Super Smash Bros. Infinite Project (Finally Finished!???)

[Adrianette Bromide]

Turnabout Smash has to be the pack name omg it's too perfect!

 

[Yiptap]

Turnabout Smash has to be the pack name omg it's too perfect!

I was thinking something more along the lines of "The Infinite Tutnabout".

 

[GolisoPower]

The bigger question here is how much we would take from his appearance in MvC3 and how much we just make up on the spot. Joker had a lot of potential for his moveset with Persona 4 Arena despite not appearing in that, and yet he turned out to be an original take. I'm just a bit curious now since making a moveset for him only seems easy but in reality almost sounds kind of difficult.

As for the pack name, I think calling it the "Dueling Destinies Bundle" would be perfect.

Also, wouldn't it be cool if each fighter had their own breakdown animations if they were caught in what Phoenix's Final Smash would be?

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Considering Phoenix himself is a base game spirit are we going to give him a separate one as a fighter just like Min Min and Pyra?

That will be the route we probably will go with.

Congrats to Blaze Heatnix!!

 

[Commander_Alph]

Yeah, plus maybe an upgraded form for Edgeworth (like with Rex) because he would definitely not be an Advanced class if we have Phoenix as a fighter.

Neat, considering he uses his art from the original trilogy I'd imagine the fighter spirit be from either the remake trilogy or the Apollo Justice games for more variety.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Congrats to the real winner, Phoenix Wright!


Now, we will hold off on gameplay and moveset submissions for the time being as I am interested in hearing how you all personally think Pheonix will play as giving his unique lawyer-based abilities. Here are a few questions I want to pose on everyone as we proceed forward...

What sort of gimmicks should phoenix utilize?
How much should this gimmick, if any, should be tied to the character?
How much should we pull from Marvel vs Capcom version?
How should Phoenix's stats look like?

Here are some videos to help us get the ball rolling...

Here is Phoenix in Marvel vs Cacpom 3

While it may not help, here is a since-thrown away moveset writeup I did for Smashboards News that I shelved as I focused on this thread

 

[Champion of Hyrule]

I think we can essentially just take the evidence gimmick from UMvC3. It’ll feel different enough since this is in a platform fighter. We could have it so that he grows stronger by collecting evidence and might even change some of his moves if he has more evidence, but some of his evidence will be illegitimate and marked in gray. We could have it so that in this game he taunts to get rid of evidence.

 

[GolisoPower]

I imagine Phoenix's playstyle being a defensive counter character who basically builds up power, scouts out for an opening and exploits it to hefty reward. He would be a very light character since he looks lanky enough to have a weight value somewhere in the upper-80's, and he would not exactly be mobile thanks to him not moving much during court trials.

Out of everything, I think we could adapt Phoenix's Evidence mechanic from UMvC3, as that would be the crux of turning a fight around. However, I think we could make it slightly Smash-original. His Down Special I imagine would be called, "Collect Evidence". This would be a move that changes the properties of his Specials and attacks not just based on who he's facing, but also based on what kind of Evidence he's collected. We could put fighters into 4 separate categories based on their playstyle (Characters with keepaway or armor like the Belmonts or K. Rool would fall under Defense, which could be countered by something like a knife, while characters with high mobility like Sonic or Fox would fall under Speed, which could be countered by an autopsy report, for example). As for what we could collect as evidence, I think UMvC3 gives us a good list of what we could adapt and transform into unique move-enhancing things.

 

[Deleted member]

I find that this video has a pretty good take on how Phoenix works in court, and how it could translate into a fighting/platform fighter.

While I kind of don't want to copy/paste everything from UMVC3 into Infinte, I think that Maya should play somewhere in his moveset/animations, considering how important the assistant is to each protagonist.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

I think his Magatama should come into play. For those who don't know, Phoenix has a mystical Magatama that basically acts a lie detector by magically presenting uo to 5 red coloured locks that only Phoenix Wright can see. The "Psyche Locks" tell you how important that secret is and how hard they are trying to keep it. Your goal is to try and break them and expose their lies. It was introduced first in AA2: Spirit of Justice as a means of having more gameplay outside of courtroom battles.

 

[GolisoPower]

How would Cross-Examination work in Smash, I wonder? That's a particularly important phase during Trials in Ace Attorney, and we should at the very least include something about them. Maybe it's a Side Special that reads the last few moves an opponent has used, and Phoenix can pick one of them to either debuff that input or put them at a disadvantage the next time they use it or something?

