TAKE THAT! Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney smashes the prosecution!

[Wyoming]

I actually wonder if Apollo instead of Phoenix is possible, Depending on how Capcom and the AA team move the series forward, Apollo could find himself in a good position.

...having said that, Capcom believe the series can't sell in the West without Phoenix and there's no plans for him to take a backseat. The chance, if it exists, is rather minuscule. Not to mention there's no reason to choose Apollo over him in terms of moveset potential; unless Sakurai is really keen on an perceive mechanic.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I actually wonder if Apollo instead of Phoenix is possible, Depending on how Capcom and the AA team move the series forward, Apollo could find himself in a good position.

...having said that, Capcom believe the series can't sell in the West without Phoenix and there's no plans for him to take a backseat. The chance, if it exists, is rather minuscule. Not to mention there's no reason to choose Apollo over him in terms of moveset potential; unless Sakurai is really keen on an perceive mechanic.

Unless

Spoiler: AA6 spoilers

the games shift focus to Khurain, I don’t think we’ll ever see Apollo again, so I doubt it’ll be Apollo instead of Phoenix.

 

[Wyoming]

Unless

Spoiler: AA6 spoilers

the games shift focus to Khurain, I don’t think we’ll ever see Apollo again, so I doubt it’ll be Apollo instead of Phoenix.

I doubt that will be the case. The ending of SoJ is teasing closing one of the loose ends of his character/development, and I think they kept him there for story purposes and to bring back the Seances.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I doubt that will be the case. The ending of SoJ is teasing closing one of the loose ends of his character/development, and I think they kept him there for story purposes and to bring back the Seances.

I think it’s more of a ‘getting rid of a character we don’t know what to do with’.

 

[Wyoming]

Only time will tell. I'd be surprised if Apollo is absent from AA7, however.

I do think Athena needs the bulk of the development for the next title. She can't only be about that case and Blackquill, right?

 

[Flyboy]

I think it’s more of a ‘getting rid of a character we don’t know what to do with’.

lol are you ****ing kidding me after 6 tossed away everything 4 and 5 established only to cram in more weird backstory but give him the main focus the entire game and hint towards even more Khu'rain stuff in the future and even tease THE BIG THING post-credits you're thinking he's in any way badly treated and isn't coming back? If anything 6 treated Athena poorly by relegating her to the backseat in the final confrontation and only giving her an obligatory trial scene in a single case.

6 was a mess but you can't begin to tell me for a second it wasn't Apollo's second game. He's probably gonna have a grand return at the end of the next one. Which I am praying is Athena Cykes: Ace Attorney because damn it, it's her time for a solo joint and she's perfect to bring the series back down a little after 6 overextended itself.

 

[NSSKG151]

I for one wouldn't mind if the next Ace Attorney game focused and was named after Athena Cykes. She seemed like an interesting character when I played DD (but really she just reminds me of Estelle Bright from Trails in the Sky since they both have similar appearances and personalities) and I wouldn't mind seeing more of her. I really need to get around to finishing Miles Edgeworth Investigation and SOJ.

Though if Phoenix Wright does get into Smash as DLC I only expect him to be playable and his alt skins being based on the other main characters from the original trilogy (Edgeworth, Mia, Maya, Franziska, Godot, Gumshoes) plus Apollo and Athena. Any other character from Ace Attorney are more likely to cameo in the background of the stage that comes with him and if we are lucky maybe spirits of them as well.

 

[Jave]

BTW, what do you guys think the stage from Ace Attorney would be? I think we can all agree that the most important location is the Courtroom, but I have trouble picturing that place adapted into a Smash Bros. stage.

 

[GoodGrief741]

lol are you ****ing kidding me after 6 tossed away everything 4 and 5 established only to cram in more weird backstory but give him the main focus the entire game and hint towards even more Khu'rain stuff in the future and even tease THE BIG THING post-credits you're thinking he's in any way badly treated and isn't coming back? If anything 6 treated Athena poorly by relegating her to the backseat in the final confrontation and only giving her an obligatory trial scene in a single case.

6 was a mess but you can't begin to tell me for a second it wasn't Apollo's second game. He's probably gonna have a grand return at the end of the next one. Which I am praying is Athena Cykes: Ace Attorney because damn it, it's her time for a solo joint and she's perfect to bring the series back down a little after 6 overextended itself.

