Street Fighter IV *Super, AE and Ver.2012*

[OneWingSephiroth]

I posted new info on that thread you were talking about.

Basically:
The important thing is to have Ryu be at a distance so that the SRK hits as late as possible, thereby bringing him back down to the ground early enough for the ultra to hit.

And as far as I know, it's only possible in the corner.

Yeah, I tried it out and confirmed it too...this simply makes Ryu more of a wrecking machine now. Now all I need to do is start strategically implanting this into my Ryu play so that it becomes second hand nature and it will change up things .

As for the Ken fetish, it's post 3S syndrome in this era now, and alot of peeps are still riding on Ken, not to mention he's USA, sure he's half Japanese, but he's still half Caucasian American, and besides, he's been one of the most popular characters played in the US since 1991, so I highly doubt it'll end anytime soon.

 

[Blaze924]

which game takes more skill or takes longer to master Street Fighter 4 or SSBM? This is a question my friends and I are always arguing about.

 

[ChaosKnight]

SSBM

longer to master and longer to get close to goood competition
Street fighter 4 is alll about mindgames ... eventually
in street fighter you can get good quick and catch up to the good players but you will close the gap quicker than in melee

 

[Dreadz18x]

SSBM

longer to master and longer to get close to goood competition
Street fighter 4 is alll about mindgames ... eventually
in street fighter you can get good quick and catch up to the good players but you will close the gap quicker than in melee

i say its about equal

takes the same amount of time to actually know wut ur doing in both games.

as far as being "good" SSBM for now.

 

[Eltrotraw]

SF4 does have its own share of combos, but really SF4's engine(I think, maybe I'm wrong) doesn't allow for much maneuvering as SSBM.

I mean, I've been more of a fan of the King of Fighters series because running gives more versatility out of your attacks and you can short hop your attacks rather than having to always full hop like in Capcom fighters.
(then there's other fighters like Guilty Gear or Melty Blood but that's going too far off topic)

My point is that I'd say SSBM takes more skill due to more tech and maneuvers being available to the players. High level fighting games always rely on spacing, and that's pretty much it for SF4 - at least in SSBM you have DI and/or teching to get out of any nasty combos that you may have gotten caught in, whereas in most other fighters if you get hit by the first hit of the combo you're pretty much going to get hit by the whole string.

 

[OneWingSephiroth]

which game takes more skill or takes longer to master Street Fighter 4 or SSBM? This is a question my friends and I are always arguing about.

SF4>>>SSBM

The mastering of SF4 requires more effort from the player then in SSBM, firstly, Melee is 10x easier to pick up, executing moves and attacks inherently simple (F+B or Up+B) will initiate specials and such. While in SF4 it requires you to execute motions like QCF or 360 in case of Zangief's SPD.

It involves more then just mind games, but if you'll notice the greatest thing about SF4 is that everysingle character has a "sweet" spot, like for instance Ryu's game can involve long distance positioning, or outside of footsie range gameplay, and then up close FADCing options. I could go on and on, however Melee does not require the same lvl of effort, and I will assure you and everyone here, that the gaps between a solid player to a great player is huge in both games, however the understanding of the strategy vs strategy in SF4 is larger due to the fact of far greater distinctive character individualism.

Both games are relatively easy to pick up, however Melee is that much more easy to pick up, while SF4 requires more effort. However at the deep end, SF4 is a much more broad and deeper fighting game.

 

[Brother J]

Is there a smashboards of street fighter?

 

[Vulcan55]

Shoryuken.com

 

[ChaosKnight]

yes but dont be a person who asks alot of question Actually read through cause they prolly already answered it ......

 

[Ken34]

SF4>>>SSBM

The mastering of SF4 requires more effort from the player then in SSBM, firstly, Melee is 10x easier to pick up, executing moves and attacks inherently simple (F+B or Up+B) will initiate specials and such. While in SF4 it requires you to execute motions like QCF or 360 in case of Zangief's SPD.

