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Super Smash Battle Opera - West Lafayette, IN, USA

PurdueSmash

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 27, 2008
Messages
100
Location
Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN
I wanted to make a clarification for people worrying about the PPR, assuming this was not clear in the rule set. This is specifically towards the concern of not being able to run into the people you need to challenge:

You can challenge ANYONE on the PPR, provided that they accept. The rules for how much higher ranked the person needs to be are for a BINDING challenge (i.e. Where they have to accept no matter what).

I had heard some confusion about this when Little England Challenged Goosefactor for the no.1 rank, despite being ranked 25th before the set, so I hope this clears things up.

- 'Fro
 

DracoFox

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 14, 2006
Messages
943
Location
Lafayette, IN
For those who stayed at my place on Friday, NEED to check their belongings. I am missing my Wiimote and a possible nun-chuck adapter piece. I cannot use this f'n Nyko mote to navigate through the menus to update my cIOS/wad files on my Wii so that I can fully play Metroid: Other M without errors.

Thank you.
 

Little England

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
3,148
Location
Purdue, W Lafayette IN Rancho Cucamonga, SoCal
On Purdue Smash

This big ol' post is basically my overview of Purdue/Midwest Smash. I'm going to hit many points, so I'll make a table of contents. Feel free to skip to sections that might interest you lol

I. Purdue Smash Socially
II. Purdue's top players
III. Lower ranked players getting better
IV. Attracting new players
V. Picking a main character
VI. My opinion on the stage rules


I. Purdue Smash Socially

It's a short section, but I put this first for a reason. This is basically another thank you for being such great friends right off the bat! People tell me that I'm "hard NOT to like" but I still feel like I was lucky to fly across the country and be able to "click" with a group of friends at the school. I'll be sad when people graduate and stuff :( but I'll carry on the legacy as long as I'm here!

II. Purdue's Top Players

1. Anthony: I think what you're doing for the community here is awesome! I'm going to pick your brain about how to make this region grow stronger in skill/size. Although I REALLY wish you entered tournaments, I understand your reasons for not doing so. I just hope you keep on playing man! haha (Go to Genesis 2!)

2. Matt: You're full of it!! <3 lol you love this game and you know it. I'm exposing you right now to everybody. If you don't love this game, then how are you so good? If you don't love this game, why do you like playing friendlies with me? If you don't love this game then why are you going to tournaments? LOL Cut the crap and practice with me and stuff. ^_^

3. George: You're hella good at this game and honestly, you still have glaring potential. You are one of the three people at this school that has shown that they truly want to learn the game/practice/and travel. You are everything I was looking for when it comes to Purdue Smash (no homo?? lol). Be my smash bromance <3 haha

4. Kirkq: I really wish I got to play you more. Let's set up a smash date, so we can help each other's falcos :bee: I'm not sure how devoted you are to the game though, so please tell me. Aside from that just a word of advice. Don't let emotions get the best of you and don't forfeit. If you ever forfeit again in tournament I'm going to slap your first born child. lol jk......(no seriously I will)

I feel like there is a significant skill gap from these four people, but I feel like there are still a few more people worth mentioning for this section

Fro': I have yet to figure you out. I feel like the only thing I have up on you is fundamentals, which although is a significant part of the game, is not hard to grasp at all. Like KirkQ, I'm not sure how much you care about getting better. What I do know is you have what it takes. If you are interested in intense training then we can set up a date for that. :)

Lance: So, you've improved in the short while that I've been at the school. You take advice very well and you don't have an ego. You'll be able to learn this game VERY fast. You are another one of those people who has shown interest in getting better. I'm just as willing to help as you are motivated. ;D

Draco: We haven't played at all. :( Let's play. lol

III. Lower ranked players getting better

I know some of you may look at players like Matt or myself and think to yourselves, "I'll never be that good" or you may think it takes too much work. The truth is, you are not that far off. All it takes to get better are a few things. First, pick a main (see that section). Second, get tech skill with that character (you need to be able to fully control your character). Third, learn that character and all of its match ups. It's that simple. If you run into a problem with a particular match up, think about what tools your character has that can be used to counter. (ie. You [Marth] vs Fox. Problem: Fox keeps bairing you when you are falling from the sky without any jumps left. Solution: Mix in counter when falling from the sky.) It's that simple.

Skyler: You should keep playing Doc. You've improved with him quickly. Just take this advice ^ and stick it out. I think you know you can be a great player. You aren't fulling anyone. ;)

Brett: If you love Bowser THAT much, become the best frikkin Bowser to ever grace the game of smash! Don't let his high learning curve get the best of you. Enjoy your character, and train hard. Thats what it'll take. I want to also address a point you brought up last week about Smash not having BnBs. Here is how it works.

