Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Good Guy Giygas]

So I was bored and decided to make these silly pics. Just imagining stuff that they could make now that the trademark thing has been going on around lately. It's ok to dream I guess…
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Wow, I really want that Switch. These all look awesome though!

 

[THE 6r]

So I was bored and decided to make these silly pics. Just imagining stuff that they could make now that the trademark thing has been going on around lately. It's ok to dream I guess…
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Honestly that looks awesome. I could definitely see them doing something like that if Nintendo really went all-in on pushing the franchise.

 

[SonicLink125]

So I was bored and decided to make these silly pics. Just imagining stuff that they could make now that the trademark thing has been going on around lately. It's ok to dream I guess…
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OH...MY...I NEED THIS IN MY LIFE!!!!!!!!!

 

[TappyBat]

i want that amiibo

 

[Confirmation]

So I was bored and decided to make these silly pics. Just imagining stuff that they could make now that the trademark thing has been going on around lately. It's ok to dream I guess…
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These are actually super good, holy crap. Give me 8 of those Djinn

 

[SonicLink125]

Now that I'm thinking about it, does anyone here know the light up Switch Stand where you place a glass/clear plastic design on it to glow? Well, would anyone be able to make a custom Golden Sun one?

 

[Confirmation]

Pokemon Sound Track added:
https://www.smashbros.com/en_AU/sound/index.html

Music theory is against Verge now. Big if true

 

[Billybae10K]

Pokemon Sound Track added:
https://www.smashbros.com/en_AU/sound/index.html

Music theory is against Verge now. Big if true

Eh, if Incineroar is announced in a Direct with, say, Isaac, they'd just put Golden Sun music up and badda bing, badda boom, problem solved. It's noteworthy but there are work arounds.

 

[THE 6r]

Pokemon Sound Track added:
https://www.smashbros.com/en_AU/sound/index.html

Music theory is against Verge now. Big if true

Or music theory is just an arbitrary fan rule that has yet to be broken and could easily be false (not saying Verge is right, just saying that there are numerous examples of fan rules being wrong).

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Pokemon Sound Track added:
https://www.smashbros.com/en_AU/sound/index.html

Music theory is against Verge now. Big if true

I'd say the theory only is right in certain instances, and in other instances...it's off the mark.

 

[Nazyrus]

Now that I'm thinking about it, does anyone here know the light up Switch Stand where you place a glass/clear plastic design on it to glow? Well, would anyone be able to make a custom Golden Sun one?

Something like this?

 

[JaidynReiman]

Or music theory is just an arbitrary fan rule that has yet to be broken and could easily be false (not saying Verge is right, just saying that there are numerous examples of fan rules being wrong).

Music Theory isn't a "fan rule". Its called a "theory" for a reason. However, them holding back the AC music when the Direct got delayed directly corresponds to the Music Theory, and is the biggest evidence for it.


No one would've batted an eye at random AC music getting revealed at random. They didn't have to hold it back, and the track in question had nothing to do with Isabelle.

 

[Xenigma]

I gotta say, as a music history major in college, the idea of "music theory" being something that is being discussed among the Smash fanbase right now highly amuses me.

As for what this new Pokemon track means? Who knows? I'm still inclined to believe Vergeben's right about Incineroar, but honestly, I'd love for that to be wrong for the sake of characters like Isaac/Geno/??? making into the base roster.

 

[Sordim522]

It’s funny. For how much the original neogaf leak got labeled as fake, it has more supporting it than nearly any other leak should music theory hold true. I don’t believe it. Just think it’s funny.

 

[THE 6r]

Music Theory isn't a "fan rule". Its called a "theory" for a reason. However, them holding back the AC music when the Direct got delayed directly corresponds to the Music Theory, and is the biggest evidence for it.


No one would've batted an eye at random AC music getting revealed at random. They didn't have to hold it back, and the track in question had nothing to do with Isabelle.

