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Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

XenoWarriorX

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Yeah, people have most likely been insulting him. I haven't been looking at GameFAQs recently 'cause I've been scrambling to keep up with Smashboards, but I wouldn't be surprised if a similar uproar is going on over there.
Why is he so mad? Did people insult him or something?

If his theory is true he wins and if its wrong he can just say his info wasnt completely right... like he has no reason to be mad lol
The issue is that Verge's reactions seem almost unnecessary and childish in retrospect.

For instance, here's him insulting someone with "Your mother dropped you on your head a child" in german.
unknown.png

Or something like that to the effect.

Verge should just not respond if he isn't gonna answer the original question. lol What is he? 12?
 
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Metocles

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Hey guys rumors are circulating that Steve from Minecraft is going to be revealed as a playable character on Saturday at MineCon! If Steve makes it in, do you guys think that’s going to hurt isaacs chances or do you think he is likely enough to make it in?
Steve feels similar to many characters that have shoved many characters to the margins in the past. Just like Snake in Brawl which was neat for sure and I'm glad we have him. But you can't help but feel that it shoves some other characters backwards in development time to the point of just being cut. Steve would potentially be one in a long line of Smash random element characters that pop up that tend to ever so slightly nudge possible characters out of the way in order to have happen. It's usually why those kinds of characters get the vitriol that they do.

Because, remember that it's not just about making the character. It's putting in music, stages, ATs, items, bosses, trophies that take some legwork to accomplish. Not to mention, I think Steve would get just about the most polarizing reception ever for a character if he were to happen.

At this point, I predict he doesn't. It really feels like a flavor of the month speculation that caught fire and got out of hand.
 

ZelDan

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Mr. Game and Watch... It would be very interesting if they added a song from the GBA games.

If we're going to get any Game and Watch Gallery music, I'd want remixes of:


Dammit now I'm getting Game and Watch gallery nolstalgia
 
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CheckmateChuck

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For instance, here's him insulting someone with "Your mother dropped you on your head a child" in german.
View attachment 166681

Or something like that to the effect.
That's not even correct German haha! There's no preposition, so he's talking about how their mother let 'their head' fall. Not let them fall on their head. That's hilarious, thanks so much for sharing.
 

Skyblade12

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Steve feels similar to many characters that have shoved many characters to the margins in the past. Just like Snake in Brawl which was neat for sure and I'm glad we have him. But you can't help but feel that it shoves some other characters backwards in development time to the point of just being cut. Steve would potentially be one in a long line of Smash random element characters that pop up that tend to ever so slightly nudge possible characters out of the way in order to have happen. It's usually why those kinds of characters get the vitriol that they do.

Because, remember that it's not just about making the character. It's putting in music, stages, ATs, items, bosses, trophies that take some legwork to accomplish. Not to mention, I think Steve would get just about the most polarizing reception ever for a character if he were to happen.

At this point, I predict he doesn't. It really feels like a flavor of the month speculation that caught fire and got out of hand.
Steve would probably be the only Smash trailer with more Dislikes than Likes.
 

GoodGrief741

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How does music theory bode for my expected newcomers...
Isaac and Chorus Kids: Good I guess.
Dixie: this points to her being an Echo, although series with two unique newcomers might be exempt.
Skull Kid: Zelda music was never a blog update, but still, not a good sign.
Geno: he’d probably be an exception, as he’d be joining with licensed music.
Dee: not looking good, but I honestly can’t see him not making it in.

I think a corollary is possible, where if a couple of unique newcomers are revealed together the theory might not apply. That could explain possible oddities like Incineroar or Dee.
 

ZelDan

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The only character I want where the music theory could be a concern is Geno, but the Mario series has two icons or playlists for music, so, maybe that keeps Geno safe, assuming the music theory is accurate?
 

Isaac for Smash Pls

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We also have that extremely credible Ken leak to show that another Street Fighter rep is all but guaranteed (and honestly he was a shoo-in even before Verg), even though we've already seen Vega's theme.

Music theory is a wash imo.
 