I think his Magatama should come into play. For those who don't know, Phoenix has a mystical Magatama that basically acts a lie detector by magically presenting uo to 5 red coloured locks that only Phoenix Wright can see. The "Psyche Locks" tell you how important that secret is and how hard they are trying to keep it. Your goal is to try and break them and expose their lies. It was introduced first in AA2: Spirit of Justice as a means of having more gameplay outside of courtroom battles.

Now I wonder how we could implement that into Smash. Maybe some sort of unique Scintilla-style move that has devastating effects if landed 5 times in a match?

 

[ivanlerma]

Hey he still did pretty well! There's hope for a future round.

I Wonder What Venus would say though considering characters don't usually get another chance for a while.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Let's be real here: Not including a butt-ton of Ace Attorney tracks (I'm talking at least like, 30) would be an actual crime.

Objection 2001 and Pursuit ~ Cornered also kind of have to be there for legacy purposes. No objections can be made towards this.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

We will begin gameplay proposal submissions in the next new few hours.

 

[Champion of Hyrule]

I think his Magatama should come into play. For those who don't know, Phoenix has a mystical Magatama that basically acts a lie detector by magically presenting uo to 5 red coloured locks that only Phoenix Wright can see. The "Psyche Locks" tell you how important that secret is and how hard they are trying to keep it. Your goal is to try and break them and expose their lies. It was introduced first in AA2: Spirit of Justice as a means of having more gameplay outside of courtroom battles.

They chains would probably work as a grab of something

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

They chains would probably work as a grab of something

I envisioned his grab bringing up a witness stand and he doesn't actually grab anyone. She just proceeds to beat the **** out of his opponent with words.

 

[Yiptap]

The Magatama could probably work as a counter.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

The Magatama could probably work as a counter.

Problem is evidence collecting seems to be a popular idea which definitely suits down B too. Peach's neutral B is a counter though so perhaps Magatama would be his neutral B.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Phoenix Wright Gameplay Submission​

We will be opening up submissions for how Phoenix Wright fights in battle. This isn’t so much a moveset submission but more so a template to base his moveset on.

• Do you think Lhoenix should have a gimmick that’s more so tied to a particular move like Steve, Kazuya, or Cloud?
• Do you think Phoenix should have a character gimmick more in line with Bowser, Lucario, or Ryu?
• Do you think Phoenix shouldn’t have any gimmicks?

If you want to submit a gimmick tied to a particular move, please provide what move that would be and it will be factored into moveset submissions if it wins.

Also, please provide the following stats:

• Size
• Weight
• Dash Speed
• Jump

 

[Yiptap]

Problem is evidence collecting seems to be a popular idea which definitely suits down B too. Peach's neutral B is a counter though so perhaps Magatama would be his neutral B.

Then scrap the Magatama idea, Objection speech bubble has to be neutral b.
(Then again, I don’t really like the evidence mechanic and it’s pretty much a direct copy from MvC3, so maybe we could scrap that?)

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Phoenix Wright Stats:
Size: Tall like Snake
Weight: Heavy like Mii Brawler
Dash Speed: Slower than Mario
Jump: Jump height lower than Mario (He is a person that has realistic physics)

 

[Deleted member]

I have played exactly 1 Ace Attorney game so I'm hardly an expert but some form of evidence mechanic does feel kind of core to the character and series

 

[Champion of Hyrule]

His gimmick would be similar to Turnabout mode from UMvC3 but it's a little different. Basically, he can collect evidence using his down special and he has three evidence slots.
There's a 50% chance that the evidence he grabs will be useless and if so, it'll look dark in his evidence slots. If so, he has to taunt to get rid of it. Up taunt gets rid of the first piece, side taunt gets rid of the second and down taunt gets rid of the third. The more evidence he has the stronger his attacks will be and some moves will change depending on how much evidence he has. After around 15 seconds, one piece the evidence he has will disappear and he'll have to use his down special again to get it back. However, if he has three pieces of evidence they'll all disappear at once instead of just one piece after the 15 seconds. The evidence resets after a KO.