Smash does have BnBs. The difference between combos in smash and other fighting games is DI. I'm going to use Blazblue as a reference since it is a game we can both kinda relate to lol. Say I am Jin. When I do forward C I know down D will connect, but there would be different combos if Blazblue had DI. Take the same forward C from Jin. If the opponent DI'd that forward C towards Jin he would probably fly strait up. This would make Jin have to use something like forward D after his forward C instead. In addition, if the opponent DI'd the forward C away from Jin he would have to do D, DB, B+ABC or D. (You know that attack where he surfs on that Ice thing lol) So, in relation to smash, if Fox or Falco DI'd Bowser's uthrow left or right at low percent you can run to either direction and regrab them. As you know, combos change with percentage. So if you take the same scenario, at high percent Bowser would instead have to opt for a fair/bair. I hope this all makes sense to you. I can explain more later the next time we meet.

IV. Attracting new players

Another short yet important topic. To keep the scene thriving in the Midwest, or particularly here at Purdue, there needs to be some kind of incentive for new players to go to/compete in tournaments. There are three statements a noob would make as to why they wouldn't play melee, or might play brawl over melee:

1. Melee is old, Brawl is new
2. Melee is too technical/fast
3. I'll never be as good as them

As Melee players we need to be able to explain to them why all these statements are plain wrong. Here are your answers to the ladder noob johns:

1. Better to play a better old game than a lame new one.
2. It takes a week max of dedication to learn the Advanced Techniques.
3. Practice.

So, once we draw them in, we have to cradle them like babies. That's the cost we have to pay for the release of Brawl. Maybe you can show them some combo videos of their favorite character or something. Thats how most melee players got into the game haha. As far as their incentive to come to tournaments, I was thinking that they should get to team with Anthony or something...LOL (or any of the other top players here) That's a good way to show them the thrill of competition melee has to offer. ;)

V. Picking a main

This is probably the most important section to me. I'm going to cut strait to the chase. If you are still going 0-2 in tournament it is likely because you don't have a main. The process of picking a main comes down to two short questions.

1. Who are you naturally most comfortable with?
2. Who do you enjoy playing as the most?

Going back to using Brett as an example. Notice I did not discourage him from using Bowser. He enjoys Bowser as a character ("I like Bowser because he's fat! I don't care that he's bad.") and he seems to be the most comfortable with him. All thats left for him to do is learn his character.

VI. My opinion on stage rules

tbqh, I can't believe some of the counter picks some people like/want. This section is for people who truly want to become better at the game. I don't know if you guys get this by now, but there is SOOOOOO much more to learn about character match ups than there is about the stages. "But I just wanna play on it for fun" Learning your character's match ups and the little techniques and strategies is so much more rewarding AND fun. If you like playing on Peach's Castle it is because you have given up. Plain and simple. It comes off as harsh but thats my opinion. Maybe it's my mindset, which is that I want to help MW get better and I myself want to become a frikkin beast Falco. lol so yeah I say this all out of <3

More to add later...
 

Rin10-10

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 23, 2009
Messages
551
Location
Xanadu
WALL OF AWESOME
For a second there, I thought I was reading a character guide. O_o

Thanks fer the advice, mate. I'm certainly going try and stick with Doc (Now that my roomates won't john about the matchup =P). And ya needn't worry about intimidating me! I'm probably the single hardest person to discourage in this state. If I come off as non-competitive it's only because I like teams better than singles. I generally know what I need to work on, and use friendlies as experimentation time.

Also: Brett ... if you're serious about rockin' bowser again, we're bringin' back team Big Evil (Now that we both actually know how to play the game a little better XD).
 

Dart!

Smash Master
Joined
May 12, 2010
Messages
3,755
Location
East Peoria, IL
@ Jason. What is there to do about the hundreds of miles between each mw hotspot for melée. Especially with increase of traveling and food costs? I live in Peoria and have like two capable people, but for me to improve I MUST travel >100 miles just to find people to improve. If I hit a plateau or stop improving for awhile I could potentially be forced to quit.

The two most glaring/obvious reason the mw is where we are now is because of the above and...
1. The coasts average 50 ppl during local stuff, the mw is lucky to get 10-15
2. Our best people (i.e. Kels and tink) are leagues Ahead of the many other mediocre players we have, but then some random *** coast player will come and own them In tourney, which discourages even myself sometimes.
I've literally had about 10 or so ppl quit just because of how behind the mw is.

Tl;dr the mw either has to coordinate within itself way more or be doomed to mediocrity
 

Jayford

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 16, 2008
Messages
1,691
Location
Chesterton, IN and West Lafayette, IN
On Purdue Smash
Good read <3.

A few things I would like to bring up tho.

Stage Choices

Stage knowledge is an important part of the game imo. I clearly understand why a lot of the stages are banned and agree with some points. The main problem I have though is that if I know certain stages really well and the stage isn't stupid why aren't they lega. Rainbow Cruise is a perfect example of this. I'll just leave it at that. If anyone wants to talk to me about it just let me know : D because I am always up for a good debate.

