Street Fighter IV *Super, AE and Ver.2012*

[Dogysamich]

I like how Gen is all the way at the bottom <3

Sigh. Jibbo and Yeb would beg to differ.

He's solid mid tier at least.

Blanka in top 5?

Akuma under Blanka?

Allow me to LOL profusely.

Ok, you can think of a few good Gens (and yes, they're good Gens), how many good *anything above Gens* can you think of? You also have to throw in the fact that he is a console character, so he's going to be lower by default (because he doesnt get as-equal playtime as arcade characters.)

*Keeping in mind that that specific tierlist was done in Japan, so the console characters HAVE to be lower cause they dont even play Console period*

Blanka top 5? I had a hard time seeing that myself, but I could believe it seeing how dumb easy he can be, and how much he can do. And i mean, it's not like he has bad matchups or anything, so its pretty understandable for him to be there.

Now, Akuma under Blanka. I'm pretty sure that goes back into the console thing. America is over here screaming "let people figure out how to use Akuma, Ryu's gunna be done when that happens", but again, Japan is over there like "Akuma's in the game? Lol wut?" Let more people get used to/find more dumb demon setups (PLINKY DEMON HO!), and he'll boost right up there. I highly doubt his low hp will hold him down too far.

Cammy doesnt deserve to be that low on the list....

*Bias* if it aint sanford, it's done*unbias*

If cammy's cannon strike was actually an overhead, she'd be awesome by default. It's not, she's got nothing but a "im going to keep swinging till I get bored and grab you" gimmick.

Spiral arrow and hooli combo arent too hot because they get shut down by, lol, spacing well.

Beyond that, unless I'm mistaken, she doesnt have too many frame traps beyond that. She actually does have like, 2 GOOD setups (I do remember looking into Cammy, cause I thought cannon strike was an overhead). They're like, mad good frame traps, but beyond that she's mostly going around looking for mistakes.

That's grounds for getting dropped down ANY tierlist.

She still isnt bad by any stretch of the imagination. Although she's really got nothing but gimmicks, THEY'RE SOME DUMB GOOD GIMMICKS. I mean, if you can instant cannon spike at will? DEAR GOD. And I dont even mean EX (because instant EX is sooooooo much easier). And meaty spiral arrow? People just ask for the business if they let that happen.

I'm pretty sure Ken is already in this game.

Knowing im making up some BS, i'll assume he's talking about "I dont wanna see that easy-mac 3rd Strike Ken".

-smile and shrug-

 

[CodeBlack]

From my experience, plus what I've heard most of the time, the tier list for SFIV isn't really all that drastic - unlike, say, Melee, pretty much all the characters are still relatively balanced, or at least none of them are unusable with the tier list being largely a formality.

That said, I know there are... some overpowered characters...

I'm mostly a Sagat player - I have been since Capcom vs SNK 2 - and I kind of wish they would nerf him in SSF4, just so I could use him without people complaining: "OMG YOU ONLY WON BECUZ HE'S HI TEIR." I barely ever use him just so I can feel like I'm giving an even fight.

Of course, I'm not just a Sagat player... (Honda, Dan, Fei Long, Sagat... that's me right there) If they put Dudley in there I'm probably going to start maining him as well.

 

[epic of DE]

Knowing im making up some BS, i'll assume he's talking about "I dont wanna see that easy-mac 3rd Strike Ken".

-smile and shrug-

I'm glad someone caught the reference to 3rd strike Ken. Though in all reality I wouldn't be against Ken getting tweaked in a few areas since even though he's a shoto he still seems lacking...of course maybe thats when I look at the large number of skilled Ryu's I've watched that makes me wonder ken can't have some more tournie use.

As for real third strike hopefuls, I would like to see Dudley since he was very enjoyable to watch (with a taunt that was actually useful) and even Makoto could be interesting but they would be reworked since linking to supers is at times limited or due to damage scaling isn't worth the bar...I just want Elena or Q to be honest but they seem pretty low on the totem pole huh?

 

[Brightside6382]

(sigh) to bad he sucks

 

[smashplayer16]

You know that picture reminds me that they should add some wrestlers from "Saturday Night Slam Masters". Its not like capcom hasn't added characters from other series like they added Cody and Guy in Street Fighter Alpha.

