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Such Villainy!!! Should More Villains be included in Smash 4?

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majora_787

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Because zelda is such a huge series and ganondorf does not appear in every game
Bowser doesn't appear in every game, and neither does Wario. And it's a GIGANTIC series. Does that mean we get Count Bleck?

Seriously though. Ganondorf is perfectly fine, being the staple force of evil in the Zelda series in Gerudo form. We don't actually need huge amounts of antagonists in series that already have them just so we can cover their full series history. It's kind of unnecessary.
 

moneyfrenzy

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Bowser doesn't appear in every game, and neither does Wario. And it's a GIGANTIC series. Does that mean we get Count Bleck?

Seriously though. Ganondorf is perfectly fine, being the staple force of evil in the Zelda series in Gerudo form. We don't actually need huge amounts of antagonists in series that already have them just so we can cover their full series history. It's kind of unnecessary.
Bowser does appear in nearly every game, all but mario 2 i believe.
Wario represents his own series, and wario appears in every wario game
 

majora_787

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Bowser does appear in nearly every game, all but mario 2 i believe.
Wario represents his own series, and wario appears in every wario game
So Bowser doesn't appear in a Mario game. There you go.

Also I really don't think we need Porky. I sometimes still wonder how Mother has two characters. :p
 
D

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I mean why not? We have some good choices. K. Rool, Mewtwo (arguably), Ridley, Black Shadow, Samurai Goroh, Medusa, Captain Syrup, ect.
Should the bolded be added along with all Nintendo veterans from Brawl, I will ask for no more in regards to characters.
 

Manny Toons

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These should be the villains that appear in the next Smash hopeful as a playable characters:



.n_n.

I've always found it kind of hard to label Wario as a "villain". He's more of a bad natured anti-hero. Well, at least that's how he's portrayed nowadays.
 

Vann Accessible

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I like the picture, but I'd replace Medusa for Hades. There oughta be at least one female villain.

Medusa also was the original villain in Kid Icarus on NES. Therefore, she is also more important.

Edit: Also, needs more King Hippo. He's arguably more recognizable than Little Mac and he's awesome. :D
 

Shorts

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If Wario isn't a Villain, is Wolf? And, what about Medusa?
 

Big Rig Randy

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These should be the villains that appear in the next Smash hopeful as a playable characters:



.n_n.
I've never understodd why people want ***** like Black Shadow in the gam, hes been in fzero which hasn't had a knew game since our Lord and Savior George Bush was in office. Plus nobody outside of smelly neckbeards even know what fzero is.

That werid mither****er from Earthbound is an even worse choice, and Ridley is just plain reterdad
 

UltimateWario

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I don't care what a character is; villain, hero, man, woman, whatever. If they're interesting, throw them in. The only objections I have are if a series is overrepresented (my main disappointment with Rosalina's inclusion, much as I like the character herself).

Never understood Ghirahim love, to be perfectly frank. He's a huge anime stereotype, but people clamor on about how he's unique because he isn't Ganon. He's not unique. He's just every sadistic pretty-boy villain from every anime ever, and, as someone who doesn't like anime as a whole, it's not something I want to see in Smash. Vaati would be a much more interesting character, anyway, since we have plenty of "pretty" swordsmen and no one who uses wind as their primary means of attack, nor do we have a mage-type character, save Zelda, whose gimmick is her duality rather than her magic.

Skull Kid would've been the best choice, but he's been deconfirmed, so whatever. I think we all expect Mewtwo at this point, and Ridley...well, he's Ridley.

I've never understodd why people want ****s like Black Shadow in the gam, hes been in fzero which hasn't had a knew game since our Lord and Savior George Bush was in office. Plus nobody outside of smelly neckbeards even know what fzero is.

That werid mither****er from Earthbound is an even worse choice, and Ridley is just plain reterdad
There's one on every forum, isn't there...?
 

AncientTobacco

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Villains certainly seem to have gotten the shorter end of the stick in Smash. Strictly speaking, we have only have three: Bowser, Ganondorf and Wolf. Wario is an anti-hero at best and Dedede has pretty much gone from villain to anti-villain to anti-hero to hero. He doesn't do anything evil nowadays, unless he's possessed.

