Taj is the best Mewtwo (Ask Taj Stuff Thread)

[The Phenom]

Mewtwo boards I'm releasing part two of my combo videos. Featuring my mewtwo.

12-22-12

 

[Metros]

Hey guys. I guess you could say that I'm one of those people that has followed for years, but has always sat back and watched from afar. I'm a dedicated Mewtwo main, and have mained him since getting the game. I'm only taking up Cpt. Falcon as a secondary now, but Mewtwo is always my no.1.

So hi!

Taj has been my biggest inspiration to pursue Mewtwo, but I'm also a fan of the Pokemon as I'm sure everybody else is too. So I have a question for Taj, who I've always wanted to talk to, so forgive me if I sound stupid. But I'm sure this applies to any M2 dedicated main like myself.

Recently I went to my second ever tournament. As he's low-tier, did you get flattened when you first started entering tournaments, and how did you go about working around that? From the moment you first decided to main him, to now… what was the journey like for you? Did you just want to give up, or prove that Mewtwo’s a true bad*** once and for all? I know I'll get stick as I'm pretty much the only M2 main in the state where I'm from. Yes, I got flattened and did terrible, contrary to my first ever tournament in my life where I got 5th. I've had some positive feedback so far.

Basically I'm just looking for advice/critique and anything that will help me, coming from other Mewtwo mains. Yes, I have videos but I know there is another thread for that. Should I bump it and post examples? I appreciate any advice. And I'm fairly new to the tournament scene as well, considering I've virtually only had CPU's to train against for 3 years. (None of my friends play Melee, and I'm an only child.)

New to these boards as well, so if this post is too long, or I'm not doing something correct let me know.

Thanks!

 

[Taj278]

Hey guys. I guess you could say that I'm one of those people that has followed for years, but has always sat back and watched from afar. I'm a dedicated Mewtwo main, and have mained him since getting the game. I'm only taking up Cpt. Falcon as a secondary now, but Mewtwo is always my no.1.

So hi!

Taj has been my biggest inspiration to pursue Mewtwo, but I'm also a fan of the Pokemon as I'm sure everybody else is too. So I have a question for Taj, who I've always wanted to talk to, so forgive me if I sound stupid. But I'm sure this applies to any M2 dedicated main like myself.

Recently I went to my second ever tournament. As he's low-tier, did you get flattened when you first started entering tournaments, and how did you go about working around that? From the moment you first decided to main him, to now… what was the journey like for you? Did you just want to give up, or prove that Mewtwo’s a true bad*** once and for all? I know I'll get stick as I'm pretty much the only M2 main in the state where I'm from. Yes, I got flattened and did terrible, contrary to my first ever tournament in my life where I got 5th. I've had some positive feedback so far.

Basically I'm just looking for advice/critique and anything that will help me, coming from other Mewtwo mains. Yes, I have videos but I know there is another thread for that. Should I bump it and post examples? I appreciate any advice. And I'm fairly new to the tournament scene as well, considering I've virtually only had CPU's to train against for 3 years. (None of my friends play Melee, and I'm an only child.)

New to these boards as well, so if this post is too long, or I'm not doing something correct let me know.

Thanks!

Hi, welcome to the boards. Your post length is fine. :D

Well, I don't think I ever posted in great detail what my Mewtwo experience was like when I first entered the competitive scene. I may save the finer details for another post, but I'll give you a brief overview I suppose.

When I first started playing, I defecated on everyone locally. I played Mewtwo for fun a lot, and I wanted to be the best Mewtwo in the world when I first saw that he was in the game. This was back in 2002 when I first started playing. A couple of years go by and I'm mostly just scrub stomping people in the Gilbert/Mesa area, I wasn't as focused on being the best Mewtwo or anything, because I mostly just wanted to focus on competing in general.

I actually did well at all of my first tournaments, I didn't main anyone exclusively though. I didn't even really use Mewtwo in important tournament matches until 2005 because of his limitations and the trouble I had with Forward at the time. Forward moved closer to me around 2006, and he was saying how much trouble he had with my M2 and kind of indirectly inspired me to take my M2 to a higher level. I came out with Shadow Claw mostly because I did want to be recognized for my Mewtwo and I wanted to show that he could do more than what the best M2s at the time were doing. But, that was thrown together with just an hour of footage.

I dropped Shadow Claw 2 as I was developing my Mewtwo to be more tournament viable. A reasonable alternative and counterpick to certain characters and players that were giving my mains trouble. It actually worked out very well, I managed to get wins against people that beat me in the past like The King and Chu Dat to name a few.