 

[CodeBlack]

(sigh) to bad he sucks

Look on the bright side, he'll probably gets some major improvements in Super Street Fighter 4.

You know that picture reminds me that they should add some wrestlers from "Saturday Night Slam Masters". Its not like capcom hasn't added characters from other series like they added Cody and Guy in Street Fighter Alpha.

Some people on another forum I go to were arguing about Mike Haggar, saying that in order for him to fit he'd have to drastically altered so he's not a clone of Zangief or T. Hawk, at which point it would probably make more sense just to make a whole new character instead of making an existing character completely different.

I've never played any of the Saturday Night Slam Masters games, so even though I know a little bit about Haggar, I don't know about any of the other fighters or how they'd fit...

 

[smashplayer16]

If they don't put in any of the fighter from "Saturday Night Slam Master" which I doubt they will do anyway, they should give Scorp's costume design to El Fuerte as an Alternate.


Top Left http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4w979o06FI#t=1m35s

 

[ZMan]

man i wanted to second fuerte when the game came out because he yells "NO BUENO" when he dies. i really hope he stops sucking in ssf4.

and speaking of sucking i don't think alex will be in as he's too busy sucking all the **** in tvc to be in ssf4. im sticking with ibuki, dudley, and makoto being in ssf4.

 

[Dogysamich]

(My bad people, when I find a topic I like I tend to start talking too much. >.> )

From my experience, plus what I've heard most of the time, the tier list for SFIV isn't really all that drastic - unlike, say, Melee, pretty much all the characters are still relatively balanced, or at least none of them are unusable with the tier list being largely a formality.

That's very true about SF4. I mean sure, you can look here and see us rag on characters left and right, you can go to other places and see things, but yeah, the game is somewhat balanced.

Although you have to go through hell-and-high-water, Dan beating Sagat is not a completely unfeasible concept. It's doable, and has been done enough already.

I'm mostly a Sagat player - I have been since Capcom vs SNK 2 - and I kind of wish they would nerf him in SSF4, just so I could use him without people complaining: "OMG YOU ONLY WON BECUZ HE'S HI TEIR." I barely ever use him just so I can feel like I'm giving an even fight.

Ya know, just because you mention this I'll say this; if they made sagat like he is in CvS2, he'd be fine for the most part (especially since he wouldnt have roll cancelling.). CvS2 Sagat was good, real good, but he got counterpoked to all ends of the earth and back (CvS2 Sagat vs Chun is ****ing comical)

But as for people complaining, eh, that's how all games are. You've probably gotten used to it, but just drown it out, it's scrub talk. I mean, you look at the top play of most games, and you dont really see the "scrub characters" unless said players really are amazing (i.e. Mago's Sagat in Japan)

I'm not sitting here and defending sagat, he could afford to have some things toned down, but oh trust me, there have been/are muuuuuuuch worse characters in other games.

I'm glad someone caught the reference to 3rd strike Ken. Though in all reality I wouldn't be against Ken getting tweaked in a few areas since even though he's a shoto he still seems lacking...of course maybe thats when I look at the large number of skilled Ryu's I've watched that makes me wonder ken can't have some more tournie use.

Ken can and does get some tourney use (Look at Yipes, better known in SF4 as IFC yipes. Yes, he's "CURLEH MUSTACHE" yipes), but yes, it's nowhere near as much as ryu.

Reason why Ryu works so well is just because when he lands SRK, he's got alot of easy, heavy hitting followups that are viable. SRK -> Ultra, SRK -> EX Hado, **** is always a BIG thread. Ken can do just as much damage as ryu's SRK -> FADC -> Ultra, but it costs like, ALL meter and is super inpractical.

As for tweaking him, and mentioning 3s Ken, I had a funny idea that would would wind up making Ken better. Real easy fix.

Give him the SFIII dash speed (or the sf4 equivalent to it), along with some kind of setup from his forward throw. Gives him more damage, lets him move in and out of zones better (which gives him a nastier mixup than he already has), and just gives him more chances to do stuff he cant now because he's, for the most part, a handicapped ryu.