Then there's the fact that Ganondorf is a clone. His Smash incarnation doesn't represent the character well. And we've heard from Sakurai that originally he wasn't planned to be in Melee at all. He got lucky because he had a body type similar to Falcon, and they were looking for suitable clones. Wolf was likely low-priority in Brawl and added at the last minute due to the fact that he doesn't appear in SSE. So really, Bowser is the only villain in Smash that was high-priority and planned to appear from the start. In Smash 4 he's even been changed to be more accurate to his portrayal in the Mario games.

Why is Sakurai neglecting villains? Who knows, but it's something I hope will change in Smash 4. There's two insanely popular villains he could add - K. Rool and Ridley - and plenty more possible choices, such as Ganon, Medusa and Black Shadow. Also, Ganondorf needs a complete rehaul and Wolf could use some unique specials or a new FS at the very least.
 
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Spinosaurus

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Yeah idk if I'd call K.Rool an insanely popular villain considering nobody really knows who he is nowadays, aside from the internet.

Same for Black Shadow.
 

RidleyKraid187

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Well, In terms of Villians, we Usually get anywhere from 2-3 villains per game:

Melee: Bowser, Ganondorf, Mewtwo
Brawl: Wario, Wolf, Meta Knight and Dedede (Debatably)

so, for SSB4, I think it's reasonable to expect : Ridley, King K.Rool
 

JaidynReiman

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Smash Bros. could use more villains, but like with the whole female argument, they still need to be iconic in their own right. The only real iconic villains left are K. Rool and Ridley, and both deserve to make it in. There are only a couple of other somewhat iconic Nintendo villains, and are a better pick than most everyone else except K. Rool and Ridley:

Black Shadow -
Here's someone I can actually see getting somewhere. F-Zero has a ton of games in the series, even if it hasn't had any games recently, and the franchise has only had one character to date. Black Shadow is the perfect addition to expand on the roster. He's not nearly as iconic as K. Rool and Ridley, though.

Medusa -
This one is arguable. She's definitely a far better pick than Hades because she's the main antagonist of the original Kid Icarus game and was a major antagonist for the first major chapter of Uprising, which is also one of (if not the longest), meaning she also got far more screentime than Hades. She's likely to appear again in a future Kid Icarus game and she is Palutena's equal as well, which also makes her a better pick for a playable character than Hades would be. She's iffy, though, due to only appearing in two games, but she is the next-most recurring Kid Icarus character (no, random enemies don't count).

Ganon -
I included him here because he is iconic and appeared more than Ganondorf, but I don't see it because Ganon is Ganondorf. We've already got two characters with two different forms from the Zelda series. It'd be really annoying to have the Zelda series represented by only three characters that have an alternate form each. Ganondorf should just get regular Ganon as his updated Final Smash.


There are some other possibilities, too, but none of them are really all that iconic and aren't very likely until the respective franchises get more games.


Porky Minch -
Only if he replaces Ness or Lucas, but Porky certainly represents Mother better than any one Mother character does as he's the main antagonist in two out of three games. Its arguable if Giygas is even the main antagonist of Mother 2 or if its actually Porky. However, the Mother franchise isn't going to be expanded, the series is over. If Porky were added to replace Ness or Lucas, no problem, but I doubt that'd happen.

Fire Emblem Villain -
Unlikely we'll ever get a villain from this franchise, mainly because the franchise doesn't have any set villain to appear in several games. Its filled with great villains, but there's no "main antagonist" of the series to fit in well. The best pick here would be:

Robin. Technically, Robin is Grima (well, the avatar of Grima) and would count both as a hero and villain.

That's the only way we'd get an FE villain, really.

Fawful -
People would say Bowser Jr., but as a whole, I think the best pick would be Fawful. He'd represent the Mario RPG games, and Fawful is a central recurring character in the Mario and Luigi games, having appeared in three out of four, being the Dragon to Cackletta in Superstar Saga and the Big Bad of Bowser's Inside Story.

Bowser Jr. -
I think Fawful is the better pick, as he'd be more original and Bowser Jr. looks like a baby Bowser. Otherwise Bowser Jr. is the next-most recurring Mario villain.

Vaati -
The only real recurring villain other than Ganondorf in the Zelda series. The likelihood is he won't show up again except in spinoffs like Hyrule Warriors (he's not confirmed yet but I'd be surprised if Vaati isn't in the game) and Vaati is quite the badass.

