SWF GYM:(Injuries abound XD)

[theeboredone]

Patinator, start eating 1500-1700 calories per day. You can find out how much you eat when you look at the nutrition fact for each item. Either look on the box or google it. Also, eat 4-5 small meals a day since that will speed up your metabolism.

 

[Riddle]

Fat doesn't get replaced, it's always there. The muscle simply dominates the area where your fat originally was. The only way to get rid of fat is proper nutrition and a good program designed to burn said fat. You can't control where you burn the fat, so if you're hoping for six pack abs, the fat may first have to come off in other areas (arms, thighs, butt, etc)

Its not like I havent done ANY research. I know spot-reduction is a myth, and that replacing muscle with fat is done by losing fat and gaining muscle not like chemically altering the fat to become muscle, I just want to know the best ways (given my constraints which are in my original post) to lose fat and gain muscle.

 

[theeboredone]

It is very difficult to lose fat and put on muscle at the same time. Putting on muscle = 3000+ calories. Losing fat = 1500 calories. When you lift weights, you are basically tearing the muscles inside you apart. After the workout, they need time to rebuild with proper nutrition. This is where a good amount of protein (1.5x your body weight is a good start), carbs (energy), and healthy fats come in handy. If you're feeding yourself only 2500 calories, chances are you aren't gonna see any results or gains. You may initially through a "beginner's gains", but overall it is not the way to go.

Honestly, you have to decide which one you want to do first, then go from there.

 

[Teran]

Whats the best way to replace fat with muscle?

Mixture of cardio and strength training imo.

 

[Chill]

Are you speaking of 18spikes? If so... basically he went from chunky to sexy.

Congradulate him. :D

Need help with anything? Shmot's got a killer starter workout if you're a newbie.

Where can I find shmot's workout? You can officially add me to the list, I've already started but this should give me extra motivation and information.

Do you guys have any creatine recommendations? What do you use? Is there any significant difference between them?

 

[TigerWoods]

Where can I find shmot's workout? You can officially add me to the list, I've already started but this should give me extra motivation and information.

Do you guys have any creatine recommendations? What do you use? Is there any significant difference between them?

http://www.gamerhold.com/forum/index.php?topic=17149.0

I'm going to add this to the OP. The OP needs some updating as well... but give me time for that... I'm a bit busy xD.

I don't use creatine myself... but that's just because I have a dwindling supply of money. Hopefully someone else can answer that question. I'll read up on it for you.

 

[Chill]

http://www.gamerhold.com/forum/index.php?topic=17149.0

I'm going to add this to the OP. The OP needs some updating as well... but give me time for that... I'm a bit busy xD.

I don't use creatine myself... but that's just because I have a dwindling supply of money. Hopefully someone else can answer that question. I'll read up on it for you.

What about whey protein powders? Same questions there.

I haven't been supplementing myself with anything, thus far I've just been using natural sources i.e. almonds and stuf.

 

[theeboredone]

There are whey protein supplements that are designed for what goals you want (weight gain, getting ripped, etc). My personal preference is to make your own. You save money and it's more natural. If you're too lazy and you want something to help you put on weight while tasting good, get Cytogainer. 54 grams of protein (mixed with 16 oz of milk gives you 80 grams), 70 somethin Carbs I think, and all the vitamins and minerals your body needs.

I just make my own protein shake though. I buy Optimum Nutrition Chocolate Protein. The powder has 24 grams of protein. From there, I add two tbsp of peanut butter (protein and good fat), a banana (carbs), 16 oz fat free milk, and 1 cup of oatmeal. All in all it's 600+ calories and is **** healthy. Tastes good too. Plus it's cheaper too.

Protein Shakes just help you get the protein your body needs. Often times it can be hard to get the desired amount of grams when you're eating only natural foods.

