TAKE THAT! Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney smashes the prosecution!

[Wyoming]

With what we know, should Capcom get a character, it is Resident Evil or Ace Attorney. Both have strong cases, and depends how Nintendo view it. Both appeal to different people.

Monster Hunter is out for sure. As TPC points out, it does not seem to be a Sakurai thing to do to "withhold" content for DLC. Even if Capcom wanted this, I doubt they would have put MH content in the base roster then. But what's more damning is the creators prioritizing the monsters as their mascots and main draw.

DMC is very unlikely. Even if you take Walker's words with a grain of salt for whatever reason, the fact that Capcom decided to port DMC1 onto the Switch AFTER that interview tells me they are gauging Nintendo fan interest in the series first. That's good for a pass 2, but for this pass that's too late.

Amaterasu is an awesome character and she would been very unique, bringing along an interesting art style in the process. But she does fall behind Phoenix in demand and it's not like he's lacking in unique mechanics or features himself. A visual novel stage would be a series first.

Morrigan might be a sleeper pick due to Capcom putting Darkstalkers in everything, but it isn't Capcom's call to make unlike her other appearances and her design may not be deemed too appropriate for Smash anyway.

Now I interrupt this conversation for this piece of brilliance:

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxggbBvmF38]U

 

[fogbadge]

her design may not be deemed too appropriate for Smash anyway.

wasnt that true of that other creepy lady we already have?

 

[Wyoming]

wasnt that true of that other creepy lady we already have?

Bayonetta was toned down. For Morrigan you would have to cover her up more. Give her a bit of a re-design.

They had to remove Corrin's thighs so yeah

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Finally, in regards to fan demand in the Smash community... I obviously can't link every poll I've ever seen, but in most of them, Phoenix was the most requested Capcom character, despite not dominating any polls. I feel like that contributes, as you pointed out, to a bigger overlap between the active Smash supporters and the casual "silent majority".

Sakurai stated that he came up with Incineroar's moveset based off of the concept art given to him. It was a similar case with Greninja. In this case, the characters had finalized designs and nothing more, hence my referring to them as incomplete. The extent of the Miis combativeness were relatively light, and compared to the focus on fighting in Smash they'd never been in any serious fighting roles (as far as I'm aware).

Second, a large reason Smash fans tend to misunderstand the direction of speculation (see: Vergeben and Sakurai's commentary on Castlevania's popularity in the ballot when Castlevania never topped any fan polls) is that they believe too much in fan polls. The only reason I cite the Randomized Reddit Tourney is that it got the most amount of votes compared to any other fan poll, so we can assume it's closer the actual ballot results via the Law of Large Numbers.

Phoenix's popularity in fan polls speaks solely to his popularity in the core Smash fanbase, and is not indicative of any wider popularity. Granted, core fanbase popularity is quite a good thing given Banjo's presence, but we'll see if Phoenix's influence pays off or not.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Sakurai stated that he came up with Incineroar's moveset based off of the concept art given to him. It was a similar case with Greninja. In this case, the characters had finalized designs and nothing more, hence my referring to them as incomplete. The extent of the Miis combativeness were relatively light, and compared to the focus on fighting in Smash they'd never been in any serious fighting roles (as far as I'm aware).

Second, a large reason Smash fans tend to misunderstand the direction of speculation (see: Vergeben and Sakurai's commentary on Castlevania's popularity in the ballot when Castlevania never topped any fan polls) is that they believe too much in fan polls. The only reason I cite the Randomized Reddit Tourney is that it got the most amount of votes compared to any other fan poll, so we can assume it's closer the actual ballot results via the Law of Large Numbers.

Phoenix's popularity in fan polls speaks solely to his popularity in the core Smash fanbase, and is not indicative of any wider popularity. Granted, core fanbase popularity is quite a good thing given Banjo's presence, but we'll see if Phoenix's influence pays off or not.