KoopaSaki

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Steve would probably be the only Smash trailer with more Dislikes than Likes.[/
Steve would probably be the only Smash trailer with more Dislikes than Likes.
I’m just going to say one last thing before I call it a night. what do you guys think caused Isaac to be removed as an assist trophy in smash 4 and why is it that we feel different about his chances now after that has happened? My friend who is a Isaac supporter like me wanted to hear from you on that.
 

Fire Tactician

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Ooh, fun thought experiment...

Rex, Pyra, Mythra, Elma, Isaac: Pretty good...
Decidueye and Lycanroc: RIP
Sora: Fine, but we wouldn't get anything beforehand anyway.

We also have that extremely credible Ken leak to show that another Street Fighter rep is all but guaranteed (and honestly he was a shoo-in even before Verg), even though we've already seen Vega's theme.

Music theory is a wash imo.
That doesn't prove too much- we got Dark Samus after the Metroid piece. Maybe echoes are exempt (probably because they'll be revealed alongside more hyped characters.
 

NoOtherPersona

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Steve would probably be the only Smash trailer with more Dislikes than Likes.
And if he drops on the 29th like what people are saying honestly I just want it too be over already imma have to mute minecraft and Steve in advance on Twitter
 

pholtos

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The issue is that Verge's reactions seem almost unnecessary and childish in retrospect.

For instance, here's him insulting someone with "Your mother dropped you on your head a child" in german.
View attachment 166681

Or something like that to the effect.

Verge should just not respond if he isn't gonna answer the original question. lol What is he? 12?
"Tism" huh... yeah I think I've lost the only bit of respect I had for the guy.
Already wasn't a fan of him due to my distaste for leakers, but that. Yeah no. He's become someone I detest.

I’m just going to say one last thing before I call it a night. what do you guys think caused Isaac to be removed as an assist trophy in smash 4 and why is it that we feel different about his chances now after that has happened? My friend who is a Isaac supporter like me wanted to hear from you on that.
(I'm guessing you messed up when posting)
I'm under the assumption that Isaac was taken out AT-wise due to technological issues involving the 3DS. The 3DS really screwed up Smash 4.
 

TempestSurge

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With how hard he doubled down on Incineroar, I'd say he may be legitimately worried about being flat-out laughed out of SmashFAQs.
Seems a bit silly for him to get thrown off by a theory if he had already double checked with his sources to find out who the Pokemon rep was previously. Unless he's flat out speculating like the rest of us, no reason for him to start sweating.
 
D

Deleted member

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If Verge is reacting this badly, I say anything he got right was coincidence and anything he had predicted is up in the air.
 

Isaac for Smash Pls

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That doesn't prove too much- we got Dark Samus after the Metroid piece. Maybe echoes are exempt (probably because they'll be revealed alongside more hyped characters.
Maybe, but that's a lot of bending over backwards and adding rules and exceptions to a fan-made theory when it's easier to just believe that songs published on the blog have no meaningful relationship to unrevealed characters. It's a nice theory that seems to line up with certain things, but at the end of the day I think Sakurai just does what he wants regardless of previous patterns.

Either way I think Nintendo had better put out another info-dump soon. We're like a dog that's starting to chew on its own legs out of boredom. Outside of the Ken leak, nothing exciting has happened in weeks. All we have left are the Vergenauts fighting against the blog theorists and some dudes in the corner shouting about Steve from Minecraft and Fallout Boy.
 

Isaac for Smash Pls

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Sorry guys I meant to edit my post and it seems to have double posted instead. Not sure how to delete...
 
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Organization XIII

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it's easier to just believe that songs published on the blog have no meaningful relationship to unrevealed characters.
While I agree that the music theory probably doesn't matter we can't say that the music has nothing to do with unrevealed characters as both K Rool and Simon got their tracks after being revealed and more convincingly the AC track was held back along with Isabelle after the earthquake so some tracks actually do have some connection to characters.
 

XenoWarriorX

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The link on there is dead. All traces of evidence are gone.

Is it related to what i posted earlier?


"Tism" huh... yeah I think I've lost the only bit of respect I had for the guy.
Already wasn't a fan of him due to my distaste for leakers, but that. Yeah no. He's become someone I detest.
i remember him acting like an asshole at one instance...but never this childishly.

