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TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

adumbrodeus

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I'm going to have to agree with adumbrodeus-To fit young link's physical prowess we'd be dealing with a short-bow...and that won't help much as roy will practically be semi close enough to make a move...

When Roy does get in close...he can simply outrange,and outpower TL- Roy has had plenty of experience in swordsmanship and with those advantages...dealing with T/Y L wouldn't be too hard...even with YL's Wooden Shield...:)
The thing with him using a regular shortbow (not a composite shortbow like he does in Majora's mask, which again, is impossible, because it has the same problem as a regular shortbow, really difficult initial draw) is... he never actually has one.


So, if we give people equipment that they don't canonically have, again we might as well give Roy a machine gun and call it a day.
 

JOE!

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allrighty, Seeing teh info I dont think T/Y link will have an effective bow.

In it's place, I will give him a weapon not seen before in TDB:



we also have a question to present:

how old is Y/T Link?

how old is Roy? He is supposed to be kindof young
 

Spydr Enzo

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allrighty, Seeing teh info I dont think T/Y link will have an effective bow.

In it's place, I will give him a weapon not seen before in TDB:



we also have a question to present:

how old is Y/T Link?

how old is Roy? He is supposed to be kindof young
Young Link is canonically seven years younger than Adult Link, but his actual age was never specified. I always looked at it like this: Young Link doesn't look any older than 13, and Adult Link can't be younger than 18, so I'd say Young Link is anywhere from 11-13 years old.

Roy, I have no clue, but I would say he is at least over 20 years old.
 

adumbrodeus

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allrighty, Seeing teh info I dont think T/Y link will have an effective bow.

In it's place, I will give him a weapon not seen before in TDB:



we also have a question to present:

how old is Y/T Link?

how old is Roy? He is supposed to be kindof young
Y/T Link?!

Dude, they're very different. Toon Link is older, and much more physically capable. He also should be capable of using his composit bow. Young Link is a little kid.

So, yeah, they're different in very critical ways, as I said before, combining Tlink and Link is much more logical.


Anyway,

I'd say:

Young Link: 8-9

Roy: 18-21



BTW, hookshoot has the range problem like a shortbow would, except worse. It's also an improvized weapon, so it would lack the speed and power of the Bow (it's spring-loaded, unlike the bow which is muscle-powered). Also, the rate of fire's a lot slower. I highly doubt it could pierce Roy's armor. Doesn't make much of a difference.


edi: Strike that, turns out Tlink is actually the same age as young Link, at least in windwaker.

I guess it depends on if we wanna consider the earlier games "toon link".

Young Link is canonically seven years younger than Adult Link, but his actual age was never specified. I always looked at it like this: Young Link doesn't look any older than 13, and Adult Link can't be younger than 18, so I'd say Young Link is anywhere from 11-13 years old.

Roy, I have no clue, but I would say he is at least over 20 years old.

And is that a grappling hook that you gave Young Link?
Regular Link is about 16, not 18.


The weapon is the hookshot.
 

Spydr Enzo

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Y/T Link?!

Dude, they're very different. Toon Link is older, and much more physically capable. He also should be capable of using his composit bow. Young Link is a little kid.

So, yeah, they're different in very critical ways, as I said before, combining Tlink and Link is much more logical.


Anyway,

I'd say:

Young Link: 8-9

Roy: 18-21
Agreed with the first statement... Leave Toon Link out of this one. Roy is from Melee anyway, and so is Young Link, so I think Young Link is a better choice.

But Adumbrodeus, by saying Young Link is 8-9 years old, you are implying that Adult Link is 15-16 years old. I'm sure that can't be right...

Y/T Link?!


Regular Link is about 16, not 18.
Wait, where did you get this information...
 

Spydr Enzo

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HOLD ON just found out from the Twilight Princess guide that Link is 17 years old, thus making Young Link 10 years old. And it was never stated how much time passed since Ocarina to Twilight, so its safe too still assume that Young Link is 10.

But either way, it wouldn't matter, because Roy is still older.

Oh and sorry 'bout the double post...
 

adumbrodeus

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But Adumbrodeus, by saying Young Link is 8-9 years old, you are implying that Adult Link is 15-16 years old. I'm sure that can't be right...
Why?

Personally, I was always under the impression that he was 16.

16 is old enough to do what we're talking about, a litte young for a hero, but definately an adult by the standards of Link's time.


Wait, where did you get this information...
...

Actually, you're right. Double-checked, he's 19, and Young Link is 12.


