Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[XenoWarriorX]

More or less. It's probably even worse with how producer of Starfy-games, Hitoshi Yagami, seems to have moved on from the series to now being the lead on most of the new installment in Nintendo's currently profiting IPs, like the Xenoblade-games, FE, Pokemon, and more. Ironic too since he also produced Panel De Pon, which also got badly snubbed as of recent years and now is mainly living on as "that puzzle minigame in Nintendo-IPs"-thing,

I personally feel like he's not going to be going back on the series, especially with Sushi Strikers, his newest experimental puzzler, struggled on becoming anything notable in the community as well...

ouch.

So until someone comes along to revive Starfy, it might not come back.

That sucks.

And I passed on SS since it was too expensive for a switch game.

 

[Delta64]

I'm surprised Starfy has taken this long to come back. Is TOSE really that busy? They probably have more than enough programmers to make another Starfy game.

But like a lot of franchises (F-Zero, wave race, 1080, Advanced Wars, Sin and Punishment, chibi-Robo, Golden sun, and custom robo) I guess Starfy wasn't high enough on Nintendo's priories to get another entry.

I hate how many franchises Nintendo ignores...

Yeah, there are a lot of franchises Nintendo seems to be leaving alone.
Yet, I do have to say that it is commendable how many franchises Nintendo has created (there are so freaking many). Sure it sucks that some have not seen an entry in 10+ years. I am not trying to say that is something Nintendo should be proud of. All I am trying to say is that there is a timeline where some of these franchises never got made at all. If Nintendo had Camelot work only on Mario sports titles we would have never gotten the Golden Sun series. I mean, Nintendo almost made Splatoon a Mario game for crying out loud but, somebody had the idea to do something original with it. Nintendo has only so many developers, a likely reason we haven't had a Golden Sun recently is probably because the developers at Camelot are not up to the task (making an RPG like Golden Sun is likely a more complex project than Mario Tennis).

Again I am not happy that a lot of these franchises have been left behind but, they still have games that exist that are awesome and I can always revisit them. I would rather them wait for an opportune time to bring a series back than have them do a half-***ed job creating a new entry only to abandon the series again because the crappy game they put out didn't do well.

 

[Q-Long]

Well, if it makes you guys feel better, Capcom and Sega have a lot of series they ignore too :b

Edit: Namco too

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Yeah, there are a lot of franchises Nintendo seems to be leaving alone.
Yet, I do have to say that it is commendable how many franchises Nintendo has created (there are so freaking many). Sure it sucks that some have not seen an entry in 10+ years. I am not trying to say that is something Nintendo should be proud of. All I am trying to say is that there is a timeline where some of these franchises never got made at all. If Nintendo had Camelot work only on Mario sports titles we would have never gotten the Golden Sun series. I mean, Nintendo almost made Splatoon a Mario game for crying out loud but, somebody had the idea to do something original with it. Nintendo has only so many developers, a likely reason we haven't had a Golden Sun recently is probably because the developers at Camelot are not up to the task (making an RPG like Golden Sun is likely a more complex project than Mario Tennis).

Again I am not happy that a lot of these franchises have been left behind but, they still have games that exist that are awesome and I can always revisit them. I would rather them wait for an opportune time to bring a series back than have them do a half-***ed job creating a new entry only to abandon the series again because the crappy game they put out didn't do well.

Unfortunately, that last sentence seems to be what happened to a lot of franchises.

And the only ones who can save it are the producers and how interested they are. Once they lose interested, the franchise is killed.

F-Zero being a notable one as it's been exclusively produced by Miyamoto himself, yet after the ****ty GBA Japan exclusive, Climax, did so poorly, he didn't feel like making a new one. Though, he'll gladly find more reasons to fund Pikmin and Star Fox games that don't end up doing well, and leave a once prominent franchise in the dust.

Because if it ain't the producer who ain't interested or won't help, then who the hell will?

 

[Delta64]

Well, if it makes you guys feel better, Capcom and Sega have a lot of series they ignore too :b

Edit: Namco too

Yeah, this isn't something exclusive to Nintendo. Actually, I would say Nintendo does a better job than most (not all) others (just look at how Microsoft has treated all their Rare properties).

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Well, if it makes you guys feel better, Capcom and Sega have a lot of series they ignore too :b

Edit: Namco too

Oh, don't even get me started on how those stupid companies treat those franchises that they just end up sitting on.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Well, if it makes you guys feel better, Capcom and Sega have a lot of series they ignore too :b

Edit: Namco too

Speakin' which... this good ol' big offender.

 

[Q-Long]

Speakin' which... this good ol' big offender.