It involves more then just mind games, but if you'll notice the greatest thing about SF4 is that everysingle character has a "sweet" spot, like for instance Ryu's game can involve long distance positioning, or outside of footsie range gameplay, and then up close FADCing options. I could go on and on, however Melee does not require the same lvl of effort, and I will assure you and everyone here, that the gaps between a solid player to a great player is huge in both games, however the understanding of the strategy vs strategy in SF4 is larger due to the fact of far greater distinctive character individualism.

Both games are relatively easy to pick up, however Melee is that much more easy to pick up, while SF4 requires more effort. However at the deep end, SF4 is a much more broad and deeper fighting game.

hmm, im originally from SRK, and i was playing SF before i got into smash, but when i did get into smash, i was amazed by the fact that execution wise, melee was a bit more demanding than the street fighter series. i will agree that you can pick up smash faster, but in the end when it comes to high level play, id say they are about the same, unless you picked up someone like fox or sheik, then maybe you can hold your own alot faster in smash. thats the thing about street fighter 4, even if someone started playing with sagat, i think it would take them a hell of alot longer to hold thier own in SF4 then if they would have picked up fox or sheik in smash.

 

[Rain(ame)]

hmm, im originally from SRK, and i was playing SF before i got into smash, but when i did get into smash, i was amazed by the fact that execution wise, melee was a bit more demanding than the street fighter series. i will agree that you can pick up smash faster, but in the end when it comes to high level play, id say they are about the same, unless you picked up someone like fox or sheik, then maybe you can hold your own alot faster in smash. thats the thing about street fighter 4, even if someone started playing with sagat, i think it would take them a hell of alot longer to hold their own in SF4 then if they would have picked up fox or sheik in smash.

I agree with this as well. I was into Street Fighter before Smash as well, and yes...it is easier to pick up Smash. However, when I got back into both games and found the competitive community, I found it a LOT harder to develop my Smash game, as opposed to my Street Fighter. So much to the point, where it was a bit pointless for me to play people in Melee, and rather play them in SF. It was more exciting, and the matches were close. In the end...he's right, they wind up about the same in High level play.

 

[SirroMinus1]

Huh? I Unno?!
It seems SRK don't like us.

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=177816

 

[Vulcan55]

They don't like all the Brawl noobs on these forums.
If you're not an over-vocal Brawl noob (Who generally doesn't know **** and equates to over half Smashboards population, I would assume) you should be fine.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Huh? I Unno?!
It seems SRK don't like us.

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=177816

Most of the people on SRK are pretty cool people. They just don't tolerate the kiddie bull**** that pervades Smashboards.

Smooth Criminal

 

[smashbot226]

I like both these forums for completely conflicting reasons.

If they want to state their opinion, then let them.

 

[OneWingSephiroth]

I agree with this as well. I was into Street Fighter before Smash as well, and yes...it is easier to pick up Smash. However, when I got back into both games and found the competitive community, I found it a LOT harder to develop my Smash game, as opposed to my Street Fighter. So much to the point, where it was a bit pointless for me to play people in Melee, and rather play them in SF. It was more exciting, and the matches were close. In the end...he's right, they wind up about the same in High level play.

That means your not playing the right people, my brother's whom have played both SF and Smash, have found themselves more successful in Smash then they ever were in SFII. In fact my youngest brother today is capable of playing Melee very well, however he cannot do the same in SF, even though he has played SF far longer and worked harder on it more so then Melee simply due to the fact of what I stated earlier, there's more to the match up in comparison to Melee, and execution is more demanding.

In the deep end, Melee is not on SF's lvl (depending upon which version of SF your playing, however I'm speaking of SFII and SFIV). With the execution in Melee nowhere near as demanding and the fact that most matches will revolve around getting in close and dealing damage nearly 95% of the time.

You play something like SFIV and it depends upon the character...you fight Sagat, he can keep you out with Tiger Shots, AA's, and s.fk's to punish you. You fight Dhalsim and he'll projectile, poke you out with limbs to keep you out, you throw a projectile, he'll Teleport and punish you for it.

