Stuff About Puff

[KrIsP!]

...any tips for a newcomer learning Jiggs? Mostly what should I do for practicing rests when I'm alone?

 

[dudutsai]

Jiggs is the best character for adaptation imo due to her amazing in-air DI. If you try practicing at home, the only thing you can do is practice l-canceling or something, because almost 100% is reading your opponent and knowing the matchups

again, just my opinion

 

[Tamoo]

Agree with ya there, not much you can do sitting at home on you're own. At the very most, you can get the wavedashes as perfect as possible, timings for wavelanding on the floor and coming up through platforms but not much to help practice rests. Try some jab resets seeing as cpus never tech so u can get sum practice of jab reset to rest timings.

 

[KrIsP!]

Well for now I'm just in training practicing random things on Fox. I see what your saying though, I played well against people but against computers it was just the same thing over and over again, no real practice just watch for the opening you already know is coming.

 

[not gOsu]

Agree with ya there, not much you can do sitting at home on you're own. At the very most, you can get the wavedashes as perfect as possible, timings for wavelanding on the floor and coming up through platforms but not much to help practice rests. Try some jab resets seeing as cpus never tech so u can get sum practice of jab reset to rest timings.

speaking of jab resets, what are the best ways to set up jab resets

the only way i can think of is...
dash attack spacies ~30%
or utilt jab reset..but usually u can just utilt rest
or usmash jab reset

are there more options?
honestly i have trouble setting up any of these...

and if a spacie is at 30% im more inclined to go for uthrow ->rest or uthrow -> combo in general

 

[slacker!]

most of my jab resets occur from my autocanceled nairs.

if i approach and successfully connect a few nairs before they are at a high enough percent to get knocked down from it (80%~ on sheik?), the tech is usually missed because they don't expect it. fun against sheiks who just cc dsmash.

 

[idea]

most of my jab resets occur from my autocanceled nairs.

yeah. nairs. the weak part.

 

[Tamoo]

hungrybox was getting loads of pound to jab resets at genesis

 

[RestInPeace]

A lot of the time, when I spam spaced Bairs by doing a full jump Bair and another one on the way down, I miss an opportunity for a jab reset rest. A lot of the time, when I hit them with the first one, they'll miss the tech, but I often try to continue hitting them with more Bairs. I believe I've seen this done before. I guess its unreliable since you have to rely on them missing the tech, and risk missing a combo.

 

[Tamoo]

That is so true, happens to me too much, might have to start mixing that one up

 

[RestInPeace]

That's what I always tell myself after I play smash for a couple of hours with friends. Then the next time I play them, I forget. lol.

 

[not gOsu]

mango changed his avatar to tux the penguin!
yay mango! yay linux!

ok...back on topic
wait i got nothing to say.

well actually,
how do you guys deal with sheiks/marths
any tips? approaches? how to space properly?
easy rest setups?

for some reason, its really hard for me to get a u-tilt
i just dont know when to incorporate it..seems like thres always better options..there probably is.

 

[KrIsP!]

mango changed his avatar to tux the penguin!
yay mango! yay linux!

ok...back on topic
wait i got nothing to say.

well actually,
how do you guys deal with sheiks/marths
any tips? approaches? how to space properly?
easy rest setups?

for some reason, its really hard for me to get a u-tilt
i just dont know when to incorporate it..seems like thres always better options..there probably is.

Yeah I suck with u-tilt rest in actual matches, or even just u-tilting someone in an actual match without juggling around with uair first.

As for marth just stay away and bair at his missed fair? That's what I would do. Shiek's just too good. In the end just space well until you set up a combo. Kinda simple isn't it?

But that's coming from me who's not as experienced as the rest of the people in this thread >.> people may have some nice tricks to help along.

 

[GSUB]

mango changed his avatar to tux the penguin!
yay mango! yay linux!

ok...back on topic
wait i got nothing to say.

well actually,
how do you guys deal with sheiks/marths
any tips? approaches? how to space properly?
easy rest setups?

for some reason, its really hard for me to get a u-tilt
i just dont know when to incorporate it..seems like thres always better options..there probably is.