Hmm, let me rephrase my statement on Incineroar: while work on him certainly began based on concept art, not everything in his moveset is an extrapolation. Which means that, as the Pokémon team got a clearer idea of what Incineroar did in-game, they probably relayed that to Sakurai. This is very likely if you consider that SM released in 2016 - the same year Sakurai confirmed he was working on "a new project". So while we have all-original moves, like his side special, we also have the Lariat and his Final Smash, which are based on Sun and Moon. Another example of Sakurai mixing these original mechanics with new info obtained from developers would be Joker, who has a few original moves but also his grappling hook, which apparently will be given more emphasis in P5R.

The Miis do have some fighting roles (a few Streetpass games and Miitopia), but it would admittedly be hard to draw from just one source. And in their case, ignoring their source material to make them the "custom player avatar characters" is arguably just as true to their nature.

Finally, when I said that about fan polls, my argument was exactly his popularity in the core Smash fanbase - nothing more. I said that because people tend to think he isn't popular among the core fans, when this clearly isn't the case. It was less of an argument in itself and more of an addition to what you had already said about him being popular both among core and casual audiences.

 

[fogbadge]

Bayonetta was toned down. For Morrigan you would have to cover her up more. Give her a bit of a re-design.

They had to remove Corrin's thighs so yeah

so go phoenix? the rest of the capcom crew got nothing on you

 

[Looma]

I love Morrigan to death but I'm not sure how I'd feel about a Smash appearance. It'd feel kinda dirty to take the Vs. series' own Captain Falcon (even though Darkstalkers remixes are something I greatly desire).

Also, Resident Evil and Ace Attorney are definitely likely frontrunners but I wouldn't be sleeping on Ghosts 'n Goblins so much. Sales aren't the be-all end-all and it's a classic series with years of seniority over just about everything else Capcom has.

 

[Arctiq]

I love Morrigan to death but I'm not sure how I'd feel about a Smash appearance. It'd feel kinda dirty to take the Vs. series' own Captain Falcon (even though Darkstalkers remixes are something I greatly desire).

Also, Resident Evil and Ace Attorney are definitely likely frontrunners but I wouldn't be sleeping on Ghosts 'n Goblins so much. Sales aren't the be-all end-all and it's a classic series with years of seniority over just about everything else Capcom has.

I think if we got another Smash game, the Ghost 'n Goblins guy should be the new classic character. His moveset would be similar to Simon, but I think he would be a fun and silly character

 

[Wyoming]

Ghosts and Goblins seems more of a base roster pick, yeah. Not too sure how it would do as a DLC pack.

In other news: Capcom have an official discord and they added an Ace Attorney news channel. The scent of TGS is in the air.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I love Morrigan to death but I'm not sure how I'd feel about a Smash appearance. It'd feel kinda dirty to take the Vs. series' own Captain Falcon (even though Darkstalkers remixes are something I greatly desire).

Also, Resident Evil and Ace Attorney are definitely likely frontrunners but I wouldn't be sleeping on Ghosts 'n Goblins so much. Sales aren't the be-all end-all and it's a classic series with years of seniority over just about everything else Capcom has.

Morrigan pretty much showed up nearly everywhere at this point, so it's only logical that she shows up in here eventually. That being said, I think her look's considered iconic enough that changing it would annoy more than just the fans. I mean, Shantae and Risky's spirits managed to get in intact, and they're even skimpier (while EVA couldn't get past the radar). Plus Morrigan uses bats, all the easier to cover up her transformations with, and they can stick with her safer outfits.

But yeah, folks do still care about GnG, especially since there's TWO indie-made successors for it.

 

[fogbadge]

In other news: Capcom have an official discord and they added an Ace Attorney news channel. The scent of TGS is in the air.

all i can smell are smash rumours that have gone off

 

[Leotsune]

We are pretty confident we WILL get something Ace Attorney related in the next few months so here's my prediction from "most likely" to "not gonna happen".

1.- AA trilogy 2, or whatever the name is, we already have the original trilogy on every console, so how can they not give us the rest of the history so far? (even though these games aren't favorites of the community).

2.- Smash, I think is more possible than AA7, If you compare the arguments in favor of both Phoenix in Smash and AA7 you'll see that there's more merit into putting Phoenix in Smash before making AA7, Smash means exposure and I'm 100% there will be a huge amount of people who will try the games just because a character of those games made it into Smash.

