Social Stuff that ends in fair..... A Sheik Social Thread!

[Teczer0]

What how could that even work to my advantage >_>

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Its actually a good counter to puff hitting your shield with retreating aerials. You gain more space than WD OoS and put yourself in a great position inside puff's comfort zone.

 

[Teczer0]

What stops them from just landing where I was and bairing me again?

I would think they have enough time to react.

 

[Oro?!]

Then after the first roll in, the puff waits for it and rests you.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Idk it worked a lot when i played against andale's puff, and hes very adaptive and rest happy.


edit- basically you'd be surprised at how much lag puff and her bair have. Most of the "safeness" comes from the range, as its actually very slow in start-up and landing lag. If you get in close to her, it takes ~13 frames for puff to jump and bair and have a hitbox active. On the ground, she doesn't have any useful "GET AWAY FROM ME" moves like a shine or dsmash so she is somewhat forced to reposition herself in order to get her spacing on.


edit2- i retract that. Puff's bair is really good (see gif)

 

[Teczer0]

I've tried wd oos in and ftilt and got baired before my ftilt came out.

And that's a lot faster than roll up tilt dude.

Besides she doesn't need a get off me move, she just aerials and flies away lol.

 

[Oro?!]

Sheik's forward roll is way slower than her back roll too.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

see ninja edit

 

[Teczer0]

It also assumes she hits the ground after 1 bair Vanz would stay in the air and it's a lot faster that way

 

[Krynxe]

Rolling towards puff is a pretty terrible idea in general tbh.

 

[Cia]

^ Do this if you want to get rested.

Ftilt and Dtilt really is your friend vs. Puff. Especially Dtilt. Use wavedashes to space dtilts just as puff is attempting to land. You can't be CC punished because she'll technically be hit out of the air (if done correctly)

Dtilt > Fair

Dtilt > Uair

Ftilt > Fair

Ftilt > Uair

Needle > Dthrow > Uair

Needle > Fair

Nair Oos

Bair OoS

Back Jump Fairs (spaced correctly)
----

All necessary tools for ****** puff.

 

[Teczer0]

What, you don't post here.

You namesearcher >:[

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

It also assumes she hits the ground after 1 bair Vanz would stay in the air and it's a lot faster that way

Yeah it is. If you predict a bair and roll before it hits your shield, though, it works quite well. In this example sheik rolls on the same frame puff starts the bair (which makes it simple since the 2nd bair starts the same frame the utilt starts), but the utilt will trade even if started 5 frames later. Otherwise, you can still shield the 2nd bair.

edit- excuse the colors, im fiddling with options still

 

[Teczer0]

The scenario isn't rolling before the bair... its rolling after the bair hits the shield.

Rolling before the bair seems, either too impractical or could even not work if puff just decides to go straight instead of back in.

 

[Oro?!]

Puff can probably rest that roll still. Well she can rest you definitely if you immediately go in with the intention of uptilt. You can see puff Jump before she gets hit, and rest would be faster than another backair.

It would be impossible to react to knowing if you should up tilt or not either, so even in the frame perfect scenario things aren't looking good.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Fun fact: puff's bair can be interrupted 1 frame sooner than sheik can complete her entire roll. The one frame can be used to double jump. At that point they are frame equal. Sheik is not in lag for puff to rest.

edit- fun fact 2: the distance of sheik's forward roll is almost exactly the same distance that puff can travel through the air in the same amount of time (in the gifs, puff is holding directly right on nearly every frame)

 

[Cia]

Don't need to namesearch a thread i lurk / subscribed to D:

the fact that my name was dropped just made the timing work

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

The scenario isn't rolling before the bair... its rolling after the bair hits the shield.

Rolling before the bair seems, either too impractical or could even not work if puff just decides to go straight instead of back in.

Actually in hind sight, it was the predictive rolls through the bair not the reactionary rolls after shield stun that were the most successful. The reasons I think it is somewhat viable are 1) the prediction isn't too extreme, retreating bair is one of puff's most abused tactics. 2) You are in practically no danger of being rested. 3) Puff is in TERRIBLE position in the situation. Look at the gif and tell me what puff could do except try to retreat and re-space. Her lack of get-off-me moves is fully abused.


edit- this is the only thing i can really see puff doing in response to the roll. While it looks simple, this is a perfect SHAC bair into rest, and landing it has a 2 frame window as well as requiring puff to land exactly where sheik's roll ends.

edit2- SIDE BY SIDE!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Teczer0]

Don't need to namesearch a thread i lurk / subscribed to D:

the fact that my name was dropped just made the timing work

Hahaha xD

Fair enough =3

 

[Krynxe]

If I see someone rolling at me I usually don't jump away.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Sveet, just drop it and admit your original idea was really ****ing stupid. No amount of posting jpegs will change that.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Really ****ing stupid? Lmao

Its viable.