Yes, but Pokemon is a large franchise with a lot of music and characters. They don't need to add music for the series if they do something along the lines of what Billybae10K said earlier about them revealing a newcomer from a different series unrepresented on the music part of the website (like Isaac, Geno, Some other 3rd party, Earthbound, RH, etc.). While the theory does have quite a bit of evidence backing it up, it shouldn't be taken as absolute prophecy.

I gotta say, as a music history major in college, the idea of "music theory" being something that is being discussed among the Smash fanbase right now highly amuses me.

As someone who is planning on being a composition major, it does feel little abnormal to hear about "music theory" and remember that they're not talking about some, crazy bitonal work and trying to analyze the use of an E-flat 11 chord.

 

[GoodGrief741]

If the possibility that we won’t get a Pokémon newcomer this time around exists, I’d be thankful. Not saying I believe the music theory, but curious nonetheless.

 

[Confirmation]

Eh, if Incineroar is announced in a Direct with, say, Isaac, they'd just put Golden Sun music up and badda bing, badda boom, problem solved. It's noteworthy but there are work arounds.

Oho, but they'd need a different unique newcomer for that, wouldn't they? Which would go against Box Theory w/ Incineroar and Ken.

So no matter what, a theory dies :D

 

[QcSlayer]

Pokemon music is added, Incineroar is super likely... mmmm, maybe an annoucement next week whit a brand new character?

Would be weird to releash a Pokemon music not close to Incineroar reveal, right?

Edit: And yet we have a Kirby music but no Dee...

 

[Fire Tactician]

Pokemon is my favorite video game series- it might not contain my favorite or most played games, but it has meant a lot to me growing up. That being said, Pokemon does not need a newcomer in Ultimate and I wouldn't be surprised not to see one.

Pokemon is monumentally large, so not having a newcomer might seem strange, but they're adding three characters (one of which uses two other Pokemon) that weren't in Smash 4's base roster. For a series that is known to use nostalgia as a powerful weapon, that alone is the kind of thing that Pokemon would probably prefer to a straight up newcomer (plus Let's Go will feature Mewtwo, Squirtle, and Ivysaur). Gen VII did a lot of things right, but also hit a weird stagnant point with underwhelming "3rd versions" and the 3DS' waning lifespan, so I wouldn't be surprised that Game Freak might have wanted to stress some of its older characters who are currently beloved rather than to distract people with a Pokemon that will be kinda outdated as early as next year with Pokemon Switch.

That's not to say that Pokemon isn't going to get any highlights, but we have seen some already with a ton of Alolan Pokeball Pokemon (Exeggutor, Vulpix, the box legends, Raichu, Mimikyu), which I guess could suffice when it comes to a Smash that is specifically seeming to cater to fan requests. We also might get a Pokefloats 2, so there's an extra bonus to Pokemon.

 

[THE 6r]

So I suppose it's time for Pokemon fans, if music theory holds, to start speculating about Gen VIII DLC for Smash (it wouldn't surprise me if they did that).

 

[Nazyrus]

Pokemon is my favorite video game series- it might not contain my favorite or most played games, but it has meant a lot to me growing up. That being said, Pokemon does not need a newcomer in Ultimate and I wouldn't be surprised not to see one.

Pokemon is monumentally large, so not having a newcomer might seem strange, but they're adding three characters (one of which uses two other Pokemon) that weren't in Smash 4's base roster. For a series that is known to use nostalgia as a powerful weapon, that alone is the kind of thing that Pokemon would probably prefer to a straight up newcomer (plus Let's Go will feature Mewtwo, Squirtle, and Ivysaur). Gen VII did a lot of things right, but also hit a weird stagnant point with underwhelming "3rd versions" and the 3DS' waning lifespan, so I wouldn't be surprised that Game Freak might have wanted to stress some of its older characters who are currently beloved rather than to distract people with a Pokemon that will be kinda outdated as early as next year with Pokemon Switch.

That's not to say that Pokemon isn't going to get any highlights, but we have seen some already with a ton of Alolan Pokeball Pokemon (Exeggutor, Vulpix, the box legends, Raichu, Mimikyu), which I guess could suffice when it comes to a Smash that is specifically seeming to cater to fan requests. We also might get a Pokefloats 2, so there's an extra bonus to Pokemon.