Ghirahim -
I listed him here because he's a highly requested character. But I don't see him getting anywhere near Smash Bros. Ghirahim appeared in one game, he's not iconic, and he's not likely to appear in another main Zelda game again. Some people even ridiculously suggested that Ghirahim has a higher chance of being added to the game than Ganondorf has of coming back, which is ludicrous.

Kirby Villain -
Other than Dedede, there's no real recurring villains in the series. Meta Knight is a rather ambiguous character, but that's about it. Out of all the characters I've seen Magalor is probably my favorite pick, but like most non-Dedede Kirby villains Magalor is a one-shot.

Alex -
If we get our first Golden Sun rep, Alex can be added in a future game. But we need Isaac first. Alex is the main antagonist of the series to date with questionable motives. Like Isaac he appears in every game. Golden Sun isn't a very iconic franchise although it is fairly popular. He's better than half the picks on this list but as we don't even have a Golden Sun rep, he's incredibly unlikely to happen anytime soon.

Andross -
They'd have to give Andross a physical human form first, so I don't find it all too likely. Wolf is the next best pick for Star Fox anyway. Andross is fairly iconic, but he only appeared in two games and two remakes.

Dark Samus -
Ridley is far more iconic.

Mother Brain -
She's a brain. She's iconic, but still a brain. Maybe if they gave her the body that came up from the ground. And no let's not going anywhere near MB, either.

King Hippo -
Maybe if Punch Out gets more games.


Can't think of anything else right now.
 

Arcadenik

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Villains certainly seem to have gotten the shorter end of the stick in Smash. Strictly speaking, we have only have three: Bowser, Ganondorf and Wolf. Wario is an anti-hero at best and Dedede has pretty much gone from villain to anti-villain to anti-hero to hero. He doesn't do anything evil nowadays, unless he's possessed.

Then there's the fact that Ganondorf is a clone. His Smash incarnation doesn't represent the character well. And we've heard from Sakurai that originally he wasn't planned to be in Melee at all. He got lucky because he had a body type similar to Falcon, and they were looking for suitable clones. Wolf was likely low-priority in Brawl and added at the last minute due to the fact that he doesn't appear in SSE. So really, Bowser is the only villain in Smash that was high-priority and planned to appear from the start. In Smash 4 he's even been changed to be more accurate to his portrayal in the Mario games.

Why is Sakurai neglecting villains? Who knows, but it's something I hope will change in Smash 4. There's two insanely popular villains he could add - K. Rool and Ridley - and plenty more possible choices, such as Ganon, Medusa and Black Shadow. Also, Ganondorf needs a complete rehaul and Wolf could use some unique specials or a new FS at the very least.
I think it has to do with most people preferring characters they actually played as in their games.

Other than Bowser and Wario, villains are usually added because they are last-minute clones (Ganondorf, Wolf) or has Sakurai's bias (Meta Knight, King Dedede).
 

JaidynReiman

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I think it has to do with most people preferring characters they actually played as in their games.

Other than Bowser and Wario, villains are usually added because they are last-minute clones (Ganondorf, Wolf) or has Sakurai's bias (Meta Knight, King Dedede).
Wolf actually isn't really a clone... he's far more unique than Fox. Plus Wolf was intended to be in before Falco anyway (although admittedly, he WAS planned to be a clone the first time).
 

Oracle_Summon

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For villains I say we get:

Bowser
Ridley
King K. Rool
Wolf
Mewtwo
Wario
King Dedede
Ganondorf (just give him his sword/trident moveset)
A possible Mother/Earthbound villain.
 
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ORVO5

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Just wanna say, this thread's awesome. I was looking specifically for a thread like this. And what is up with that? It's just Bowser. Dedede I guess but he looks too adorable. Where's the dark-magic using, netherworld conjuring, villainous-looking evil guys?
 

Headcrab Jackalope

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Ridley, K. Rool, and Mewtwo are the absolutely necessary villains.

The other potential villains are cool but....

I still want Plasm Wraith. Not only is it a Pikmin character that wouldn't immediately labeled a clone, it has the potential to be more unique than any other possible villain. It can morph its shape, create creatures out of protoplasm, use elemental powers, and change size. And it looks to be recurring, since it survived its battle. But unfortunately, it's not very well known, which is why that if it doesn't appear as playable, I'm hoping for it to be boss to raise awareness for it.