 

[Twix]

Sveet, just drop it and admit your original idea was really ****ing stupid. No amount of posting jpegs will change that.

Just for the record, those are GIFs, JPEGs can't be animated.

 

[CK Momentum]

All right guys, I play falco, and I'm trying to learn to space/tech chase really well so I've decided to stop playing falco for a while and play sheik. I believe that learning to tech chase in this game is the first step to understanding how someone thinks in melee. More on that later but for now, here is my general game plan while playing sheik. Tell me what you guys think.

1. Out range my opponent with moves like ftilt, bair, spaced fair on shields etc.
2. Get a grab.
3. Tech chase them off the stage using something like dtilt fair or ftilt fair or my personal favorite, downair fair.
4. Once they are offstage, needle and needle cancel ledge hop aerial till they die.

To learn spacing and tech chasing, playing sheik just seems like the fashionable thing to do.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Re-posting this here:

Some sets from HOPE 4

Kirbykaze vs Nakamaru - WB (watch me get raptor boosted a hundred times; M2K later helped me in this MU a lot that day)
Kirbykaze vs KrazyKnux - LQFs (KK vs KK?! He's pretty decent, surprisingly decent spacing for a Fox player)
KirbyKaze vs Vudujin - LSFs (was a bo3, which was kind of lame but time constraint johns)
Kirbykaze vs Unknown522 - LFs (bo5, nothing really spectacular but some good drillshine > up smashes on Sheik)

 

[Salevits]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pElTjD8BR3U&t=25m20s

Shield drop AAAAWW YEAAHH!
ps. Starts with fair, ends with fair lol.

 

[Teczer0]

Me, Oorah and HBK playing atm

www.livestream.com/smwrun

Me, HBK, and Oorah playin a few friendlies.

Join and in stuff.

Player 2 is me
Player 3 is Oorah
Player 4 is HBK

 

[PolishSmash]

New Sheik main here, how do I start learning? What's the most important thing I should learn first? Apex 2 weeks away and I have to learn a new main, crap. And which thread should I start looking into first? A lot of Sheik threads lol

 

[soap]

I'd watch a few amsah/kk vids, and just start playing asap

reading is for noobs

 

[PolishSmash]

Any tech skill I should practice if I'm playing alone such as reverse needles? Whats the most important tech skill for Sheik?

 

[KirbyKaze]

WD, SH, l-cancel, and FF.

 

[PolishSmash]

WD, SH, l-cancel, and FF.

K thanks I'm trying to find a good guide somewhere but the one by Kirbykaze is incomplete. What would be some stages that are Sheik friendly? One's with platforms or no platforms? Do I like Pokemon stadium?

 

[Krynxe]

FoD is probably Sheik's best suteji. Platforms are helpful if they're lower down for the tilts, or no platforms can be good for the combos. Stadium is okay for sheik, but never against fox.

 

[unknown522]

tbh, Sheik's good just about everywhere.

 

[Teczer0]

Yea, pretty much. She's not bad anywhere in particular.

Battlefield is probably her overall best stage tough.

 

[Krynxe]

Really, battlefield?
I thought battlefield was a worse stage for her cause of the platforms but if you say so senpaaiiii

 

[Teczer0]

The platforms on the stage allow for really easy SH fair pokes, and 2nd easiest tech covering.

Another reason its nice is because of the way the platforms are placed, you can run around platforms for needle camping really easily.

And the last is that the stage bends in which is nice for edgeguarding characters like marth or fox/falco.

Not to say you're wrong necessarily, I think Sheik is very strong on FoD as well, I just think Battlefield helps all her good points while not granting anything spectacular to the other characters.

 

[Krynxe]

Are other characters better than sheik on FoD? I can't think of any that are...

 

[gm jack]

Falco is also very good on FoD, and Peach does well there too.

BF is just very standard, but everything about it suits sheik a bit better than everyone else.

 

[DualCats]

Samus typically does well on FoD but that matchup will always be a massive, feculent anus. Yoshi's Story is my best Sheik stage but I don't think it's necessarily the best Sheik stage, objectively. I think Battlefield is generally her best stage. FoD has wider blastzones and I feel as if Battlefield is significantly better for getting gimps and gimps are fairly important to Sheik's game, especially in matchups in which you opponent can kill notably earlier than you.