TAKE THAT! Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney smashes the prosecution!

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Seriously though. We are at a state where nothing lines up

I mean to be fair, I did just make a post showing how things can line up, and then made another big post showing how that's not undone by a single tweet.

I'm not trying to say he's confirmed, but I'm not just going to roll over unless there absolutely is no information left.

Not that I have issues with taking things easy, but you don't need to call me unrealistic with this stuff when I've been nothing of the sort.

 

[Sabertooth]

I've never played a PW game but the guy just deserves to be in Smash. Hasn't he been exclusive to Nintendo consoles this whole time? And he's a freaking lawyer, so he'd have law-based attacks. He should be in Smash.

 

[P.Kat]

Hi everyone Happy News Years Eve

Like I said earlier. For all we know, Phoenix may simply be getting some spirits, or something.

That said, boy is P.Kat going to be happy.

Speaking about happy, Happy about what? What's new?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Hi everyone Happy News Years Eve

Speaking about happy, Happy about what? What's new?

According to Kamiya, after tallying up his Twitter votes and commenting on the entrants, he came to the conclusion that Ammy has the best chances.

I've never played a PW game but the guy just deserves to be in Smash. Hasn't he been exclusive to Nintendo consoles this whole time? And he's a freaking lawyer, so he'd have law-based attacks. He should be in Smash.

That is correct, he has never left home consoles outside of MvC series. He's reverse-Cloud.

Well, okay, there's the trilogy on PS4, but that's it. Your mileage may vary on the various PC and mobile releases.

 

[Deleted member]

Happy New Year!

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Hi everyone Happy News Years Eve

Speaking about happy, Happy about what? What's new?

Ah, you an Ammy fan in addition to a Phoenix Wright fan?
In addition to the lawyer's chances looking pretty good, it sounds like Ammy placed well on Kamiya's Smash poll of sorts.

 

[Wyoming]

It's all conjecture, but I'd consider it a soft disconfirm for now. Guess we'll see.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

It's all conjecture, but I'd consider it a soft disconfirm for now. Guess we'll see.

Geez, an entire long post like the one I made means nothing, but one ambiguous post that isn't even confirmed to be Smash related does it in for you? XD

Still, I guess you're just being cautionary. Fair enough.

 

[Wyoming]

I hope you are right, but I think it lines up as well as Luke Atmey's plan to use double jeopardy to get away with a lesser crime.

It has logic, it seems foolproof, but just one slip up and it all falls apart.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

I hope you are right, but I think it lines up as well as Luke Atmey's plan to use double jeopardy to get away with a lesser crime.

It has logic, it seems foolproof, but just one slip up and it all falls apart.

Yeaaah, good point. I'm sorry if I came off as overbearing in that last post.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Geez, an entire long post like the one I made means nothing, but one ambiguous post that isn't even confirmed to be Smash related does it in for you? XD

Still, I guess you're just being cautionary. Fair enough.

Still beats how the Geno thread are taking things.

Anyway, I'll remain on Team Hmm for the time being, as a judge should.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Still beats how the Geno thread are taking things.

Oh boy, tell me about it. Well, like during the famous Reddit Smash vote, like the Phoenix Wright fans who got Phoenix to 7th place, and managed to beat Doomguy, Paper Mario, and other famous folk, we'll take our victories or loss with grace.

We can be cautious optimistic, or pay it safe completely without accusing anyone of giving up. We're kindred and keen that way.

Kinda like in the Joker thread, right Flyboy Flybo? ;D

 

[GanonKanon]

I've wanted this for a while, along with Medusa (from Kid Icarus Uprising).

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

I've wanted this for a while, along with Medusa (from Kid Icarus Uprising).

Well, welcome aboard then!

 

[GanonKanon]

Well, welcome aboard then!

Thank you! It's good to be on the board.

As for Medusa, I'm hoping she could be her own character and not an Echo of Palutena.
As for Wright, would his special be similar to Shiek's? What I was thinking what he would take various papers from a folder and throw them at his enemy.
Plus, if there's Wright, there better be a Godot skin. Godot best lawyer.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Thank you! It's good to be on the board.