Windwaker, they establish his age, and they establish his age as being the same age as Young Link when he recieves the Tunic.


Way to misremember *smacks self*

HOLD ON just found out from the Twilight Princess guide that Link is 17 years old, thus making Young Link 10 years old. And it was never stated how much time passed since Ocarina to Twilight, so its safe too still assume that Young Link is 10.

But either way, it wouldn't matter, because Roy is still older.

Oh and sorry 'bout the double post...
Nah, that's in TP, he's older in OoT.
 

JOE!

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so, T/Y link is 12ish, that gives us a nice idea of what his build should be

and heres a look at roy for his Armor:



Like Marth, he only has chest/shoulder armor

another note: what sword should Y/T Link have? he has a variety to choose from from Majora's mask and WW...
 

Lovely

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♣ Roy in his lord level is a much deadlier Brawler than Y/T Link, but if it's in his normal level, then I don't think so. ♥
 

uhmuzing

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♣ Roy in his lord level is a much deadlier Brawler than Y/T Link, but if it's in his normal level, then I don't think so. ♥
Well, that's sort of like saying in the Diddy/Lucario match that Lucario would be stronger if his level was higher. I don't think it matters much if they're are "low-leveled" or "high-leveled." If its because he looks different, we've already got the pic of how he's dressed for this battle.

What would change between his levels?
 

Lovely

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Well, that's sort of like saying in the Diddy/Lucario match that Lucario would be stronger if his level was higher. I don't think it matters much if they're are "low-leveled" or "high-leveled." If its because he looks different, we've already got the pic of how he's dressed for this battle.

What would change between his levels?
♣ Well, yea, that's what happen in all RPG games, you can't do much of anything in a low level, but higher up you can beat anyone with ease or do amazing attacks that you couldn't able to perform. Also Roy will wield the Sword of Seals in his Master Lord level, the strongest sword in his game, I'm pretty sure that you know how strong the Sword of Seals is since that was the sword that Roy used in Smash Deluxe. ♥
 

uhmuzing

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♣ Well, yea, that's what happen in all RPG games, you can't do much of anything in a low level, but higher up you can beat anyone with ease or do amazing attacks that you couldn't able to perform. Also Roy will wield the Sword of Seals in his Master Lord level, the strongest sword in his game, I'm pretty sure that you know how strong the Sword of Seals is since that was the sword that Roy used in Smash Deluxe. ♥
Hmmm.... good to know. I was just saying that I think we're using the above pic for this battle, so it wouldn't matter if that was his first or second class or whatevs. The Sword of Seals is stronger than Young Link's sword (which by the way, what sword is Link using?) and coupled with Roy's more impressive power, puts Link at a fairly large disadvantage. Ofcourse, Link is fairly acrobatic and fast at swordplay, but my reasoning has been well-argued against. :)
 

Darkshadow7827

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Well, the way I see it, if link can't use his bow due to a lack of strength, then the match is in roy's favor. More effective armor, better sword skill, more range (arm length due to older age +sword length), and more strength. Unless Y/T link has any range, I don't see him winning.

Does it really require that much strength to use a bow? I've never used one, so I don't know. Also, I heard the feathers on the arrow can give you something similar to paper cuts... That true?
 

JOE!

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he has these two bad-boys in MM, as well as his Kokiri sword

he then can get the master sword in WW
 

adumbrodeus

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he has these two bad-boys in MM, as well as his Kokiri sword

he then can get the master sword in WW
Ok, Gileded sword is fine, but it still has the range issues that the kokiri sword has (but to a slightly lesser extent). He's also gonna be swinging it slower.


Of course Toon Link got the master sword, he also got it in Link's Awakening, Oracle of Seasons, Oracle of Ages, and many other games.

Yes, the pre-modern Link (as were all the handheld incarnations so far), is Toon Link, animation style just doesn't fit OOT old Link and TP Link.
 

uhmuzing

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I'm not sure Roy would be swinging his sword much faster than Young Link. Yes, he's stronger than Link, but his sword is justly heavier and larger. He's going to be swinging it faster, yes, but Link seems capable of moderate speed when handling a blade. While not AS experienced as Roy, Link is no slouch.

EDIT: Oh, and those weights seem about what I expected. :)
 

JOE!

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lets see...Link here is 12, and kind of well built for a 12 year old, and short-ish as well.