This is absolutely unprofessional.
 
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Metocles

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I’m just going to say one last thing before I call it a night. what do you guys think caused Isaac to be removed as an assist trophy in smash 4 and why is it that we feel different about his chances now after that has happened? My friend who is a Isaac supporter like me wanted to hear from you on that.
I think we've covered it in this thread before with many of our theories, though it's hard to say for sure in the end. I think a general consensus is being due to hardware limitations that the two versions of the game imposed. Specifically the 3DS one, where they cut out a lot of stuff and even Ice Climbers because Sakurai even said they couldn't get to work with things like 8-player smash.

The problems that Isaac runs into with this is similar to a lot of the wall items and ATs like Helirin that create extra surfaces that probably interfered with many of the scrolling stages because there were some strange physics going on between the two versions.

It's quite possible that Sakurai planned to bring on a Golden Sun character but decided against it due to Dark Dawn's failure, seeing as Sm4sh was largely a relevancy inspired cast save for few. In which case, I think you could still potentially run into a problem if Sakurai decided to incorporate the Move psynergy into a moveset. I don't think we'll ever hear about it, honestly and it's possible that it's simply wishful thinking. Something I will point out and agree with that other users have stated. Creating a perfect Isaac moveset would both be easy to do and hard to do. Easy with the theory-crafting level of drawing up the skeleton of a moveset that he can do. There's just too much source material to draw from. I think it is actually harder to stay faithful to what most of us have in mind for what we're proposing Isaac to do and would take a little extra work.

If you had him going with Djinn, or using large psynergy attacks or some other gimmick they would require more playtesting and balancing than a normal character than say, Marth. And Sakurai is a stickler for the details, so you know that if he is going to make Isaac it'll be in for a penny, in for a pound. I'm sure that if we do get an Isaac we'll be satisfied in some way with it but it probably won't be what we're expecting.
 

ZelDan

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If what Verge said or knew was actually accurate, then why would he get upset at something like this? Like yeah, people NOW will doubt you with the music theory being a thing, but when Incineroar and ken hypothetically pop up, people might lay off on the doubt again.
 

Luigifan18

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The link on there is dead. All traces of evidence are gone.

Is it related to what i posted earlier?

i remember him acting like an ******* at one instance...but never this childishly.

This is absolutely unprofessional.
It's related to his use of "tism" as an insult.
 

Saer2k

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I honenstly think even if that rathalos tw

Hey guys rumors are circulating that Steve from Minecraft is going to be revealed as a playable character on Saturday at MineCon! If Steve makes it in, do you guys think that’s going to hurt isaacs chances or do you think he is likely enough to make it in?
No I doubt it, Isaac chances are still the same in my eyes, he's still has a pretty high chance. What confuses me is why would they announce
another character in a different event besides EVO. I get Steve and Minecon make sense, but that's a niche demographic. Not everyone is into Minecraft, it's a odd choice for Nintendo if they went with that (also a obvious prediction).
 

Fire Tactician

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Maybe, but that's a lot of bending over backwards and adding rules and exceptions to a fan-made theory when it's easier to just believe that songs published on the blog have no meaningful relationship to unrevealed characters. It's a nice theory that seems to line up with certain things, but at the end of the day I think Sakurai just does what he wants regardless of previous patterns.

Either way I think Nintendo had better put out another info-dump soon. We're like a dog that's starting to chew on its own legs out of boredom. Outside of the Ken leak, nothing exciting has happened in weeks. All we have left are the Vergenauts fighting against the blog theorists and some dudes in the corner shouting about Steve from Minecraft and Fallout Boy.
Honestly, I'd like to chalk it up to randomness myself, though finding order in chaos is just human nature. I like the idea of the music theory and it's fun to talk about since it has some interesting implications, but I don't quite subscribe to it. Anyone using it as definitive proof needs to dial it down.