You fight Balrog and he'll be rushing and positioning himself over you to dominate, you fight Gouki and he'll air projectile zone/space you to submission. The wealth of understanding match ups are bigger because characters play far more differently from one another then in Melee. Play very good and competitive players in SF and you'll see exactly what I mean. Long, Mid, and Close range strategies are very present and very strong in the game of SFIV as opposed to Melee, and remember that positioning, footsies play bigger roles in a game of SFIV then actually "landing combos".

You take an average joe to pick up both games, and I guarantee you that they'll get better and quicker in Melee then they will with SFIV. I mean, a new player will quickly get the moves for Melee down already which they can then already start to develop their gameplay, however in SF, if you've never played a fighting game before...just simply trying to do thing like a Hadouken, much worse yet Shoryuken consistently will take a far greater amount of time. So you'll be spending a great deal of time just learning the execution downs, the Six button layout of different damaging attacks doesn't help either, and only makes it more difficult. In Melee, there's just one button to swing your attacks, while in SFIV, again, there's six. Just look at the beginning step right here and you'll see what I mean already.

Melee's accessibility is easier to understand and grasp the concept of it. In SFIV, you have so much things...Learning the executions which is already difficult for a newbie, high/low mixups, cross ups, FA strikes, FA whiffs, FA Baits, tick throws, throw baits, Long, Mid, Close range positioning, footsie games, etc, etc...the face of understanding is far greater.

 

[ismokeherbz]

ssbm in my opinion

 

[ChaosKnight]

idk what your talking about a HAdouken is like trying to do wavedash ....

idk how high of competitive play youve gotten in Melee or your brother....... but ive gotten really high

but its more than pressing single buttons ......

i really would say they are both high level of play but Sf4 would be slightly deeper

 

[KitsuneKing]

getting certain links down is far harder than anything in melee -.-

 

[Vulcan55]

Just because you can do all the attacks in Melee doesn't mean you can actually play the game well.
>.>

 

[Eltrotraw]

Though getting into Melee may be easier, you must understand that utilizing all the techniques well takes more than just random button presses. Knowing what you can do and knowing what to do are two rather different things. You may know how to SHL/pillar, but unless you can apply it effectively, it's just merely knowledge in the back of your head.

I feel high level Melee play requires faster finger speed than SF does, and techskill is more demanding - SF4 has EX attacks, wakeups, buffering and focus attack(+ cancel)... Melee has L-cancelling, wavedashing(+ landing), dashdancing, jump cancelling...

I mean both games have their depth, yes, but I'm just saying I think Melee's depth goes much further than just simply understanding your moves and techniques.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with that SF4 has its depth, I just feel that Melee has more depth, if only slightly.

 

[Minato]

I execute (a good share of) combos and moves really well in SF; Melee I still have issues with certain things.

To me, the learning curve maybe be different for every person.
As for which has the most depth, they're very different in my eyes.
SF IV has a lot of depth in which you can't see compred to Melee.

I don't get what I'm trying to say, but I'm just throwing it out there.

 

[KitsuneKing]

i think the amount of execution in Brawl is way more strict than Melee and SFIV combined

 

[Discolicious]

i think the amount of execution in Brawl is way more strict than Melee and SFIV combined

LOL I hope that was a joke

 

[Eltrotraw]

If it weren't, I'd like to know what parts of Brawl require such strict execution.

The sad part is there probably are a few people that actually would believe that.

 

[KitsuneKing]

I think the strict execution is when you turn on your Wii and slide in that disc.

that's as hard as it gets.

 

[Dreadz18x]

I think the strict execution is when you turn on your Wii and slide in that disc.

that's as hard as it gets.

nah bruh u gotta put batteries in the wii mote and mess with the sensor.

**** strick my *****

 

[smashbot226]

I saw the new Street Fighter Movie.

I'm not even going to lie: The Van Damme movie was BETTER.