Id say he's around like...4'7-8" maybe 120lbs

Roy should be about 5'6-7" and 160ish lbs
 

uhmuzing

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About the hookshot. Its not quite as useful as the bow distance wise, only capable of firng a fourth or fifth of the bow's would-be distance. However, the Hookshot can fire a range of around ten feet or so and do so at a very fast velocity. Link can also re-fire the hookshot faster than the bow, because it comes back to him at the same speed at which it fires. Young Link can hinder Roy's progress by using this. Yes, he shouldn't use this if Roy is five feet or closer, but he has multiple opportunities to create an opening before-hand.

Let's not forget that hookshot is also sharp and could possibly damage roy's armor depending on how fast it fires. Realistically, the hookshot is very capable of landing a mortal injury on Roy. A blow to the torso will suffice, and even if Roy dodges it, the hookshot returns to Link much faster than Roy can approach YLink. Link could say maybe get in three or four shots before Roy's close-by, partly because the closer Roy gets and the faster he approaches, the harder it would be for him to avoid the hookshot.

Before the argument arrises, the hookshot is an ingeniously designed mechanical weapon and is light enough for Link to use. :) It proves to offer a wide and unusual range of versatility to Young Link.
 

smashbot226

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Young Link also has a Slingshot. In the right hands, it could prove to be incredibly deadly. Young Link is a forest-raised hero in training that probably has YEARS of training behind it.

Anyone who watches "The Deadliest Warrior" can agree that the IRA's slingshot OBLITERATED a foe's head. While inaccurate IRL, it can still one-shot kill if Young Link aims it right.

Has anybody ELSE taken into effect that Young Link could use BOMBS?
 

uhmuzing

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You have a good point, but i think the only weapon he's ALLOWED to bring is the hookshot. Just one weapon, but it's a good one.
 

adumbrodeus

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I'm not sure Roy would be swinging his sword much faster than Young Link. Yes, he's stronger than Link, but his sword is justly heavier and larger. He's going to be swinging it faster, yes, but Link seems capable of moderate speed when handling a blade. While not AS experienced as Roy, Link is no slouch.

EDIT: Oh, and those weights seem about what I expected. :)
It's rather long and ackward for Young Link (especially if we're using the guilded sword), combined with the lack of expirience that should make Roy able to swing it faster.


About the hookshot. Its not quite as useful as the bow distance wise, only capable of firng a fourth or fifth of the bow's would-be distance. However, the Hookshot can fire a range of around ten feet or so and do so at a very fast velocity. Link can also re-fire the hookshot faster than the bow, because it comes back to him at the same speed at which it fires. Young Link can hinder Roy's progress by using this. Yes, he shouldn't use this if Roy is five feet or closer, but he has multiple opportunities to create an opening before-hand.

Let's not forget that hookshot is also sharp and could possibly damage roy's armor depending on how fast it fires. Realistically, the hookshot is very capable of landing a mortal injury on Roy. A blow to the torso will suffice, and even if Roy dodges it, the hookshot returns to Link much faster than Roy can approach YLink. Link could say maybe get in three or four shots before Roy's close-by, partly because the closer Roy gets and the faster he approaches, the harder it would be for him to avoid the hookshot.

Before the argument arrises, the hookshot is an ingeniously designed mechanical weapon and is light enough for Link to use. :) It proves to offer a wide and unusual range of versatility to Young Link.
I already agreed with the hookshot.

The thing is, it's only spring-loaded, it's meant more as a climbing tool then a weapon.

There's no physical way it's gonna pierce Roy's armor, period, so his best bet is the legs. You'd need a specially designed head (think certain arrow-heads) AND it would need to be able to put out a lot of force, a mechanism that small just isn't capable. He's also not gonna get the firing rate of a bow, from about 10 feet, I'd give him one shot prior to melee range.


No, it's not gonna return faster then Roy can run, a mechanism like that would need either be too large for him to handle or requires modern technology, because Roy's effective range is about 4 feet. Almost double the distance, not gonna happen.


Young Link also has a Slingshot. In the right hands, it could prove to be incredibly deadly. Young Link is a forest-raised hero in training that probably has YEARS of training behind it.

Anyone who watches "The Deadliest Warrior" can agree that the IRA's slingshot OBLITERATED a foe's head. While inaccurate IRL, it can still one-shot kill if Young Link aims it right.

Has anybody ELSE taken into effect that Young Link could use BOMBS?
We talked about it, the inaccuracy is a large problem, plus it doesn't have a very large effective range.