Marth:
Run up and shield - Punish fsmash (or whatever move they throw out) with fair OoS or rest OoS (situational) or nair Oos to utilt to rest (replace utilt with whatever), or nair OoS to usmash (works wonders for me, can lead to a platform techchase to rest) or shield grab (When I get a grab, I like to dthrow, and sometimes they will DI towards a platform and tech it, and you can then read the tech, and rest.) Oh yeah, don't forget nair OoS to fsmash, this ***** marth.

Run up and crouch cancel - This is sooo good if they grab a lot or dash attack a lot, if they do either, rest their *****. OMG, I forget to mention, if they like to throw nairs at you, and you're at a low percent, CC that nair and REST! They'll start questioning every move they use after that...

Space bair - I like to space backairs but not use the full length of the backair, this gives them a false sense of confidence and makes them think I can't reach them, when appropriate, I will jump out as far as I can and bair em the face with the longest backair ever, leaving them like, "wtf..." From the backair, you can land and ftilt, grab, dashattack, bair again, nair to w/e.

Space nairs - If you space it right, your nair might not hit, but you can punish whatever they've done as a reaction to your nair. If nair does connect, once again you may usmash, utilt, grab, fsmash, ftilt, dash attack, pound, nair to rest is amazing also.

Marth in general - I like to play kinda campy at first, this gets them really flustered and upset, and they start making dumb mistakes, then I will capitalize on those mistakes, or then go to do any of the above. If you're ahead in stocks and percents, don't be afraid to make him come to you, he's not fox, he can't laser camp you. And if the marth likes to shffl nairs and side-b or jab afterwards, kinda like a shieldpressure, it helps to wavedash OoS into shield to get closer to them, then do whatever. If you get a marth off the stage, go and fair him away, just watch out for his side-b and sometimes he'll fair back. I don't know why, but I'm the only one who will lightshield edge guard a marth with puff... I don't know why no one else uses it. It works. It forces them to recover on stage, which is an easy rest, or they just fall and die. Win Win if you ask me.



Sheik:
CAMP: Okay, it's sheik, she can't just shffl nairs and dairs and bairs at you like fox and falco can, so then you ask, "how does she approach?" That's the thing, SHE CAN'T =D To makeup for this, she will try and needle camp you, I know it's annoying and frustrating and it makes you just wanna run up to her and hit her with something BUT DON'T!!! Just wait it out and find a way around every needle she sends at you. You MUST DO THIS to show her it will NOT work. Don't give up or show any weakness, keep confident about letting her know that needles will not affect you. After this, she will have to start approaching, she WILL do one of the following:

Dash attack - If you're at a low percent, CC and rest, if at a higher percent, shield, then rest OoS, if she's too far way shield grab or do any other move OoS (ex. uair OoS to rest)

Grab - Sheiks grab is sooo good, it has pretty good range because she dashgrabs. But that's okay, if she grabs and you know she will, crouch under her and rest your heart away when she misses. Maybe you shielded instead because you saw a dash attack coming but at the last second you realize she's going to grab! Spot-dodge and REST! It works. Now let's say you got grabbed??? Okay, no matter what she will downthrow you and YOU WILL GET HIT. DO NOT DI BEHIND HER!!! You will just get uaired and probably die a lot earlier than you needed too, sometimes they'll F up and backair though, which is good. You want to DI slightly in front of her, so that she can't uair you, and not too far away that's it's helping her fair, just enough for her fair to hit you, right when you get hit, DI accordingly (preferably Up and then towards the stage). This f-air is the lesser of her other evils, so take it.

Spamming random aerials at you, hoping they hit - Out-space her with your backair. Nair ***** sheik, it leads to rests and utilt's to rest.

Sheik in general - If you grab her, throw her off the stage, try and hit her once, and then force her to recover ON TO THE STAGE. Punish with rest. Easy. If you can't throw her off, d-throw her and hopefully get off a platform techchase to rest. Play campy with bairs. Nair to grab also *****. At low percent (on the sheik) try nair to grab -> f-throw -> nair to grab -> whatever. It's the best <3


For Marth AND Sheik:
Fake A Mistake!!! - Since these two like to grab, A LOT, why not capitalize on that? Any time you know what someone is going to do, there is always ALWAYS a way to punish it. What you do is, put yourself into a situation where they would normally grab you.
Ex. would be: You shffl a fair and l-cancel wrong, they would try and grab you OR you roll OR any other way you would get grabbed. So, what you want to do is put yourself in that situation, but space it properly so that you have just BARELY enough time Crouch before they can grab you, and they will try and grab. Simply Crouch and rest. They'll have no idea that YOU actually forced them to try and grab you... They'll just think they were punishing your mistake. Little do they know, you intended on that very outcome!

