like our microchips for computers, they are going to keep getting smaller, and the processing power will keep increasing exponentially.

Now you need to allocate for increased active transport, the additional needs of skeletal and muscular systems, along with normal plant activity.

Chlorophyll A is all that is needed, as it is the best at absorbing light for the photosynthesis process at 400-450nm and 650-700nm of the electromagnetic spectrum. Their bodies also generate more stroma in the plant cells than a normal plant to catalyze CO2 and starches at higher rates of speed than a normal plant.

Your turn. Mr.Oh-So-Smart.

Again, organelle reconstruction, how will you allocate the other organelles? If hairs had to be split to justify Pikachu then I'm making **** sure you do the same for pikmin. Basically, I'm making you prove every single ounce of pikmin as plausible.

Your turn. Mr. Oh-So-Ego

Lol. And yea I get it. Seems like everyone does but Guest now.
And if Diddy doesn't respond today, I'll add the MUs to my chart.

>.> Probably for the reason that Sam is using a biological function characteristic only to single cell organisms. Where only the cyclic, nutrient producing process is needed to provide for the organism. Pikmin are for the umpteenth time, multicellular, the cyclic process of photosynthesis is limited to the cells in place to undergo the process, and the circulatory system is required to transfer the nutrients to other parts of the body, and then the transfer of nutrients from cell to cell can only be through active transport due to cell walls. I don't know how many times I'll have to say this until you all get that through your heads. But I'll correct you every single time.

That and his example of early vertebrae has all ready been shown to be slightly inaccurate. As well as having no relevance to pikmin.

So don't see the point at all. >.>

 

[REL38]

So why can't Pikmin posses a new type of cell that utilizes the necessary materials from both Animal and Plant Cells to make PikPik Cells which fully allow an organism to posses plant and animal charicaristics?

Evolution should be reason enough to justify existence.
Ivy's poison spore-ites were justified through evolution.
Not fully explained.
Given the explaination of "spore-like material" when RL spores are aimed to reproduce, not directly serve as a defensive system.

I still fail to see as to why a character's existence should be called to question.
Hindering a character based on their attributes and abilities, sure.
But killing them before they even enter the battlefield just makes me sigh.
Yoshi was hindered, but could still potentionally compete as could Kirby, that is, if being an alien had allowed him justifiable evidence for functioning in a manner not trait to how life is practically required by standards present for Earth-based organisms.


More importantly and my biggest concern, what exactly are we justifying as Realistic?

This thread has started from allowing Charizard full flight to being grounded to limitation of fire to no fire to questionable fire usage.

Spacies have had lasers/w reflectors to malfunctioning reflectors to auto-matic energy based rifles to no weapons to blasters, yet again

This is more so directed towards JOE, so exactly what are we going to set as Realistic?
Realism is present on various degrees via being lenient for certain aspects, but I'd like to see a set standard of "realism" followed in this thread.
As to avoid this constant shift of ideas seen as "realistic" or "non-realistic"


That's really my larger concern and 2 cents
:/

 

[Diddy Kong]

They use them on a regular basis to kill seals. Don't see why they couldn't do the same to Diddy.

I don't see how they can? Seals are a little bit more helpless than chimps. Yes, the hammers would still hurt, but I'm not thinking Diddy loses that badly to them, if at all. If he manages to kill one climber, and takes the hammer it's Diddy who's in advantage.

So unless someone differs, Diddy wins that MU.

Good. =)

I think I'm the only one who like Ivy. But The whites and Oli survive Ivy's attack, and Oli cant kill Ivy with just whites, so it looks like a draw to me.

Can't Ivysaur... bite?

I said teh same when she fought ICs, but thts how it goes sometimes...

A draw is a better solution I think. Vs Ness, Lucas and Peach. They're HELPLESS up close, and bombs... aren't really as effective as a sword or gun. It's more about chance with them. Sure, they can be destructive, but descructive isn't effective.

Apparently she has nados, Something that Diddy doesn't have.

Um, what are nados?

I played DK64 so I know what the oranges do. But also note that how does he carry them? ANd how would a chimp use a nade? And still that's not my call. JOE! decides on that. I mean, look at what we had to do to get him the guitar lol.

Dunno, how come Peach is carrying bombs? Only from her Super Mario RPG special attack I presume? Doesn't means she's exactly holding them either. I think it''s only reasonable to give Diddy bombs if other characters get them as well. Even Lucas and Ness. In their respective games, bombs aren't even important at all...