As for Medusa, I'm hoping she could be her own character and not an Echo of Palutena.
As for Wright, would his special be similar to Shiek's? What I was thinking what he would take various papers from a folder and throw them at his enemy.
Plus, if there's Wright, there better be a Godot skin. Godot best lawyer.

>As for Medusa, I'm hoping she could be her own character and not an Echo of Palutena.

I see you are a man of culture as well.

Also, do you figure they might use adult Maya in Phoenix's moveset? Seeing as MvC already has teen Maya.

 

[Wyoming]

Gone for the night. Happy New Year fellow lawyers. Hopefully 2019 actually is "an unmissable year for fans" for us. Doubtful considering a season of the anime and ports of game we've already played was deemed worthy of such a statement.

If no Phoenix in Smash I hope for a new game announcement at the very least. Otherwise I fear this will be a drought year for us.

 

[Flyboy]

Oh boy, tell me about it. Well, like during the famous Reddit Smash vote, like the Phoenix Wright fans who got Phoenix to 7th place, and managed to beat Doomguy, Paper Mario, and other famous folk, we'll take our victories or loss with grace.

We can be cautious optimistic, or pay it safe completely without accusing anyone of giving up. We're kindred and keen that way.

Kinda like in the Joker thread, right Flyboy Flybo? ;D

Too right! In the end we are all supporters, and we all have each others' backs, whether optimistic, cautiously optimistic, or choosing to believe this as a deconfirmation.

And, as always, the miracle may happen! The only time a lawyer can cry is when it's all over.

 

[P.Kat]

According to Kamiya, after tallying up his Twitter votes and commenting on the entrants, he came to the conclusion that Ammy has the best chances.

Wow! that IS good news. I'm glad she could get some recognition, and a possible chance to be in Smash.

Ah, you an Ammy fan in addition to a Phoenix Wright fan?
In addition to the lawyer's chances looking pretty good, it sounds like Ammy placed well on Kamiya's Smash poll of sorts.

That sounds good for both of us.
Not quite a Phoenix Wright Fan. I've never played any his games, and not sure how he'd played as a fighter (I should check out MvC3 to see how he plays for that though), but I wouldn't mind being listed a supporter, and I'm not against him being in Smash. Hopefully both us can get our favorite characters.

 

[Caladuz]

Dante got disconfirmed a while ago. Well not too long ago, but in October, Matt Walker, producer of the DMC series made a statement that would've violated NDAs for Dante.

Yah, I don't think Dante is in either, just that I don't believe Hitagi has any info on the Capcom rep.

Even if that quote is about Smash, which it likely isn't,

The quote could be about the poll that Kamiya did couldn't it? Along the lines of, "Why did you not include phoenix in the poll?" Don't think it's time to throw in the towel yet.

 

[GanonKanon]

Wow! that IS good news. I'm glad she could get some recognition, and a possible chance to be in Smash.

AHHHHHH YES I LOVE OKAMI
If Ammy's Final Smash isn't turning into Shiranui, I'm rioting.

>As for Medusa, I'm hoping she could be her own character and not an Echo of Palutena.

I see you are a man of culture as well.

Also, do you figure they might use adult Maya in Phoenix's moveset? Seeing as MvC already has teen Maya.

Maybe a countering down smash, like Peach's Toad? She could also be used in his Final Smash like how Megaman uses Megamen from different games, possibly spirit channeling Mia and doing some spirit stuff? I wanna see how they use Pearl and some of his other allies, too. I know for a fact they have to use Edgeworth, Apollo, Trucy, and Athena in one way or another.

 

[dezeray112]

I have no objections to his inclusion. Put me on the support list too.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Oh boy, Moydow ! Looks like we've got quite the update to make for the support roster. Ayup haha!

The quote could be about the poll that Kamiya did couldn't it? Along the lines of, "Why did you not include phoenix in the poll?" Don't think it's time to throw in the towel yet.

Precisely my point. Good eye and hope there!

 

[Wyoming]

Thoughts: He is a Mii costume.

