Starcraft 2 (Info on first post!)

[Zankoku]

It can, depending on what you do with it.
All I did was
1. Play Random, so that I could learn the general mechanics of all 3 races
2. Pick a standard composition (mech, bio, gateway, The Protoss Ball, Roach/Hydra) or a single unit to produce
3. Play heavy heavy macro, focusing on keeping money low and avoiding supply block or forgetting workers
4. Attack at 200/200

 

[Lore]

Sounds like a fun thing to do on my next long trip in a car; thanks. ^_^

 

[victra♥]

more nerfs to toss and terran haha

Loss record removal was the largest nerf in the patch by far.

i love it <3

The Terran nerfs just keep coming.

Tempted to switch to Zerg.

aw yea

quick question guys, but what do you do against a toss ball that has a HTs in there? I haven't experienced those storming things yet, and i'm just wondering how you're supposed to deal with them? Do you just run away until they're out of energy?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

if you dodge the storm, youre in good shape. Now that HT aren't so easy to replenish, avoiding one storm is a big deal. Depending on your race, you might have other options. For example, if you play terran you can try to get an EMP off on them. This works really well on lower level players since they are more likely to bunch up their casters. I don't face it that much as zerg since colloxen are so powerful, but i suppose i would just disengage when they stormed (they can't move forward else they get hurt by their own storm) and reengage when it ended.

 

[shanus]

the removal of amulet from HTs is so sad. it pretty much ruins any variable opening for earlier HT transitions :-\

 

[Overswarm]

Eh, it only takes 10 seconds to warp in a high templar. It takes 50 for us to make an infestor. If I make an infestor the same time you make a high templar, you'll have enough energy for storm by the time my infestor pops. They just aren't emergency units anymore.

 

[Zone]

Eh... Not 100% fair to compare like that. Cuz it's assuming you aren't on cool down. Unless that 10 seconds is the cool Down time with chrono boost, then nevermind.

But I ran into like 6 douchebags in a row online and would like to friendly 1v1 later today around 6pm cst. People ignoring me after saying I suck for beating them. I've also been playing way too much teams and néed to get back Into the defend myself mode

 

[M@v]

OS, your mlg interview is all over the place on Bnet's forums. Every zerg is saying how Idra called infestors OP, and that they MUST be broken as **** if IdrA says it.

 

[ArcNatural]

Eh... Not 100% fair to compare like that. Cuz it's assuming you aren't on cool down. Unless that 10 seconds is the cool Down time with chrono boost, then nevermind.

But I ran into like 6 douchebags in a row online and would like to friendly 1v1 later today around 6pm cst. People ignoring me after saying I suck for beating them. I've also been playing way too much teams and néed to get back Into the defend myself mode

This is the best. Finding a practice partner, playing a few games and getting called "you suck laters" after beating them every game practicing the build your trying to do.

This one terran I did muta/sling practice and he could never stop it. Said he didn't want to play a bad player and left. I don't know what the concept of practice games :X. This actually happens a lot. I'm guessing they just want to be the one barely winning rather than the other way around.

 

[Nashun]

Yeah, it's stupid when people say "oh yeah it only takes 10 seconds to get a templar or zealot or whatever you need" when it puts our building on cooldown. That's like saying barracks are dumb cuz you can start building a unit RIGHT after the previous one finishes! Amazing!
Edit: If Protoss could get a templar in 10 seconds then they'd be able to mass produce them with like 6 templar/gateway/sec

 

[rhan]

Eh... Not 100% fair to compare like that. Cuz it's assuming you aren't on cool down. Unless that 10 seconds is the cool Down time with chrono boost, then nevermind.

But I ran into like 6 douchebags in a row online and would like to friendly 1v1 later today around 6pm cst. People ignoring me after saying I suck for beating them. I've also been playing way too much teams and néed to get back Into the defend myself mode

Same I've been playing too many team games but now since we can't be demoted I might as well play more 1v1's. lol

I still need Toss practice even though I'm more confident against them now.

 

[shanus]

Eh, it only takes 10 seconds to warp in a high templar. It takes 50 for us to make an infestor. If I make an infestor the same time you make a high templar, you'll have enough energy for storm by the time my infestor pops. They just aren't emergency units anymore.

This is also a completely unfair comparison on both an upgrades basis, and tech-path basis. The fact of the matter is this is a large impact on PvT where it's simply too easy to counter collosus tech with vikings (TSL SlayersBoxer is a good example match). Amulet is one of the best ways to deal with mobile bioball, and now its gone. I think it would have been better if it was a nerfed amulet, say 15 energy instead of 25, so that the wait time wouldn't be so damn long, but not instant, but this is just silly.