 

[GolisoPower]

Alrighty then, I'll give it a shot:

I think his gimmick could serve to be sort of similar to his UMvC3 counterpart, however, for Smash it would be most certainly different: basically, he would collect Evidence using Down Special, which he can use to passively change his stats, with Good Evidence providing beneficial effects such as increased weight or dodge frames, and Bad Evidence providing detrimental effects such as slower frame data and lower jump height. He can then use a Neutral Special Stance to give you the option to either throw away certain pieces of evidence as weak projectiles or, if he possesses three pieces of Good Evidence, enter a Trial State, which will change his attacks based on which piece of evidence he possesses. For example, the Knife would give Phoenix's attacks increased hitstun, while the Cell Phone will give his attacks amazing disjointed hitboxes. This can also work against you in some cases, and some Bad Evidence can involve items from other franchises in Smash such as a Magic Materia giving attacks recoil damage or a Honeycomb from Banjo & Kazooie doubling his attacks' frame data. The Trial State will only last for a duration based on how many pieces of Evidence, whether Good or Bad, he possesses. Certain Evidence combinations could benefit you depending on who you're facing, just like how it works in Ace Attorney, but think about when to show your Evidence and you might just find the opening needed to achieve victory.

Stats:
Size: Slightly taller than Joker
Weight: About Sheik's weight
Dash Speed: Normally around Terry's, Becomes Kazuya's after activating Trial Stance.
Jumps: Double-jumps like normal, has jump height comparable to Mythra.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Was busy with many other things yesterday, but as the second character that I submitted to be voted in as playable (as far as I can recall), I could not be more proud of my special lawyer for taking the cake. This really was a perfect job for Wright and I'm truly heart warmed by how much the Ace Attorney won it by.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

Submission: Court Records

Weight: 75 (comparable to Roy)
Height: A little taller than Joker, another average human to compare him to
Running speed: His run speed would be faster than Mario but not by much. He is the definition of an everyman.
Jumps: 2, jump height is 35.6, closest to Wii Fit Trainer (He has canonically gone toe to toe with a monkey, I think he is farely agile), mid air jump is lower though

Phoenix Wright's main gimmick will center around figuring out the right form of evidence against the opponent. How does this concept translate to Smash? Well, think of it like Pac-Man's bonus fruit to the extreme. Wright's neutral special will have him look through his court record's to look for a piece of evidence. The court records have a plethora of items for Wright to choose from based on real pieces of evidence from the Ace Attorney series. Similarly to Pac-Man, he will cycle through his evidence like Bonus Fruit except it will never restart at the first item, rather continuing from where Wright last left off.

These items have all sorts of trajectories and useful effects but the catch is that they can only be used ONCE! To balamce the plethora of evidence Wright will use, each item will be used up when thrown and it isn't picked up in time before it despawns. However, Wright will also have a shield B move that leaves him defenseless but gives him a random piece of evidence. The key to win will be saving the right pieces of evidence for the right moment.

For example, there could be an item based off of the Thinker statue clock from the very first case of the game, The First Turnabout. It could be a useful item that stuns the opponent, letting you go in for the KO. You'd want to wait for a moment when your opponent is at high percentage to use it. Or maybe there's an item that when used increases Wright's speed. This would be useful to extend combos or escape disadvantage.

I'm not sure if some pieces of evidence should recover upon losing a stock or not, that would be decided. Think of it like Hero's command menu without the RNG.

 

[Yiptap]

I've seen evidence be brought up a lot, and if we go for the evidence route, I think it would be nice if the evidence is based off the opponent. (Examples: Mario's hat as evidence against Mario, A banana or tie against DK, a ring against Sonic, etc. This idea was taken from a Brawlfan1 video)

 

[GolisoPower]

I'm not sure if some pieces of evidence should recover upon losing a stock or not, that would be decided. Think of it like Hero's command menu without the RNG.

Maybe a better way to put it would be like a cross between Bonus Fruit and Steve's Mining?

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Which one will you main??

Default	Black Based on Thantos	Purple Based on Dionysus	Green Based on Persephone	Yellow Based on Charon	Pink Based on Aphrodite
Blue Based on Thesus	Dark Blue Based on Magaera	Grey Based on Ares	Orange Based on Hermes	White Based on Skelly	Turquoise Based on the shades in House ofHades

 

[Jomosensual]

Speaking of alt costumes, how do we feel about making some of the other lawyers be alts for Phoenix? Don't think there would be any reason Apollo, Athena, and Ryunosuke couldn't fit as alts. I personally don't care either way but I've seen this idea brought up with the other lawyers quite a bit with Ace Attorney and Smash

 

[Commander_Alph]

Speaking of alt costumes, how do we feel about making some of the other lawyers be alts for Phoenix? Don't think there would be any reason Apollo, Athena, and Ryunosuke couldn't fit as alts. I personally don't care either way but I've seen this idea brought up with the other lawyers quite a bit with Ace Attorney and Smash

I personally prefer to have his pink costume given during college, the one that is also appear in MvC3.