Character Selection

I agree completely with you. The only problem is that our crew needs to not be so angry when people want to play certain characters. My high tiers suck, plan and simple. I get stuck in patterns and can't think creatively with them. Thats why I honestly feel like my low tiers are better. I just get hated on by everyone for wanting to use them lol.

Good stuff tho.
 

DeezNutZ

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
358
Location
midwest
random tourny shout outs cuz everyone else is doing it
george eat a d smoke **** everyday lets smash later tonight
jason good show
sveet sorry I didnt play very well but your marth was looking good
goose I was a little salty it happens (im in bowling class now we should go next time you are down)
dart good seeing you i took some lessons
fro I didnt watch you play or play with you at all :(
lance keep it up son
brett good to see you again bringing the bowser
skyler stick with ganon
jay more gayness more time outs
alcheato we did ok for teaming slow it down some balls dont have to be out all the time in teams just relax
everyone including new guys come again
anthony ha this guy
trail nice johnz
samus o you ****ing *****
 

ORLY

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 27, 2006
Messages
3,378
Location
C CAWWW
Look at this guy! Been here a week and already running the place. ;D

But Jason's right. Use each other to get better and practice. Purdue's gonna be a scary place soon!
 

kirkq

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 25, 2004
Messages
942
Location
Kouts/West Lafayette, Indiana
4. Kirkq: I really wish I got to play you more. Let's set up a smash date, so we can help each other's falcos :bee: I'm not sure how devoted you are to the game though, so please tell me. Aside from that just a word of advice. Don't let emotions get the best of you and don't forfeit. If you ever forfeit again in tournament I'm going to slap your first born child. lol jk......(no seriously I will)
You are misreading the forfeiting incident. I was simply tired of wasting your time and mine by playing jigglypuff. It was a poor decision that I didn't need any more information from. There was no point in playing out that match at all. I don't get emotional, you misunderstand me.

I forfeited to George in the challenge match because I don't give two ****s. I don't want people telling me to stop friendlies to go play a super serious mode 4/7 with someone I've never (I think?) lost a set to. I didn't play, so I 'lost'. That is seemingly the rules, which is fine. So there you have it, I am no longer first. It doesn't really matter to me. The only reason I would bother challenging people is if they want to talk **** or I feel the need to correct the misrepresented seeds for bracket purposes. You are probably better than me on an average day anyway, Jason. Again, I will request to be removed from the power rankings. Last time I was ignored. I don't want to be bothered by the system. You all know how good or bad I am, I don't have anything to prove. If you make me drop it either makes me look bad or makes your power rankings look like a joke.

How devoted am I to the game? - It depends on the day. I really have nothing better to do. It can be engaging to play good people for a period of time, but I'm also really lazy.
 

ihavespaceblondes

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Messages
4,229
Location
Memphis, TN
You are misreading the forfeiting incident. I was simply tired of wasting your time and mine by playing jigglypuff. It was a poor decision that I didn't need any more information from. There was no point in playing out that match at all. I don't get emotional, you misunderstand me.

I forfeited to George in the challenge match because I don't give two ****s. I don't want people telling me to stop friendlies to go play a super serious mode 4/7 with someone I've never (I think?) lost a set to. I didn't play, so I 'lost'. That is seemingly the rules, which is fine. So there you have it, I am no longer first. It doesn't really matter to me. The only reason I would bother challenging people is if they want to talk **** or I feel the need to correct the misrepresented seeds for bracket purposes. You are probably better than me on an average day anyway, Jason. Again, I will request to be removed from the power rankings. Last time I was ignored. I don't want to be bothered by the system. You all know how good or bad I am, I don't have anything to prove. If you make me drop it either makes me look bad or makes your power rankings look like a joke.

How devoted am I to the game? - It depends on the day. I really have nothing better to do. It can be engaging to play good people for a period of time, but I'm also really lazy.
 

Little England

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
3,148
Location
Purdue, W Lafayette IN Rancho Cucamonga, SoCal
@ Jason. What is there to do about the hundreds of miles between each mw hotspot for melée. Especially with increase of traveling and food costs? I live in Peoria and have like two capable people, but for me to improve I MUST travel >100 miles just to find people to improve. If I hit a plateau or stop improving for awhile I could potentially be forced to quit.

The two most glaring/obvious reason the mw is where we are now is because of the above and...
1. The coasts average 50 ppl during local stuff, the mw is lucky to get 10-15
2. Our best people (i.e. Kels and tink) are leagues Ahead of the many other mediocre players we have, but then some random *** coast player will come and own them In tourney, which discourages even myself sometimes.
I've literally had about 10 or so ppl quit just because of how behind the mw is.