 

[Omni]

You still have blink stalkers to deal with Vikings very nicely.

 

[Zankoku]

lol, that's like saying "you still have Medivacs to drop point blank on a Siege Tank surrounded by Marines." Unless there's like... half a dozen Colossi against a mostly Marine ball, blinking your Stalkers way out of position to focus down Vikings is a terrible plan.

 

[Omni]

what i mean is that the psi storm isn't just good for Vikings, but for the entire MMM ball itself. also terran armies in TvP usually seperate their vikings from the rest of the mass MMM in order to keep Vikings away from Stalkers and MMM away from Colossi and vice versa. so a decent micro blink stalkers can be really advantgeous if u catch your opponent in a bad position.

i also wouldn't compare Stalker's ability to Blink with marines ability to load up/drop off.

 

[shanus]

I'm not worried about vikings when I have temps lol. I'm worried about Bioball. Intelligent viking use will basically be able to 1-2 shot a collosus with maybe 1 or 2 viking casualties. Prime example I cited is look at the TSL SlayersBoxer match.

Saying "Blink Micro" isn't going to change much in a scenario like that (except get your stalkers killed, AND use their cooldown preventing hull damage blinks), which is how vikings should be used to begin with.


The problem is that collosus build is basically what PvT is being pidgeon-holed into, but its *much* easier to counter for T and 99% of the time its on the same damn tech pattern. Yes, spammable templars were extremely powerful in PvT, hence why I would have supported a nerfed amulet, but not an entire amulet removal.

 

[Omni]

ah, well only reason why i mentioned it because i saw a recent match at IEM(?) with WhiteRa vs. QXC where he blinked his stalkers under a poorly positioned viking unit which practically won him the game

 

[Nashun]

Yeah I think Pheonix are going to have to be the answer to Viking rather than Psi-storm being the answer to MMM. Collosus are pretty much required now and the matchup is going to be more focused towards how much air you should build rather than should I be more Collosus/viking heavy or templar/ghost heavy.

Edit: And with the sheer immobility of the templar now, they're only real use is going to be to stop harassment at expos. 1 templar charging energy + 2-3 cannons per base late-game like in brood war. Using them in any large battle is just too slow and it puts much too much downtime on your army.

 

[shanus]

Yeah, Phoenix play is way more important now. Hell, you could prolly just forget the templar at expo and use pure phoenix and lift + support from 1-2 cannons.

Given the fact that templars can't feedback corruptors or thors anymore, and have to wait 10 hours to use psi storm, its pretty sad to see their incredibly niche utility.

 

[Zankoku]

what i mean is that the psi storm isn't just good for Vikings, but for the entire MMM ball itself.

I think you've got a major misunderstanding here. Psi Storm was always for the MMM ball. Vikings are typically only built as a response to Colossi, and the only time you'd see them being the prime target of Psi Storms is if you were attempting Socke's old summer 2010 Carrier/High Templar army composition.

also terran armies in TvP usually seperate their vikings from the rest of the mass MMM in order to keep Vikings away from Stalkers and MMM away from Colossi and vice versa. so a decent micro blink stalkers can be really advantgeous if u catch your opponent in a bad position. i also wouldn't compare Stalker's ability to Blink with marines ability to load up/drop off.

Viking positioning is important, yes, but if you leave them in an unsupportable location before the main armies even engage, that's your own damn fault. Also, while Colossi vs bio is a pretty troublesome matchup for bio, they're only really effective against Marine-heavy mixes, and if not supported by a decent number of Zealots, I would really hesitate to Blink all my Stalkers away to hunt down some Vikings. Typically, though, Vikings are in a spot where they aren't right above the Protoss ball but not completely out of the way of the bio force either, so yes, Blinking Stalkers to shoot down Vikings that can be defended by Marines and Marauders is very comparable to attempting to fly a Medivac straight through anti-air Marine fire.

ah, well only reason why i mentioned it because i saw a recent match at IEM(?) with WhiteRa vs. QXC where he blinked his stalkers under a poorly positioned viking unit which practically won him the game

I've seen many matches in many tournaments where someone did X to punish poorly positioned Y to practically win the game. Hard punishment of mistakes isn't exactly useful for discussion of proper play between both players.

 

[M@v]

 

[rhan]

 

[Lore]

I lol'd.

Are the leagues locked now? I won my last 6 games, and I'm starting to get bored, haha.

 

[rhan]

Yup I believe so.

And in a long streak of not playing 1v1's i played today.

Went 3-2.

Only lost against Zerg.. and beat the Toss'.