 

[GolisoPower]

I personally prefer to have his pink costume given during college, the one that is also appear in MvC3.

This seems like the best course of action. Besides, Phoenix practically towers over Apollo, Athena, and Ryuunosuke, and honestly it might feel a little more egregious than some of Bowser Jr's alts (I mean, Morton's huge compared to Jr. both canonically and even in Smash).

 

[Commander_Alph]

This seems like the best course of action. Besides, Phoenix practically towers over Apollo, Athena, and Ryuunosuke, and honestly it might feel a little more egregious than some of Bowser Jr's alts (I mean, Morton's huge compared to Jr. both canonically and even in Smash).

And either his homeless attire or his more older look from the Apollo games. I'd honestly prefer that more because it seems like we can't go away from MvC3's influences lol.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm not a fan of the Dual Destinies look as an alt since the colors are so barely different that it's going to be difficult to tell in an 8-player battle. Homeless Phoenix is my preferred choice if we do give him an alt, though I'd limit it to 2-4 colors since I'd rather have variations on his suit.

 

[Commander_Alph]

I'm not a fan of the Dual Destinies look as an alt since the colors are so barely different that it's going to be difficult to tell in an 8-player battle.

I still think his Dual Destinies appearance is a lot more bright compare to his younger look and the fact that he has his button off that show his light blue vest is enough for people to point at the obvious difference, if Smash had told me anything is that dark blue and light blue can coexist on the same color slot but considering this is a costume swap it's easier. But I'm not obliged to choose hobo Phoenix.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I think Miles would be a reasonable alt but that's only due to a certain spoiler in the third game. Homeless Phoenix and College-Outfit Phoenix though would both be great, and obviously his newer trilogy look (though the changes to that are minor)

Apollo and Athena also don't ever use the Magatama so if we want to utilize that then they wouldn't make sense as alts.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I’ll take into account the possibility for alternate costumes when we get to that section. For now, we are still doing the gameplay submissions which will remain open for the next few hours. We will then proceed with voting for them.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Here are the submissions!

His gimmick would be similar to Turnabout mode from UMvC3 but it's a little different. Basically, he can collect evidence using his down special and he has three evidence slots.
There's a 50% chance that the evidence he grabs will be useless and if so, it'll look dark in his evidence slots. If so, he has to taunt to get rid of it. Up taunt gets rid of the first piece, side taunt gets rid of the second and down taunt gets rid of the third. The more evidence he has the stronger his attacks will be and some moves will change depending on how much evidence he has. After around 15 seconds, one piece the evidence he has will disappear and he'll have to use his down special again to get it back. However, if he has three pieces of evidence they'll all disappear at once instead of just one piece after the 15 seconds. The evidence resets after a KO.

Alrighty then, I'll give it a shot:

I think his gimmick could serve to be sort of similar to his UMvC3 counterpart, however, for Smash it would be most certainly different: basically, he would collect Evidence using Down Special, which he can use to passively change his stats, with Good Evidence providing beneficial effects such as increased weight or dodge frames, and Bad Evidence providing detrimental effects such as slower frame data and lower jump height. He can then use a Neutral Special Stance to give you the option to either throw away certain pieces of evidence as weak projectiles or, if he possesses three pieces of Good Evidence, enter a Trial State, which will change his attacks based on which piece of evidence he possesses. For example, the Knife would give Phoenix's attacks increased hitstun, while the Cell Phone will give his attacks amazing disjointed hitboxes. This can also work against you in some cases, and some Bad Evidence can involve items from other franchises in Smash such as a Magic Materia giving attacks recoil damage or a Honeycomb from Banjo & Kazooie doubling his attacks' frame data. The Trial State will only last for a duration based on how many pieces of Evidence, whether Good or Bad, he possesses. Certain Evidence combinations could benefit you depending on who you're facing, just like how it works in Ace Attorney, but think about when to show your Evidence and you might just find the opening needed to achieve victory.