Sorry guys I meant to edit my post and it seems to have double posted instead. Not sure how to delete...
We've all been there at some point :\
 

Holdenon

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If what Verge said or knew was actually accurate, then why would he get upset at something like this? Like yeah, people NOW will doubt you with the music theory being a thing, but when Incineroar and ken hypothetically pop up, people might lay off on the doubt again.
I think he was mad at the people always tagging him and harassing him, not at the music theory. Still not on.
 

jweb23

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We also have that extremely credible Ken leak to show that another Street Fighter rep is all but guaranteed (and honestly he was a shoo-in even before Verg), even though we've already seen Vega's theme.

Music theory is a wash imo.
As stated by many now the Music Theory only seems to apply to unique newcomers.

Brinstar Depths remix came AFTER Ridley reveal
Bomb Rush Blush came AFTER Inkling reveal
Bloody Tears/Monster Dance came AFTER Simon reveal
Gang-Plank Galleon came AFTER King K Rool reveal
happy Home Designer remix came AFTER Isabelle reveal.

So far no echo character has been followed up with music. You could argue that Gear Up For came after Chrom but considering that didn’t happen for any other echo fighter...that’s seems to be an outlier or simple coincidence.

Just as I’ve said about all “leaks” that haven’t been proven false yet, be mindful of trends and possible patterns because they COULD be true. Also with Vergeben appearing to hit rock bottom because of this...maybe his info is wrong. I know myself and a few others talked about this a few weeks back but it is very likely Nintendo knows about the big leakers and created fake sources to throw us all off. There are people who even believe the numbering of the Blog posts have been changed to throw us all off because we figured out it’s pattern.

The point is, never dismiss something until it’s proven fake!
 

Nazyrus

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Everyone is a stranger on the internet. I won't defend Verge for his attitude, cause in the end that's his own personal life problems. I only care about his leaks and that's the only thing i will pay attention about him, i don't go to check his posts to care about his social life anyway. And him having to deal with gamefaqs is his own doing for not going somewhere else anyway (altho that site still deserves to get the **** they get and with their terrible mods that don't do anything useful lol, but yeah he gets triggered too easily and he has himself to blame for that and for staying there anyway).

Anyways, back to Isaac…
 
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TappyBat

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so we have how many weeks to wait and pray that a gs song doesn't show up on the site then?
 

JaidynReiman

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so we have how many weeks to wait and pray that a gs song doesn't show up on the site then?
We can safely guarantee that music going up for a franchise before any character is confirmed playable for that franchise is already a death sentence anyway. That would confirm the music track is for an "Other" franchise. Which we actually haven't had in a while.
 

MeatOfJustice

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So I suppose it's time for Pokemon fans, if music theory holds, to start speculating about Gen VIII DLC for Smash (it wouldn't surprise me if they did that).
I always thought that was more likely than a Gen 7 newcomer.
-
EDIT: I suppose Steven's theme in particular killed Sceptile's chances, as it would've been perfect for its trailer.
 
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QcSlayer

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No one forced Verg to leak originally, of course people would harash him if he has info on Ultimate, he dig is on grave, he as to live whit it.
 

Nazyrus

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Why? It's just as technically not wrong as Verge is. Until otherwise it's a theory worth considering if people are still bringing up Verge or the box theory.
I know i just worry about this specific thread with how they lose hope for even the weakest of theories sometimes lol. I think the theory is not entirely dead per say but it definitely suffered a blow today that should make people chill about it a bit. We'll see how it turns out.
Box theory is garbage tho, that I will say every day no matter what, lol. We are definitely getting more than 2 newcomers atm no matter what now, 4-5 at least.
 
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Sabrewulf238

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Music Theory isn't a "fan rule". Its called a "theory" for a reason. However, them holding back the AC music when the Direct got delayed directly corresponds to the Music Theory, and is the biggest evidence for it.


No one would've batted an eye at random AC music getting revealed at random. They didn't have to hold it back, and the track in question had nothing to do with Isabelle.
I do think that's really interesting. It shows they do plan to reveal music along with newcomers, even from existing series. So it could be notable that they posted a Pokemon track without a newcomer.

People point to Geno as an example of the music theory being wrong because Mario music has already been posted but that's assuming Geno will be represented with the Mario logo, which isn't a guarantee.

That said I'm not super convinced they couldn't just post another Pokemon song along with Incineroar...this is Pokemon we're talking about after all.
 
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