How do I fight Zerg again?

 

[M@v]

If they dont get banelings(and apparently infestors now too), mass marines with medevacs.

Otherwise mech.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

infestors > mech too ^^

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Ghosts for infestors.

 

[Overswarm]

infestors > mech too ^^

They really aren't. They're good support units for mech, but it's not like you just make infestors and go "Herp! Yer done."

Thor strike cannons do a lot against infestors too. o_o

 

[Zankoku]

Do Strike Cannons outspeed Neural Parasite?

On another note, faster Battlecruisers are ****ing ****.

 

[M@v]

Kinda at a loss on some of these larger macro maps for TvZ. Takes me foreeevvvverrrr to get to the Z player, whether its with harassment or an actual attack, and he just drones up way too hard. Plus especially on the new taldarin map, there are a ridiculous amount of backdoors to cover.

 

[rhan]

If they dont get banelings(and apparently infestors now too), mass marines with medevacs.

Otherwise mech.

I tried a pretty much all mech build one game then I tried a Blue Flame Helion -> Bioball transition.

The first game I played against a Zerg was all sorts of Mech. I went from Blue Flame Helions -> cloaked Banshees -> Tank/Helion -> Thor/Rine. And everything I threw at him just got wrecked.

Ghosts for infestors.

I didn't try Ghosts against Zerg yet but I might. The snipe ability could become somewhat useful. I don't know though.

Kinda at a loss on some of these larger macro maps for TvZ. Takes me foreeevvvverrrr to get to the Z player, whether its with harassment or an actual attack, and he just drones up way too hard. Plus especially on the new taldarin map, there are a ridiculous amount of backdoors to cover.

I took one glipse of that map and instabanned it. I'd rather play on Scrap Station..

But yeah I believe in TvZ it's more Helion based in the begining because Zerg can FE with such a certain safety. But with the Helions you can diminish Drone count and get good scouting information.




When does Grandmaster League start? I wanna follow the updates and the players when it all starts up.

 

[Omni]

Kinda at a loss on some of these larger macro maps for TvZ. Takes me foreeevvvverrrr to get to the Z player, whether its with harassment or an actual attack, and he just drones up way too hard. Plus especially on the new taldarin map, there are a ridiculous amount of backdoors to cover.

Lol, yea same. I was like, "Where's the ramp for me to block off?" And then I realized the Zerg was across the entire map and I'm like.... okaaay. Then lost.

Played about 4 ladder matches yesterday. Went like this:

- Some guy went for 7RR. Except it was slow so when I scouted the Wvyern I just mass produced Marauders and expanded. Won.

- Some guy went random and then scouted with one SCV real early. 10 seconds later all of his SCV's are rushing towards me. SCV rush, lol. Somehow won that.

- Had a macro battle against a Protoss. Harassed him really well with reapers and scouted him constantly, but I wasn't sure how to keep attack his colossi/stalker/armor dude ball with Siege/Marines so I got a few extra Thors/Vikings. Couldn't control the unit composition well. Lost when he attacked.

- Zerg on Xel Naga. Played my camp style. He expanded to Gold and took control of the center really fast. Had a hard time defending muta harass. Was out macro'd anyway. Looked at the replay and realized for almost 3 minutes I had the army to just crush him and his expansion early game. Lost.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

lol u guys should spend more time on that map, because its definitely a terran favored one.


for example, the 2 base tank marine push against zerg is really strong since u can park ur tanks on the low ground behind the 2nd base mineral line. You can also pretty easily wall in behind ur 2nd base so you can't be counter attacked.

 

[Omni]

lost to a guy i really hate losing to yesterday. now my drive to get better at this game has multiplied infinitely.

i'm just going to ladder until my hands fall off.

 

[Lore]

lost to a guy i really hate losing to yesterday. now my drive to get better at this game has multiplied infinitely.

i'm just going to ladder until my hands fall off.

Want to play some when I get back from school? I need to practice against terran.

 

[Omni]

Sure. I'll be able to play after 5. Just let me know when you're free.

 

[Kenrawr]

ooo kenny sensei wants to spec and eat popcorn

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Yo to the guy im supposed to be playing in tourney this round, i'm free all day today to play. I have to go to bed somewhat early tho, but i will then have tomorrow night free too.

let me know

 

[Lore]

Sure. I'll be able to play after 5. Just let me know when you're free.

Sure. I'll be on a bit after 5 est.

And yes Kenny, you can watch me lose.

 

[Omni]

More like watch ME lose.

It'll be closer to 7ish tho. I have to pick up my lil bro from baseball practice. But I'm literally doing nothing else so that's awesome.