Starcraft 2 (Info on first post!)

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

If by "screws up" you mean "makes fair", then yes.

This means that Terran can't be super aggro early on with marines while expanding, because now we have time to actually make defensive structures or units to defend ourselves. o_o

It literally pushes back everything. Like, actually everything. It's stupid. Marines are the issue, there's no need to push back everything when you can just fix that issue.

 

[rhan]

They should leave Terran alone.

And I hope that Ultralisk one doesn't transition over.

 

[Overswarm]

It literally pushes back everything. Like, actually everything. It's stupid. Marines are the issue, there's no need to push back everything when you can just fix that issue.

That's the thing, marines WEREN'T the issue. It was marines, marine/maurader all-ins vs. toss, reaper rushes vs. zerg (2 rax tech lab with 2 reapers for harass and then 8 reaper focus firing a hatchery... ugh), fast 1-1-1 blue flame hellion drops, fast 1-1-1 hellion harass + marine drop with late banshee support... it goes on and on. Everything Terran did was just a liiiiiiittle too strong early on, and they always had extra minerals left over because of mules. Increasing the timing prevents their strategies to be about simply out runnign the opponent.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

That's the thing, marines WEREN'T the issue. It was marines, marine/maurader all-ins vs. toss, reaper rushes vs. zerg (2 rax tech lab with 2 reapers for harass and then 8 reaper focus firing a hatchery... ugh), fast 1-1-1 blue flame hellion drops, fast 1-1-1 hellion harass + marine drop with late banshee support... it goes on and on. Everything Terran did was just a liiiiiiittle too strong early on, and they always had extra minerals left over because of mules. Increasing the timing prevents their strategies to be about simply out runnign the opponent.

Hellions have already been nerfed this patch, and marines are a key to every strategy you listed except for the reaper one, but honestly how many times have you actually seen that? should be scoutable and fairly easy to defend against anyway. So yeah, I'd say marines really are the basis of the issue.

 

[Zankoku]

Early 2 rax double tech lab reapers feels pretty gas-heavy for a 1 base build.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

And overlord scouting should be easy as pie if the only barracks units they're making are reapers.

 

[Overswarm]

Overlords aren't good scouts. At all.

If your zerg opponent goes 14 hatch, a 2 rax one refinery play using only reapers can and will kill them. Build bunkers outside their base to pull drones / force lings, and if they don't stop them they lose due to reapers. But for the most part, the bunkers are to pull drones / force lings. You've got the minerals, so it doesn't matter.

After your two reaper harass (if they pulled their queen from their main and didn't make another, it's gg, come back with 8 reapers and kill their hatchery in their main. If they attack with queens, focus fire them and kill them. Kill drones if you want, but I'd suggest focus firing the hatchery and then killing their incoming lings off creep.

 

[Kenrawr]

wait wat. i can't remember the last time i saw mass reaper play.

 

[rhan]

Massing Reapers now a days is just silly talk.

 

[Zankoku]

Fear the Reaper, man.

 

[Overswarm]

It happens pretty frequently on Nezarim crypt now. You get an ultra choke that is ultra protected mid game by tanks / walls, and can wall off easily with just barracks.

If a terran sees you going 14 hatch instead of speedling first, their 2 rax turns into 2 rax with tech labs. They get many reapers, no speed, and harass with two while amassing more. With their extra cash they build a 3rd barracks by their natural for a wall-off, then a command center. Once they hit 8-10 reapers they lift their barracks and land them at their natural, completing the wall-off, and switch to marine/tank with two tech labs already created. The only thing that can really hurt this is mutalisks, which should be scouted and stopped by reapers, or at least delayed long enough to allow for turrets.

 

[Zankoku]

Why not just tech from 2 rax Reaper into 2 base 3 rax 2 fact BFHellion/Marauder all-in? There's a Factory there too, so you can research Nitro Packs if transitioning later.

Yes, I'm totally throwing terms and half-builds together to bull**** a strategy.

 

[Overswarm]

Because if you maurader / hellion you are doing an all-in; this means you die if your reaper attack doesn't do as much damage as you'd like and they got mutalisks. Marine/tank on the other hand allows for total defense from anything the zerg can possibly have at that point save for infestors, which are horrible offensive units without a large supporting army. This means by going marine/tank, you've protected yourself from literally every unit combination while allowing you to be either offense or defense, including getting a 3rd base.

Any sort of "all in" generally isn't a good idea; maurader/helloin would work if you knew what they had, but at that point it's not really an issue. If they aren't totally crippled by the reapers, marine/tank is a safer transition and allows you to contain the zerg if need be.

 

[Limeee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdBb4fW6_NA&feature=feedu

Hi guys, im just a new zerg player (have been involved with starcraft for a long time casually however). Im nothing special haha. Maybe ill play with you guys sometime, pm me if your interested.
just wanted to post that baller play :3

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

The pictures pretty much explain themselves. Friendly game of starcraft between roy and myself....

 

[sakuraZaKi]

Lol, look at all those Hellio-

WHAT THE HECK!?

 

[Zankoku]

The minimap was hilarious.