The problem is that we're talking about something that frankly doesn't actually exist, a pre-vulcanized rubber slingshot (slings were used, but not slingshots). Since Link's world is obviously pre-vulcanized rubber. Yes, it IS a slingshot, not a sling (slings are basically pouches with a stone in it, and a rope attached, you spin the sling to gather energy, then let it go, slingshots are basically shaped like a tuning fork with rubber between, you put a pellet the rubber, draw it, then release it). Basically, slingshots are only confirmed to have existed after vulcanized rubber, so we'll have to talk about what they could do using inferior materials (sinew, natural rubber).


Max range would probably be about 90 feet (about 30 meters), but accuracy would be extremely poor (especially since it's only a single banded slingshot). It also probably wouldn't be able to do much at that range, since it's a very small band, and small-banded slingshots are notable for losing power and accuracy very early. However, it's a heck of a lot more accurate when close.

Optimal range is probably about 10 meters which is about 32 feet, with vulcanized rubber, now cut the accuracy further for inferior materials and we're looking at Link's sling.

That's not a very large effective range.


Now, why did I discuss this in meters? Because I figure it's time to talk about Roy's speed. This also plays into the hookshot issue.


Note that a 100 meter dash can be run in considerably less then 10 seconds, and I've personally run it at around 12 (yes, I sucked at it, I was a lot better at the 200, so sue me). Roy's in good physical condition, granted he's got the armor and sword, but that should only slow him to around 13 second equivalent.

So we're dealing with the equivalent of him crossing 10 metersin about 1.3 seconds. Since the time isn't evenly distributed (the start-up takes longest) it's probably be closer to 2 seconds.

Realistically, that's not much. It will not take Roy long to reach Young Link, and since the slingshot requires both hands, he'll need time to pull out his sword, so he's definitely gonna switch to the hootshot, quickly. If he takes time to aim well enough to stand a chance to hit with the already inaccurate weapon, that leaves him with even fewer shots.


Slingshot would rarely kill with a lucky shot, but in generally it's main purpose is to force an approach.


Edit: Furthermore, this also illustrates that he won't get many attacks off with the hookshot either.



Yea, we discussed bombs. They don't help much.


You have a good point, but i think the only weapon he's ALLOWED to bring is the hookshot. Just one weapon, but it's a good one.
Slingshot's good, it's very light and won't hinder him much, bombs are probably not a good idea, if for no other reason, encumbrance.
 

Landry

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Roy's got armor, TL has a tunic. Roy's got more range on his sword, TL's got projectiles that Roy is fast enough to dodge. I'd take Roy.
 

Sonic on the Rocks

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Since nobody answered my question, are we using Toon Link or Young Link?
Toon Link IS stronger than Young Link, so he should be able to actually use his bow. He has plenty of sword experience, and he can parry sword strikes.

Basically, I just wish Young Link could use the Fierce Diety Mask. It would make this alot easier.
 

adumbrodeus

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Since nobody answered my question, are we using Toon Link or Young Link?
Toon Link IS stronger than Young Link, so he should be able to actually use his bow. He has plenty of sword experience, and he can parry sword strikes.

Basically, I just wish Young Link could use the Fierce Diety Mask. It would make this alot easier.
It was initially young link, then it sort of got combined, which just about everyone is disagreeing with. We've sort of collectively stuck to Young Link.


Just remember, the reason that Toon Link can use his bow is because classic Link is also Toon Link, modern Toon Link is a little kid too....

Why to they have to make every Zelda bow a composite bow except for in the classic Zelda? Seriously, it's annoying. If they were regular bows, he could use them to a degree, and shortbows he could use well.


Edit: Minish's cap's bow isn't a composite bow! Finally, we get a bow that would be legal.

:) Very well. I suppose my arguments lack a bit in accuracy. I concede this to Roy.
+20 cool points.

A person on smashboards admitting when they're wrong, it's a sign of the apocalypse!
 

sammy p

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i say toon link! bombs hookshot(or arrows) and sword.
roy just has sword...
toon link is a heck of a lot faster(i think) and as my good friend once sayd "speed is everything"
wats power have if you cant hit the faster character??

so i say toon link wins..
and is this only for BRAWL characters?? just wondering.. cuz roy DEFINATLY is not a brawl characters:laugh:
because the title IS deadliest BRAWLER
mabey i just didnt read everything but ya no
 

uhmuzing

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+20 cool points.

A person on smashboards admitting when they're wrong, it's a sign of the apocalypse!
:laugh: What can I say - I've named every plus for YLInk I can think of, some of which aren't accurate, and Roy's still got this. No wonder you're a debater. :laugh:
 

adumbrodeus

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Does it really require that much strength to use a bow? I've never used one, so I don't know. Also, I heard the feathers on the arrow can give you something similar to paper cuts... That true?
Depends on the Bow, the larger the bow, the more difficult to draw, but certain bows break that....