Well, they don't ignore their series, they kick and bully them instead.

:b

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Speakin' which... this good ol' big offender.

Well, they don't ignore their series, they kick and bully them instead.

:b

Konami is the EA of Japan.

 

[Luigifan18]

Well, if it makes you guys feel better, Capcom and Sega have a lot of series they ignore too :b

Edit: Namco too

When are we getting a new House of the Dead game, anyway?

 

[Ultinarok]

Well, they don't ignore their series, they kick and bully them instead.

:b

Off topic, is your username a pun of Lon'qu?

Also Konami is so bad, Jim Sterling gives then their own segment on his web show called F**konami News, reporting on all of their dastardly deeds.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

When are we getting a new House of the Dead game, anyway?

House Of The Dead: Scarlet is in Japanese Arcades.

 

[Q-Long]

Off topic, is your username a pun of Lon'qu?

You're not the first person to ask that, but its not lol

I do like the character though (and the fact he sounds like Knuckles and Yugi)

 

[Delta64]

Unfortunately, that last sentence seems to be what happened to a lot of franchises.

And the only ones who can save it are the producers and how interested they are. Once they lose interested, the franchise is killed.

F-Zero being a notable one as it's been exclusively produced by Miyamoto himself, yet after the ****ty GBA Japan exclusive, Climax, did so poorly, he didn't feel like making a new one. Though, he'll gladly find more reasons to fund Pikmin and Star Fox games that don't end up doing well, and leave a once prominent franchise in the dust.

Because if it ain't the producer who ain't interested or won't help, then who the hell will?

One thing that contributes a lot to the success of a game is marketing. Currently, Nintendo is putting the majority of their marketing on Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. However, if you bring back a franchise it needs to be marketed well to succeed (just like most games). Take Golden Sun Dark Dawn for example. Even if you enjoyed Dark Dawn, I think we can all agree that Nintendo failed to market the game effectively which is a huge reason why it did not sell as much as the previous titles. Pikmin and Star Fox have also suffered from bad marketing.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Definitely not. It's more of a realization that the series isn't as profitable and therefore may not be worth the time. Have you ever heard of Muddy Mole and his game Mole Mania? That's a prime example. He's one of Nintendo's IP and is rarely heard of. Mainly because it isn't profitable. And yet, it is perfect for Sakurai to represent.

We have to remember that Nintendo at the end of the day is a business. We may love having King K Rool and Ridley but let's not kid ourselves. That was done to make a profit.

For Golden Sun, I feel like Nintendo need to be convinced and only we here, right now have that power.

We have roughly 5-7 years to prove it. We know there will be another Smash for the Switch's successor. And DLC to boot. So we have plenty of chances! But after that? Well honestly, I'd call it a day as that would put Isaac way beyond the year count of any requested Smash character

EDIT: For the record, my heart still beats hard for Isaac. Wanted him since Brawl. I am just being realistic in this one moment.

Eh Muddy Mole isn't a good example. Golden Sun is nowhere near as niche as that game. The reason why Golden Sun is dormant right now is because of the staffing at Camelot. IS and Monolith have over 100 staff members while Camelot have half that amount and they're less experienced regarding JRPGs. If they were more capable and had more staff I reckon we would've already gotten another Golden Sun game. And we all know silly decisions they made with Dark Dawn such as the marketing and releasing on an older dying system etc. Anyway I wouldn't call it quits on Isaac. If Sakurai is ever replaced for a future Smash game who knows how his replacement would choose the roster, Isaac would definitely stick out

 

[Ultinarok]

You're not the first person to ask that, but its not lol

I do like the character though (and the fact he sounds like Knuckles and Yugi)

Lon'qu is a beast. Best supports in the game and a sick unit. I actually have a Lon'qu T-shirt that I custom ordered online lol. Travis Willingham is a damn good voice actor for him too.

Also did someone here call Falcon Isaac's mentor at one point? Does that mean we can call Isaac Captain Planet due to his mastery of the 4 elements? (And 'Heart' of course, since he's won all of our hearts).

 

[XenoWarriorX]

One thing that contributes a lot to the success of a game is marketing. Currently, Nintendo is putting the majority of their marketing on Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. However, if you bring back a franchise it needs to be marketed well to succeed (just like most games). Take Golden Sun Dark Dawn for example. Even if you enjoyed Dark Dawn, I think we can all agree that Nintendo failed to market the game effectively which is a huge reason why it did not sell as much as the previous titles. Pikmin and Star Fox have also suffered from bad marketing.

Oh, I'm well aware of how badly Nintendo markets its lower franchises.

Take F-Zero X or GX. Both times Nintendo has failed at conveying any info to the customer on why he should buy it.