Stats:
Size: Slightly taller than Joker
Weight: About Sheik's weight
Dash Speed: Normally around Terry's, Becomes Kazuya's after activating Trial Stance.
Jumps: Double-jumps like normal, has jump height comparable to Mythra.

Submission: Court Records

Weight: 75 (comparable to Roy)
Height: A little taller than Joker, another average human to compare him to
Running speed: His run speed would be faster than Mario but not by much. He is the definition of an everyman.
Jumps: 2, jump height is 35.6, closest to Wii Fit Trainer (He has canonically gone toe to toe with a monkey, I think he is farely agile), mid air jump is lower though

Phoenix Wright's main gimmick will center around figuring out the right form of evidence against the opponent. How does this concept translate to Smash? Well, think of it like Pac-Man's bonus fruit to the extreme. Wright's neutral special will have him look through his court record's to look for a piece of evidence. The court records have a plethora of items for Wright to choose from based on real pieces of evidence from the Ace Attorney series. Similarly to Pac-Man, he will cycle through his evidence like Bonus Fruit except it will never restart at the first item, rather continuing from where Wright last left off.

These items have all sorts of trajectories and useful effects but the catch is that they can only be used ONCE! To balamce the plethora of evidence Wright will use, each item will be used up when thrown and it isn't picked up in time before it despawns. However, Wright will also have a shield B move that leaves him defenseless but gives him a random piece of evidence. The key to win will be saving the right pieces of evidence for the right moment.

For example, there could be an item based off of the Thinker statue clock from the very first case of the game, The First Turnabout. It could be a useful item that stuns the opponent, letting you go in for the KO. You'd want to wait for a moment when your opponent is at high percentage to use it. Or maybe there's an item that when used increases Wright's speed. This would be useful to extend combos or escape disadvantage.

I'm not sure if some pieces of evidence should recover upon losing a stock or not, that would be decided. Think of it like Hero's command menu without the RNG.

The voting will be help via thread poll.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

I like the idea of OT Phoenix, DD Phoenix, pink sweater and hobonix being 4 alts like Sora.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Welp, judging from the above poll, it looks that Adrianette Bromide is the clear winner. While there is still time left in the poll, the Court Records concept is in the lead with 7 total votes. You can read about this concept down below..

Submission: Court Records

Weight: 75 (comparable to Roy)
Height: A little taller than Joker, another average human to compare him to
Running speed: His run speed would be faster than Mario but not by much. He is the definition of an everyman.
Jumps: 2, jump height is 35.6, closest to Wii Fit Trainer (He has canonically gone toe to toe with a monkey, I think he is farely agile), mid air jump is lower though

Phoenix Wright's main gimmick will center around figuring out the right form of evidence against the opponent. How does this concept translate to Smash? Well, think of it like Pac-Man's bonus fruit to the extreme. Wright's neutral special will have him look through his court record's to look for a piece of evidence. The court records have a plethora of items for Wright to choose from based on real pieces of evidence from the Ace Attorney series. Similarly to Pac-Man, he will cycle through his evidence like Bonus Fruit except it will never restart at the first item, rather continuing from where Wright last left off.

These items have all sorts of trajectories and useful effects but the catch is that they can only be used ONCE! To balamce the plethora of evidence Wright will use, each item will be used up when thrown and it isn't picked up in time before it despawns. However, Wright will also have a shield B move that leaves him defenseless but gives him a random piece of evidence. The key to win will be saving the right pieces of evidence for the right moment.

For example, there could be an item based off of the Thinker statue clock from the very first case of the game, The First Turnabout. It could be a useful item that stuns the opponent, letting you go in for the KO. You'd want to wait for a moment when your opponent is at high percentage to use it. Or maybe there's an item that when used increases Wright's speed. This would be useful to extend combos or escape disadvantage.

I'm not sure if some pieces of evidence should recover upon losing a stock or not, that would be decided. Think of it like Hero's command menu without the RNG.

So before we get into our actual moveset submission, I feel it’s perhaps more appropriate to move into people submitting pieces of evidence that will be included on the neutral special, Evidence

When submitting an evidence, please provide a picture, the name of the evidence, and what the evidence does when used. The evidence should be lifted from the Ace Attorney series and doesn’t have to be directly related to Phoenix (as in evidence doesn’t have to be solely tied to evidence Phoenix used in his games.)