 

[Limeee]

2 scvs to 77 drones -_-

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

The game was already over, he was sending units just cause... I just killed all his bases and stuff

 

[Mogwai]

Mogwai and I got Diamond in Starcraft 2 last night by cheesing every opponent in our placement matches.

It took us 45 minutes to win our 5 placement matches.

^that's including queue times too btw. Average game time under 5 minutes.

^ awww yea.

 

[F8AL]

Just reminding everyone here that this Sunday night is "PC night" where if you play any (non-shooter) PC game online together with other SWFers, you'll get postbits!

 

[rhan]

Nice. I wish I didn't have night classes now. :/

 

[F8AL]

Are you free during the nights on the weekends?

 

[Zankoku]

Man, I'm feeling really bad about Protoss, based on most recent results.

F8AL, if it's Sunday then I can definitely set up SC2 for that night.

 

[rhan]

Weekend's I have a life. every other day it's CLass then sleep then HW then test then class.

 

[Omni]

Just saw the recent patch update:

"Infestor’s Neural Parasite can no longer target Massive units."

 

[Pakman]

Wow that devalues that upgrade pretty significantly.

 

[Mogwai]

lmao. Yea, let's continue to nerf non-Forcefield spells. And leave forcefield. Herpdederp. I never like playing this game past like 4 minutes because at that point Protoss has forcefield, so I just 6/7 pool all-in every game.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Wait, isnt NP worthless now? What am i going to NP, the zealots? The only thing i ever use NP on is collosus, archons and thors. I guess tanks sometimes... but you should never get away with NPing tanks.

 

[Nashun]

lmao. Yea, let's continue to nerf non-Forcefield spells. And leave forcefield. Herpdederp. I never like playing this game past like 4 minutes because at that point Protoss has forcefield, so I just 6/7 pool all-in every game.

Maybe when every other gateway unit doesn't blow.

Edit: any other? you get the point.

 

[Zankoku]

Protoss kinda need Force Field to not die to every single 1-base all-in that exists.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Yeah i think FF is strong but not imbalanced. ghosts are way too powerful ATM. Snipe and EMP **** both other races.

 

[Mogwai]

Maybe when every other gateway unit doesn't blow.

Edit: any other? you get the point.

I understand that FF is the crutch that hold toss up, I'd just rather they balance Protoss around not having broken *** FF. I just really don't enjoy playing vs. FF-centric toss. I should just go back to BW probably.

 

[Zankoku]

To be fair, it's not like toss is getting a lot of options.
Late game High Templar? Let's remove Khaydarin Amulet.
Endgame deathball? Mass Phoenix play? Let's buff Infestors.
Vortex tricks? Let's make units that got Vortex'd invincible for 1.5 seconds.

Probably the only standard thing Blizzard hasn't altered in patches is the Force Field.

 

[Shockna]

I'm buying a new PC for this game pretty soon. Is there an active SWF SC2 community on BNet right now? >_>

Also, look at GSL right now. If anything, at top level play, 'Toss is the UP race, though I'm not sure why anyone is expecting balance at this stage of the game. BW was pretty unbalanced a year after release too XD

 

[Mogwai]

It's not the overall balance that bugs me, it's that forcefields are absurdly powerful and frustrating to play against.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Forcefields are strong, but sentries lose their place in the army after the 10 minute mark. Before then, treat sentries as a threat; if you overstep i will cut your army in half and kill it. Sentries are really weak and do almost no damage on their own, not to mention force fields are ineffective against massive units. Once terran gets ghosts, sentries only take up space. Once burrow/burrow movement is researched by zerg they can just stall or move past the forcefields.

forcefields are fundamentally overpowered, and i have always thought that, but starcraft is a game about balance based on overpowered. Look at the defiler, eating a ling to cast a spell that makes all ranged attacks worthless. Dark Swarm is overpowered. Reaver Drops, BW siege tanks, Lurkers, BW psi storm, Mind Control, BW mutas, medics. All that stuff was super strong, but because every race had lots of stuff that was really strong, it made for lots of good strategies and in the end lead to a very balanced game. Balance from Imbalance.

 

[Mogwai]

that feels fine from a tier 3 unit that has counterplay, but sentries are a tier 1 unit that have soft, awkward counters at tier 2, and then you don't hit the real counterplay (massive units) until tier 3. That's what bothers me about them.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

there are soft counters at tier 1. And sentries are already a tier 1.5. Soft counters include forcing FFs to drain energy or focusing them since they are squishy and do low DPS. They are really only defensive and non-spammable in the early/mid phases, you cant full on attack if they have enough energy. Tier 2 has stronger counters such as burrow movement, EMP, medivacs, stim, fungal growth, ect that lays a big shadow over FFs. Protoss also has no spell casters/AoE until tier 3, so having a tier 1.5 caster makes sense.

 

[Overswarm]

Sentries aren't tier 1.5. Needing a cybernetics core doesn't make sentries "tier 1.5". That implies they're harder to get to than tier 1. They aren't. You are invincible until you are able to get them anyways. -_-;;