On top of being ****ty commericals, they were rarely played on TV back in the day. So what you end up with is terrible markerting all bundled up into one.

Also Konami is so bad, Jim Sterling gives then their own segment on his web show called F**konami News, reporting on all of their dastardly deeds.

Again, Japanese EA is an accurate assement of Konami.

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

Lon'qu is a beast. Best supports in the game and a sick unit. I actually have a Lon'qu T-shirt that I custom ordered online lol. Travis Willingham is a damn good voice actor for him too.

Also did someone here call Falcon Isaac's mentor at one point? Does that mean we can call Isaac Captain Planet due to his mastery of the 4 elements? (And 'Heart' of course, since he's won all of our hearts).

Captain Planetary just for the extra reference.

 

[Metocles]

Konami still holds Suikoden hostage somewhere in a dark, dingy Japanese basement strapped to an electric chair in front of a firing squad 24/7/365. I really didn't need to be reminded of that.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Konami still holds Suikoden hostage somewhere in a dark, dingy Japanese basement strapped to an electric chair in front of a firing squad 24/7/365. I really didn't need to be reminded of that.

And mystical Ninja sleeps in a prison cell in Konami's basement.

Welcome to 2010's Konami, ladies and gentlemen.

 

[Delta64]

Oh, I'm well aware of how badly Nintendo markets its lower franchises.

Take F-Zero X or GX. Both times Nintendo has failed at conveying any info to the customer on why he should buy it.

On top of being ****ty commericals, they were rarely played on TV back in the day. So what you end up with is terrible markerting all bundled up into one.

At least Nintendo's more recent marketing has been a significant improvement.

And mystical Ninja sleeps in a prison cell in Konami's basement.

Welcome to 2010's Konami, ladies and gentlemen.

Man, I loved Mystical Ninja: Staring Goemon on N64. (Goemon for Smash)

 

[hustler713]

Definitely not. It's more of a realization that the series isn't as profitable and therefore may not be worth the time. Have you ever heard of Muddy Mole and his game Mole Mania? That's a prime example. He's one of Nintendo's IP and is rarely heard of. Mainly because it isn't profitable. And yet, it is perfect for Sakurai to represent.

We have to remember that Nintendo at the end of the day is a business. We may love having King K Rool and Ridley but let's not kid ourselves. That was done to make a profit.

For Golden Sun, I feel like Nintendo need to be convinced and only we here, right now have that power.

We have roughly 5-7 years to prove it. We know there will be another Smash for the Switch's successor. And DLC to boot. So we have plenty of chances! But after that? Well honestly, I'd call it a day as that would put Isaac way beyond the year count of any requested Smash character

EDIT: For the record, my heart still beats hard for Isaac. Wanted him since Brawl. I am just being realistic in this one moment.

The thing about golden sun is that it was actually profitable. The first Game sold 1.76 million units worldwide, the lost Age sold 1.22 million units.

Especially over here in europe the reception was overwhelmingly great. The Lost Age is rated as the best GBA Game by most Outlets.

There is one single Game that didn't perform as well and that was Dark Dawn. (Even though it still sold estimated 400 k which is not that bad at all considering it was barely marketed anyways).

What i think killed the Series is, as much as it hurts me to say because i also love those Games, the Mario Sports Series. Camelot isn't as big of a studio to handle mutliple franchises as big as those and Nintendo seems not to be interested in hiring for their 1st Party Studios, other than epd. Retro, to name an example, is also understaffed for what reputation they have.

Nintendo will always prefer any Mario Spin off over any other Franchise as long as they eat ressources from each other.

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

I feel like if there was a smash direct early next week they would've announced it by now. The 8/8 direct and the September direct were both announced on the fifth of each respective month at 10 AM by NoA's Twitter

 

[?!?!?!]

I feel like if there was a smash direct early next week they would've announced it by now. The 8/8 direct and the September direct were both announced on the fifth of each respective month at 10 AM by NoA's Twitter

There's the big house smash tournament this weekend, maybe they'll announce it there like they did with evo? Just a thought

 

[Sabrewulf238]

If we're getting the reveal on the 10th (Wednesday) I wouldn't expect us to get an announcement for it until at least Sunday or Monday.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Again I am not happy that a lot of these franchises have been left behind but, they still have games that exist that are awesome and I can always revisit them. I would rather them wait for an opportune time to bring a series back than have them do a half-***ed job creating a new entry only to abandon the series again because the crappy game they put out didn't do well.

Absolute truth, right there. Even if those series never come back in any capacity, I wouldn't feel that bad about it, so long as they get a chance to be immortalized in Smash via their characters.