CHECK OUT MY SUPPORT THREAD FOR MORE INFO(shameless plug)

Besides, it was already in Melee's intro:
:troll:
 

CheeseBroJoe

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I would personally like to see quite a few more villains in smash. I'd argue that I like playing as villains in smash more than heroes. Why? Well because you can't play as them in their own games. I've always thought bosses like ganon, ridley, Ghirahim, hades, vaati, king k rool, mewtwo (kind of a villain), medusa, zero two, duck hunt dog (though not badass is the most villainous of all), and etc. were always "badass" and arguably cooler than the main character because bad guys more often than not have that coolness factor that heroes lack. Think Darth vader and Luke skywalker. Darth is eons cooler than his descendant IMO. Games like smash give the player a chance to play as their favorite characters that are generally unplayable in the games they originate from. It's the same reason I'm excited to see what characters are going to playable in hyrule warriors. I'll be a tad dissapointed if we get few to no more playable villains in this iteration of smash.
 

Trigger123

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We need more REAL villains. Meta knight, dede, wolf, and wario are not full villains like bowser and ganondorf. K rool has not been in a game in a but is possible. Ridley I think is the best bet he is a pure villain there is no good in him.
As for mewtwo I feel he will be in DLC cause everyone would buy it,
 

JaidynReiman

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We need more REAL villains. Meta knight, dede, wolf, and wario are not full villains like bowser and ganondorf. K rool has not been in a game in a but is possible. Ridley I think is the best bet he is a pure villain there is no good in him.
As for mewtwo I feel he will be in DLC cause everyone would buy it,
Wario is really a Villain Protagonist. Wolf I think can really count as a villain because he's more of a villain than anti-hero. Dedede? Yeah, not recently and Meta Knight can hardly be classed as a villain. King K. Rool and Ridley are true villains, though.
 

Arcadenik

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I don't like the idea of adding villains just because they are villains. I didn't even like the idea of adding females just because they are females either.
 

MYU2

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The only villains I expect to see in ssb4 are:

Bowser
King Dedede
Mewtwo
Ganondorf
Meta Knight
Wolf
Wario
 

Doompatron3000

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Technically, all Pokemon could be considered "villains" and "heroes". It just depends on what side they are on.
 

~Krystal~

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I'm an advocate of more villains in the 4th game, but only if it's done right. Ganondorf is important and everything, yet the way he was executed in Melee left something to be desired. I understand that was done because the roster needed to be buffed up at the 11th hour? Let's run with that, fair enough. Some six years after Melee, he retains the same moveset. That's inexcusable. As long as the bad guy doesn't borrow too heavily from other characters, I think they should be in, time permitting.
 

Trigger123

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Wario is really a Villain Protagonist. Wolf I think can really count as a villain because he's more of a villain than anti-hero. Dedede? Yeah, not recently and Meta Knight can hardly be classed as a villain. King K. Rool and Ridley are true villains, though.
Wolf I consider more on the villain side and he is a true badass. Lol I was on my phone and didn't feel like typing dedede out, I honestly would not mind zant either.
 

kackamee

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I thought it had been confirmed that Wolf is not considered a real "Villain". He is a bounty hunter who does jobs for money, who happened to be hired to kill the Star Fox crew. In one instance (maybe more, idk) he even helped out Star Fox in defeating an enemy. If anything, he is more of a rival/anti-hero.

King DDD and Meta Knight are not villains. They just aren't. I can see how people would think DeDeDe is, but in recent games, he has undoubtedly been more of a hero than anything.

Wario, more recently, has been more anti-hero, but I'd count him as a Villain if I had to.

Mewtwo is iffyish, but according to the new movie, iirc, he is considered a hero.

The only two true villains are Ganondorf and Bowser.
Ridley and K. Rool need to be added to balance out the field.
 

Oz37

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Villains are always fun to play as, but for some reason I'm having a hard time with coming up with bad guys I would like to play as in SSB. As I see it, we only have one or two true "villains", as many of the characters have been on both sides of the line.