Hope this helped :]

 

[RestInPeace]

Wow. Did you type all that up? If you did, you should add the little baiting trick where you SH Nair or FJ Nair and have it autocancel'd into a crouch. If you poke their shield with this, they'll try to shieldgrab you, but you're already crouching. REST.

 

[hungrybox]

roll -> crouch :o

 

[LuCKy]

lemme come back to ur house hbox lol

 

[not gOsu]

Marth:
Run up and shield - Punish fsmash (or whatever move they throw out) with fair OoS or rest OoS (situational) or nair Oos to utilt to rest (replace utilt with whatever), or nair OoS to usmash (works wonders for me, can lead to a platform techchase to rest) or shield grab (When I get a grab, I like to dthrow, and sometimes they will DI towards a platform and tech it, and you can then read the tech, and rest.) Oh yeah, don't forget nair OoS to fsmash, this ***** marth.

Run up and crouch cancel - This is sooo good if they grab a lot or dash attack a lot, if they do either, rest their *****. OMG, I forget to mention, if they like to throw nairs at you, and you're at a low percent, CC that nair and REST! They'll start questioning every move they use after that...

Space bair - I like to space backairs but not use the full length of the backair, this gives them a false sense of confidence and makes them think I can't reach them, when appropriate, I will jump out as far as I can and bair em the face with the longest backair ever, leaving them like, "wtf..." From the backair, you can land and ftilt, grab, dashattack, bair again, nair to w/e.

Space nairs - If you space it right, your nair might not hit, but you can punish whatever they've done as a reaction to your nair. If nair does connect, once again you may usmash, utilt, grab, fsmash, ftilt, dash attack, pound, nair to rest is amazing also.

Marth in general - I like to play kinda campy at first, this gets them really flustered and upset, and they start making dumb mistakes, then I will capitalize on those mistakes, or then go to do any of the above. If you're ahead in stocks and percents, don't be afraid to make him come to you, he's not fox, he can't laser camp you. And if the marth likes to shffl nairs and side-b or jab afterwards, kinda like a shieldpressure, it helps to wavedash OoS into shield to get closer to them, then do whatever. If you get a marth off the stage, go and fair him away, just watch out for his side-b and sometimes he'll fair back. I don't know why, but I'm the only one who will lightshield edge guard a marth with puff... I don't know why no one else uses it. It works. It forces them to recover on stage, which is an easy rest, or they just fall and die. Win Win if you ask me.



Sheik:
CAMP: Okay, it's sheik, she can't just shffl nairs and dairs and bairs at you like fox and falco can, so then you ask, "how does she approach?" That's the thing, SHE CAN'T =D To makeup for this, she will try and needle camp you, I know it's annoying and frustrating and it makes you just wanna run up to her and hit her with something BUT DON'T!!! Just wait it out and find a way around every needle she sends at you. You MUST DO THIS to show her it will NOT work. Don't give up or show any weakness, keep confident about letting her know that needles will not affect you. After this, she will have to start approaching, she WILL do one of the following:

Dash attack - If you're at a low percent, CC and rest, if at a higher percent, shield, then rest OoS, if she's too far way shield grab or do any other move OoS (ex. uair OoS to rest)

Grab - Sheiks grab is sooo good, it has pretty good range because she dashgrabs. But that's okay, if she grabs and you know she will, crouch under her and rest your heart away when she misses. Maybe you shielded instead because you saw a dash attack coming but at the last second you realize she's going to grab! Spot-dodge and REST! It works. Now let's say you got grabbed??? Okay, no matter what she will downthrow you and YOU WILL GET HIT. DO NOT DI BEHIND HER!!! You will just get uaired and probably die a lot earlier than you needed too, sometimes they'll F up and backair though, which is good. You want to DI slightly in front of her, so that she can't uair you, and not too far away that's it's helping her fair, just enough for her fair to hit you, right when you get hit, DI accordingly (preferably Up and then towards the stage). This f-air is the lesser of her other evils, so take it.