Lol. I never saw that before. Is that Canon though?

No, its the beta version of DK64. I'm thinking Nintendo didn't agreed with it so the Kongs got fruit shooters instead. It's a bit of a shame though...

Yes he has fire breath. So how would you figure Diddy beats the fail candle?

[/QUOTE]

Dunno... Bombs? lolz

 

[Nova9000]

>.> Probably for the reason that Sam is using a biological function characteristic only to single cell organisms. Where only the cyclic, nutrient producing process is needed to provide for the organism. Pikmin are for the umpteenth time, multicellular, the cyclic process of photosynthesis is limited to the cells in place to undergo the process, and the circulatory system is required to transfer the nutrients to other parts of the body, and then the transfer of nutrients from cell to cell can only be through active transport due to cell walls. I don't know how many times I'll have to say this until you all get that through your heads. But I'll correct you every single time.

That and his example of early vertebrae has all ready been shown to be slightly inaccurate. As well as having no relevance to pikmin.

So don't see the point at all. >.>

I understand they are multi-cellular lol, They have everything you said they had to have in regards to a circulatory system. They're evolved to have a few things modified, but what more do you need to kno? Photosynthesis occurs, they gain energy and use it.

So why can't Pikmin posses a new type of cell that utilizes the necessary materials from both Animal and Plant Cells to make PikPik Cells which fully allow an organism to posses plant and animal charicaristics?

Evolution should be reason enough to justify existence.
Ivy's poison spore-ites were justified through evolution.
Not fully explained.
Given the explaination of "spore-like material" when RL spores are aimed to reproduce, not directly serve as a defensive system.

I still fail to see as to why a character's existence should be called to question.
Hindering a character based on their attributes and abilities, sure.
But killing them before they even enter the battlefield just makes me sigh.
Yoshi was hindered, but could still potentionally compete as could Kirby, that is, if being an alien had allowed him justifiable evidence for functioning in a manner not trait to how life is practically required by standards present for Earth-based organisms.


More importantly and my biggest concern, what exactly are we justifying as Realistic?

This thread has started from allowing Charizard full flight to being grounded to limitation of fire to no fire to questionable fire usage.

Spacies have had lasers/w reflectors to malfunctioning reflectors to auto-matic energy based rifles to no weapons to blasters, yet again

This is more so directed towards JOE, so exactly what are we going to set as Realistic?
Realism is present on various degrees via being lenient for certain aspects, but I'd like to see a set standard of "realism" followed in this thread.
As to avoid this constant shift of ideas seen as "realistic" or "non-realistic"


That's really my larger concern and 2 cents
:/

Well in regard to the cell thing, I wouldn't oppose that. As we talked about earlier, it could work but it has become more a science experiment to prove certain things exist in RL. I understand what you're saying, but if he didn't do that then how much more slack would JOE! have gotten? He really can't win, so he goes off majority vote. But at least Oli is making progress...

I don't see how they can? Seals are a little bit more helpless than chimps. Yes, the hammers would still hurt, but I'm not thinking Diddy loses that badly to them, if at all. If he manages to kill one climber, and takes the hammer it's Diddy who's in advantage.

Seals are less fragile than Diddy is. Two hammers still kill 1 chimp.

Can't Ivysaur... bite?

He could, but the whites are poison and so is he. No judgment. If he tries to bite Oli, Oli can move. That simple.

A draw is a better solution I think. Vs Ness, Lucas and Peach. They're HELPLESS up close, and bombs... aren't really as effective as a sword or gun. It's more about chance with them. Sure, they can be destructive, but descructive isn't effective.

Um, what are nados?

Dunno, how come Peach is carrying bombs? Only from her Super Mario RPG special attack I presume? Doesn't means she's exactly holding them either. I think it''s only reasonable to give Diddy bombs if other characters get them as well. Even Lucas and Ness. In their respective games, bombs aren't even important at all...

Draws occur when there is no way that one could kill the other in more scenarios or they both die. In this case, Diddy has to dodge the bombs to get inside. You don't need that much to throw bombs. I see more often than not bombs taking him out before he gets inside. Nados are grenades btw. And I think she had a bag, but check 4.5 or ask justaway.

No, its the beta version of DK64. I'm thinking Nintendo didn't agreed with it so the Kongs got fruit shooters instead. It's a bit of a shame though...