 

[SirroMinus1]

That means your not playing the right people, my brother's whom have played both SF and Smash, have found themselves more successful in Smash then they ever were in SFII. In fact my youngest brother today is capable of playing Melee very well, however he cannot do the same in SF, even though he has played SF far longer and worked harder on it more so then Melee simply due to the fact of what I stated earlier, there's more to the match up in comparison to Melee, and execution is more demanding.

In the deep end, Melee is not on SF's lvl (depending upon which version of SF your playing, however I'm speaking of SFII and SFIV). With the execution in Melee nowhere near as demanding and the fact that most matches will revolve around getting in close and dealing damage nearly 95% of the time.

You play something like SFIV and it depends upon the character...you fight Sagat, he can keep you out with Tiger Shots, AA's, and s.fk's to punish you. You fight Dhalsim and he'll projectile, poke you out with limbs to keep you out, you throw a projectile, he'll Teleport and punish you for it.

You fight Balrog and he'll be rushing and positioning himself over you to dominate, you fight Gouki and he'll air projectile zone/space you to submission. The wealth of understanding match ups are bigger because characters play far more differently from one another then in Melee. Play very good and competitive players in SF and you'll see exactly what I mean. Long, Mid, and Close range strategies are very present and very strong in the game of SFIV as opposed to Melee, and remember that positioning, footsies play bigger roles in a game of SFIV then actually "landing combos".

You take an average joe to pick up both games, and I guarantee you that they'll get better and quicker in Melee then they will with SFIV. I mean, a new player will quickly get the moves for Melee down already which they can then already start to develop their gameplay, however in SF, if you've never played a fighting game before...just simply trying to do thing like a Hadouken, much worse yet Shoryuken consistently will take a far greater amount of time. So you'll be spending a great deal of time just learning the execution downs, the Six button layout of different damaging attacks doesn't help either, and only makes it more difficult. In Melee, there's just one button to swing your attacks, while in SFIV, again, there's six. Just look at the beginning step right here and you'll see what I mean already.

Melee's accessibility is easier to understand and grasp the concept of it. In SFIV, you have so much things...Learning the executions which is already difficult for a newbie, high/low mixups, cross ups, FA strikes, FA whiffs, FA Baits, tick throws, throw baits, Long, Mid, Close range positioning, footsie games, etc, etc...the face of understanding is far greater.

You really made SF sound really technical there.
but you failed to compare the technical aspects of both games. i can easily give examples to make one game sound harder to learn to than the other with giving any examples.

 

[Shiri]

This isn't seriously devolving to Melee/Brawl v. Street Fighter, is it? Please tell me it's not.

 

[OneWingSephiroth]

You really made SF sound really technical there.
but you failed to compare the technical aspects of both games. i can easily give examples to make one game sound harder to learn to than the other with giving any examples.

Where did I say that it involves just "randomly" pressing buttons? I have competed in Melee before, for nearly 5 years when I did play it seriously, all of my brothers played competitively. However in contrast to SFIV, it requires more effort simply due to the game engine of SFIV (More demand in execution, more options in the game engine you must understand, and more that you have to incorporate into your gameplay). Even my sister who has like...zero experience playing Melee or SF competitively grasped the understanding of the advanced tactics of Melee far easier and more quickly then she did in SF, and again...she's been around SF far longer then Melee.

Someone said earlier that doing a Hadouken is equivalent to doing a Wavedash...however a WD in Melee is an advance tactic, no longer even a basic tactic...a Hadouken is a basic tactic/execution that must be learned, not to mention its a special move, and compare the two...Up+B for SpinAttack with Link, to QCF+Punch button for SF...which do you think the new player will grasp first? That's what I'm pointing out, in Melee, it's much easier to grasp the basic's and get into the more advanced tactics, while in SFIV grasping the basics means that your execution demands have to be polished before doing so.

However it's not just the "technical" aspects, it seems you guys completely forgot to read the big point I was trying to point out. It's understanding the match ups and the strategy vs strategy that sets SFIV well apart from Melee. The character match ups are more demanding, simply because the characters in SFIV play with far greater distinctiveness then what is seen in Melee, that's why matches will require more understanding and learning on the players part.