So to answer your question... I haven't gotten to a point where I just wanted to quit Mewtwo as I was training, but I've definitely been a player that focused on playing a lot of different characters anyway. I just happened to also be really good with Mewtwo and invented a style that made him viable in competitive play.

If you're going to seriously play Mewtwo and use him competitively, you really need to learn how every other character works as well. Mewtwo needs to capitalize on every opportunity. That means, poor DI, knowing when to use which throws to maintain positioning or force tech chase options, understanding all holes in every character's approaches, space down tilt at tip to avoid CCs and when you can follow up on a down tilt hit confirm, have all teleport options down perfectly. Teleport ledge stall to guarantee edgeguards, and recognize how much knowledge your opponent has when fighting Mewtwo.

You ultimately need to exploit everything to your advantage when you play as Mewtwo. Know when your opponent knows that confusion can be easily punished, know when they think they have reads on your teleports, make them think they can be killed up throw when they won't with proper DI, etc.

I'll try to get some recorded friendlies of M2 even though I'm a bit rusty at Apex. I probably won't rock him in tournament this time, but depending on the matchup or if I'm sure I'm going to get wrecked anyway, maybe I'll bust him out for you guys. :D

 

[Landry]

Taj is going to Apex?

hype

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

I'll try to get some recorded friendlies of M2 even though I'm a bit rusty at Apex. I probably won't rock him in tournament this time, but depending on the matchup or if I'm sure I'm going to get wrecked anyway, maybe I'll bust him out for you guys. :D

If you're on stream you HAVE to play Mewtwo in at least 1 game.

Are you doing anything to practice for Apex? You should try and repeat the Genesis 2 performance

And are you entering teams? If so, who are you teaming with? If not, why not?

Good luck at Apex :D

 

[Metros]

When I first started playing, I defecated on everyone locally. I played Mewtwo for fun a lot, and I wanted to be the best Mewtwo in the world when I first saw that he was in the game.

Ha ha. I can just imagine. The good thing about M2 is that people don't expect to play against a good one, so they are kinda taken aback. I've had somebody call mine a 'beast' once.

Forward moved closer to me around 2006, and he was saying how much trouble he had with my M2 and kind of indirectly inspired me to take my M2 to a higher level.

How long would you say it took you to get down all of his AT's and develop your game style? What I can do today has only been accomplished for me by watching videos and reading up. I wouldn't say I'm bad with M2, but I know I have a lot more to learn. It's been hard not having anybody to play against for three years, but I think I've done okay. Your ShadowClaw series was what pushed me to train harder.

I'll try to get some recorded friendlies of M2 even though I'm a bit rusty at Apex. I probably won't rock him in tournament this time, but depending on the matchup or if I'm sure I'm going to get wrecked anyway, maybe I'll bust him out for you guys. :D

Can't wait to see! I have some matches uploaded. Would I be able to get some critique on them at all? And thanks a ton for the lengthy response, I took good note of your advice

 

[Taj278]

I don't know how long it took for me to do any "ATs" to me, they were just stuff I ended up doing. The teleport stall didn't take too long to do consistently. I just happened to do it so much that I got faster at it until I could maintain full invincibility. I still can't do it consistently on Brinstar through the lava though unless I'm just hyper focused. I can do it with my eyes closed though with different angles. :D

DJCs just took a bit of training mode time going back and forth across FD. I mostly just did stuff then I practiced doing everything together to make it seamless as I transition from one thing to another so I was always prepared to do what I needed to do depending one the situation.

If I just down throw > forward tilted someone, and I saw they were going to the ledge I could take their cookies without thinking about it. (Those Super Ultra Ninja Cookies) Just like with any character, you just practice until you can do something as fast as possible and then find a way to always do it that quickly no matter what situation you're in.

It's why all the top players of their respective characters overcome so many matchups. (See Axe, Armada, Shroomed, Wobbles, etc). Their characters have more limitations than Fox/Falco, but by minimizing their lag and removing common vulnerabilities and making their characters move as soon as possible as they transition from one thing to the next, they create more opportunities to build percentage and take stocks.

It's why I can beat so many Marths with Mewtwo. EVEN Mewtwo can slip through Marth's sword with the right timing while punishing more options than normal with the right shield DI and spacing.

 

[The Phenom]

Hey Taj, have you messed around canceling your shadow ball and turning around quickly from it to a shadow claw? I used the technique against my friends Falcon and it combo'ed well. It also seems to work well against other characters. I just want to know what you know about this, I really believe it works.

-I'll probably post a video on it after I release my video(MEWTWO COMBO VIDEO!!!) on Saturday.

edit: thanks.

 

[Taj278]

Too many motions. Mewtwo's shadow ball cancel takes a long time. Any player that knows what they're doing won't get hit by a straight forward air, let alone one from a turn around shadow ball cancel.