Tl;dr the mw either has to coordinate within itself way more or be doomed to mediocrity
You have to do your best with the cards that you've been dealt. If there are two players in the city that you live in, train them up and encourage them to get better. Even though I lived in SoCal, I did not play any particular ranked players long enough to give credit of my skill level to them. I played mostly with people that were worse than me. So how did I get better? It's a mindset. You have to have the mindset that you are playing to improve. This entails many things:

1. Who CARES about winning? Take your ego and slice him by the throat (graphic...sorry lol >_>). He is trying his worst to keep you at the same skill level.
2. Take mental notes when you run into any problem whatsoever. If you're taking damage you are doing it wrong? It's not like you play like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5AkW5gD-CE&feature=related
3. Always keep thinking about new solutions to problems, and tweaks you can add to your experiences, and then incorporate these ideas and practice them 1 by 1.

You are right about the MW though. It's a very....sectional region. If a player does not live near a 'hotspot' then it does become hard for them to get better and go to tournaments. This just comes down to dedication. How much love do you have for the game and how much work are you willing to put into it? Is it worth it to you? You have to be able to answer all these questions with an astounding YES.

In regards to a couple of your other points...

The average SoCal (which is arguably the strongest region) local tournament has about 20 people. It is not bad that you are getting 10-15 people. You have to start somewhere right! Embrace the scene around you and spread it as best you can.

First, Kels does not get ***** by RANDOM coast players. He gets ***** by good ones, so let's give credit where credit is due. Second, you have to set a standard for yourself. If you think you are limited to the skill level of Kels because he is the strongest player in your region then you have to reexamine YOURSELF. What are your goals in the first place? To be good(Kels), great(Silent Spectre), or incredible(Mango)? Mango set a goal for himself, which was obviously higher than anyone else that came before him. Think on that. ;)

You are misreading the forfeiting incident. I was simply tired of wasting your time and mine by playing jigglypuff. It was a poor decision that I didn't need any more information from. There was no point in playing out that match at all. I don't get emotional, you misunderstand me.

I forfeited to George in the challenge match because I don't give two ****s. I don't want people telling me to stop friendlies to go play a super serious mode 4/7 with someone I've never (I think?) lost a set to. I didn't play, so I 'lost'. That is seemingly the rules, which is fine. So there you have it, I am no longer first. It doesn't really matter to me. The only reason I would bother challenging people is if they want to talk **** or I feel the need to correct the misrepresented seeds for bracket purposes. You are probably better than me on an average day anyway, Jason. Again, I will request to be removed from the power rankings. Last time I was ignored. I don't want to be bothered by the system. You all know how good or bad I am, I don't have anything to prove. If you make me drop it either makes me look bad or makes your power rankings look like a joke.

How devoted am I to the game? - It depends on the day. I really have nothing better to do. It can be engaging to play good people for a period of time, but I'm also really lazy.
Well, thanks for clearing this up. I understand your position now. I felt the same way tbqh. I did not care so much for the PR because people knew my skill level, so they know where I stand and I had nothing to prove. Buuuuut......

your post gives light to a good topic. What are the power rankings for? The simplest/best and I hope correct answer for the rankings in the first place, was to increase/maintain competition. The PR is supposed to be catalyst for our competitive drives. If this is the reason for the Power Rankings why make a request to be taken off unless you are quitting the game completely and why would I stay on the bottom and cause a misrepresentation in skill level? One day some little prodigy freshmen will come to the school and say "Forget Little England, I'm going strait for Cunning Kitsune!" That kid could be the next Mango. THAT to me is the purpose of the power rankings.
 

iamthemicrowave

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 7, 2006
Messages
3,735
Location
Purdue/Woodridge, IL
@Jason: Amazing post. I know some of this stemmed from our convo the other day and I pretty much agree with everything you said. I really like all the dedication you are showing to our scene, and you know I am down to keep getting better at this game and improve the community.

I really like what you said about Mango. Everyone *****es at him for being cocky. But that's how you be the best. You have to have that attitude. Mango did amazing things in term of improvement and overall skill that have made me rethink this game. All the haters can sit on their computers and cry about how hes better and sooo cocky and annoying, but they wish they had that much confidence.

The thing is that mango already knows all this, and sucks that he has to deal with all the haters. But thats part of being the best as well.

You know I got your back <3.



@Kirkq: You still seem a little salty but as a tournament organizer here I have to follow the rules more so than you guys do. I know how exhausting and tiring challenege matches are, don't act like you are the only one. I know they suck to play right after a tournament, especially if you didn't do as well as you hoped. However, forfeiting is just a huge john, and I am against those in all forms. The challenge match we should have played was one postponed from a summer SSB0, where you were too busy to play because of doing 100 stock tiny puff dittos on hyrule temple. I let it slide because I didn't care too much at the time. But rules are rules and they must be followed or not used at all.

It seems obvious to me that you(and Matt to an extent), hate the power rankings. Lets not beat around the bush, everyone hates it because they think it means "Player X is better than Player Y". We all think of it that way from time to time. But that is wrong. To me it is an incentive for 2 people to try their hardest with the goal of mutual improvement. It is a chance to really try and play an intense set with the goal of getting better. Just remember that when you forfeit you are denying your opponent a learning experience as well.

EDIT: Jason edited his post and gave pretty much the same explanation I did. Weird. I swear it wasn't planned.