Spamming random aerials at you, hoping they hit - Out-space her with your backair. Nair ***** sheik, it leads to rests and utilt's to rest.

Sheik in general - If you grab her, throw her off the stage, try and hit her once, and then force her to recover ON TO THE STAGE. Punish with rest. Easy. If you can't throw her off, d-throw her and hopefully get off a platform techchase to rest. Play campy with bairs. Nair to grab also *****. At low percent (on the sheik) try nair to grab -> f-throw -> nair to grab -> whatever. It's the best <3


For Marth AND Sheik:
Fake A Mistake!!! - Since these two like to grab, A LOT, why not capitalize on that? Any time you know what someone is going to do, there is always ALWAYS a way to punish it. What you do is, put yourself into a situation where they would normally grab you.
Ex. would be: You shffl a fair and l-cancel wrong, they would try and grab you OR you roll OR any other way you would get grabbed. So, what you want to do is put yourself in that situation, but space it properly so that you have just BARELY enough time Crouch before they can grab you, and they will try and grab. Simply Crouch and rest. They'll have no idea that YOU actually forced them to try and grab you... They'll just think they were punishing your mistake. Little do they know, you intended on that very outcome!

Hope this helped :]

wow. extremely informative.
thanks! : ]

 

[RestInPeace]

Now if only we had a response like that for every question... :D

 

[GSUB]

Yes... I typed all that up, at that moment. Haha.

And yes, the autocanceld nair to crouch works RestInPeace, as does roll to crouch HungryBox.
That would be one of the "OR any other way you would get grabbed." But, like I said, spaced properly.


I'll start replying like this to questions if you want, ahah.

 

[RestInPeace]

Yes. I want.

If you keep replying like that, you can accumulate your own mini-guides into an actual thread with matchup guides. An updated one. Of course, other people can give information that will go on there too.

Do it like Tipman is over at the Ganon boards :D.

 

[GSUB]

Okayyy.
haha, I'll do my best.


:]

 

[idea]

Yeah I suck with u-tilt rest in actual matches, or even just u-tilting someone in an actual match without juggling around with uair first.

As for marth just stay away and bair at his missed fair? That's what I would do. Shiek's just too good. In the end just space well until you set up a combo. Kinda simple isn't it?

But that's coming from me who's not as experienced as the rest of the people in this thread >.> people may have some nice tricks to help along.

hi =) unless you're still in my basement i didn't get to play you =(

i'm pretty sure gsub covered it (didn't read all that =P) so i'll try and say more general things.

i seem to usually get uptilts by landing an aerial on someone's shield and uptilting as they let go of it, or by trading it with aerials and still having enough time to rest. this works on falco sometimes, on falcon more often and...sort of on sheik. those are the ones i tend to get those uptilts on. fox is really fast so i don't like to stay on the ground vs. him.

vs. marth...marth is kind of better at camping than jiggs =P it seems to work better to put pressure on him. if you're close to him his great range is useless. and fthrow fsmash doesn't actually work as well as it seems. and you can crouch under his grab...even the one that can actually get you often misses. fsmash under his aerials.

sheik is similar to marth but harder for me. but you're supposed to edgeguard well, crouch a lot, and overall be patient, and i suck at 2 of those things. fsmash under her aerials too. people hate that. oh, and she takes a lot of stun from up-hitting moves, more than you'd think...marth too actually.

i hope none of this is repeated, but if it is, i guess that makes it more trustworthy.

roll -> crouch :o

nice avatar.

 

[hungrybox]

people should give advice

only if they know it is correct

 

[-ACE-]

people should give advice

only if they know it is correct

there should be a thread

with this as the first post

stickied

 

[idea]

people should give advice

only if they know it is correct

what was wrong?

 

[GSUB]

what was wrong?

 

[BlueFoxXT]

Brinstar + Jigglypuff

What do I do? I dont really have an understanding of why it's that good for Puff, and I don't really have a strategy there.