But go ahead and show me what you're talking about. I'm open to the idea, I just don't see it working consistently because anything that requires that many frames to execute one combo starter is generally not good.

 

[rjgbadger]

lol trying to imply that mewtwo has a shine with his shadow ball cancel

 

[Shadow Huan]

mewtwo should have a Rest hitbox on hit tail attacks

 

[stingers]

yo he should though. thatd be too good.
I hope mewtwo is in project m. that seems like it'll be the only chance to use him viably with smash 4 not being very likely...

 

[Shadow Huan]

he'd be the only melee vet who'd need a ground up reworking imo

 

[Gimpyfish62]

taj just play mewtwo and beat good players like the good ol days and i'll promise to do the same with bowser

how's that for a deal, eh?



and kline i know your'e likely to read that

so keep at the mewtwo man

we dont need any more whatever other characters you play in washington but we DO need a mewtwo

 

[Stijn]

I agree with Gimpyfish, some epic M2 and Boozer **** would be amazing!

 

[The Phenom]

Too many motions. Mewtwo's shadow ball cancel takes a long time. Any player that knows what they're doing won't get hit by a straight forward air, let alone one from a turn around shadow ball cancel.

But go ahead and show me what you're talking about. I'm open to the idea, I just don't see it working consistently because anything that requires that many frames to execute one combo starter is generally not good.

I see, appreciate the response.

 

[Shadow Huan]

Gimpyfish your avatar is boss

 

[The Phenom]

Video is out guys

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=241669

 

[Taj278]

Nice vid. :D It's good to see more Mewtwos taking cookies.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Taj I think you missed my questions about Apex.

It would be great if you answered them :D

If you're on stream you HAVE to play Mewtwo in at least 1 game.

Are you doing anything to practice for Apex? You should try and repeat the Genesis 2 performance

And are you entering teams? If so, who are you teaming with? If not, why not?

Good luck at Apex :D

 

[Taj278]

I'm not doing much practice. Just playing with Tai every other week.

I'll see what I can do about the Genesis 2 performance, but I went into that tournament with just as little practice, lol.

I'm teaming with Lord Woobless (Wobbles)

Thank you. :D

 

[Stijn]

I'm not doing much practice. Just playing with Tai every other week.

I'll see what I can do about the Genesis 2 performance, but I went into that tournament with just as little practice, lol.

I'm teaming with Lord Woobless (Wobbles)

Thank you. :D

YEES I really like that team

 

[The Phenom]

Nice vid. :D It's good to see more Mewtwos taking cookies.

I'm glad that you watched it.

 

[Shadow Huan]

that's a pretty good video Phenom

sort of underedited, but good clips and a few interesting setups

you did indeed take lots of cookies, good stuff :D


i should finish up my secret project lol, gotta have more than one new mewtwo video on here

 

[The Phenom]

that's a pretty good video Phenom

sort of underedited, but good clips and a few interesting setups

you did indeed take lots of cookies, good stuff :D


i should finish up my secret project lol, gotta have more than one new mewtwo video on here

Thanks man

 

[DJLO]

Hey Taj. theres a tourney coming up in my town and i plan on repping mewtwo. had a few more questions for you

i saw a video the other day in which you pulled off a dthrow-jab-disable. is that a real combo? if so, thats a serious twobirdsonestone, situation(making the jab AND the disable usable moves)

also, in one of the shadowclaw vids, i saw you lightshield on the edge of yoshis story, get hit by marths dolphin slash, and get pushed off into a ledge grab. are there any other situation specific tricks that i should be aware of(especially against the top 4 characters)? i know of at least one other, grabbing fox on the edge and letting him break free(i did this the other day at casuals at got an easy gimp kill)

thats all that i can think of for now. thanks for the help

edit: i knew i had 3 questions. third one: since mewtwo is so slippery, it can be hard to shieldgrab people when they use heavy air attacks(ganons fair, for instance, always makes me slide back). what should i do in this situation? powershield? spotdodge? wavdash/moonwalk?

thanks

edit2: one last thing: does mewtwo have IASA frames?

 

[Taj.0]

Hey I'm a decent mewtwo player, but the one thing that holds me back is i can't figure out how to incorporate neutral air into my playing, any idea what could help? Thanks in advance.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Lol. My dude. Im def down to keep repping the low tier. Ive got just one more real life thing to take care of in the super imediate future and then im going to put hard focus into improving my smash.