My honest conclusion is that the people who john about the power rankings take them too seriously aka they say who is better than who. That is not the case. For the record I have taken at a set in tournament from you before.




@Jay: I am sorry but this was just too glaring for me to overlook. "My high tiers suck, plan and simple. I get stuck in patterns and can't think creatively with them. "

False. High tiers allow for many more diverse playstyles than low tiers, who have only a couple of good moves. Those low tier characters rely on gimmicky tactics and the few good moves they have, unlike high tiers who have many moves that work in synergy with each other. This in turn allows for many more diverse ways to play. IMO fox is the most creative character and has the most diverse yet still tournament viable playstyles.

I know you wanna be the cosmo of zelda or the axe of pikachu or the taj of mewtwo or the germ of link. Playing a high tier you feel like you are conforming. But really you are expanding your options. And as for being amazing with low tiers, well the statistics are very against you.

I believe you have a mental block because you are scared to lose with high tiers. I know right now you are conflicted between brawl and melee, and let me tell you that it needs to be resolved if you want to get better. Problem is that you have to pick one, because they are vastly different games. To me the only similarity is having the word "smash" in the name.



@Everyone: Reading my posts it seems like I don't even play this game for fun. It could not be more different, and let me try to explain.

I am a very competitive person, and I get a thrill from figuring someone and completely crushing them, assuming they are trying just as hard. As M2K said (excuse the language) "it feels good to **** people."(or something to that extent). In English: "It feels good to win, especially when both people are giving it their all." M2K also has this mindset, and that is why he got so good.

To me the thrill of competition is unlike anything, and I thrive in that environment. I used to play sports in high school and sucked at them, but I loved competing more than anything. I also competed in jazz, normal band, and marching band competitions. The situation of two or more people or teams trying their hardest to win creates an amazing energy(think armada vs mango at genesis, or the super bowl, or starcraft finals, whatever gets you off).

The other amazing thing about competition is that it creates efficiency and improvement, two very important qualities to me. There is nothing greater than seeing your hard work pay off.

Smash provides an outlet for this competitive drive I have, along with school and other things. I do like to play some other video games, but to be honest smash has ruined other video games for me. No other game is as fulfilling, fun, and engaging to me.



PLEASE read this last part if nothing else!

To end this post I am calling out everyone in the crew:

Look at yourselves. Look at all the time you spend playing this game and enjoying the community. Do you want something to show for all the time spent on this dumb game, something that will make you proud? I am not saying you have to want to get better. I want you all to figure what you want to get out of this game.

I know people are scared to try their best because they might fail. That is part of life. If you want to improve and succeed at this game, and maybe learn something about life in the process, we are here for you, and I wish us the best of luck.

We just had our best SSBO ever, lets take this energy and run with it!
 

Tomacawk

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
3,783
Location
Central IL
The thrill and fun of competition is why I play. It's why I became such an adamant Halo player; and it was ultimately what pulled me into this game after seeing it on MLG VoD.
George that was the best post I've ever seen you make.
 

Dart!

Smash Master
Joined
May 12, 2010
Messages
3,755
Location
East Peoria, IL
You have to do your best with the cards that you've been dealt. If there are two players in the city that you live in, train them up and encourage them to get better. Even though I lived in SoCal, I did not play any particular ranked players long enough to give credit of my skill level to them. I played mostly with people that were worse than me. So how did I get better? It's a mindset. You have to have the mindset that you are playing to improve. This entails many things:

1. Who CARES about winning? Take your ego and slice him by the throat (graphic...sorry lol >_>). He is trying his worst to keep you at the same skill level.
2. Take mental notes when you run into any problem whatsoever. If you're taking damage you are doing it wrong? It's not like you play like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5AkW5gD-CE&feature=related
3. Always keep thinking about new solutions to problems, and tweaks you can add to your experiences, and then incorporate these ideas and practice them 1 by 1.

You are right about the MW though. It's a very....sectional region. If a player does not live near a 'hotspot' then it does become hard for them to get better and go to tournaments. This just comes down to dedication. How much love do you have for the game and how much work are you willing to put into it? Is it worth it to you? You have to be able to answer all these questions with an astounding YES.

In regards to a couple of your other points...

The average SoCal (which is arguably the strongest region) local tournament has about 20 people. It is not bad that you are getting 10-15 people. You have to start somewhere right! Embrace the scene around you and spread it as best you can.