3.- AA7, I can't see it happening yet, the last 2 mainline games weren't that well received, and even then the game would only be for the core fanbase, the people who just got into the series with the trilogy will be heavily confused about what's going on, the rest of the trilogy should be priority.

4.- DGS / DGS2, As much as I would love to see these games officialy released outside of Japan, I don't think is ever gonna happen, and it hurts, more than you guys can imagine.
I'll purchase DGS 2 from japan and play it when the fan translation is done, I've already played DGS and its an absulute masterpiece, but the game has a sequel and let me tell you, its for a reason this game has a sequel.

 

[Curious Villager]

Hey, just wanted to drop by to say that I caught your thread received exactly 66,666 views, neato.

Hopefully we will be getting more Ace Attorney news in the upcoming TGS. I'm ready for AA7.

 

[3BitSaurus]

We are pretty confident we WILL get something Ace Attorney related in the next few months so here's my prediction from "most likely" to "not gonna happen".

1.- AA trilogy 2, or whatever the name is, we already have the original trilogy on every console, so how can they not give us the rest of the history so far? (even though these games aren't favorites of the community).

2.- Smash, I think is more possible than AA7, If you compare the arguments in favor of both Phoenix in Smash and AA7 you'll see that there's more merit into putting Phoenix in Smash before making AA7, Smash means exposure and I'm 100% there will be a huge amount of people who will try the games just because a character of those games made it into Smash.

3.- AA7, I can't see it happening yet, the last 2 mainline games weren't that well received, and even then the game would only be for the core fanbase, the people who just got into the series with the trilogy will be heavily confused about what's going on, the rest of the trilogy should be priority.

4.- DGS / DGS2, As much as I would love to see these games officialy released outside of Japan, I don't think is ever gonna happen, and it hurts, more than you guys can imagine.
I'll purchase DGS 2 from japan and play it when the fan translation is done, I've already played DGS and its an absulute masterpiece, but the game has a sequel and let me tell you, its for a reason this game has a sequel.

Not sure when we'd get something though. TGS doesn't seem likely for Smash, so maybe AA Trilogy 2 at TGS and then Smash at the Fall Direct? You never know...

 

[GoodGrief741]

Hey, just wanted to drop by to say that I caught your thread received exactly 66,666 views, neato.
View attachment 234786

Hopefully we will be getting more Ace Attorney news in the upcoming TGS. I'm ready for AA7.

Oh Satan, give us what we covet so!

(Hell, if the miracle never happen then we might as well ask the other guy.)

 

[3BitSaurus]

Oh Satan, give us what we covet so!

(Hell, if the miracle never happen then we might as well ask the other guy.)

Uh... I mean, Maya channels spirits, so I think demons might be outside of her realm of expertise. Or just outside the realm in general.

If Phoenix is announced after this, followed by Doom Slayer, I will laugh my *** off.

 

[fogbadge]

well this has taken a turn

 

[TheYungLink]

well this has taken a turn

A turnabout, if you will.

 

[fogbadge]

A turnabout, if you will.

touche

 

[3BitSaurus]

For some reason, bad jokes seem to be an aquired taste on this thread. Maybe the copious amount of ham from the series is starting to take its toll on our health.

In fact, I was hoping to come up with a joke while I was writing this post...

Spoiler

I didn't.

 

[THE SLOTH]

If we don't get AA7 or Phoenix in Smash, I'm at least hoping for a spin-off. One that doesn't get region-locked. Investigations and (from what I've heard, haven't played/seen it yet) DGS are both pretty good, so Capcom has shown they can make promising AA spin-offs.

Uh... I mean, Maya channels spirits, so I think demons might be outside of her realm of expertise. Or just outside the realm in general.

If Phoenix is announced after this, followed by Doom Slayer, I will laugh my *** off.

Counterpoint: Dahlia. Maybe she isn't a literal demon, but still...

 

[Hadokeyblade]

If we DID get another spin off I'm pretty sure it would end up being Japan only again, because this series only does well when it's main series.