Dunno... Bombs? lolz

But the beta version ain't what we used to base things off of. If that were the case, Sonic would have his sword, Yoshi would shoot eggs like a gun, ect.

And maybe Diddy hump his neck....pause.....

 

[Beren Zaiga]

Again, organelle reconstruction, how will you allocate the other organelles? If hairs had to be split to justify Pikachu then I'm making **** sure you do the same for pikmin. Basically, I'm making you prove every single ounce of pikmin as plausible.

Your turn. Mr. Oh-So-Ego.

Ad Hominem as it is, how does me adding Mr.Oh-So-Smart to the end of my post justifies me having an over-inflated ego or something of the like? Do you not see the satire I was throwing at you?

Why would the organelles need to be allocated? That is something I think you have not answered as of yet. The ever important "Why" question.

As I see it, compression of thylakoids to allow the existence of a larger abundance of thylakoid light reaction centres would boost their light-harvesting abilities when utilizing Chlorophyll A inside the grana. The grana would be the same size as they always have been, but the thylakoids would be smaller and produce more energy due to their larger abundance and smaller size. Yes, the amount they would produce at a time would be minute, but they would be producing it at such speed as to be negligible.

Thylakoids are the biggest component in photosynthesis, which is why I am focusing on them. They harvest the light to split CO2 and water into glucoses and then into ATP. I also don't see why an increased production of stroma would also call for organelle reconstruction.

It is possible to increase the number of thylakoids while keeping the grana the same size as before. Which would not need reconstruction of the organelle structure by any means, and Stroma having an increased production rate, is another thing I do not see as a reason to reconstruct the organelle structure.

What I see is someone who wants to make an argument out of something potentially ad hominem.

 

[REL38]

If hairs had to be split to justify Pikachu then I'm making **** sure you do the same for pikmin. Basically, I'm making you prove every single ounce of pikmin as plausible.

Oh, I see where this is going . . . .

 

[Sieguest]

So why can't Pikmin posses a new type of cell that utilizes the necessary materials from both Animal and Plant Cells to make PikPik Cells which fully allow an organism to posses plant and animal charicaristics?

Explain it.

Ad Hominem as it is, how does me adding Mr.Oh-So-Smart to the end of my post justifies me having an over-inflated ego or something of the like? Do you not see the complete insult I was throwing at you?

Fixed....

Why would the organelles need to be allocated? That is something I think you have not answered as of yet. The ever important "Why" question.

Because, with the changes you wish to make, you have to also account for what happens to the vacuole that makes up 90% of the cell. The mitochondria and the distribution of energy, if you plan on taking in more energy, then you must compensate for this with more mitochondria, if you must add more mitochondria, then you compromise the size of the vacuole, if you compromise the size of the vacuole, then you compromise the amount of water held by a plant cell. Water being vital to plant life and in the chemical reactions entailed by photosynthesis. By enhancing one area, you endanger another, still leaving a gap in the muscular and skeletal systems.

Thylakoids are the biggest component in photosynthesis, which is why I am focusing on them. They harvest the light to split CO2 and water into glucoses and then into ATP. I also don't see why an increased production of stroma would also call for organelle reconstruction.

See above.

It is possible to increase the number of thylakoids while keeping the grana the same size as before. Which would not need reconstruction of the organelle structure by any means, and Stroma having an increased production rate, is another thing I do not see as a reason to reconstruct the organelle structure.

Once more, see above.

What I see is someone who wants to make an argument out of something potentially ad hominem.

And what I see is someone making snide comments in order to dissuade someone else from arguing. Your point?

Oh, I see where this is going . . . .

*nods*

 

[Nova9000]

Oh, I see where this is going . . . .

I see where he wants to take this as well...no fun...

 

[Sieguest]

x.x ignore this post.

 

[REL38]

Explain it.

Except I won't

At least, not in-depth or put forth much effort

Because I feel a character's existence shouldn't come into question


I'm just tossing ideas out there for an arguement I feel shouldn't even be taking place.

I mean, it's not like Pikmin are the only creatures in the Pikmin world that have this PikPik Cell . . . .

*nods*

*sighs*


@Nova

. . . . I don't even know what to say about that pic

 

[Nova9000]

@ REL:
Yea...thts how a lot of things have been...
@ Diddy Kong:
So who else are you refuting besides ICs, Peach, Ness Lucas, and Zard? Because I can start filling in the chart tonight.
Guess I'll get started on Mario today...