Bowser - penultimate bad guy of Mario games, yet occasionally a playable ally and/or anti-hero (and I love him more for his "good guy" roles)
King Dedede - back and forth between friend and foe, but mostly friend (same for Meta Knight, I guess)
Wario - more of a nuisance/rival than a true villain, and the main PC of his own series, yet my distaste for him makes it easy for me to call him "bad"
Mewtwo - again, difficult to call him a real villain when in the games he's pretty much just another befriendable Pokémon
Wolf - another anti-hero/part-time bad guy, but he's another I don't mind identifying as a bad guy

After all this, Ganondorf is the only REAL villain who has never been anything but the bad guy. But here's the rub: who else can we add? K. Rool and Ridley are the obvious/common suggestions, but they're also hotly debated over. Can we think of any other "no brainers"? Or even just general candidates? Let's break it down by series:

Mario - Bowser Jr, Birdo, King Boo, Petey Piranha, Waluigi
Donkey Kong - Lord Fredrik
Zelda - Vaati, Ganon, Zant, Demise, Ghirahim, Yuga
Metroid - Dark Samus
Kid Icarus - Medusa, Hades, Dark Pit, Pyrrhon
Kirby - Magalor

Outside of those, I'm at a loss for "big bad guys" that are feasibly playable, and most of these aren't really too viable. It's unfortunate, but it seems iconic villains aren't as plentiful (or actually iconic) as I initially thought.
 

Doompatron3000

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I thought it had been confirmed that Wolf is not considered a real "Villain". He is a bounty hunter who does jobs for money, who happened to be hired to kill the Star Fox crew. In one instance (maybe more, idk) he even helped out Star Fox in defeating an enemy. If anything, he is more of a rival/anti-hero.

King DDD and Meta Knight are not villains. They just aren't. I can see how people would think DeDeDe is, but in recent games, he has undoubtedly been more of a hero than anything.

Wario, more recently, has been more anti-hero, but I'd count him as a Villain if I had to.

Mewtwo is iffyish, but according to the new movie, iirc, he is considered a hero.

The only two true villains are Ganondorf and Bowser.
Ridley and K. Rool need to be added to balance out the field.
If we're gonna take in recency into consideration, then even Bowser could be considered an anti-hero, helping out Mario in games such as Super Paper Mario. That would leave Ganondorf as the only, true villain character. With that in mind, plus the fact that Ganondorf hasn't been announced yet, it would seem as though anti-heroes may be considered villains in the character selection process, that is if they actually think about that, just as much as they care about the number of women characters.
 

Phaazoid

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I am reminded that my first post on these boards was the Pre-Brawl equivalent of this thread

People there pointed me to the Ridley thread.

IMO Ridley is the most needed villain.

K.Rool trails by just a little bit

From there, Ganon, the beast, would be awesome.

And if you count Mewtwo as a villain, I think he should return
 

majora_787

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Still thinking Ridley/K.Rool/Medusa/Mewtwo should and will probably happen to round out villain representation. I don't think anything past that will really be necessary unless some franchises have sudden jumps in success or revivals or something like that.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I also feel that the Smash games could use some more playable villain characters, but in order to not make this thread sound like a broken record, I'll go for something I haven't seen people talk about here yet:

How about a true Kirby villain newcomer?

Let's look at the villains we've seen so far (spoilered because most of these are final bosses):

King Dedede (Now hero+confirmed 4 smash)
Meta Knight (Now hero+probable for returning)
Dark Matter/Zero (Main villain of Kirby's Dreamland 2-3 & Kirby 64, appeared as a cameo and referenced throughout countless Kirby games)
Nightmare (Main villain of the anime and Kirby Adventure, and has indirectly been referenced a few times past that)
Marx (Final villain of Kirby Superstar (Ultra) and has theoretically been referenced directly once during Return to Dreamland/Adventure Wii)
Drawcia (Main villain of Power Paintbrush/Canvas Curse and has been indirectly referenced a few times past that)
Dark Mind (Zero/Nightmare's mirror world equivalent and the final antagonist of Amazing Mirror)
Dark Nebula (Lord of the underworld (???) and the final antagonist of Mouse Attack/Squeak Squad)
Queen Sectonia (Final antagonist of Triple Deluxe)
Magolor (The guide and eventual final antagonist of Return to Dreamland/Adventure Wii, and the rival in the racing minigames in the Kirby 20-something anniversary game)
Necrodeus (The final boss of Mass Attack)
Yin Yarn (The final boss of Epic Yarn)

My predictions (spoilers again, since we'll discuss the final bosses listed above):
Here are the characters I don't think have a chance of making a playable appearance in Smash:

Nightmare:
Currently irrelevant to the franchise, so unless appearing in a revival or such, I don't think we'll see more of him.