 

[Wyoming]

Shame as Investigations 2 is the best game of the series. Always surprised me that an Edgeworth centric game could not sustain itself.

Maybe how lacklustre Investigations 1 was is the main cause?

 

[THE SLOTH]

Shame as Investigations 2 is the best game of the series. Always surprised me that an Edgeworth centric game could not sustain itself.

Maybe how lacklustre Investigations 1 was is the main cause?

I haven't exactly done any research, but my current theory from what I've heard is that Investigations 1 didn't do too hot in the States, and the sequel was developed so late into the DS's life that they didn't bother localizing it, thinking it wouldn't be worth the time and money considering how poorly 1 did in other territories.

Man, now I kinda wish that, if we DO get an AA New Trilogy game, they include Investigations 1, and a localized Investigations 2, either that or just use the fan-translation if possible. Remastering the sprites to match the art of the remastered Original Trilogy might not make that "worth it" for Capcom, though, among other reasons.

 

[Northadox]

Saw a crappy 4chan leak featuring Phoenix Wright floating around. A lot of it does sound pretty plausible but people can just make this junk up on the fly. Doubt that any of this is real but it's fun to think about.

Spoiler: Crappy 4chan leak

saw an early investors screening for the direct which was screened at nintendo of europe, frankfurt. here's what i know. screencap this post anons

>September 19th, 2019
>30 min. direct, focuses on Nintendo Switch Online

>direct starts off with yoshiaki koizumi introducing us to the direct, etc.

>passes it over to shinya takahashi, who goes onto introduce a new service coming to nintendo switch online: Nintendo&Me

>Nintendo&Me is a music service coming to the app where you'll be able to listen to a selection of nintendo game osts. the app can be accessed via the nintendo switch online app on mobile or downloaded from the eShop on switch.

>there'll be 20 albums to start off with, more are added weekly. additionally, compatible games within your Switch Library will have their soundtracks added under the tab "Linked Soundtracks" within the app. launches september 26th, 2019

>this alone takes like 3 minutes of the entire direct

>next, takahashi mentions how it's been a year since the launch of NES online and how happy they are that nintendo switch online users are enjoying the vast selection of NES games. this leads into SNES online which is exactly what it sounds like

>at launch, SNES online will have F-ZERO, Super Mario All-Stars, Kirby Super Star, Yoshi's Island and Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past, with 3 more being added monthly in a similar fashion to NES online. unlike NES online, however, SNES online will be a paid application, costing around $1.99 USD

>passes it back to koizumi who thanks takahashi for his time. koizumi introduces new titles coming to the nintendo switch

>a new Dr. Mario game is announced which introduces new viruses from the mobile game. not the biggest dr. mario fan so i'm unsure if it's a remaster of the original with new content, a port of the mobile game, or what. they showed multiple Dr.'s besides mario (peach and luigi are the ones i can recall)

>banjo news update is dropped but just like joker it's only an announcement of an announcement. this time we get an exact date of the future announcement, promising a fall update video September 23rd

>new paper mario game! partners are added (trailer introduces a new chain chomp partner named Chompy, he's a yellow chain chomp with freckles and a propeller hat). stickers are also a thing but have their concept reworked to function more like the spell items in paper mario 64 where they can be summoned as attacks with flashy animations. the plot of the game revolves around mario saving a town from drippy ink creatures (implied to be zombies of some sort). working title is "Paper Mario for Nintendo Switch" and releases Q2 2020.

>link's awakening info is shown but it's stuff we already knew from the original game so i'm going to skip over it. dampe's dungeon maker has an online leaderboard so that's cool i guess. shows off amiibo functionality but we knew that already as well

>koizumi talks to build up the next reveal: F-ZERO makes a return onto the switch. the trailer is animated. it's a half racer, half beat em up. captain falcon is a racer by day, hero by night who hides his identity. night levels captain falcon beats up burglers and appears to draw more from his smash incarnation. releases Q3 2019, title is "F-ZERO: LET'S GO!"