 

[Diddy Kong]

@ Diddy Kong:
So who else are you refuting besides ICs, Peach, Ness Lucas, and Zard? Because I can start filling in the chart tonight.
Guess I'll get started on Mario today...

Luigi and Mario bother me as well. Are they beating DK for example? Because they shouldn't... Mario was throwing hammers right? Well, how accurate would that be? How many hammers is he packing? Can't Diddy do the same thing? You know, pick them up and throw them back? Luigi had a axe, or hammer? Anyhow, it's likely he isn't able to pick it up...

With the guitar, maybe Diddy even has a decent shot against Young and Toon Link. Well um... considering they aren't using their bows.

 

[Nova9000]

Luigi and Mario bother me as well. Are they beating DK for example? Because they shouldn't... Mario was throwing hammers right? Well, how accurate would that be? How many hammers is he packing? Can't Diddy do the same thing? You know, pick them up and throw them back? Luigi had a axe, or hammer? Anyhow, it's likely he isn't able to pick it up...

With the guitar, maybe Diddy even has a decent shot against Young and Toon Link. Well um... considering they aren't using their bows.

I would have Mario winning since you can't really catch a throwing hammer, unless you catch it by it implaing you. he could throw 3 IIRC so maybe we'll stick with that. I have Mario beating DK as well, just so you kno.

Weegee has the giant hammer. He can pick it up, but he wouldn't have the longevity or skill tht the ICs have for example. That one would be a toss up IMO, but if Luigi hits Diddy dies. Diddy has to hit Luigi and do it a few times to kill him. So with that in mind I would give it to Luigi. However, I think Luigi already lost to Diddy lol.

And Diddy is gonna lose to both of them because of bows. Sorry...

 

[Beren Zaiga]

Because, with the changes you wish to make, you have to also account for what happens to the vacuole that makes up 90% of the cell. The mitochondria and the distribution of energy, if you plan on taking in more energy, then you must compensate for this with more mitochondria, if you must add more mitochondria, then you compromise the size of the vacuole, if you compromise the size of the vacuole, then you compromise the amount of water held by a plant cell. Water being vital to plant life and in the chemical reactions entailed by photosynthesis. By enhancing one area, you endanger another, still leaving a gap in the muscular and skeletal systems.

I apologize for my snideness then...

I am not joking or mocking, I mean it.

As for Pikachu, part of the reason I split hairs with him is because of a mistake you made, that I think many could have made, and I jumped on it and researched a bit of it. We all remember the Zinc Oxide argument. I shall not boast, let us move on.

@Mitochondria: Minimizing the size of the Mitochondria by about half-size or more I think would suffice, if not, then increasing the size of the overall cell would be required so the other components of the cell don't get crowded by the vacuole if you increase its size.

I am in thinking in terms of computers here. Our bodies and plant bodies are like organic machines, and you are right by enhancing one area and endangering another. However, organic machines are somewhat more amiable to adapting than a purely mechanical one.

Minimizing the size of the Mitochondria also can account for the increase of mitochondria, just like the thylakoids become smaller to account for a higher abundance of thylakoids.

 

[Sieguest]

I apologize for my snideness then...

I am not joking or mocking, I mean it.

As for Pikachu, part of the reason I split hairs with him is because of a mistake you made, that I think many could have made, and I jumped on it and researched a bit of it. We all remember the Zinc Oxide argument. I shall not boast, let us move on.

It's all good.

Yes, yes, I remember quite well.0_0 Although since your absence that mistake has been remedied. Sam and I looked up a more plausible LL Dielectric to put into play. Good times though. (emotions flying and such x.x)

@Mitochondria: Minimizing the size of the Mitochondria by about half-size or more I think would suffice, if not, then increasing the size of the overall cell would be required so the other components of the cell don't get crowded by the vacuole if you increase its size.

I am in thinking in terms of computers here. Our bodies and plant bodies are like organic machines, and you are right by enhancing one area and endangering another. However, organic machines are somewhat more amiable to adapting than a purely mechanical one.

Minimizing the size of the Mitochondria also can account for the increase of mitochondria, just like the thylakoids become smaller to account for a higher abundance of thylakoids.

That is true, I could see decreasing size and increasing number to clear the room deficit, and increasing cell size is another option.