I think Apollo definitely got mistreated. It’s pretty telling that in two of his games he’s not even the protagonist. They didn’t even care enough to actually make a backstory that makes sense. Plus they’ve been teasing THE BIG THING since 4, it’s never going to pay off. I expect Apollo to return only if he gets a spin-off. (Plus, if he makes a grand return in the next game, it won’t really be a grand return. He won’t have been missing for even one game)

But Athena, now she’s been sidelined hard. She should definitely be the next protagonist, the devs clearly think they should keep one-upping themselves story-wise to make a credible challenge for Phoenix, when imo the best choice is to get a new rookie attorney and just make normal cases.

But this is not the place for me to rant about what I would have done instead of 5 and 6.

 

[NSSKG151]

BTW, what do you guys think the stage from Ace Attorney would be? I think we can all agree that the most important location is the Courtroom, but I have trouble picturing that place adapted into a Smash Bros. stage.

I have a hard time imagining it being anything but the courtroom. Though I always just imagine the courtroom from the original trilogy being a backdrop with platforms of the witness stand and prosecutor, defense and judges bench for the players to fight on. Also every now and then character such as Apollo, Athena and Edgeworth would pop up with a text bubble of Objection/Hold It/Take That to act as stage hazards.

Other than that nothing really strikes me as iconic or memorable besides the Wright Anything Office or the Detention Center being a potential stage settings.

 

[fogbadge]

am i the only one who enjoyed the story and character development in all 6 then?

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

am i the only one who enjoyed the story and character development in all 6 then?

I'd be with ya if I didn't dislike Ace Attorney 4 for what it did v to Phoenix and how it undershot miserably with establishing Apollo's character, and wasn't rather a boring story when not being awful, despite having some good moments.

 

[Sonsa]

- For stage, it's gatta be the courtroom, but I would also go with the Bombed Courtroom from Dual Destinies! It could start as the usual Courtroom and then have the bomb later as a stage hazard, if they want to go through that effort, but yeah, I also struggle with how it would work as a stage besides being another walk-off. So I guess the courtroom would be in the background while you fight on sort of a battlefield without the top platform? Just two platforms sorta representing the defense and prosecutor benches? Eh...

- I enjoyed all 6 mostly for sure, 4 has such a unique melancholy vibe, 5 umm I enjoyed less but its still great with memorable times and the mood matrix is my favorite mechanic, and 6 has one of the best twists in the series and I love how Phoenix and Apollo shared spotlight but really Apollo got the edge! Apollo does definitely feel mishandled, whether he went according to plan or not...

He had is own game building up a new story, felt like they wanted to do his own trilogy, and 6 years later it seems like they got scared and brought Phoenix back, still trying to make a new story, but relive old ones, and Apollo reaaaally didnt feel important in 5...and to further the mess, they throw in Athena for some reason...? I like her and all, definitely, but to bring Phoenix back AND introduce a rookie attorney that demands attention and character development! Apollo had a lot of competition. There was a pretty sloppy thing about his "best friend" who was never mentioned in his own game and I still don't get a sense of, and Apollo had a real cool bandaged outfit that was used for some um... I dunno how to say it... uhhh "over-the-top"??? thing about doubt, ahh I dunno

I'm glad that 6 really gave him the development and even closure that I was looking for. I love Phoenix and am down to see more of him, but he's not a rookie attorney anymore, so giving him the spotlight doesn't seem totally right... Takumi wanted to end it after the trilogy because Wright's story was done, and yeah, but I'm glad he's back with a new story, and it's being a mentor to these goofy kids. But that means he's gatta share the spotlight, and I think 6 did it really great! 5, to me, just felt confused and messy, case 5 is so cool, and 3 aint bad either, but the rest is ehh and it feels like theyre trying to find what exactly Ace Attorney is? 6 doubled down on goofy name puns, but also the characters and their lives and relationships and humanity and stuff! It actually felt like the trilogy kinda! Trucy's magic show, investigating and hearing that Phoenix and Maya have been investigating around too, perceiving Pearl, the Troupe Gramayre drama, even Athena going solo with Simon support, it felt more established and connected? I still prefer sprites to 3D models and other things, but the music, twists, I was and am still really proud of the team, I think 6 is such a strong entry in the series! Oof, this was a bit of a ramble, whoops...guess I never really got all those feelings out, at least not that fleshed out.