First, Kels does not get ***** by RANDOM coast players. He gets ***** by good ones, so let's give credit where credit is due. Second, you have to set a standard for yourself. If you think you are limited to the skill level of Kels because he is the strongest player in your region then you have to reexamine YOURSELF. What are your goals in the first place? To be good(Kels), great(Silent Spectre), or incredible(Mango)? Mango set a goal for himself, which was obviously higher than anyone else that came before him. Think on that. ;)



Well, thanks for clearing this up. I understand your position now. I felt the same way tbqh. I did not care so much for the PR because people knew my skill level, so they know where I stand and I had nothing to prove. Buuuuut......

your post gives light to a good topic. What are the power rankings for? The simplest/best and I hope correct answer for the rankings in the first place, was to increase/maintain competition. The PR is supposed to be catalyst for our competitive drives. If this is the reason for the Power Rankings why make a request to be taken off unless you are quitting the game completely and why would I stay on the bottom and cause a misrepresentation in skill level? One day some little prodigy freshmen will come to the school and say "Forget Little England, I'm going strait for Cunning Kitsune!" That kid could be the next Mango. THAT to me is the purpose of the power rankings.

Overall i am impressed by your points but my point about kels losing came off wrong, or it was just plain a complete miss on my part.

i don't mean win as per say winning is all that matters. i'm saying that if the noob people keep running into people like kels in pools and brackets first round then they're going to quit because they don't like losing all the time
it may not bother people like me (my initiation was by playing BlackPanthers technical fox and getting my *** handed to me for 6 straight months til my first tournament.) but people like me are few and far between nowadays.

i think my main point was about getting newer people into melee, but the only thing i could see happening is the creation of an "amateur bracket."
my understanding of this (it's not my idea) is that for those people that didn't get out of first round (or just pools if there is only one) and isn't well known or well ranked or considered "good" is allowed to buy into an apply named "amateur bracket" with other people hopefully of equal skill to keep them interested enough.


i don't know if any of that made sense but hopefully you understand what i'm saying if only a little bit.
BTW jason you have an excellent understanding of what it takes to improve and i like what you're doing. keep it up ^_^

obviously i'm already "doing what i can" by coming to SSBO's and chicago tournaments and such, i was making a broad generalization of opinions that aren't like my own...if that makes sense >.>

and i'd like to discuss stages with you some more...here's fine or a pm too, but if you or anyone else that wants to contact me
309-696-5934
(i trust you guys and i don't give a **** really who talks to me, i have unlimited texts and such.) but i feel there should be a healthy medium between what you think are "gay stages that won't help improvement" and what others think are tourney viable and "fair"

again, i'm not knocking you or what you're saying just have slightly differing opinions on certain subjects. ^_^
 

Ignatius

List Evader
BRoomer
Joined
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Messages
5,517
Since nobody ever challenged me, I never had to bring this up. But what exactly is the point of best of 7 in challenge matches. I can understand a best of 5, as that resembles late bracket matches in tournaments.

But best of 7 seems as arbitrary as making it best of 19.
 

Jayford

Smash Lord
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Messages
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Location
Chesterton, IN and West Lafayette, IN
@Jay: I am sorry but this was just too glaring for me to overlook. "My high tiers suck, plan and simple. I get stuck in patterns and can't think creatively with them. "

False. High tiers allow for many more diverse playstyles than low tiers, who have only a couple of good moves. Those low tier characters rely on gimmicky tactics and the few good moves they have, unlike high tiers who have many moves that work in synergy with each other. This in turn allows for many more diverse ways to play. IMO fox is the most creative character and has the most diverse yet still tournament viable playstyles.


I agree that top tiers have a lot of options and can be really creative, but when I play them I just don't see those options and get stuck doing the cookie cutter options with them. When I play low tiers I see lots of possibilites and feel like I am playing the match up and not just doing the same thing over and over.

I know you wanna be the cosmo of zelda or the axe of pikachu or the taj of mewtwo or the germ of link. Playing a high tier you feel like you are conforming. But really you are expanding you options. And as for being amazing with low tiers, well the statistics are very against you.
This is exactly what I was talking about in my post. People just give me shit for playing low tier characters. I feel alot of them fit my play styles the best and I have fun playing them. But, if you guys want I'll just plank with Puff every match I can do that too. Also, maybe I can become the the Jayford of Ness. Even if the odds are against me it doesn't mean I shouldn't play the character I enjoy or try to have successes with them. This pretty much seals it. fuck puff I'm never playing her unless I have to or feel like playing her. People tell me I can't win or to not even try so I am going to prove everyone wrong.

I believe you have a mental block because you are scared to lose with high tiers. I know right now you are conflicted between brawl and melee, and let me tell you that it needs to be resolved if you want to get better. Problem is that you have to pick one, because they are vastly different games. To me the only similarity is having the word "smash" in the name.

lol I don't have a mental block of losing with high tiers. Losing with Puff is the same as losing with Ness to me. I choose a character because I have fun with them and I honestly believe I can win with them. On the topic of Brawl, I think it has vastly improved my mental game in Melee. It helps my reads and understand my opponent better. Seeing how you have never played it competitively I don't think you really have room to talk about this. I'm going to be amazing at both games with the characters I want to play as.


Summary
I play this game to have fun and I like competition. Also, I'm not angry when making this post I'm just saying what is on my mind. So no hard feelings.
 