 

[Attila_]

It is very difficult to lose fat and put on muscle at the same time. Putting on muscle = 3000+ calories. Losing fat = 1500 calories. When you lift weights, you are basically tearing the muscles inside you apart. After the workout, they need time to rebuild with proper nutrition. This is where a good amount of protein (1.5x your body weight is a good start), carbs (energy), and healthy fats come in handy. If you're feeding yourself only 2500 calories, chances are you aren't gonna see any results or gains. You may initially through a "beginner's gains", but overall it is not the way to go.

Honestly, you have to decide which one you want to do first, then go from there.

just slow down there for a sec... have you actually done any legitimate research into this one? there is plenty of evidence supporting the opposite, actually.

Where can I find shmot's workout? You can officially add me to the list, I've already started but this should give me extra motivation and information.

Do you guys have any creatine recommendations? What do you use? Is there any significant difference between them?

creatine monohydrate is the only one clinically proven to work. and it also happens to be the cheapest. go figure.

There are whey protein supplements that are designed for what goals you want (weight gain, getting ripped, etc). My personal preference is to make your own. You save money and it's more natural. If you're too lazy and you want something to help you put on weight while tasting good, get Cytogainer. 54 grams of protein (mixed with 16 oz of milk gives you 80 grams), 70 somethin Carbs I think, and all the vitamins and minerals your body needs.

I just make my own protein shake though. I buy Optimum Nutrition Chocolate Protein. The powder has 24 grams of protein. From there, I add two tbsp of peanut butter (protein and good fat), a banana (carbs), 16 oz fat free milk, and 1 cup of oatmeal. All in all it's 600+ calories and is **** healthy. Tastes good too. Plus it's cheaper too.

Protein Shakes just help you get the protein your body needs. Often times it can be hard to get the desired amount of grams when you're eating only natural foods.

this doesn't take types of protein into account at all. for instance, the type of protein recommended after the gym is completely different to that recommended before bed (ignoring adding/subtracting carbohydrates). i don't think you'd have the proper facilities to distinguish or facilitate those differences at home, and as such, just recommend buying them.

 

[nux23]

Hey, um, I haven't been here in quite a while, so I have two questions...
1: How do I run without all this pain I feel? after just a minute or two it hurts too much...
2: How can I get myself to eat food I hate...?

 

[TigerWoods]

Hey, um, I haven't been here in quite a while, so I have two questions...
1: How do I run without all this pain I feel? after just a minute or two it hurts too much...
2: How can I get myself to eat food I hate...?

Um. What kind of pain do you feel? I suggest asking your doctor about it as he/she could help you better than I could. If heavy impact exercises such as running are too painful... maybe low impact exercises would be better for you (I.E. Swimming).

As for getting yourself to eat food you hate... each one of us has our own tricks. It usually is possible to obtain equivalent nutrients from a different food source if you look around as well. Try changing up how it's cooked... etc.

 

[nux23]

Let me try to clear up what I said,
1: After I jog about 1/3 of a mile, the pain in my knees makes me stop...
2: I hate eating meat, but I don't want to...

 

[theeboredone]

just slow down there for a sec... have you actually done any legitimate research into this one? there is plenty of evidence supporting the opposite, actually.


this doesn't take types of protein into account at all. for instance, the type of protein recommended after the gym is completely different to that recommended before bed (ignoring adding/subtracting carbohydrates). i don't think you'd have the proper facilities to distinguish or facilitate those differences at home, and as such, just recommend buying them.

First of all, yes I have. It is very difficult to burn fat while putting on gains. It also comes through personal experience as well. That's why most builders have the terms "bulking" and "cutting". It's very difficult to do both at once, and is not recommended for someone who is just starting to work out or is just the average gym guy.

And I know what types of protein you are talking about. Casein is used before you go to bed, and milk is a very good source of casein. In any case, it really shouldn't matter once again unless you are super serious into body building. We are average people here who just want to see gains and put up results. As long as they manage to get the right amount of protein in, they shouldn't be too worried about what "kind" of protein they get.