I gotta agree here. With the pokeballs and whatnot i think not getting a playable pokemon from Gen VII wouldn't really shock at all, nor it's needed to begin with. I believe we might get Incineroar but at the same time if we don't then that's also ok.

 

[Deleted member]

I prefer the way the soundtrack sounded in the original Ruby/Sapphire, which is my second favorite installment after Gold/Silver because I friggin' love Hoenn (even with all the water), so more from this part is fine.

So, care to explain how this affects whatever theory it was that was supposedly disproved today?

 

[SonicLink125]

Something like this?
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YES!!! I need to find out how to get something like this!

 

[Fire Tactician]

I gotta agree here. With the pokeballs and whatnot i think not getting a playable pokemon from Gen VII wouldn't really shock at all, nor it's needed to begin with. I believe we might get Incineroar but at the same time if we don't then that's also ok.

Like I'll feel a little bad for Incineroar fans, but I'll feel similarly bad for Decidueye and Lycanroc ones too. I mean, any Pokemon is really a stretch because at this point it's a 1/800 chance to pick the right one. Sure, maybe only 1/100 or 1/50 make sense in your mind, but tons of arguments could be made for tons of Pokemon. Other than leakers, we've had no clues as to what the newcomer is going to be (or if there'll be one), so picking the right one is complete luck.

Honestly, the Pokemon needs something super special. Lucario was heavily promo'd and got its own movie, Greninja got a special form and tons of focus in the anime... Gen VII hasn't had any breakaway stars like that...

I prefer the way the soundtrack sounded in the original Ruby/Sapphire, which is my second favorite installment after Gold/Silver because I friggin' love Hoenn (even with all the water), so more from this part is fine.

So, care to explain how this affects whatever theory it was that was supposedly disproved today?

The theory is that no music has been released for the website from a series that hasn't had their newcomer revealed yet. With a Pokemon piece coming out tonight, that means that the theory is either wrong or that we're not getting a new Pokemon rep, which kills most "leaks." What're we going to trust- a leaker who has been mostly right, or a trend that seems to have merit so far? Something died tonight, be it the theory or some leaks...

 

[Nazyrus]

Like I'll feel a little bad for Incineroar fans, but I'll feel similarly bad for Decidueye and Lycanroc ones too. I mean, any Pokemon is really a stretch because at this point it's a 1/800 chance to pick the right one. Sure, maybe only 1/100 or 1/50 make sense in your mind, but tons of arguments could be made for tons of Pokemon. Other than leakers, we've had no clues as to what the newcomer is going to be (or if there'll be one), so picking the right one is complete luck.

Honestly, the Pokemon needs something super special. Lucario was heavily promo'd and got its own movie, Greninja got a special form and tons of focus in the anime... Gen VII hasn't had any breakaway stars like that...

The theory is that no music has been released for the website from a series that hasn't had their newcomer revealed yet. With a Pokemon piece coming out tonight, that means that the theory is either wrong or that we're not getting a new Pokemon rep, which kills most "leaks." What're we going to trust- a leaker who has been mostly right, or a trend that seems to have merit so far? Something died tonight, be it the theory or some leaks...

I'm gonna say it was the theory… but -shrugs- who knows, we'll see

 

[Fire Tactician]

Listed some examples of the "Music Theory":