I actually think that's starting to look somewhat likely. With all third parties costumes from Smash 4 gone, they'll probably release a new batch. If they want new costumes then Phoenix strikes me as someone they'd dip into if they went outside Street Fighter, Mega Man, and Monster Hunter.

I'd be disappointed, since that would conclude his journey in Smash. Negotiations for a costume being the end game.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Thoughts: He is a Mii costume.

I actually think that's starting to look somewhat likely. With all third parties costumes from Smash 4 gone, they'll probably release a new batch. If they want new costumes then Phoenix strikes me as someone they'd dip into if they went outside Street Fighter, Mega Man, and Monster Hunter.

I'd be disappointed, since that would conclude his journey in Smash. Negotiations for a costume being the end game.

Like I said before, going after him later rather than sooner increases the chances of being able to reference games beyond the original trilogy. There's always a next time.

Besides, this can give a fair chance for other series characters in the meantime.

 

[Flyboy]

Thoughts: He is a Mii costume.

I actually think that's starting to look somewhat likely. With all third parties costumes from Smash 4 gone, they'll probably release a new batch. If they want new costumes then Phoenix strikes me as someone they'd dip into if they went outside Street Fighter, Mega Man, and Monster Hunter.

I'd be disappointed, since that would conclude his journey in Smash. Negotiations for a costume being the end game.

Any representation is better than no representation.

I mean, yeah, I'd prefer playable but I'm never going to look a gift horse in the mouth. It just means he is considered a big enough name to feature in any way in the biggest Smash ever and I like that. But I mean, I'm a Chibi Robo fan elated by his Mii costume, and I desperately want the MegaMan.EXE costume back, so.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Thoughts: He is a Mii costume.

I actually think that's starting to look somewhat likely. With all third parties costumes from Smash 4 gone, they'll probably release a new batch. If they want new costumes then Phoenix strikes me as someone they'd dip into if they went outside Street Fighter, Mega Man, and Monster Hunter.

I'd be disappointed, since that would conclude his journey in Smash. Negotiations for a costume being the end game.

I really hope you didn't just will that scenario into existence. XD

All joking aside, it wouldn't necessarily spell the end, especially if Rex eventually makes it in as DLC beyond Season 1, considering how long a lifetime Smash Ultimate will likely have.

I said before, going after him later rather than sooner increases the chances of being able to reference games beyond the original trilogy.

As opposed to now? He's already got at least 5 games outside such. 7 if you count the DGS games.

Any representation is better than no representation.

Do have to wonder, what the heck kind of Mii Fighter he'd be.

 

[Wyoming]

I doubt they'll reference post trilogy content beyond music. Phoenix is more recognizable from his trilogy games in design and personality. And they are the only games they ever bother to port at first.

So far the Capcom characters all represent their most famous appearance so Capcom aren't bothered to argue otherwise. Takumi would only suggest trilogy, AJ, and DGS content plus Kamiya doesn't like the non-Takumi AA games. Who knows if Sakurai may feel the same?

 

[Flyboy]

It breaks my heart that there's a divide like that because as much as I love the original trilogy my favorite mainline game is easily Dual Destinies and my favorite fictional character of all time is the main villain of Apollo Justice. I didn't enjoy SoJ though.

I just want all sides of the series to be repped, dangit!

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

breaks my heart that there's a divide like that

You can blame that divide's birth on Ace Attorney 4 majorly and Investigstions 1 to a lesser extent.

Thankfully, ever since Spirot of Justice, it's not as potent and prominent as it used to be, those most people agree that Ace Attorney 4 is the weakest of the mainline games for good reasons.

 

[Wyoming]

AJ being the weakest isn't even true. That's Dual Destinies with its weak case 2 and 3. Even taking story out of the picture, the game play was bare bones. Removing everything people loved about the series and being much easier in difficulty (it's insane that the Mood Matrix/Psyche-Locks have no punishment).

Spirit of Justice was a huge shift towards positivity in every regard after Dual Destinies. Still want the lawyer abilities to actually have difficulty and punishment, though. Psyche-Locks might as well not exist in the last two games.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

AJ being the weakest isn't even true. That's Dual Destinies with its weak case 2 and 3.