Moving on,
What do you propose to cover the plants physical ramifications? Seeing as how they'll be running and attacking and such, the energy part is covered, but what about releasing of heat. Physical activity would lead to more transpiration, and that's water coming out of the plant system. We can't factor in environmental effects of chance (i.e. rain) and jumping into a thing of water would drown all but blue (given that there is a non-manmade body of water in the battlefield). With water coming out of the system, then the light you're taking in for photosynthesis becomes useless because you're missing a fundamental part of the chemical reaction: CO2 + H2O + Light = O2 + C6H12O6. I guess this is also something to factor into the energy crisis

 

[Xiahou Dun]

I see a lot of arguing back and forth over "A plant can't do this." and "Can a plant do this?" etc etc"

Is a Pikmin actually a plant?

This question is a serious one btw...

I never really played the Pikmin games so my view point may be limited let me know if theirs any other information I need to know about but they don't really seem to show any characteristics that actually mean they have to be plants.

I mean all we seem to go off when we call a Pikmin a plant is that they get pulled out of the ground and have little leaves on top of their heads. They could easily just be burrowing creatures and Ivysaur has leaves growing out of him...What else really shows them to be plants? Almost everything else is generally very animal.

I guess a better question is "What does a Pikmin actually have/do that would show it HAS to be treated as a plant as there is no explanation for how an Animal could work in this way"

If the Pikmin were to be considered as an animal and not a plant what contradictions and problems with them are removed and what remain?

 

[Nova9000]

I see a lot of arguing back and forth over "A plant can't do this." and "Can a plant do this?" etc etc"

Is a Pikmin actually a plant?

This question is a serious one btw...

I never really played the Pikmin games so my view point may be limited let me know if theirs any other information I need to know about but they don't really seem to show any characteristics that actually mean they have to be plants.

I mean all we seem to go off when we call a Pikmin a plant is that they get pulled out of the ground and have little leaves on top of their heads. They could easily just be burrowing creatures and Ivysaur has leaves growing out of him...What else really shows them to be plants? Almost everything else is generally very animal.

I guess a better question is "What does a Pikmin actually have/do that would show it HAS to be treated as a plant as there is no explanation for how an Animal could work in this way"

If the Pikmin were to be considered as an animal and not a plant what contradictions and problems with them are removed and what remain?

Hmmmm....you may be on to something...except for being planted/uprooted, the flowers growing, and no mouths, they could be called animals I guess. As expected, a few rules would have to be changed, but maybe it could work.

 

[REL38]

I see a lot of arguing back and forth over "A plant can't do this." and "Can a plant do this?" etc etc"

Is a Pikmin actually a plant?

This question is a serious one btw...

I never really played the Pikmin games so my view point may be limited let me know if theirs any other information I need to know about but they don't really seem to show any characteristics that actually mean they have to be plants.

I mean all we seem to go off when we call a Pikmin a plant is that they get pulled out of the ground and have little leaves on top of their heads. They could easily just be burrowing creatures and Ivysaur has leaves growing out of him...What else really shows them to be plants? Almost everything else is generally very animal.

I guess a better question is "What does a Pikmin actually have/do that would show it HAS to be treated as a plant as there is no explanation for how an Animal could work in this way"

If the Pikmin were to be considered as an animal and not a plant what contradictions and problems with them are removed and what remain?

I, personally, bargain more with Pikmin having more of an "animal" base with additional "plant" attributes.

Pikmin have full mobility, sight, speech and hearing as well has forms of thought.

They are born as "seeds"

They have no apparent need for food.
Probable "asexual reproduction"
They grow from leaf to bud to flower when rooted underground

They hunt and forage for "food" to supply their Onion (which makes the "seeds")


This is all off the top of my head so there may be a few more
Free movement and actions characteristic to that of "animal" beings has me believe them being more "animal" with "plant" perks.

 

[Sieguest]

I see a lot of arguing back and forth over "A plant can't do this." and "Can a plant do this?" etc etc"

Is a Pikmin actually a plant?

This question is a serious one btw...

I never really played the Pikmin games so my view point may be limited let me know if theirs any other information I need to know about but they don't really seem to show any characteristics that actually mean they have to be plants.

I mean all we seem to go off when we call a Pikmin a plant is that they get pulled out of the ground and have little leaves on top of their heads. They could easily just be burrowing creatures and Ivysaur has leaves growing out of him...What else really shows them to be plants? Almost everything else is generally very animal.

I guess a better question is "What does a Pikmin actually have/do that would show it HAS to be treated as a plant as there is no explanation for how an Animal could work in this way"

If the Pikmin were to be considered as an animal and not a plant what contradictions and problems with them are removed and what remain?