• The Animal Crossing music was delayed a week to be revealed after the Isabelle trailer and wasn't shown until after she was.
• The Metroid piece dropped after E3, so echoes don't seem to be factored into this.
• The DK piece dropped after K. Rool's trailer.
• The other songs revealed are from series that have been typically speculated to not be getting newcomers (Mario, Pikmin, Yoshi, Fire Emblem, Mega Man, F-Zero, edit- Street Fighter)
• As JDogindy pointed out, the FE track was a week or two after Chrom was revealed, though this does seem coincidental because...
• Echo fighters seem to oddly not be included in this theory... sorta... we got Dark Samus after the Metroid track and Ken is likely in the game and we already have a Street Fighter piece. That said, the FE one only dropped after we got Chrom, so it's kinda hazy as to what we should believe.
• Kirby is in an odd spot- many suspect Bandana Dee, but there was a Kirby piece. This could either disprove the theory should he get revealed or be a sign that we're not getting Bandana Dee.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I prefer the way the soundtrack sounded in the original Ruby/Sapphire, which is my second favorite installment after Gold/Silver because I friggin' love Hoenn (even with all the water), so more from this part is fine.

So, care to explain how this affects whatever theory it was that was supposedly disproved today?

The main bulk of the Music Theory is that they are saving music tracks for franchises with new fighters until after a fighter gets revealed for that franchise.


The main bulk of this comes from the August Direct, where they clearly saved King K. Rool's music track until after his reveal, but then the next track revealed after that was also an FE track, when Chrom got revealed prior. (Dark Samus got revealed in this same Direct and Metroid had music since E3, but Ridley was also revealed at E3, too.)

Its hard to say what it means in regards to Echo Fighters, just throwing this out there.


The other factor is that every track seems to be for a new franchise with a new composer. There is one exception to the latter, and that's the main theme (the composer of the main theme also has a separate track listed). In terms of franchises, if you count the number of franchises left and weeks until release, taking into account those that won't have any (likely Duck Hunt, Ice Climber, and Final Fantasy at least), there's roughly enough for every franchise to get one, along with a few additional IP's.


What really made the Music Theory especially notable was the Animal Crossing music track, which I recall seeing many people saying around then that it "proved" the Music Theory. The AC track has nothing to do with Isabelle, and nobody would've batted an eye if they revealed that instead of Pikmin. But they still pushed that music back when the Direct got delayed. That, I feel, is very notable.

Listed some examples of the "Music Theory":

• The Animal Crossing music was delayed a week to be revealed after the Isabelle trailer and wasn't shown until after she was.
• The Metroid piece dropped after E3, so echoes don't seem to be factored into this.
• The DK piece dropped after K. Rool's trailer.
• The other songs revealed are from series that have been typically speculated to not be getting newcomers (Mario, Pikmin, Yoshi, Fire Emblem, Mega Man, F-Zero)
• Kirby is in an odd spot- many suspect Bandana Dee, but there was a Kirby piece. This could either disprove the theory should he get revealed or be a sign that we're not getting Bandana Dee.

Fire Emblem got Chrom as an Echo, and FE music was next in line after Castlevania and DK. The Metroid music was revealed after Ridley's reveal, notably.


I personally would find it very strange if they revealed Incineroar and didn't add music to the website afterwards for Pokemon Sun/Moon.

 

[Q-Long]

omg, they added Steven's theme? He's my favorite champion!

Isaac confirmed cause rocks and metal and stuff!

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I prefer the way the soundtrack sounded in the original Ruby/Sapphire, which is my second favorite installment after Gold/Silver because I friggin' love Hoenn (even with all the water), so more from this part is fine.

So, care to explain how this affects whatever theory it was that was supposedly disproved today?

I actually like this theme. It sounds very energetic. And rockin. Then again, i think the GS remix in brawl is better than the original.

Though the original isn't second best, unfortunately.

This is.

• The other songs revealed are from series that have been typically speculated to not be getting newcomers (Mario, Pikmin, Yoshi, Fire Emblem, Mega Man, F-Zero)

With the exception of echo fighters, since that would deconfirm Ken.

 

[Fire Tactician]

The main bulk of the Music Theory is that they are saving music tracks for franchises with new fighters until after a fighter gets revealed for that franchise.

Ha, you said that more eloquently than I could. Thanks.

Now that I think about it, it would be strange to get a new Pokemon rep and then not a piece with him a week or two later...