Taj...ill def be hitting u up...i feel like ive forgotten so much.

taj just play mewtwo and beat good players like the good ol days and i'll promise to do the same with bowser

how's that for a deal, eh?



and kline i know your'e likely to read that

so keep at the mewtwo man

we dont need any more whatever other characters you play in washington but we DO need a mewtwo

 

[Shadow Huan]

Hey Taj. theres a tourney coming up in my town and i plan on repping mewtwo. had a few more questions for you

i saw a video the other day in which you pulled off a dthrow-jab-disable. is that a real combo? if so, thats a serious twobirdsonestone, situation(making the jab AND the disable usable moves)

not Taj, but i can answer these questions lol. if you're referring to the Dthrow-jab-disable thing i think you are, it's a reset, not really a "combo" in the typical sense. and if they miss a tech, it does work :D

also, in one of the shadowclaw vids, i saw you lightshield on the edge of yoshis story, get hit by marths dolphin slash, and get pushed off into a ledge grab. are there any other situation specific tricks that i should be aware of(especially against the top 4 characters)? i know of at least one other, grabbing fox on the edge and letting him break free(i did this the other day at casuals at got an easy gimp kill)

the lightshield edgehog is something that every character can do to marth (even marth lol) except for maybe yoshi.

the easy gimp usually works if they're at a high enough %, at a lower % a player who knows what to expect can recover

you can disable marth from a good distance away when he wiffs lol

taj can give you some character specific tips tho, his gimmics are better than mine (and every other mewtwo lol)

thats all that i can think of for now. thanks for the help

edit: i knew i had 3 questions. third one: since mewtwo is so slippery, it can be hard to shieldgrab people when they use heavy air attacks(ganons fair, for instance, always makes me slide back). what should i do in this situation? powershield? spotdodge? wavdash/moonwalk?

wavedash and teleport OoS are generally the safest, depends on the character tho

edit2: one last thing: does mewtwo have IASA frames?

http://www.angelfire.com/games5/superdoodleman/Mewtwo_frames_11.6.05.txt

the frame data thread here is missing the IASA stuff, it's in there. Dsmash has the best ones

Hey I'm a decent mewtwo player, but the one thing that holds me back is i can't figure out how to incorporate neutral air into my playing, any idea what could help? Thanks in advance.

it's generally a good attack to rack up damage with, dtilt to nair on most floaties works okay, DJC Nair OoS can be a good "get off me" move against some characters, it can even be used as an edgeguard (one will be in my video, taj has a few in SCIV)

 

[DJLO]

snip

thanks so much man! especially for the link!

 

[Taj.0]

Ok, thank you shadow human! Also I hear wavedashing is important along with chaingrab, is it a good idea to try and link a chain grab>dtilt>nair?

 

[Shadow Huan]

shadow HUAN if you please lol

if they don't DI or DI the dilt up or towards you, you can get a nair with that combination, sure

if they DI away you might be able to fair, depends on the % and the character they're using

not sure what you mean by combining wavedashing with chaingrabbing tho lol

 

[Taj.0]

Sorry didn't mean to type that xD my problem just stems that from whenever i chaingrab with d tilt i get sex kicked b4 i can grab -_- that...and im a complete tard on using n air i just can never connect every hit.

 

[Shadow Huan]

well nair is somewhat DI dependant, and mewtwo doesn't have dthrow chaingrabs on anyone but himself (thanks go to taj for that strat).

also dtilt to regrab isn't good against floaties at anything but low %s iirc, it's a good combo against spacies/falcon tho

 

[Taj.0]

T.T **** that means i have to remake my WHOLE style of mewtwo.

 

[Shadow Huan]

what is your style of mewtwo in a nutshell?

 

[Taj.0]

Mainly a hit and run style that relies heavily on aerials and chaingrabs.....at least what i call a chaingrab, if you have any suggestions feel free to say them, i need all the help i can get.

 

[Shadow Huan]

it'd be easier to give you insight with videos of you playing matches.

a hit and run style is okay if you have total control over the teleport, but even then it can't just be that. you have to fluidly weave in and out of your opponent's space and take advantage over every chance you get to do damage. as opposed to attempting to chainthrow, get good at techchasing. learn all the mewtwo stuff you can, watch videos ect.

i wish i had some recent stuff to show myself, i haven't recorded any melee stuff since early last summer :/

 

[stingers]

mewtwo really cant play campy, in the traditional run away sense, he really just has to bide his time and mess with his opponents spacing until he can get a hit and then PUSH THAT MOMENTUM TO ALL HOLY HELL until you're forced to back off and reset and try to get in again.

mewtwos mostly defensive, but you show it through your spacing, not your projectile usage. but when you go in...you best go in hard.

 

[Taj.0]

Well the good news I finally found what i was missing :D, shield grabbing!