Hmmmm....you may be on to something...except for being planted/uprooted, the flowers growing, and no mouths, they could be called animals I guess. As expected, a few rules would have to be changed, but maybe it could work.

I, personally, bargain more with Pikmin having more of an "animal" base with additional "plant" attributes.

Pikmin have full mobility, sight, speech and hearing as well has forms of thought.

They are born as "seeds"

They have no apparent need for food.
Probable "asexual reproduction"
They grow from leaf to bud to flower when rooted underground

They hunt and forage for "food" to supply their Onion (which makes the "seeds")


This is all off the top of my head so there may be a few more
Free movement and actions characteristic to that of "animal" beings has me believe them being more "animal" with "plant" perks.

*shrugs* I was taking Nova's simplification of Pikmin as purely having plant cells, and not a hybrid of Plant and Animal.

I've all ready described what ramifications occur with a hybrid mix.

And with just animal cells, you lose the ability of photosynthesis, main facet of fueling energy production in Pikmin.

 

[Xiahou Dun]

Could someone explain the "Onions" in detail please. All I seem to be able to make out so far is that they are involved with Pikmin reproducing. They seem to be the only purely "Plant" quality a Pikmin actually posesses although that could be just because I don't know what they are.

Animals can and do reproduce asexually this is not a plant trait.

How does the Seed-Pikmin process go?

And yes they lsoe photosynthesis but they gain all the animal methods of energy gain so meh.

 

[Sieguest]

And yes they lsoe photosynthesis but they gain all the animal methods of energy gain so meh.

Which would require eating, but.... no mouth....

 

[Beren Zaiga]

*Currently mumbling in thought over Guest's inqury*

...
...
...

EUREKA!!

I think I've got it!

Guest, you are familiar with bivalves I take it? How about this? Air Moisture is obtained by air suction valves similar to the kind found on bivalves in the ocean. A multitude of entrance and exit valves on the body that are about the size of the head of a pin? The valve systems filter the two materials into the cells via organic micro-tubules which then take waste products and issued them out of the exit valves around the body!

 

[Sieguest]

*Currently mumbling in thought over Guest's inqury*

...
...
...

EUREKA!!

I think I've got it!

Guest, you are familiar with bivalves I take it? How about this? Air Moisture is obtained by air suction valves similar to the kind found on bivalves in the ocean. A multitude of entrance and exit valves on the body that are about the size of the head of a pin? The valve systems filter the two materials into the cells via organic micro-tubules which then take waste products and issued them out of the exit valves around the body!

So kind of like the pores on our body? Take in moisture through the air to use and expel the excess gases and such that are with it? In the case of evolution I suppose that works.
I believe that solves the water problem, and in essence that part was the really the only obstacle left for Pikmin.

*gives a stamp*


(meheheheh of course, even with Pikmin plausible to exist now, I've seen ways to now beat them in battle x.x BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!)

 

[Xiahou Dun]

Which would require eating, but.... no mouth....

You think that all Animals have mouths?

I've done no research whatsoever but off the top of my head...Jellyfish?

 

[UncleSam]

(meheheheh of course, even with Pikmin plausible to exist now, I've seen ways to now beat them in battle x.x BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!)

pikmin are fail, I'm just seeing if there's a plausible way to keep them functioning in RL with a light and dark cellular respiratory cycle combined.
... well now to play Soul Silver.

@Xiahow Dun - even I said that when talking to guest about it (it was a convo you won't find it in this thread)

 

[Sieguest]

You think that all Animals have mouths?

I've done no research whatsoever but off the top of my head...Jellyfish?

1. First statement is a bad assumption, one should know that most bipedal animals have mouths or something related to it. <.<

2.Pikmin don't even have those means either. Paralleling it to a jellyfish is a horrible parallel
http://www.chacha.com/question/how-do-jellyfish-eat-their-prey

The pikmin have NO means of injesting outside substances other than by maybe sucking it in, and even then, what opening they may have would be too small than to consume liquids or microorganisms, both of which will not suffice for a diet.

3. Sam we never talked about digestion in our convo, ours was strictly about the circulatory system.

 

[Nova9000]

pikmin are fail, I'm just seeing if there's a plausible way to keep them functioning in RL with a light and dark cellular respiratory cycle combined.
... well now to play Soul Silver.

Why are Pikmin fail? Elaborate on this plz.

And good stuff Beren...