Random thought- we could get a Pokemon echo fighter and the music theory would still be safe. Now that I think about it, adding in Steven's theme makes me think of Hoenn, so of the Hoenn Pokemon, Gardevoir and then Gothitelle Sceptile comes to mind. I'm sure that he had a ballot presence as a perennial favorite and as a starter in the recent ORAS games... and I could see his moveset working well over Greninja... Replace Hydro Pump with just a Quick Attack, Water Shuriken with Energy Ball, and water blade attacks with Leaf Blade variations. Substitute could stay the same, though Shadow Sneak would need to be worked out... just a thought...

Fire Emblem got Chrom as an Echo, and FE music was next in line after Castlevania and DK. The Metroid music was revealed after Ridley's reveal, notably.

With the exception of echo fighters, since that would deconfirm Ken.

Oh, I tried to imply that echo fighters seemed to not apply to the music theory, but I kinda hid it in the Ridley section instead of as a separate bullet point. I'll go edit my list for completion's sake.

 

[Xenigma]

Pokemon music is added, Incineroar is super likely... mmmm, maybe an annoucement next week whit a brand new character?

Would be weird to releash a Pokemon music not close to Incineroar reveal, right?

Edit: And yet we have a Kirby music but no Dee...

That's what makes the idea of music theory interesting, isn't it? If each series only gets a single track on the website prior to release, and each unique newcomer comes with a track, we're guaranteed to not get a unique newcomer from quite a few existing Smash series. Assuming this is true, I've gone ahead and compiled a list of all the franchises that are still eligible:

• Bayonetta
• Duck Hunt
• Earthbound/Mother
• Final Fantasy
• Game & Watch
• Ice Climber
• Kid Icarus
• Pac-Man
• Punch-Out!!
• R.O.B.
• Sonic
• Star Fox
• Wario
• Wii Fit
• Xenoblade

While 15 franchises isn't a bad list at all, many of those don't really have a good second choice or would otherwise be surprising to pull another unique character from, so I'd cut the list down to Earthbound/Mother, Sonic, Star Fox, Wario, and Xenoblade. Of those, Star Fox already lost Krystal, Wario already lost Ashley, and Earthbound/Mother would arguably only get Ninten as an echo. Sonic is plausible if we take the precedent of Isabelle since that could make the expected Shadow a semi-clone. As for Xenoblade...well, I guess music theory bodes well for fans of Rex/Pyra and Elma, doesn't it?

My biggest takeaway from this exercise is that music theory, while an interesting idea, probably isn't realistic. Not only would that presumably exclude Incineroar, but also Bandana Dee and even arguably Geno. It's nice for Isaac, sure, but if you believe in Vergeben or the simple idea of the ballot being critical for character selection, those seem like very notable characters to have deconfirmed for the base roster. My gut feeling is the music theory is bunk, but it's an interesting consideration all the same.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Looks like Verge is mad about the music theory.

That's not the worst part.


The worst thing is that he didn't even try doing a good insult this time.

 

[KoopaSaki]

Well the music only starts when they reveal 50 Cent in the trailer

I honenstly think even if that rathalos tw

Ha, you said that more eloquently than I could. Thanks.

Now that I think about it, it would be strange to get a new Pokemon rep and then not a piece with him a week or two later...

Random thought- we could get a Pokemon echo fighter and the music theory would still be safe. Now that I think about it, adding in Steven's theme makes me think of Hoenn, so of the Hoenn Pokemon, Gardevoir and then Gothitelle Sceptile comes to mind. I'm sure that he had a ballot presence as a perennial favorite and as a starter in the recent ORAS games... and I could see his moveset working well over Greninja... Replace Hydro Pump with just a Quick Attack, Water Shuriken with Energy Ball, and water blade attacks with Leaf Blade variations. Substitute could stay the same, though Shadow Sneak would need to be worked out... just a thought...



Oh, I tried to imply that echo fighters seemed to not apply to the music theory, but I kinda hid it in the Ridley section instead of as a separate bullet point. I'll go edit my list for completion's sake.