>koizumi then turns to tatsuya minami, who presents to us bayonetta 3. i don't give a **** about bayonetta so everything they talked about was a blur to me. it just looked like the same thing. releases in 2020 there's no exact date

>goes back to koizumi, they have one more announcement to make.

>CG courtroom is in session. bowser is the defendant, phoenix wright is defending his client, mario. there's actual text in this trailer, the judge is saying that bowser is being accused of kidnapping. he looks surprised as the judge says this, and the prosecutor is Bowser Jr. (and the Koopalings). bowser jr. starts speaking gibberish, phoenix thinks to himself that he can't understand what they're saying, screams objection, smash trailer. one of his taunts has the medium girl from the first game appear, side smash is objection, forward air is a statue(?), final smash is that 4 locks appear on the opponent and every time phoenix hits them, a lock goes down. once the locks reach zero, the opponent gets instantly KOed. super smash bros ultimate x phoenix wright.

 

[Aeon_Shadow]

Interesting, will keep a lookout then. Is Sept 19 when Tokyo Game Show is happening?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

>highly detailed "leak"
Yeah, no.

It's near-impossible to find any useful text leaks on image boards.

 

[Wyoming]

Too detailed. Has new F-Zero on it.

Shame. A traditional Paper Mario and a new F-Zero are my two biggest Nintendo wants. If those happened followed by a Phoenix I'd literally **** my pants.

 

[Arctiq]

That leak had me until F-Zero. The concept sounds stupid.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Saw a crappy 4chan leak featuring Phoenix Wright floating around. A lot of it does sound pretty plausible but people can just make this junk up on the fly. Doubt that any of this is real but it's fun to think about.

Spoiler: Crappy 4chan leak

saw an early investors screening for the direct which was screened at nintendo of europe, frankfurt. here's what i know. screencap this post anons

>September 19th, 2019
>30 min. direct, focuses on Nintendo Switch Online

>direct starts off with yoshiaki koizumi introducing us to the direct, etc.

>passes it over to shinya takahashi, who goes onto introduce a new service coming to nintendo switch online: Nintendo&Me

>Nintendo&Me is a music service coming to the app where you'll be able to listen to a selection of nintendo game osts. the app can be accessed via the nintendo switch online app on mobile or downloaded from the eShop on switch.

>there'll be 20 albums to start off with, more are added weekly. additionally, compatible games within your Switch Library will have their soundtracks added under the tab "Linked Soundtracks" within the app. launches september 26th, 2019

>this alone takes like 3 minutes of the entire direct

>next, takahashi mentions how it's been a year since the launch of NES online and how happy they are that nintendo switch online users are enjoying the vast selection of NES games. this leads into SNES online which is exactly what it sounds like

>at launch, SNES online will have F-ZERO, Super Mario All-Stars, Kirby Super Star, Yoshi's Island and Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past, with 3 more being added monthly in a similar fashion to NES online. unlike NES online, however, SNES online will be a paid application, costing around $1.99 USD

>passes it back to koizumi who thanks takahashi for his time. koizumi introduces new titles coming to the nintendo switch

>a new Dr. Mario game is announced which introduces new viruses from the mobile game. not the biggest dr. mario fan so i'm unsure if it's a remaster of the original with new content, a port of the mobile game, or what. they showed multiple Dr.'s besides mario (peach and luigi are the ones i can recall)

>banjo news update is dropped but just like joker it's only an announcement of an announcement. this time we get an exact date of the future announcement, promising a fall update video September 23rd

>new paper mario game! partners are added (trailer introduces a new chain chomp partner named Chompy, he's a yellow chain chomp with freckles and a propeller hat). stickers are also a thing but have their concept reworked to function more like the spell items in paper mario 64 where they can be summoned as attacks with flashy animations. the plot of the game revolves around mario saving a town from drippy ink creatures (implied to be zombies of some sort). working title is "Paper Mario for Nintendo Switch" and releases Q2 2020.

>link's awakening info is shown but it's stuff we already knew from the original game so i'm going to skip over it. dampe's dungeon maker has an online leaderboard so that's cool i guess. shows off amiibo functionality but we knew that already as well

>koizumi talks to build up the next reveal: F-ZERO makes a return onto the switch. the trailer is animated. it's a half racer, half beat em up. captain falcon is a racer by day, hero by night who hides his identity. night levels captain falcon beats up burglers and appears to draw more from his smash incarnation. releases Q3 2019, title is "F-ZERO: LET'S GO!"