Marx:
Marx only shows himself fighting while flying. At most, we'll see him as an assist trophy or boss in some level. We haven't seen a new Kirby stage yet after all.

Drawcia:
Past her initial game, she hasn't held much relevance as a character within the franchise. Also, she's only fighting while flying.

Dark Mind:
As with Drawcia, no relevance past his initial game and only fights while in flight.

Dark Nebula:
Same as Drawcia and Dark Mind.

Necrodeus:
...See above.

Yin Yarn:
Aaaand same here.

So the characters that could be deemed plausible as playable characters are:

Dark Matter:
His first appearance was his knight form. Mostly an close-quarter fighting style, and a well-represented version of the whole Dark Matter family. His lackluster appearances lately do not make his chances look good however.

Queen Sectonia:
Generally a well-endowed fighter and has a large variety of moves that can be deemed appropriate for smash. However, as with many other Kirby villains, she's probably been axed off for good.

Magolor:
Most appropriate of them all to be honest. Magolor can take a lot of inspiration from his 1st phase of his boss fight and his appearance in the racing game, and his final smash can be related to his "soul" appearance. Also, he's one of the few Kirby villains who actually survived and had a role past his initial appearance.

Those are my initial thoughts on the matter.

Past all that, I mainly support Ridley, Captain Syrup, and Black Shadow as appearances for the next smash. We'll see in any case how it'll turn out.
 

ErenJager

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Ganondorf gets his sword and shadow magic.

Black Shadow gets Ganondorf's old moveset, with some of his own flare added. F-Zero gets a second rep and the smash series gets another villain. People who enjoyed Ganondorf's old moveset still have it available as Black Shadow to some extent.

Mewtwo, strikes back, or returns.

King K. Rool, main antagonist of the Donkey Kong series, be nice to have some more Rareware representation.

Giygas, physically similar to mewtwo in appearance, designed by the same people on the pokemon team, most villains are late editions as clones or semi-clones, he could be a mewtwo semi-clone with some PSI flare from Earthbound. Main antagonist from the mother series would be cool.

Ridley, it's Ridley, that melee intro trailer made me think he was playable. He should have been back then just as much now.
 

shinhed-echi

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I don't like villain characters, plain and simple.

I wish this series was all about main characters, so that way we could get SO many franchises represented in the game.

People ask for SO many villains as if there had to be a perfect 50% balance.
Well I disagree. A villain should be included as often as a WTF character is included.

This is probably going to turn out as one of the most UNpopular opinions out there, but sorry, I don't like villains stripping off the chances of other main characters.
Main characters I played as in their respective games, got to know, respect, like, and possibly identify myself with.
Villains are just there to be wasted, probably in ONE boss fight alone.

Ultimately, if we get 1 villain, I don't have a problem. But if we get like say 3 and up, I'd be really angry.


If I HAD to make a list of my favorite villains though...

1.- Zoda (StarTropics) (Alien wizard that can turn into a reptillian mutant)
2.- Captain Syrup (Warioland) (Pirate queen with comical minions)
3.- Team Rocket (Pokemon) (Preferably Jesse and James, but that's pretty unlikely)
4.- Achi (Sin & Punishment) (Confusing dialogue aside, she kicks ass)
5.- Menardi/Saturos (Golden Sun) (If they come with Saturos' battle theme... major win!)
6.- King Hippo (Punch Out!) (Because Little Mac could use a SUPER HEAVY semi-clone.)
7.- Medusa (Kid Icarus) (What's better than a Godess? A Godess villain!)
8.- Samurai Goroh (F-Zero) (Bounty hunters are cool. Bad alignment bounty hunters are better)
9.- Metal Sonic (Sonic the Hedgehog) (Forcedields, lightsaber fingers, lightning bolts, barriers, and attitude)
10.- Vile (Megaman X) (Badass all around)
For the record, I like villains over sidekicks at least.
 
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