Well, if it makes you guys feel better, Capcom and Sega have a lot of series they ignore too :b

Edit: Namco too

You forgot Sony. That company, I almost swear that they actually hate cartoony mascots and are just waiting for Ratchet & Clank to die off.

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

There's the big house smash tournament this weekend, maybe they'll announce it there like they did with evo? Just a thought

That makes sense. I hope they support the competitive scene mpre this time

 

[Q-Long]

Lon'qu is a beast. Best supports in the game and a sick unit. I actually have a Lon'qu T-shirt that I custom ordered online lol. Travis Willingham is a damn good voice actor for him too.

Also did someone here call Falcon Isaac's mentor at one point? Does that mean we can call Isaac Captain Planet due to his mastery of the 4 elements? (And 'Heart' of course, since he's won all of our hearts).

lol, you should show me the tshirt. I want to get some gaming merch but I love so many games and characters its hard to choose

Also I was the one who mentioned that. The context is, if Isaac had any mentor in Smash who would be secretly cheering him on, it would be Falcon. His series his dead and his empathy would extend to those from dead series.

Though the Captain Planet spin would be fun too. Everyone has a corresponding element in Smash, though Peach could work for Heart too :b

 

[Luigifan18]

Though the Captain Planet spin would be fun too. Everyone has a corresponding element in Smash, though Peach could work for Heart too :b

Who's Air, then?

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

If Isaac doesn't get in as a playeable character or an AT and as ir looks GS music no longer plays on the Metroid stages that would mean that Golden Sun is completely erased from Smash.
How would u guys feel about that?

This would be the biggest kick in the no no square Nintendo could possibly give us.

It already stung to lose Isaac as an AT in 4 without a replacement. The only “new” GS thing to be added was a song ripped from DD.

If Nintendo dropped everything Golden Sun in ultimate it’d be a slap in the face of everyone who supported Isaac as a playable fighter.

That seems unlikely, though. It looks like Ultimate has less of a gap between fans and developers this time, thanks to the Ballot and Sakurai taking a closer look at the competitive scene.

Everything points to Isaac either being included or excluded. He is not an Assist. If he was he would have been shown with Grey... Gray? Fox as a returning Brawl AT. But he wasn’t. It would be odd, if he were an AT, to just randomly show him in another unrelated Smash reveal.

On the topic of unlockable AT. I don’t think ATs need to unlocked this time around. Plus Sakurai is aware of the fan demand. He’d at the very least show his AT to quell the fan outcry (Waluigi, Ashley, Shovel Knight got this treatment).

Then there’s, of course, the Rathalos tweet.

The perfect theming of 3 newcomers that people really want: Isaac (Sun), Skull Kid (Moon), Geno (Stars). Literally the only thing that screws up this perfect coincidence is the possible Gen 7 pokemon.

Although if you want my opinion, I don’t think Ultimate is going to get a new Pokemon rep. Especially not Inciniroar.

I’ll eat my own words if I’m wrong but hear me out.

Inciniroars popularity in the speculation scene only exploded when Vergeben said it wasn’t Decidueye. You see, unless something drastic amongst the community changed, I remember very few people actually liking Inciniroar because he was yet another bipedal Fire Starter with an emphasis on Brawling (he may not be fighting type, but he still gives off those vibes). Decidueye was the popular one. Pretty much the only popular one. So why Inciniroar? Because Primarina wouldn’t really work in Smash and some guy on the Internet said it wasn’t Decidueye.

Plus we’re coming up on the final reveals here. And the newcomers have been characters people want. Even Isabelle has a decent following. I just feel like Inciniroar wouldn’t be that exciting a reveal.

 

[?!?!?!]

That makes sense. I hope they support the competitive scene mpre this time

Seems like they've been supporting it now more than ever. Hopefully nintendo hosts their own tournaments, that would do wonders for smash and it's competitive scene

 

[Nazyrus]

This would be the biggest kick in the no no square Nintendo could possibly give us.

It already stung to lose Isaac as an AT in 4 without a replacement. The only “new” GS thing to be added was a song ripped from DD.

If Nintendo dropped everything Golden Sun in ultimate it’d be a slap in the face of everyone who supported Isaac as a playable fighter.

That seems unlikely, though. It looks like Ultimate has less of a gap between fans and developers this time, thanks to the Ballot and Sakurai taking a closer look at the competitive scene.

Everything points to Isaac either being included or excluded. He is not an Assist. If he was he would have been shown with Grey... Gray? Fox as a returning Brawl AT. But he wasn’t. It would be odd, if he were an AT, to just randomly show him in another unrelated Smash reveal.