... they also could give him his roll back, but I dont know where that would go. XD

As for real third strike hopefuls, I would like to see Dudley since he was very enjoyable to watch (with a taunt that was actually useful) and even Makoto could be interesting but they would be reworked since linking to supers is at times limited or due to damage scaling isn't worth the bar...I just want Elena or Q to be honest but they seem pretty low on the totem pole huh?

Dudley
Now, knowing good and well how much harder it would be to do this in sf4, because of easy reversals, easy inputs, etc etc, whenever somebody mentions Makoto in sf4 I cringe a lil bit

-el fuerte pic-
(sigh) to bad he sucks

Dont get me wrong, I rag on El fuerte daily, but I honestly dont think he's like, super bad or anything. He just has to put in overtime to work because you have to make super good reads on people.

Always have to be atleast 2 steps ahead of people, but it's doable (and being able to do the infinite helps a crapton).

But i mean, he does have stuff going for him, and he can actually shut down options at times to (with ultra, for example), he just doesnt have SRK -> WIN.

 

[Maniclysane]

Cammy would be higher if she was harder to beat than crouch+block the whole time.

 

[CodeBlack]

Dudley

It's funny, every time I think about Dudley I think about the whole Dudley vs Balrog matchup. I think about how Shortjump + Cross Counter would be the perfect way to trick out those Balrog players who just crouch in the middle of the stage and instantly counterattack when you approach. Trick 'em into thinking you're attacking - CROSS COUNTER! As much as I dislike having to play "stop fighting and guess how to get past my turtlage," this would be satisfying as hell to watch.

 

[Exia 00]

I don't care what anybody says.

I WANT YUN.

 

[Dy17]

I don't care what anybody says.

I WANT YUN.

h e l l yes im with you on that one. the put in 5 characters with the same moves rose balrog and rufus. dan rose balrog and rufus are lame. i bought this and was super disappointed. i want guy too.

 

[OneWingSephiroth]

Storyline wise, it will make absolutely no sense with characters like Yun, Makoto, Ibuki, etc, etc...because they will be like 9-12 years old during Street Fighter IV's events. It wouldn't work, as much as people would like to see them in here due to this very reason, however other characters like Guy would definitely be able to make the cut.

For me personally, Guy was one character that I've hoped for to get into the SFIV series.

My thing is...too much work, too much traveling ='s little to no time playing fighting games...this isn't like back in the 90's and early 2000's where I had tons of free time to really play and break these games down. However, Juri is looking sexxi as ever from a gameplay standpoint, I love the way she moves and attacks, it just looks absolutely gorgeous. It's really got me jumping to try her out.

It's like how Jeff and I were talking the other week ago at srk.com..."You see the mistake...however your execution isn't like the younger version of yourself...so you either miss time it, or can't execute it on call." You lose that edge when you no longer have the commitment, oh well, all in good fun though eh?

Super Street Fighter IV...here's to hoping Guy will make the cut oneday

 

[metaXzero]

Yun (and Yang) is already in Chun Li's opening in SFIV.

In all trueness, all Capcom would have to do if is some retcons to stories. I wouldn't be surprised if they did so already. Ibuki and Makoto are probably the most wanted characters not named Dudley.

 

[CodeBlack]

Well... Ibuki would take a lot of retcon because her entire reason for fighting in the tournament started in SFIII. You could swing Makoto, Yun and Yang with a little bit of retcon, but pretty much everyone else in SFIII would work without much retcon necessary.

Despite the fact that it will never, ever, happen due to copyrights, I'll be rooting for Skullomania to make the game until the day the game comes out, and even after that. Super Skullo Dream (the one with the tea party frame) on Gouken? Priceless.

Also, why not bring back some old throwbacks? There are still a lot of characters from Street Fighter 1 that haven't returned for later games, aren't there? At least four, five if you don't think of Mike as being the same character as Balrog.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Well... Ibuki would take a lot of retcon because her entire reason for fighting in the tournament started in SFIII. You could swing Makoto, Yun and Yang with a little bit of retcon, but pretty much everyone else in SFIII would work without much retcon necessary.

Despite the fact that it will never, ever, happen due to copyrights, I'll be rooting for Skullomania to make the game until the day the game comes out, and even after that. Super Skullo Dream (the one with the tea party frame) on Gouken? Priceless.