Meet the composite bow!



Now compare to a normal bow:




What you'll notice with the normal bow is that the angle increases steadily as it gets further from the middle. On the other hand bow has an area, close to the string, where the angle flattens out.

Basically, this causes the normal bow to require less strength for the initial draw, but less strength = less power when released.

On the other hand, the composite bow's angle makes it much more difficult to draw, especially in the beginning. This causes it to store a lot more force then a normal bow of about equal size. The trade-off of course is that it requires a great deal more strength to draw.

Now look at the fairy's bow (from OOT):



And the Hero's bow (from Majora's mask):




Both of them feature a major decrease in the angle near the location where the strings are. This immediately pegs them as composite bows, which means they require too much arm strength for a kid to draw basically at all.


BTW: Composite bows are called such because they use multiple materials in their construction. This is because woods generally used in bows do not have the flexibility to handle the composite bow's shape. It is possible to build a bow that doesn't have the shape out of a composite bow's materials but it wouldn't derive any benefits. Conversly it's possible to make a composite bow out of normal materials, but it would be just as hard to draw and would break when fully drawn.


i say toon link! bombs hookshot(or arrows) and sword.
roy just has sword...
toon link is a heck of a lot faster(i think) and as my good friend once sayd "speed is everything"
wats power have if you cant hit the faster character??

so i say toon link wins..
and is this only for BRAWL characters?? just wondering.. cuz roy DEFINATLY is not a brawl characters:laugh:
because the title IS deadliest BRAWLER
mabey i just didnt read everything but ya no
We've sort of collectively decided that Toon Link and Young Link are too different to be talked about in the same match-up.

We can talk about Toon Link later, but I suspect that we'll concentrate on the classic version because Modern Toon Link has a lot of the same issues as Young Link.


:laugh: What can I say - I've named every plus for YLInk I can think of, some of which aren't accurate, and Roy's still got this. No wonder you're a debater. :laugh:
Thanks, I appreciate the props.
 

smashbot226

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i say toon link! bombs hookshot(or arrows) and sword.
roy just has sword...
toon link is a heck of a lot faster(i think) and as my good friend once sayd "speed is everything"
wats power have if you cant hit the faster character??
That's an inaccurate statement. What good can a speed character do against a defensive character? Scratch him until he dies?

so i say toon link wins..
and is this only for BRAWL characters?? just wondering.. cuz roy DEFINATLY is not a brawl characters:laugh:
because the title IS deadliest BRAWLER
mabey i just didnt read everything but ya no
IMHO this is Young Link Vs. Roy, as this is probably considered the "Melee Special #1."

Save Toon Link for Meta Knight!
 

JOE!

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adumbrodeus

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Toon Link and Young link would essentially be the same person in RL, so thats why theyve been consolidated.
...

Not at all, Toon Link is a representation of a specific subset of Links, which Young Link is NOT included in. Young Link himself is an individual Link that only existed in two games.

You could say that about regular Link, who represents all Link incarnations, but not Toon Link or Young Link.


You also gotta remember that, as I said before, Classic Link is also Toon Link.

Also, young link has an established age, whereas Toon Link in Windwaker/PH is the only one that does, that causes some issues.



Now, The hookshot I can see being a bit stronger than people have been giving credit. If its made to be a climbing tool, the thing has to have some piercing power to latch into things, then stay pierced deep enough to support a weight.

If he hits Roy in an unarmored area (not shoulders/chest) it should mess him up. The problem would be accuracy.

Now, Are we gonna give Link his Gilded or Master Sword?
Again, we gotta remember what the item is physically capable of. It doesn't have a very sharp point, even in game it isn't capable of piecing rocks or metal. It's used mainly on tree, specific types of grating (which it can fit into) and the like.

Even if it did in-game, with real-life physics, the idea of it breaking through solid rock, or even sufficiently thick wood is ridiculous. Certainly not platemail.

Young Link's best weapon is the Gilded sword. Give him that.
 

JOE!

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K, Gilded sword it is.

And who said anything about piercing stone/metal?

Link's SWORDS couldnt do that. all it needs to do is go through flesh, which is no problem for something that can go into a tree
 

adumbrodeus

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K, Gilded sword it is.

And who said anything about piercing stone/metal?

Link's SWORDS couldnt do that. all it needs to do is go through flesh, which is no problem for something that can go into a tree
Roy has armor on his center of mass, remember? That was the point there.
 
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