On the topic of unlockable AT. I don’t think ATs need to unlocked this time around. Plus Sakurai is aware of the fan demand. He’d at the very least show his AT to quell the fan outcry (Waluigi, Ashley, Shovel Knight got this treatment).

Then there’s, of course, the Rathalos tweet.

The perfect theming of 3 newcomers that people really want: Isaac (Sun), Skull Kid (Moon), Geno (Stars). Literally the only thing that screws up this perfect coincidence is the possible Gen 7 pokemon.

Although if you want my opinion, I don’t think Ultimate is going to get a new Pokemon rep. Especially not Inciniroar.

I’ll eat my own words if I’m wrong but hear me out.

Inciniroars popularity in the speculation scene only exploded when Vergeben said it wasn’t Decidueye. You see, unless something drastic amongst the community changed, I remember very few people actually liking Inciniroar because he was yet another bipedal Fire Starter with an emphasis on Brawling (he may not be fighting type, but he still gives off those vibes). Decidueye was the popular one. Pretty much the only popular one. So why Inciniroar? Because Primarina wouldn’t really work in Smash and some guy on the Internet said it wasn’t Decidueye.

Plus we’re coming up on the final reveals here. And the newcomers have been characters people want. Even Isabelle has a decent following. I just feel like Inciniroar wouldn’t be that exciting a reveal.

100% agreed

 

[Mav485]

Thinking back on the Smash Ultimate Poll that just concluded, we took 2nd which is awesome in a lot of ways. Upon thinking about it though, I am curious why certain characters were left out. Ken, Dixie, and Shadow come to mind. Is there anyone else?

All this to say, do you think any of those missing ones would have got up to the Top 3 level?

 

[Ultinarok]

lol, you should show me the tshirt. I want to get some gaming merch but I love so many games and characters its hard to choose

Also I was the one who mentioned that. The context is, if Isaac had any mentor in Smash who would be secretly cheering him on, it would be Falcon. His series his dead and his empathy would extend to those from dead series.

Though the Captain Planet spin would be fun too. Everyone has a corresponding element in Smash, though Peach could work for Heart too :b

Haha yeah the Captain Planet was more of a joke thing because of the elements and Captain Falcon being a superhero-like mentor. Still have no idea why Heart is apparently an element.

Also, I will take a picture of the shirt in a few weeks. I'm actually in the middle of packing to move and my shirts all are packed away (and I can't unpack them until we officially move in on the 19th, staying with family until then.) And if I unpack them, my wife will kill me because she has them meticulously packed lol. But yeah its pretty cool.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

Thinking back on the Smash Ultimate Poll that just concluded, we took 2nd which is awesome in a lot of ways. Upon thinking about it though, I am curious why certain characters were left out. Ken, Dixie, and Shadow come to mind. Is there anyone else?

All this to say, do you think any of those missing ones would have got up to the Top 3 level?

There was a separate poll for echo fighters, and those three were on it. I think that if they were included in the main poll, all would've placed decently (perhaps even sneaking in the top 10?).

 

[?!?!?!]

Edit: hello mods please remove this thx

 

[SonicLink125]

Lon'qu is a beast. Best supports in the game and a sick unit. I actually have a Lon'qu T-shirt that I custom ordered online lol. Travis Willingham is a damn good voice actor for him too.

Also did someone here call Falcon Isaac's mentor at one point? Does that mean we can call Isaac Captain Planet due to his mastery of the 4 elements? (And 'Heart' of course, since he's won all of our hearts).

Yes. And then I added that they both have Yellow Scarfs and both their series are in dormant hell. Then I went ahead and said that Falcon was All Might and Isaac is Deku. Lol

Edit: words

 

[NoOtherPersona]

Well, if it makes you guys feel better, Capcom and Sega have a lot of series they ignore too :b

Edit: Namco too

Don't get even get me started on Sega..... so many games so little time and Capcom hell might as well and konami to the list too breaks my heart

 

[Q-Long]

Edit: hello mods please remove this thx

what did you post you silly bugger

Don't get even get me started on Sega..... so many games so little time and Capcom hell might as well and konami to the list too breaks my heart

New Skies of Arcadia when!?

at least sega's making new streets of rage and shenmue, but yeah new skies and nights would be cool

 

[?!?!?!]

what did you post you silly bugger

I was replying to a post and didn't realize that someone had already answered the same thing before me :d

Don't get even get me started on Sega..... so many games so little time and Capcom hell might as well and konami to the list too breaks my heart

I gotta say, capcom has been doing a lot better recently. Revived megaman with a great game, and devil may cry 5 is coming too. They definitely have some work to do but I think they're finally on the right track