Also, why not bring back some old throwbacks? There are still a lot of characters from Street Fighter 1 that haven't returned for later games, aren't there? At least four, five if you don't think of Mike as being the same character as Balrog.

Seeing ol' Skullo might not be too much of a stretch, since Arika doesn't do anything with their SFEX chars these days. Maybe we'll see him again someday, so who knows?

As for returning SF1 chars, I think that Lee and Retsu should come back, at least. It helps that they were featured as cards in the SNK Vs. Capcom: Card Fighters Clash series (not useful cards, but they made an appearance nontheless).

 

[Cam3ron]

As for returning SF1 chars, I think that Lee and Retsu should come back, at least. It helps that they were featured as cards in the SNK Vs. Capcom: Card Fighters Clash series (not useful cards, but they made an appearance nontheless).

Seeing Retsu would be cool. Isn't lee related to yun and yang?

 

[Omni]

Me and Chillindude would wreck everyone here.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Isn't lee related to yun and yang?

I believe so. He's their uncle.

 

[CodeBlack]

I believe so. He's their uncle.

Oh yeah... he dies by the time of SFIII, right?

 

[CRASHiC]

So what are the chances of Juri being high tier based off what we have seen so far?

 

[kr3wman]

I don't know.

The chances of pointless speculation of a totally new character in an unreleased game is 100% tho.

 

[MisterDrBob]

I just saw the announcement on Wikipedia. Pretty cool! Like how they're going off of what they did with II (hopefully not as many though).
Glad to see T. Hawk and Dee Jay. Juri looks interesting too. My question is what are they fighting for? Dee Jay's probably looking to sell records, but what could be befalling T. Hawk's people?

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

I just saw the announcement on Wikipedia. Pretty cool! Like how they're going off of what they did with II (hopefully not as many though).
Glad to see T. Hawk and Dee Jay. Juri looks interesting too. My question is what are they fighting for? Dee Jay's probably looking to sell records, but what could be befalling T. Hawk's people?

Now that T. Hawk has claimed his land and sister back from Shadaloo, now S.I.N. is taking the land for their own ambiguous reasons. (Please Capcom, don't be that lame)

 

[CodeBlack]

I just saw the announcement on Wikipedia. Pretty cool! Like how they're going off of what they did with II (hopefully not as many though).
Glad to see T. Hawk and Dee Jay. Juri looks interesting too. My question is what are they fighting for? Dee Jay's probably looking to sell records, but what could be befalling T. Hawk's people?

Dee Jay might have a plot related reason. If I remember what I read about Alpha's storyline, he and Fei Long (or is that him and Blanka... no wait, that's Dan) are supposed to be good friends, and if Fei is investigating Shadoloo's tampering with the media, he might have teamed up with Dee Jay to do it.

It's way past time Dee Jay had some plot significance, I'm pretty sure he's the only character from SFII who's never had any.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

Thought some of you may find this interesting.

Abel's original design.

 

[CodeBlack]

Thought some of you may find this interesting.

Abel's original design.

That's nothin'

Rufus' original design.

Original designs are often completely different than the finished character. Though I kind of wish this design had made it in, even as another character entirely. Street Fighter needs more black characters.

 

[metaXzero]

Thought some of you may find this interesting.

Abel's original design.

Due to several varying translations, this Abel was either intended to be a Bridgette, or a strong girl who'd be mistaken as a small, weak girl. I personally prefer the latter.

Either way, it knew judo.

 

[Gates]

Reminds me of Bridget.

Reminds me of Violent Ken.

 

[MisterDrBob]

Wow. Where'd you find these?
On the note of original designs, I remember hearing somewhere that Vega was originally supposed to wear a suit of armor. Anyone know if that has any truth to it?

 

[CodeBlack]

Wow. Where'd you find these?
On the note of original designs, I remember hearing somewhere that Vega was originally supposed to wear a suit of armor. Anyone know if that has any truth to it?

I've heard that a few times, about his original design waaaay back in SFII.

 

[kr3wman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg_ZlPlUJjs&feature=related

I'm pretty sure Vega's design comes from this guy.

Akuma's design also comes from the same anime, and Zangief too I think.

It's pretty sweet.