 

[M.K]

I'm so....I feel your pain nux23.
After 8 years of springboard diving, I've developed severe patellar tendonitis in my right knee, and runner's knee in my left knee. The pain of running is absolutely excruciating, and I'm insanely embarrassed because I KNOW I limp slightly and ...ugh =(

 

[Mugen Infinity]

First of all, yes I have. It is very difficult to burn fat while putting on gains. It also comes through personal experience as well. That's why most builders have the terms "bulking" and "cutting". It's very difficult to do both at once, and is not recommended for someone who is just starting to work out or is just the average gym guy.

And I know what types of protein you are talking about. Casein is used before you go to bed, and milk is a very good source of casein. In any case, it really shouldn't matter once again unless you are super serious into body building. We are average people here who just want to see gains and put up results. As long as they manage to get the right amount of protein in, they shouldn't be too worried about what "kind" of protein they get.

Oh boy.... in your post a few posts ago, you say people can't lose fat and gain muscle at the same time, THEN you say it's not recommended for average lifters. Which one is it?
btw, "research" doesn't count as you trying to do it and failing. Your personal experience (or lack thereof) doesn't prove or disprove anything. C'mon now.

 

[Chill]

@Shmot & theeboredone, sorry I guess I wasn't being clear. I meant are there certain brands that I should be buying or are they all basically the same?

Mugen, he said it was difficult not impossible.

 

[theeboredone]

Oh boy.... in your post a few posts ago, you say people can't lose fat and gain muscle at the same time, THEN you say it's not recommended for average lifters. Which one is it?
btw, "research" doesn't count as you trying to do it and failing. Your personal experience (or lack thereof) doesn't prove or disprove anything. C'mon now.

You might wanna re-read that post you're talking about. As Chill said, I said it's extremely difficult to do both at the same time. Which hand in hand goes with, not recommended for the average lifter.

Also, I know research is not my own body alone, but I've also done my research by asking/reading people from gym veterans to athletes to beginners. Been doing it for years now.

www.bodybuilding.com Search any thread talking about burning fat while making gains, and they will tell you straight up it's really difficult and not recommended.

This link explains it pretty well. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=401681611#post401681611

@Chill, personally, I don't have much experience with that many brands out there. I've only tried EAS, CytoSport, and Optimum Nutrition Products. All three are "big" brands, and I've found my best success with ON, mainly because it pushes you to make your own shakes with the powder. There are brands out there that sell for cheap or are unknown, but I highly recommend you read customer reviews or search up on it. Some protein supplements are better than others based on what else they have in it (not just carbs and fats, but the ingredients). I'm no expert in that field per say, but like I said, just google.

Edit: I would just like to say that I am no "expert" or "professional", but I am simply giving advice based on my experiences and what I've learned from others. It's up to you if you want to take my word or not, but I don't enjoy being called out to be some kind of moron when all I'm doing is trying to help a person. It's one thing to have a rational argument or discussion, but it's another when you start mocking or insulting me.

 

[Attila_]

yeah, mugen beat me to the point.

although i will say that that isn't really what i'd classify as research... i look up clinical trials, randomized control studies and cochrane studies before i go around giving open advice like that.

your point is a little confused, you'd have to admit.

in any case, even among casein protein there are large differences, and some are significantly better than others. not to mention the fact that because they are digested over several hours, casein protein after the gym will produce an extremely minimal insulin spike, drastically altering your ability to gain.

@chill: in terms of branding, try not to get too hung up on it. its all about whats on the inside. with creatine, just try and find something that isn't some sort of blend, but rather, just a straight monohydrate. i typically get the gnc one (namely cause its exactly what i want and its cheap).