When you are positioning your characters, you are having to think 2-3 steps ahead already (Talk to anyone who plays high lvl in SFII and even currently in SFIV and they'll say the samething), while limiting your opponents on what to do, all the mean while weighing and having a setup for all the situations in what they can do. That's why their are things such as corner traps, and what not, sure this happens in Melee as well, however not within the same lvl as what is seen in SF. It's like playing Tekken to Virtua Fighter, both games are actually quite easy to pick up and learn, Tekken more so then VF, however at the deep end, VF has more things that you simply to have worry about, and the situations, positioning within that game are much more broad, even though Tekken has the same aspects, it's not on the same level. You can say what you will about Melee, however it definitely is not within the same lvl of SFIV.

Anyhow, I no longer want to delve into this anymore, so please refrain from doing so and let's actually continue with SFIV...

So okay, I played online in SFIV at my cousins place for the first time on the PS3...All I can say is...I really hate Online play period.

Stupid lag spikes are annoying as hell, and coincidentally, characters like Blanka seem to feel stronger in online then they would originally at the arcades. Simply because it's harder to pick up things when once in a while your lag spiking, causing you to whiff your timing. Even peeps I've been talking to at srk are experiencing this....now this isn't saying that I'm losing to random Blanka players. However this kind of reminds of playing Hyper Fighting on the XBox with the slight lags...Blanka was already Top 3 within that game, however he was like arguably #1 in Online due to those reasons.

Obviously Blanka in SFIV isn't that good, however it's just annoying with these kind of conditions.

Far from it, however match ups such as those are more tedious and annoying due to the connection not being 100%...and no...95% connection with barely any lag is not good enough. I really tried to find connections locally, and one of my cousin who lives out of town bought the game, so I decided to call him up, so we could play, and both of us are running up on Cable connection, however again...still those annoying lag spikes.

I don't care how solid you are, or how near perfect the connection is...any of these small spikes can decide punishing a mistake or revolving into a mistake. Online isn't bad, I was able to find a few solid players who understood the game well, and could give me a solid challenge, however it's was absolutely ridiculous to see the amount of random Zangief players who would get on just to Lariat nearly 24/7 then random SPD out of it and think that they could do this against me . Then after I crush them with characters like Ryu, Chunli, Dhalsim and eventually Claw they say comments like "Your a noob, using Ryu shooting Hadoukens and nothing but jump in and sweeps! You Noob!" Or "You sUck for using Vega, because he can poke you to death."

Seriously...if I'm using basic tactics and I'm crushing you, and I'm a "noob" then what does that seriously make you then if your losing to me?

Anyhow, playing online has really solidified why I'll never truly take it seriously, and why I will always prefer face to face play more then anything. It's great to those who don't have access to solid players to play with, so I have no beef with that, just that when you've played a fighting game at the arcades or home console with 100% flawless no mess ups...online is a neg for me.

So I'll be sticking to just playing with the solid peeps I know from now on.

 

[Dr Drew the Dragon]

Rant about online.

Maybe it's just a 360 vs. PS3 thing, but I've only experienced noticeable lag once, and that was playing against a friend whose roommate happened to be torrenting something. When they shut down the torrent it was fine.

I'm really impressed with online play. Miles and miles ahead of Brawl at the very least. It's still not as good as playing in person obviously, but it's actually quite playable.

 

[Dreadz18x]

Maybe it's just a 360 vs. PS3 thing, but I've only experienced noticeable lag once, and that was playing against a friend whose roommate happened to be torrenting something. When they shut down the torrent it was fine.

I'm really impressed with online play. Miles and miles ahead of Brawl at the very least. It's still not as good as playing in person obviously, but it's actually quite playable.

i agree.
no reason to complain really. plus they're gettin an update for a lobby system and tournement mode

 

[smashbot226]

Really? Didn't hear about that. Oh well, must be too busy training with Rufus...