 

[Dogysamich]

Oh my god, if you didnt watch SF4 teams at Seasons Beatings 4, you missed the greatest screencap ever.

Daigo Umehara + Morton's Salt + Pringles + Flite.

LOOOOOOOOOL.

 

[fullynick]

hey dogysamich i see you on ggpo sometimes

but im in australia so...

yeah i was gonna ask if u were from smashboards but then i reminded myself how much love smash gets amongst the fighting game community

 

[Big-Cat]

man i wanted to second fuerte when the game came out because he yells "NO BUENO" when he dies. i really hope he stops sucking in ssf4.

and speaking of sucking i don't think alex will be in as he's too busy sucking all the **** in tvc to be in ssf4. im sticking with ibuki, dudley, and makoto being in ssf4.

Actually, he just says NO WAY! when he's knocked out.

There's a whole lot of stuff they can do to fix up Fuerte. Here's a list of what of I've seen on SRK for suggestions along with some of mine:

1. Faster normals all around.
2. Quesadilla Bomb is now QCF+K.
3. Gordita Sorbat now becomes a forward Picadillo Jump with the option to air grab.
4. Target combo removed because it's useless.
5. More effective BnB other than RSF.
6. Increase HP to 950.
7. Increase his damage output.

Overall, his risk:reward ratio should be like Viper, Akuma, and Seth's. Those characters are glass cannons, but they can rack up the damage like crazy. El Fuerte currently is limited to his RSF which is both hard as hell to pull off (I've only done 2.) and hard to get it in.

 

[CodeBlack]

Actually, he just says NO WAY! when he's knocked out.

There's a whole lot of stuff they can do to fix up Fuerte. Here's a list of what of I've seen on SRK for suggestions along with some of mine:

1. Faster normals all around.
2. Quesadilla Bomb is now QCF+K.
3. Gordita Sorbat now becomes a forward Picadillo Jump with the option to air grab.
4. Target combo removed because it's useless.
5. More effective BnB other than RSF.
6. Increase HP to 950.
7. Increase his damage output.

Overall, his risk:reward ratio should be like Viper, Akuma, and Seth's. Those characters are glass cannons, but they can rack up the damage like crazy. El Fuerte currently is limited to his RSF which is both hard as hell to pull off (I've only done 2.) and hard to get it in.

Not to mention his ridiculously-hard-to-hit-with ultra. You really have to have a good set up for it, because you're never going to hit with it unless you pull it off just right.

 

[ZMan]

personally i think zangief is almost perfect. they just need to make his lariat not hit crouching opponets but make his running bear grab like hdr bear grab. but right now im planning on maing gief, abel. rufus, deejay, ibuki, guy, cody, and this hakan guy ve heard about.

lol that daigo pic= win

 

[Dogysamich]

hey dogysamich i see you on ggpo sometimes

but im in australia so...

yeah i was gonna ask if u were from smashboards but then i reminded myself how much love smash gets amongst the fighting game community

Yeah, I get on there from time to time. And yeah, although melee is my main game, I'm one of the few people who doenst think melee is "the greatest game ever" (cause oh dear god it's far from it)

But yeah, I mainly play Super Turbo on GGPO because that's what the few people around me ask to play, but i'd be down for some ST, SFA3, 3s, Pocket Fighter, or last but most important some frickin puzzle fighter if you wanted to, just hit me up.

I dont bite. (Often).

_
double check edit:

Zman, (i think) Seth was on the SB4 stream today talking about how Gief is actually the one character that needs to be "fixed" for Gief. Like, he's good, but he's the only one with absolutely horrible matchups because of how he's made.

It makes sense, because although he's like, high tier, he's the only character that really has dumb matchups, ie vs seth (The high tier statement is going off 'rog ryu rufus being top and sagat being sagat tier)

He went on in saying the lower tier characters just need to flat out be a little better, but they still dont have it as bad as gief does in some matchups. Being a sakura(/balrog) main, I can see it myself. Atleast I have somewhat viable options when sagat is fullscreen spamming tigershots or ryu has 2 stocks + ultra.... or when seth exists and is running. XD


Note: I say "I think" it was seth because I didnt catch exactly who it was, and I dunno what Killian looks like other than he's white.

 

[metaXzero]

You can actually Google Mr. Killian to see what he looks like.