 

[theeboredone]

Fair enough, your research is more legitimate, but like I said, all I'm doing is trying to help. In the end, it's up to them if they want to take my advice or not. There are very few people like you who go down to the nitty gritty details of what's considered proper for what situation. With that being said, none of us are here to become bodybuilders or professional competitors by any means. If they are, they are on the wrong site. For the most part, I've given general advice that is often said by many people who know a thing or two about exercising. You go by research and proper results and I go by word of mouth and results. Yours is better, but I still trust my sources, because it has worked for me, my friends, and others who I've spoken too.

With all that being said, I'm still gonna give out what I'm comfortable about speaking. If people follow the general concept, they will have results. Will they have the optimum results according to what your knowledge is based on? No, of course not, but it's definitely better than having nothing.

 

[deepseadiva]

I for one highly appreciate Tiger's, Shmot's, Theeboredone's, and everybody else's opinions in this thread. It's really great having this at least minimally educated group here on a video game site. It's really convenient and awesome.

Thanks guys.

It's cuz this thread I push just a teeny bit more.

 

[M.K]

I would post my before pictures, that would probably motivate me extremely...but I'm embarrassed, and I know that's a stupid thing to say, but....sometimes I wonder if I'll ever even HAVE "after" pictures.

 

[TigerWoods]

I for one highly appreciate Tiger's, Shmot's, Theeboredone's, and everybody else's opinions in this thread. It's really great having this at least minimally educated group here on a video game site. It's really convenient and awesome.

Thanks guys.

It's cuz this thread I push just a teeny bit more.

Haha no problem Meno. Facts are best to go by though

Keep working!

I would post my before pictures, that would probably motivate me extremely...but I'm embarrassed, and I know that's a stupid thing to say, but....sometimes I wonder if I'll ever even HAVE "after" pictures.

You don't need to post if you're uncomfortable haha. It's just a marker for you if you're the kind of person who would be motivated by it.

And doubt = bad. Of course you will! Usually the more you think you will the more you will... lol

 

[Jim Morrison]

I would be disappointed in myself if I posted semi-nudes of me on the internet so I guess I'm not gonna do that. Otherwise I would, looking good so far IMO.

 

[Omis]

Have you guys heard anything about or tried nitric oxide?

 

[Thundermistress]

Let me try to clear up what I said,
1: After I jog about 1/3 of a mile, the pain in my knees makes me stop...
2: I hate eating meat, but I don't want to...

To address point 1 - as Tiger said, seeing a doctor is probably not a bad idea, if you do have a problem, you may end up needing orthopedics, which will make running a lot more comfortable later on as well.

In the short term, what are you jogging in? Do your sneakers provide enough support to your ankles and knees? I was jogging in sneakers from oasis that were more street wear than sports wear for a year or so then went out and bought sneakers from New Balance which are designed for running. Makes the biggest difference.

 

[TigerWoods]

To address point 1 - as Tiger said, seeing a doctor is probably not a bad idea, if you do have a problem, you may end up needing orthopedics, which will make running a lot more comfortable later on as well.

In the short term, what are you jogging in? Do your sneakers provide enough support to your ankles and knees? I was jogging in sneakers from oasis that were more street wear than sports wear for a year or so then went out and bought sneakers from New Balance which are designed for running. Makes the biggest difference.

TM has graced the Gym!

@ Sepiroth honestly, don't aim for abs. Good looking abs just come along as an added perk after you get healthier. There really isn't a "fast" trick to getting them.

Just follow the full body workouts mentioned in the thread and you should get to where you need to be :D.

Remember... we work out to be healthy and because it is fun. All that other nonsense about looking great etc. is just added perks that come with everything!

^People with this mindset tend to not fail.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Checked the scoobydoo website, it sounds like something I can do.

 

[Attila_]

Have you guys heard anything about or tried nitric oxide?

little evidence to support that it makes you stronger; if you're after a solid pump and more vascular appearance, try arginine instead.