- For Smash, after Phoenix, I think fans would want Edgeworth since he ranks as the most popular on polls? But besides Logic Chess and maybe some help from Kay, he wouldn't bring anything all that new... I'd personally give Maya her own spot and have her use spunky moves like hey, maybe she saw a move she wants to try from the steel samurai, or throw something huffy-puffy! She can also use the magatama and its chains, psyche-locks, and vague magic in MvC! She could also channel famously dead characters for just some moves, not a whole stance change! Characters like like James McCloud, King Boo, Wrinkly Kong, uhh Gengar?? (I wonder if Ghost Pokemon count pfft), uhh a ghost from Pac-Man, Charlie Nash, you get the idea!

I'd also personally like Trucy to get a fighting game role with all sorts of magic tricks and Mr. Hat~ She could even use Apollo for something!
I also like Franziska and would totally support her! Godot's cool, but again, besides throwing coffee and maybe shooting a lazer, not much new to offer.
And that's why for my dream Nintendo vs Capcom roster I put Phoenix, Maya, Franziska, and Trucy!
I talk too much... I like Ace Attorney, I got stuff to say!!

 

[An Archie]

The only other stage I could think of for Ace Attorney that felt iconic enough but interesting as a stage would be Dusky Bridge from Trials & Tribulations. A ropeway bridge stage could be interesting but we already have a few bridge stages in ultimate, and although it's a memorable location from the game, I don't think it's as iconic as the courtroom.

 

[Wyoming]

Kurain Village would be the only other viable choice. But you have to think from a musical perspective: most if not all the AA tracks that would come into Smash would fit a courtroom stage more than anything.

As others have said, I see the Courtroom being a Battlefield clone but uses the courtroom itself as a gimmick: speech bubbles, desk slams, gavels, whips, etc. should show up on the stage depending on what's being played in the background.

Think of it like Midgar but more random and a case is being played during the match. Maybe it could be something players could have control over? Like evidence shows on the stage that favors the defense, the prosecution, or no one. That creates different hazards and background scenarios depending on what is picked up by a player.

Otherwise a simpler way would be to simply fight in the courtroom as it is seen in the Investigations games and make it a walk-off, but obviously touched up for Smash.

 

[Flyboy]

I just love the idea of the courtroom being bombed mid-match even if it's just an aesthetic change but I loved Dual Destinies so I'll take any reference to it I can get.

Getting the evidence Midgar-style is cool. I like that.

 

[Wyoming]

And the series is a visual novel. It would be a fantastic away to represent that with an interactive stage!

 

[Rainami]

nick is probably the only third party rep I actually want to see in the game (besides sly cooper, who's probably impossible). Add me to the support list.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Hey yo. Although I've never played the games Phoenix Wright is in I do love the idea of him being in Smash since he'd be unique, creative and original being an attorney and it'd be interesting how that would play out.

You can add me to the support list.

 

[Wyoming]

Let's do a classic mode route now for Mr. Phoenix.

Phoenix Route: Getting to Court!

Match #1: Phoenix
vs Zelda and Isabelle
Suzaku Castle

Match #2: Phoenix & Zelda
vs Donkey Kong & Villager
Town & City

Match #3: Phoenix
vs Bayonetta
Fourside (hazardless)

Match #4: Phoenix
vs Bowser
New Donk City

Match #5: Phoenix
vs Ganondorf (grey hair)
Courtroom

Match #6: Phoenix & Zelda
vs Richter & Joker
Courtroom

Final Boss: Phoenix & Zelda
vs Master Hand and Crazy Hand
Final Destination

 

[GoodGrief741]

So apparently there’s a new tweet from Hideki Kamiya in which he mentions talking to Takumi about Phoenix Wright and Smash.

Could somebody get ahold of a reliable translation?

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

So apparently there’s a new tweet from Hideki Kamiya in which he mentions talking to Takumi about Phoenix Wright and Smash.

Could somebody get ahold of a reliable translation?

Eh, it's nothing really important. Just that they were conversing while drinking. Kamiya Kraft happened to bring it up because he was discussing the outcomes of votes people had left regarding his Smash vote ballot.

Heck, if anything, them talking about it could be a good sign, considering that photo Takumi shared with Sakurai and Kamiya.

 

[Luigifan18]

Eh, it's nothing really important. Just that they were conversing while drinking. Kamiya Kraft happened to bring it up because he was discussing the outcomes of votes people had left regarding his Smash vote ballot.