AJ only really has one case that most people agree to be amazing, and that's its first.
4-2 is boring with an unlikable defendant, 4-3, Turnabout Serenade is trash that many even consider the worst case ever in the series, and this game also commits the crime of having a weak and anticlimactic final case with Turnabout Succession.

Apollo himself in his own game, doesn't shine through as a character, Hobo Phoenix was hated back in the day and still is by some four how out of character he gets, despite acting in character during 4-4 at wierd times; that's even getting into how contrived him losing his badge feels upon scrutiny.

Much of AJ's cast isn't really that memorable, characters from the original trilogy just drop off the map to many's displeasure.

I won't deny that DD has problems, as it does. But overall, it has less bad baggage and brought back stuff people liked for the most part. And it helps that later on, SoJ improved things from it. Also, DD despite its faults, overall provided a more enjoyable experience than AJ. Hence the viewings of the games nowadays.

 

[Wyoming]

Case 2 actually has a good plot. Strickler's bad I won't deny that but the Kitaki family get too much hate. Characters like the Tenmas were more one note and annoying than them.

Case 3 is a mess, I won't deny it, but I think Lamiroir and Mochi are good characters in their own right. The villain is satisfying to take down,

The finale is on the weaker side but I enjoyed the connecting plot points. The problem was how asinine it all felt due to Phoenix's trial court system.

DD's first three cases are dull and rather cringe The way the characters are written wasn't as strong as previous games. It has a good finale but the journey to it was painful. Very good DLC case too, however.

Also who is CureParfait and why do they like every negative post about this character lol

 

[Flyboy]

You can blame that divide's birth on Ace Attorney 4 majorly and Investigstions 1 to a lesser extent.

Thankfully, ever since Spirot of Justice, it's not as potent and prominent as it used to be, those most people agree that Ace Attorney 4 is the weakest of the mainline games for good reasons.

Spirit of Justice is the worst one in my eyes and it's not even close. It has one absolutely spectacular case in Case 2 (one of the best in the series) and a bunch of, uh, well, things that definitely happen. Lots of great moments, lots of great characters, but overall I just...nah.

You're talking to a staunch AJ defender who has been in the fandom since JFA's initial release. I had to fight so many Apollo haters back in the day, man. Turnabout Corner is a fantastic case. Turnabout Trump is the second best opening case in the series (only 3-1 tops it). Serenade ain't great and the finale of 4-4 is abrupt but the story behind it and the character work and the cliffhangers, my god they're so strong. The spritework is gorgeous, too, and the music is so powerful. There's a whole lot to love about AJ.

Don't get me started on DD. I'll defend that game to the death. It and AAI2 constantly battle it out as my favorite in the series.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Also who is CureParfait CureParfait and why do they like every negative post about this character lol

What character?

 

[GoodGrief741]

Since we’re talking games, I think AJ is trilogy-caliber. Better than JFA, probably better than PW as well. All the cases are great.

Dual Destinies was kind of a letdown but all of the cases are really good (if a bit easy).

Spirit of Justice just falls on its ass. To me it’s no contest, SoJ is the worst. The overarching plot is idiotic and anticlimactic. The cases in Khurain are super weak. And the new characters are terribly written.

 

[CureParfait]

Also who is CureParfait and why do they like every negative post about this character lol

I actually do like this character, I just liked the posts because you bring up good points.

 

[Caladuz]

The way the characters are written wasn't as strong as previous games. It has a good finale but the journey to it was painful.

I assume you are talking about Apollo here? It's strange how much I hear this when, DD Apollo was my favorite iteration of him. He was the only one really being logical. Instead of placing blind trust in Athena like Phoenix did, he investigated her for himself. He also had good reason to since his eye was acting up, which has been a pretty reliable indicator of someone's guilt. Even if he was proven wrong in the end, I don't think anything he did was wrong per se except maybe not trusting phoenix enough to tell him what he was up to. But at the same time, since the case was personal I could see why he would want to handle it alone as he was also dealing with grief. Besides having some personality flaws (not trusting enough), makes for more intriguing "real" characters.