 

[CodeBlack]

I know this is pretty early to be saying this, but what do you guys think this says about the future of Street Fighter? Now that SF4 is a success, that probably means that the franchise is back in full swing, and we may be looking forward to new SF games semi-frequently now, as a series as apposed to something that had to come back from the dead.

Since there're no DLC characters, I wouldn't mind paying for an updated rerelease of SF4, as long as it had many more characters (like Dee Jay, if only because his theme was one of my favorite parts of SF2).

 

[Eltrotraw]

I know this is pretty early to be saying this, but what do you guys think this says about the future of Street Fighter? Now that SF4 is a success, that probably means that the franchise is back in full swing, and we may be looking forward to new SF games semi-frequently now, as a series as apposed to something that had to come back from the dead.

We may be looking forward to more fighters in general from Capcom, since fighting games seem to be rising up again. It's not just SFV we could be watching for(see below) but also other series that Capcom didn't care about may have forgotten like Rival Schools or Darkstalkers.

Still that's getting off topic.

Since there're no DLC characters, I wouldn't mind paying for an updated rerelease of SF4, as long as it had many more characters (like Dee Jay, if only because his theme was one of my favorite parts of SF2).

Knowing Capcom, they may just as well try milking out more versions of Street Fighter IV. Remember how many versions of SF2, SF3 and Alpha(particularly 3) came out?

DLC is possible, but I'm not sure if Capcom's going to milk the franchise that way.



Also, the online play isn't so bad. Connections are respectable, and as mentioned before, leagues better than Brawl. Stable connections are much easier to find and you can even check the stability of the connection before joining the game.

Do like.

What I'm more unimpressed with online is the amount of players that play Ken, but that's just a little gripe >.>

 

[CodeBlack]

Knowing Capcom, they may just as well try milking out more versions of Street Fighter IV. Remember how many versions of SF2, SF3 and Alpha(particularly 3) came out?

DLC is possible, but I'm not sure if Capcom's going to milk the franchise that way.

Also, the online play isn't so bad. Connections are respectable, and as mentioned before, leagues better than Brawl. Stable connections are much easier to find and you can even check the stability of the connection before joining the game.

Do like.

What I'm more unimpressed with online is the amount of players that play Ken, but that's just a little gripe >.>

I remember reading that DLC characters are out. I don't quite remember the reason, but I think it was something along the lines of it being unfair to people without internet to get character people with internet do, and, thus, the only DLC options are for superficial things like costumes, though I could be thinking of a different game.

The problem with new versions of SFIV is that games are more expensive (to buy) nowadays, and the age of cheating gamers out of large amounts of money for a few new characters and a gameplay quirk is over. Capcom's going to have to get used to either DLC or sequels.

On the online, I've only ever had one bad online experience. Desperate for a match after being unable to play tons of others, I settled for someone with one bar of internet. I spent the whole thing under massive lag, getting my *** kicked, unable to really make a move and plan ahead, while the other guy was clearly used to it.

Other than that, the internet's been perfect, on the X:Box 360 at least. I agree about the Ken players too. At least the wave of people who used Gouken without actually knowing anything about him has passed.

 

[Cashed]

Even if they've said that DLC characters would be unfair to those without an internet connection, I still believe they'll be releasing downloadable characters. They said they had models and movesets built for T. Hawk and Deejay... I don't see a reason they wouldn't be willing to cash that out, especially with them already charging 320 Microsoft Points for alternative COSTUMES.

 

[Emblem Lord]

A game that demands a high level of execution isn't neccessarily deep. Melee is far more technical and both games have quite a bit of depth at a high level.

I do think it's harder to get really good in Melee though since you have to learn so much technical stuff before you even learn how to fight. SF4 is not hard to get good at. It's just knowing your options, your spacing, block strings, etc. Melee's loose combat engine actually makes things harder.

It makes controlling your opponent and the flow of the match much more difficult.

 

[Cia]

^ you are very quickly becoming one of my favorite posters.