Heck, if anything, them talking about it could be a good sign, considering that photo Takumi shared with Sakurai and Kamiya.

Sorry, but when I hear the name Takumi, all I can think of is bows and "I AM BETRAYAL!"

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Sorry, but when I hear the name Takumi, all I can think of is bows and "I AM BETRAYAL!"

Fire Emblem reference?

 

[Capybara Gaming]

On the one hand, I'm happy we get a season 2 of the Ace Attorney anime covering Trials and Tribulations, as it's my favorite in the series, but the fact they're doing at minimum 3 anime-original episodes worries me, considering they had to cram in the first trial of Justice for All and so far skipped over Mia's first trial. If we don't get both of her trials, I'm blaming these damn filler episodes, considering both of Mia's trials are essential to understanding Bridge to the Turnabout.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

and so far skipped over Mia's first trial.

Uhhhh. Dude, Mia's first trial is the second-to-last episode in the game. They haven't skipped over it.

And as for Turnabout Memories, that's going to get its own OVA next year. No need to worry.

 

[Caladuz]

but the fact they're doing at minimum 3 anime-original episodes worries me, considering they had to cram in the first trial of Justice for All and so far skipped over Mia's first trial.

They are not skipping, they are reordering. Which, for the record I kinda prefer. It keeps the main story together allowing for continous buildup to the climax of the plot, rather than interrupted with character-building (secondary filler) cases. And second, I have been enjoying the original content because it is fresh content with great characterization. We are getting a 1 hour special in a couple of weeks which will handle mias tutorial case.

 

[Wyoming]

Eh, it's nothing really important. Just that they were conversing while drinking. Kamiya Kraft happened to bring it up because he was discussing the outcomes of votes people had left regarding his Smash vote ballot.

Heck, if anything, them talking about it could be a good sign, considering that photo Takumi shared with Sakurai and Kamiya.

Do you have a link? Find it fascinating that Takumi talked about it. Can't seem to find anything on court records about it.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Do you have a link? Find it fascinating that Takumi talked about it. Can't seem to find anything on court records about it.

Eh, that's because it was told by Kamiya, not Takumi himself. We don't even know for sure the entire context behind it.

 

[Wyoming]

Eh, that's because it was told by Kamiya, not Takumi himself. We don't even know for sure the entire context behind it.

Still. Give me the sauce.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Uhhhh. Dude, Mia's first trial is the second-to-last episode in the game. They haven't skipped over it.

And as for Turnabout Memories, that's going to get its own OVA next year. No need to worry.

When I say first trial I mean the first case from the game.

And they're leaving out an important part from the main season? Whether it gets an OVA or not, that's not good. Not everyone's gonna know about that and it's an essential part of the plot.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

And they're leaving out an important part from the main season? Whether it gets an OVA or not, that's not good.

Actually, it's going to be a one- hour tv special to be specific, aired in January 19th next year
as part of the Season. So they really aren't leaving squat out.

 

[Tetrin]

Alright you guys, I need you to change my mind on something:

Phoenix Wright just seems like he has no moveset potential.

I admittedly haven't delved into his possibilities, but from what I saw in the video posted in the op, he doesn't look like the unique of a fighter.

 

[Wyoming]

Alright you guys, I need you to change my mind on something:

Phoenix Wright just seems like he has no moveset potential.

I admittedly haven't delved into his possibilities, but from what I saw in the video posted in the op, he doesn't look like the unique of a fighter.

I literally made two movesets in this thread.

There are plenty of ganeplay elements from the series that can be used for a kit. His Megatama, evidence, typical lawyer gear, the absurdity of the series (Phoenix unleashing wind with an Objection like in the anime), his friends, speech bubbles, etc.

He has been in two fighters. Elements from those can also be used.

And yes he'd be a very unique fighter.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Alright you guys, I need you to change my mind on something:

Phoenix Wright just seems like he has no moveset potential.

I admittedly haven't delved into his possibilities, but from what I saw in the video posted in the op, he doesn't look like the unique of a fighter.

He’s in Marvel vs. Capcom 3. If that moveset doesn’t look unique to you, then the Smash roster must seem like a bunch of Mii Fighters wearing elaborate costumes.

 

[Deleted member]

He is fun to control in UMvC3.

 

[Tetrin]

I literally made two movesets in this thread.