>koizumi then turns to tatsuya minami, who presents to us bayonetta 3. i don't give a **** about bayonetta so everything they talked about was a blur to me. it just looked like the same thing. releases in 2020 there's no exact date

>goes back to koizumi, they have one more announcement to make.

>CG courtroom is in session. bowser is the defendant, phoenix wright is defending his client, mario. there's actual text in this trailer, the judge is saying that bowser is being accused of kidnapping. he looks surprised as the judge says this, and the prosecutor is Bowser Jr. (and the Koopalings). bowser jr. starts speaking gibberish, phoenix thinks to himself that he can't understand what they're saying, screams objection, smash trailer. one of his taunts has the medium girl from the first game appear, side smash is objection, forward air is a statue(?), final smash is that 4 locks appear on the opponent and every time phoenix hits them, a lock goes down. once the locks reach zero, the opponent gets instantly KOed. super smash bros ultimate x phoenix wright.

Obviously fake for many reasons but what gets me is this part. 'bowser is the defendant, phoenix wright is defending his client, mario.' Who's the defendant, Bowser or Mario? Phoenix's client would obviously be the defendant. If they can't get that right then they got some balls to attempt to fake leak.

Spoiler: AA6 Spoilers

Yes I know Phoenix had Paul Atishon as a client in what technically started out as a civil case but they wouldn't reference that in the trailer.

 

[Wyoming]

Not to mention Bowser and Mario would be a strange choice. I'd expect Ryu, Ken, or Mega Man to be in it somehow.

 

[Sonsa]

The thing that gets me is that Bowser Jr and the koopalings are the prosecutor(s)? But hey, fun to imagine anyway! All the psyche-locks shattering could make for a really cool final smash! I still prefer somethin else, but still, neat!

 

[Wyoming]

Not to mention Bowser and Mario would be a strange choice. I'd expect Ryu, Ken, or Mega Man to be in it somehow.

Then again, I do not recall Mega Man in Ryu's, and surprisingly Ryu was not involved in Ken's so having thought about this part I dont think that is a thing lol.

Still...Mario and Bowser would be a bit weird. I guess they make sense in being the wackiest hero v villain dynamic which fits the series, but I I think they would go a different direction...

 

[fogbadge]

geez if you wanna be credible maybe not go for f-zero, nobody ever believes f-zeor making a comeback, and dont name it after pokemon games

 

[THE SLOTH]

Obviously fake, but... man, the tease of a new Paper Mario still hurts me on the inside. Chompy also sounds like the fakest, most made-up-on-the-fly partner ever, lol. That’s around when I stopped reading the leak with any seriousness.

 

[Geoffrey Druyts]

Too good to be true.

>new music service
>SNES Online
>F-Zero
>Paper Mario with partners

All in one direct? I doubt it.

 

[Geoffrey Druyts]

Edit: please ignore/delete this I somehow posted my post twice...

 

[Calamitas]

So here's a bit of a random topic: What would you all want Phoenix' Smash render to look like? Traditional objection pose, or something else?

 

[Arctiq]

So here's a bit of a random topic: What would you all want Phoenix' Smash render to look like? Traditional objection pose, or something else?

I think it has to be the objection pose. When we get an amiibo of him, I'd love to have the objection bubble appear too.

Also I just thought of something. I'm wondering if the Ace Attorney Trilogy HD port was a response from Capcom for having Nick in smash. Now that Ace Attorney is on every console, they can bring a lot of people to the Switch because Nick is in an extremely accessible fighting game.

 

[GoodGrief741]

So here's a bit of a random topic: What would you all want Phoenix' Smash render to look like? Traditional objection pose, or something else?

You can't do anything other than the objection pose, at least for the first render. If he returns to future games he'll probably get different poses (thinking pose, goofy scratching neck pose, etc), as that appears to be what they like to do.