Hey guys rumors are circulating that Steve from Minecraft is going to be revealed as a playable character on Saturday at MineCon! If Steve makes it in, do you guys think that’s going to hurt isaacs chances or do you think he is likely enough to make it in?

 

[Q-Long]

Mr. Game and Watch... It would be very interesting if they added a song from the GBA games.

Looks like Verge is mad about the music theory.

That's not the worst part.
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The worst thing is that he didn't even try doing a good insult this time.

Why is he so mad? Did people insult him or something?

If his theory is true he wins and if its wrong he can just say his info wasnt completely right... like he has no reason to be mad lol

 

[Luigifan18]

Mr. Game and Watch... It would be very interesting if they added a song from the GBA games.

Oh, yes it was. Game & Watch Gallery, how I've missed you.

Why is he so mad? Did people insult him or something?

If his theory is true he wins and if its wrong he can just say his info wasnt completely right... like he has no reason to be mad lol

Yeah, people have most likely been insulting him. I haven't been looking at GameFAQs recently 'cause I've been scrambling to keep up with Smashboards, but I wouldn't be surprised if a similar uproar is going on over there.

 

[Saer2k]

So I was bored and decided to make these silly pics. Just imagining stuff that they could make now that the trademark thing has been going on around lately. It's ok to dream I guess…
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HOW MUCH DO YOU WANT IT?!!
but jokes aside though, good job on the design. I'm hoping Nintendo looks at this
for ideas if they start making Golden Sun merch.

 

[Fire Tactician]

As for Xenoblade...well, I guess music theory bodes well for fans of Rex/Pyra and Elma, doesn't it?

Yes it does... //squeals

and even arguably Geno.

While I usually take anti-Geno stances, I would think that Mario would be allowed to play by special rules, or maybe even Mario RPG could be considered its own franchise (so that SE keeps it separate?). I wouldn't count Geno out for that reason.

Looks like Verge is mad about the music theory.

That's not the worst part.
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The worst thing is that he didn't even try doing a good insult this time.

This is actually kinda funny to me. I have no doubt that most leakers have some sort of ego thing going on- they're in it for the reputation or twenty seconds of internet fame. I guess you could have some white knight leaker who is seeking to inform the community, but I honestly doubt that someone who didn't want attention would even leak anything.

People with ego issues lash out easily when their power is called into question, so that's what this looks like to me. I'm starting to suddenly doubt Verge a little more because of his response... if he was confident in his information, couldn't he just claim ignorance instead of being so defensive?

Hey guys rumors are circulating that Steve from Minecraft is going to be revealed as a playable character on Saturday at MineCon! If Steve makes it in, do you guys think that’s going to hurt isaacs chances or do you think he is likely enough to make it in?

I don't think Steve really has any bearing on Isaac. Some leaks implicate them both, some don't. Even Vergeben couldn't guarantee Steve, so it's not like he deconfirms Isaac via Vergeben.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

Looks like Verge is mad about the music theory.

That's not the worst part.
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The worst thing is that he didn't even try doing a good insult this time.

Jeez why so angry usually he keeps his cool no need to explode now

 

[bassem6]

Mr. Game and Watch... It would be very interesting if they added a song from the GBA games.

Why is he so mad? Did people insult him or something?

If his theory is true he wins and if its wrong he can just say his info wasnt completely right... like he has no reason to be mad lol

Hot take:
I'd be annoyed af too if people were acting all entitled towards me expecting some kind of explanation for every little thing that happens that they misconstrue as "evidence" against my leak (assuming his leak is true which is likely considering he's been right about everything thus far). Like he doesn't owe anybody an explanation for anything lol. If anything, posts like that would discourage him from posting future leaks from his sources. The anonymity of the internet encourages people to be excruciatingly more obnoxious than they would be in real life.

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

Jeez why so angry usually he keeps his cool no need to explode now

Ego. That’s really it. Seen this kind of behavior before.

People are starting to question his credibility. And it probably scares him after being treated like the Jesus Christ of Ultimate for so long.

“When you’re high on life for so long, that’s gonna be one helluva fall.” - Jupiter Ivan 2018