- BlueFoxXT

 

[KrIsP!]

Brinstar + Jigglypuff

What do I do? I dont really have an understanding of why it's that good for Puff, and I don't really have a strategy there.

- BlueFoxXT

well for starters she can't be spiked most of the time, people have to stay on the platforms when the lava rises and the platforms are perfect for her to combo and rest. Also I think she can live longer there. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[dudutsai]

I don't think she can live longer there, the ceiling is smaller than some neutrals, but as you said, the lava helps a lot, and since the middle is weird, it sometimes limit characters that have to stay on the ground.

 

[KrIsP!]

I don't think she can live longer there, the ceiling is smaller than some neutrals, but as you said, the lava helps a lot, and since the middle is weird, it sometimes limit characters that have to stay on the ground.

Yeah the ceiling is a bit smaller but isn't it also wider?

 

[BlueFoxXT]

So how should I play on Brinstar? What exactly about the platforms make them good for me?

I just need details or a better idea about it, so I can learn to strategize there

 

[dudutsai]

Yes I do believe it is wider. I kinda suck on Brinstar so I don't have any personal advice for you. I do remember seeing a lot of resting from the lava though.

 

[HawaiianJigglyPuff]

Mango, I have a question. Do you smash DI upward when you are getting hit by a fox uair or do you smash DI to the left or right depending on which way the fox is facing?

And do you have to smash multiple times in the hitlag or is once just good enough?
I can never tell if I'm doing it when I play or if I get lucky and my friend doesn't have the uair hit my jiggs completely. Thanks!

 

[KrIsP!]

So how should I play on Brinstar? What exactly about the platforms make them good for me?

I just need details or a better idea about it, so I can learn to strategize there

It's good for just juggling them around with bairs and fairs when the lavas up. Hit them into the lava then rest them on their way down. I don't really know though, it's a good place but I'd say personally, Dreamland's better.

 

[idea]

Mango, I have a question. Do you smash DI upward when you are getting hit by a fox uair or do you smash DI to the left or right depending on which way the fox is facing?

And do you have to smash multiple times in the hitlag or is once just good enough?
I can never tell if I'm doing it when I play or if I get lucky and my friend doesn't have the uair hit my jiggs completely. Thanks!

DI one way (left or right), smash DI the other

occasionally i jump by accident and that gets me out of it, so i'm not sure if that works sometimes too...but the above way definitely does.

 

[RestInPeace]

If you jump before the hit, it works, I think. It works with me. It helps my timing with the SDI to try to jump out of it and smash the analog stick.

I get it about 50% of the time (actually once I get it once, its pretty easy to keep getting it. Its one of those things where once you get the timing down, you're good), all I do is press jump and one direction. I don't know which way I DI it, but probably not the way Fox was facing when he threw me, then SDI the other way. But the direction I SDI depends on which part of me the Fox is hitting. Its gay when I SDI properly, and you can see it, but I don't SDI out of it, but into it. So gay >> So I try to consciously choose the direction that is farther from the Fox.

lol wow I just realized that's almost always going to be DI back, then SDI forward. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[CluelessBTD]

Mango, I have a question. Do you smash DI upward when you are getting hit by a fox uair or do you smash DI to the left or right depending on which way the fox is facing?

And do you have to smash multiple times in the hitlag or is once just good enough?
I can never tell if I'm doing it when I play or if I get lucky and my friend doesn't have the uair hit my jiggs completely. Thanks!

I remember seeing Mango SDI upwards at Pound 3. The more inputs you get the better.

 

[idea]

read kirbykaze's upthrow-upair SDI guide =P you DI one way, then SDI the other way because this means you are SDIing on the weak hit of upair, moving you away from the strong hit. if you SDI in the same direction, you're pushing yourself into the strong part.

if fox upthrows you then runs right, the weak hit will be on his leftmost leg. usually the move uses the weak hit to push you into the strong hit (other leg)...so SDIing in the same direction is just helping it.

and correct me if i'm wrong, hungrybox =P

 

[Strong Badam]

I remember seeing Mango SDI upwards at Pound 3. The more inputs you get the better.

No, that was Mango having too high of a % for uthrow upair to combo.