There are plenty of ganeplay elements from the series that can be used for a kit. His Megatama, evidence, typical lawyer gear, the absurdity of the series (Phoenix unleashing wind with an Objection like in the anime), his friends, speech bubbles, etc.

He has been in two fighters. Elements from those can also be used.

And yes he'd be a very unique fighter.

You say he'd be unique and yet you've borrowed a sizeable chunk of his moves from other characters in your own movesets, namely Mario, Captain Falcon, Falco, Little Mac, and Ryu. Him pointing would seem rushed if translated into Smash as a jab or just be too slow as a whole. Throwing the paper upwards seems impractical for a fighting game and would likely do insignificant amounts of damage, and I was mainly only impressed by his D-throw, recovery, and final smash. I thought that maybe if he'd scattered his papers on the ground, than others who near him would trip, but even then, it'd resemble Diddy's bananas and the tripping would seem a little since the papers go all over the place.

I know you said you'd made other movesets, and if you'd like cite them, feel free, but the one I saw only had a few interesting moves dwarfed by moves generally lackluster and rough-to-translate into Smash. I don't know much of anything about the Ace Attorney series, but don't lawyers use briefcases? Can't he use that as a weapon of some sort?

He’s in Marvel vs. Capcom 3. If that moveset doesn’t look unique to you, then the Smash roster must seem like a bunch of Mii Fighters wearing elaborate costumes.

Um... no? His assistant coming in and tripping is like a glorified version of Isabelle and Villager's dash attacks. Uppercuts is something Ryu's already got covered, and most of his expressions are way too short range. That game has a much smaller stage to play on than Smash, and I didn't find any of his expressions really viable for a Smash translation. However, I must say that I was thoroughly impressed by objection, although it seems like it'd be easy to counter in Smash.

 

[Wyoming]

Brief cases aren't something we commonly see him with aside from cutscenes. He could use it, but it would be weird.

Also yes he will borrow moves. Every character borrows moves.
K. Rool, Ridley and Incineroar have the same d-smash. Incineroar and K. Rool share the same uthrow.
Falcon and Samus share the same dash attack and dtilt.
Mario, Luigi, Yoshi, Link Young Link, Fox, Wolf, and Dr. Mario share the same nair.

There's only so little smash attacks and aerials you can do in a game like Smash. They have to be shared as they are basic attacks.

He throws papers in MvCIII. They work fine for what they are. Smash doesn't need to make sense for what hits you. It could work the same as it does there and translate super well into Smash.

 

[Tetrin]

Brief cases aren't something we commonly see him with aside from cutscenes. He could use it, but it would be weird.

Also yes he will borrow moves. Every character borrows moves. K. Rool, Ridley and Incineroar have the same d-smash. Incineroar and K. Rool share the same uthrow. Falcon and Samus share the same dash attack and dtilt. There's only so little smash attacks and aerials you can do in a game like Smash. They have to be shared as they are basic attacks.

He throws papers in MvCIII. They work fine for what they are. Smash doesn't need to make sense for what hits you. It could work the same as it does there and translate super well into Smash.

I suppose you're right about the borrowing moves thing, but not I just think Phoenix would make for a pretty generic brawler apart from a few wacky moves.

I know it doesn't have to make all too much sense, but a paper hitting you and even having the slightest effect on gameplay is unrealistic. I know it's a video game but I think this falls into the realm of "too unrealistic in an unrealistic game".

Also, doesn't he have like, lawyering books or something? Those are usually pretty hefty, and would seem more practical than slits of paper.

 

[Wyoming]

I suppose you're right about the borrowing moves thing, but not I just think Phoenix would make for a pretty generic brawler apart from a few wacky moves.

I know it doesn't have to make all too much sense, but a paper hitting you and even having the slightest effect on gameplay is unrealistic. I know it's a video game but I think this falls into the realm of "too unrealistic in an unrealistic game".

Also, doesn't he have like, lawyering books or something? Those are usually pretty hefty, and would seem more practical than slits of paper.

We told you what he can do. You are conveniently forgetting all the moves that wouldn't make him a "generic brawler". e.g: evidence sorting, Magatama stage control, and even borrowing from Marvel or Project X Zone by using Maya in the moveset again.

And no...it isn't. That argument died in the first game when Jigglypuff heavily hurts you by falling asleep on you. And no that isn't even canon in Pokemon.