Tink

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
Messages
5,439
Location
Chi-Town
rofll...SS would get ***** in the MW -_-....falcons dont survive here :/. we have toooo much darkrain training.


whos can give a chicago car housing 0_o....not sure what day yet -_-...friday or saturday.
 

Dart!

Smash Master
Joined
May 12, 2010
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East Peoria, IL
P.S. Jason when i asked you about SS and you said he would "**** ME!!!!1" you weren't basing this off the set i had with ORLY were you? i hope not.
 

'Fro

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
1,340
Since nobody ever challenged me, I never had to bring this up. But what exactly is the point of best of 7 in challenge matches. I can understand a best of 5, as that resembles late bracket matches in tournaments.

But best of 7 seems as arbitrary as making it best of 19.
Consistency, for the most part. It's a longer test of endurance. I've taken Matt in a couple of best of 5 sets, but I could never see it happening for me to beat him in a challenge, at least the way things are.

Jason, the whole part about the PPR being a catalyst for competitiveness is precisely why they were introduced. It also gives the T.O.'s a direct reference in seeding pools. If you are good enough for a certain rank, you will earn it, plain and simple.

It also goes back to the whole endurance thing. I can definitely say that long tourneys get me very tired, and going from that to a best of 7 set is extremely taxing. However, all that put together is still shorter than a whole regional tournament.

There isn't anything else positive about the PPR in my mind that George and Jason have not already touched on, so I will leave it at that.

EDIT: @ Jayford: this isn't about you winning with low tiers. I'll speak for myself on this one: I think it's more about you having an actual game plan and sticking to it, especially as far as character choice. I've been in a bit of a limbo myself about my main, and that has stunted my development as a Melee player. Thing is, those two characters are Samus (a solid mid tier) and Sheik (Sheik). Two characters, low execution curves, and look what's happening to me. You have Puff, Fox, Ness, Link, Mewtwo, and whatever else comes out of that hat of yours. Hope that presents a better view to you, because I'm not one for misunderstandings.
 

Faithkeeper

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 2, 2008
Messages
1,653
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Indiana
Smash provides an outlet for this competitive drive I have, along with school and other things. I do like to play some other video games, but to be honest smash has ruined other video games for me. No other game is as fulfilling, fun, and engaging to me.
I relate to this.

Look at yourselves. Look at all the time you spend playing this game and enjoying the community. Do you want something to show for all the time spent on this dumb game, something that will make you proud? I am not saying you have to want to get better. I want you all to figure what you want to get out of this game.

I know people are scared to try their best because they might fail. That is part of life. If you want to improve and succeed at this game, and maybe learn something about life in the process, we are here for you, and I wish us the best of luck.

We just had our best SSBO ever, lets take this energy and run with it!
"Your desire for success must be greater than your fear of failure"

Good stuff George, you are earning brownie points in my book like mad these days.


i don't mean win as per say winning is all that matters. i'm saying that if the noob people keep running into people like kels in pools and brackets first round then they're going to quit because they don't like losing all the time
VrantV
I hear you. I've been playing melee since early 09. I haven't won a single bracket match in tourney. I've won 3 pools sets since playing, 2 were to people who were playing in their first tournament. I'm quite familiar with sucking at this game, and as you well know, it's not fun. But in the end if I want real improvement I'm going to have to take ownership for how bad I am and do something about it. And if it doesn't work, I'll have to try harder. My practice over the summer wasn't enough. Obviously I can't do the same thing and expect a different outcome. If I want to do anything other than 0-2 in bracket (if I get there) I need to do something different. I have my goals. I've had them since the beginning of the summer, and I'm not going to reach them if I don't start getting better faster. I think I'm sticking to improvement whether I fail continuously or not. So do you think you guys could tell me when I'm being stupid or when my tech is so bad it hurts to watch? When you think "man that kid sucks" tell me. I'll then get ticked at myself, and when I'm angry with myself I practice more. They say before he was a father lance armstrong was fueled to continue by his rage... it worked for him.

VSummaryV
I feel as though the people who truly will succeed in this game and make an improvement to our local scene will keep at it whether we have a amateur bracket or not. I'd buy into it for the sole reason of getting more experience.
 

Little England

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
3,148
Location
Purdue, W Lafayette IN Rancho Cucamonga, SoCal
@Dart I was basing this off of personal experience. I've seen and played SS and what he does with Falcon is incomprehensible to say the least. I didn't mean to sound off putting, but I know the skill gap between the two of you...it's pretty big. Go to GSG2 (a norcal regional in Dec.) so you can experience it first hand.

@Tink I really can't think of anyone in the MW who could hold their own against SS.
 

darkatma

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 10, 2005
Messages
5,747
Location
St Louis, Missouri/Fremont, CA
Um. SS would **** the midwest. You forget he's the best falcon at space animal matchups. He's also the best smasher in norcal, where any of the top 15 could give the best in the mw a good run.

gotta give credit where credit is due though. Kels did take a set from wobbles, who is shaping up to be the best ICs.. Tink chokes against ioris, but he ***** anyways.