 

[Wyoming]

I actually do like this character, I just liked the posts because you bring up good points.

Ha! Apologies, just found a pattern that was odd.

I can see why someone would think SoJ isn't well written...because it was obvious who the big bad was gonna be on context alone. They wanted to make it about the adventure but it doesn't work in a series that revolves around mystery. It works for filler cases (love you, Don Tigre you blundering idiot) but as the main arc not so much.

However case 2 is a damn treasure and anyone who crticizes it is wrong.

I assume you are talking about Apollo here? It's strange how much I hear this when, DD Apollo was my favorite iteration of him. He was the only one really being logical. Instead of placing blind trust in Athena like Phoenix did, he investigated her for himself. He also had good reason to since his eye was acting up, which has been a pretty reliable indicator of someone's guilt. Even if he was proven wrong in the end, I don't think anything he did was wrong per se except maybe not trusting phoenix enough to tell him what he was up to. But at the same time, since the case was personal I could see why he would want to handle it alone as he was also dealing with grief. Besides having some personality flaws (not trusting enough), makes for more intriguing "real" characters.

I was referring more to the academy students, L'Belle, the Tenmas, and Athena herself. They all didn't feel very Ace Attorney to me.

Apollo was actually the best character in Dual Destinies.

 

[Flyboy]

Since we’re talking games, I think AJ is trilogy-caliber. Better than JFA, probably better than PW as well. All the cases are great.

Dual Destinies was kind of a letdown but all of the cases are really good (if a bit easy).

Spirit of Justice just falls on its ***. To me it’s no contest, SoJ is the worst. The overarching plot is idiotic and anticlimactic. The cases in Khurain are super weak. And the new characters are terribly written.

I assume you are talking about Apollo here? It's strange how much I hear this when, DD Apollo was my favorite iteration of him. He was the only one really being logical. Instead of placing blind trust in Athena like Phoenix did, he investigated her for himself. He also had good reason to since his eye was acting up, which has been a pretty reliable indicator of someone's guilt. Even if he was proven wrong in the end, I don't think anything he did was wrong per se except maybe not trusting phoenix enough to tell him what he was up to. But at the same time, since the case was personal I could see why he would want to handle it alone as he was also dealing with grief. Besides having some personality flaws (not trusting enough), makes for more intriguing "real" characters.

People of culture the both of you. From a pure character standpoint Dual Destinies knocks it out of the park. In many ways it did what Apollo Justice tried to do in making a darker, deeper story focused on internal struggles and existing in a corrupt society. AJ nailed it but it went too realistic and subtle for some fans which is why it's so contentious. DD had more exaggerated characters a la the AAI series and I feel like it really worked.

(AAI2 is so good y'all please play it it's a crime it was never released over here)

Spirit of Justice failed on so many levels to me, outside of some excellent moments (and I really can't praise case 2 enough, it's easily one of my favorites). After a wonderful dynamic established between the WAA they really ****ed up how Athena was handled by pretending she was incompetent again (despite Turnabout Academy showing how she deals with situations like that) and not even giving her a full case. Also, Phoenix went from warm mentor to...kind of a jerk. Like it was like they needed to harden him up or something despite the balance being perfect in DD. SoJ really did Athena dirty but it also did Apollo dirty by ignoring all the great backstory in 4 and 5 and replacing it with...uh...that.

And don't get me wrong! I liked certain parts of 6! Certain characters! The entirety of case 2! But they did the whole corrupt society thing in 5, didn't need to just invent a weird country with cases that dragged to show it further...also every case had like, three characters: the guy who did it, the guy who didn't, and the defendant. Weak. Again, it really only worked in 6-2 but that's because that case did basically everything right.

And yeah, I love JFA because it was my first one but there's no way it's better than AJ even if Farewell My Turnabout is one of the best in the original trilogy. They're at least equal overall; people just nitpicked some really silly stuff (and the main villain requires a lot of rereading and subtext and replaying to truly understand but hey that's why he's my favorite fictional villain of all time).

But whatever, I'm just an old fan with too many opinions. Haha.