 

[Omis]

The product that I am looking at also contains arginine.
To my knowledge all this does is spread your muscles further apart after a workout to increase blood flow to them to allow faster recovery. Am I correct?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I could easily join this in an attempt to build muscle. I eat over 4000 calories a day and play 3+ hours of tennis but I'm extremely skinny. Hopefully with some of these guides I'll start getting muscle.

 

[KevinM]

Stuck for a week without any physical activity le sigh.

 

[Teran]

The product that I am looking at also contains arginine.
To my knowledge all this does is spread your muscles further apart after a workout to increase blood flow to them to allow faster recovery. Am I correct?

Arginine is just an amino acid.

Anyway it can help lower recovery time since as an amino acid it's used to chain up and help repair damaged tissue.

 

[eighteenspikes]

Stuck for a week without any physical activity le sigh.

im about to start my seventh week in a cast

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Actually, building more muscle will help me with bboy and dance, too. :3

 

[Attila_]

The product that I am looking at also contains arginine.
To my knowledge all this does is spread your muscles further apart after a workout to increase blood flow to them to allow faster recovery. Am I correct?

it more so works by widening your blood vessels, allowing more blood to flow through them. not sure whether this effect lingers long enough to effect recovery noticeably, though.

 

[Chill]

@chill: in terms of branding, try not to get too hung up on it. its all about whats on the inside. with creatine, just try and find something that isn't some sort of blend, but rather, just a straight monohydrate. i typically get the gnc one (namely cause its exactly what i want and its cheap).

Yeah, I found a nice cheap one but I looked up consumer reviews before I got it. The all said the same thing 'this one is awesome but I prefer ON', "I keep a case of this for when I run out of ON', 'when I can't afford ON I buy this'.

XD Works for me.

I think this should be my last question for awhile, you said that the body can only process a certain amount of protein at a time. How many grams of protein should I aim to consume everyday? Are there any negative side affects to eating "too much", feeling sick, etc?

Spoiler

That's two questions shhhh

 

[theeboredone]

Drink plenty of water, balance your body out with carbs and some good fats (putting flax seed into some dishes is a good source. If you don't have that, peanut butter, almonds, peanuts, fish, etc). Protein should be based on 1.5-2x your lean body weight. So if you weigh 100 lbs, and you are 20% body fat, you would be 80 lbs of lean body weight. So at m ost, you would consume 160 grams of protein throughout the day.

 

[Attila_]

I think this should be my last question for awhile, you said that the body can only process a certain amount of protein at a time. How many grams of protein should I aim to consume everyday? Are there any negative side affects to eating "too much", feeling sick, etc?

realistically, no one knows for sure. i mean, given all the genetic and lifestyles factors that differ between individuals, how can anyone really say?

that being said, for bodybuilding, several studies recommend consuming approximately 1 gram per pound of bodyweight. that being said, there really isn't evidence saying that this is the perfect amount, nor is their evidence saying that none of that protein is going to waste. I suppose to think about it like a caveman, the more protein you eat, the bigger you'll get. if you wanna get massive, am for the above figure, otherwise, just focus on consuming some protein everytime you eat during the day.

as far as side effects go, the most direct are bloating and gas. typically, whey protein concentrates and calcium caseinate are two proteins with a rather nasty reputation for promoting these. that being said, a supplement called 'bromelain' (derived from pineapples) is supposed to assist with the digestion and relieve the pressure.

in regards to the long term, no one can say definitively. some studies have shown that a high protein diet is consistent with liver dysfunction later in life, while others have disproven it. at this point, there is no study that seems to take into account everything, and do it for a long enough period of time. so with that out of the way, i can tell you that it might be bad for your liver. maybe. but i do recommend taking a course of liver herbs (namely milk thistle) every 6-12 months just to help 'clean out' your liver. better to be safe than sorry.

 

[CAOTIC]

Guess whose back from his winter slumber~

I've hit the gym again!

Shmot, Thundermistress and I should meet up for a gym sesh and do a video guide to working out :D :D :D

 

[CAOTIC]

*mistake post*