Also, dart, the concept of an amateur bracket is called an "arcadian" tourney in socal. they ban the mains/all characters the "good people" use
 

goosefactor

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 9, 2005
Messages
1,953
I especially enjoyed reading these past few pages of the thread.

Jason, Anthony was right when he told a couple of us the other day that you are exactly what our Smash scene needs (not to mention you're just a fun guy to hang out with). Keep up the good work. :)

I do wanna clarify though, George, that I do indeed like the PPR's. Heh, I know I Goose all over the tournies sometimes with my johns, but I never felt that I gave similar sentiments towards the PPR's. I've always taken them seriously, and have played a big role in them with regards to being challenged and challenging others. And I've always enjoyed watching our crew members vying it out for the winning rank.

In the same vein of taking the PPR's seriously, one of the big reasons why I encouraged Jason to challenge me was to help maintain a level of credibility and accuracy to the rankings. It would look bad on the system if Jason was ranked 25th or whatever he was when everyone knows better.

Furthermore, mainly with just the exception of Jason for said reason, I usually wont accept challenges unless I am forced to. Now you may say that this is denying someone a chance to learn and practice in a more competitive environment, but I see it as keeping the rankings honest--if you want to move up, don't expect to take any shortcuts by asking people ranked much higher to challenge you. You have to take it one step at a time.

For a handful of us, I've seen this system as a primary driving force for wanting to improve. It can mean a lot for people to be placed high on this thing, and if we don't all do our part to keep it credible, then it'll mean less than a hill of beans to everyone. And if nothing else, for even just these select members who use this as their main source for motivation, I would never criticize this system or think it's a dumb idea. Quite the contrary, in fact.
 

Tink

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Joined
Jan 25, 2004
Messages
5,439
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Chi-Town
england said:
@Tink I really can't think of anyone in the MW who could hold their own against SS.

lolll....darkrain was given the title of best falcon main at pound by everyone other then WC players -_-...kels destroys falcon, including darkrain....he also playyyed SS attt pound and beat the crap outta him in friendlies(ya, ya, friendlies, johns). thats atleast 1 MW player that could hold their own, and theres def more.

atma said:
.....You forget he's the best falcon at space animal matchups. He's also the best smasher in norcal, where any of the top 15 could give the best in the mw a good run.

lollll....top 15 huh? i would MM anyoneeeee from norcal....anyone....thats how not scary they are...i mean, when me and kels can take matches of m2k in tournament, i think we can handle some norcal soup.....now socal....johns on that, they are beast. even SS....im not saying hes bad, hes def good, and a great falcon to watch, but he would get johned on in the MW....i act cant wait to play you again binyan =).....come to smashing grounds.
 

Ignatius

List Evader
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Messages
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Consistency, for the most part. It's a longer test of endurance. I've taken Matt in a couple of best of 5 sets, but I could never see it happening for me to beat him in a challenge, at least the way things are.

It also goes back to the whole endurance thing. I can definitely say that long tourneys get me very tired, and going from that to a best of 7 set is extremely taxing. However, all that put together is still shorter than a whole regional tournament.
I'd still have to ask though, being consistent with what? When the most tournament sets go to is best of 5, and you can win a best of 5, that's all that really matters.

However, I will concede that if its purely in an attempt to build endurance, then it still holds some merit.
 

Tink

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Jan 25, 2004
Messages
5,439
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Chi-Town
if a MW figure can ever get that far lolll...id put money down for me or kels =)....we got the right tools, meaning fox. im pretty sure kels would be on that 20 as well loll. we gotta have another big MW tourny and have him come...him and zhu =).
 

Jayford

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 16, 2008
Messages
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Chesterton, IN and West Lafayette, IN
EDIT: @ Jayford: this isn't about you winning with low tiers. I'll speak for myself on this one: I think it's more about you having an actual game plan and sticking to it, especially as far as character choice. I've been in a bit of a limbo myself about my main, and that has stunted my development as a Melee player. Thing is, those two characters are Samus (a solid mid tier) and Sheik (Sheik). Two characters, low execution curves, and look what's happening to me. You have Puff, Fox, Ness, Link, Mewtwo, and whatever else comes out of that hat of yours. Hope that presents a better view to you, because I'm not one for misunderstandings.
I get what you are saying. In almost every competitive thing I have done I almost always try and play or use every character / option. In WoW I would change specs all of the time. In Yu-Gi-Oh I ran different decks all of the time. Heck, in debate I ran different cases / arguments every single tournament just to keep people guessing. I guess it's just my style. ALthough part of the reason I switch characters alot is that people would rag on me for playing low tiers all of the time so I would just get sick of it. It's all good tho.

@ Everyone

Sorry if I seemed mad in my posts. I mean no harm or hard feelings with anyone. I love this game and I want to be really good, so hopefully no one takes this as me as not caring >.>. On that note I would be up for some smash on Friday.
 
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