Starcraft 2 (Info on first post!)

[Overswarm]

I disagree. Banelings and marines "go even" in the sense that marines should be able to run away/split from the blings without suffering cost efficient damage. But if marines try to engage then blings do effective damage. Before tanks are out, zerg has the clear advantage since zlings do more effective damage with the extra surface area from the splitting marines as well as gain time to surround since marines are running more than shooting. Stim and bling speed should be researched around the same time and effectively cancel each other out in this relationship.

This isn't changed too much when tanks are out, except that terran gains the stalling advantage since zerg constantly loses their forces even if the marines never shoot once. Zerg's answer to this is having mutalisks. The ground army is expendable at this point since mutalisks are the main damage dealers; if the ground army simply makes the marines not shoot the mutalisks while the mutas pick off the tanks/marines, the ground force doesn't have to deal damage cost efficiently.

But i digress, blings are one of the most cost effective units in the game especially against terran.

Banelings aren't cost effective at all unless your opponent makes a mistake or you use them via drops... or are already winning. When a baneling kills, it DIES.

 

[rhan]

Borrowed Banes are a huge surprise against an on coming Terran army. Banes in general are pretty much bad though.. I usually just run my weakest Marine at them and get at least 3-4 banes.

But yeah cost effective? They're more of a harassing unit imo. Hitting mineral lines with those is harmful..

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Banelings are highly cost efficient lol. 50/25 for AoE damage? yes please. Every other AoE in the game costs MUCH MUCH more gas.

 

[Zankoku]

Yes, but unlike Banelings, Siege Tanks and High Templar can stick around after they dish it out. I've seen Siege Tanks with upwards of 30 kills. Can you accomplish that with five Banelings (the equivalent cost in gas for a Siege Tank)?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

how much damage do 5 blings do? 20dmg (+15light) for one, so between 100 and 175 for 5 depending on the targets.

Why don't we compare that to the gas for a HT (150g), which is 6 blings. 1 psi storm does 20 damage per second for 4 seconds.

Landing your bling hits all about strategy. You can bling landmine, flank with blings, surround with lings and finish with blings, drop blings, and probably other strategies in the future. If executed properly, blings are very cost efficient, but if improperly used they arent. Just like every other unit, but blings are more volatile.

 

[Zankoku]

And Siege Tanks are all about positioning, and Psionic Storms are all about placement, and Colossi are mostly about just being there in big numbers, and Archons are all about being a total baller because they get bonus damage vs everything remotely connected to Zerg.

I don't think Banelings are that great compared to most other splash options when just about every tactic you've listed so far, with the possible exceptions of Baneling drops and flanks (due to Zerg's mobility allowing them to control the map more effectively), is based on oversight or underpreparation from the opponent. Immediately, Banelings deal more damage per cost than many others. Over time, you're forced to keep making Banelings while the other stuff sticks around to kill more at the next battle (except for HTs becoming Archons).

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

blings are opposite from other AoE units in the sense that the others are in smaller numbers and are general focuses of the battle. Ghosts and templar face off and decide a battle before it really begins. When ling/bling/muta attacks marine/tank, the focus is on killing the tanks. When terran attacks a P with collosus, the vikings are picking off the collosus and the main point of the battle is to reduce the collosus numbers quickly. Blings aren't generally the focus of the battle in that way since they are generally swarmed in alongside lings and roaches and the focus is generally on the higher tech mutas or infestors. Basically, what i'm saying is that if tanks/HT/collosus/ect live to see another battle then the battle was lost completely by the opposing side, so its not really that important to say that blings die after they are used because so should the other ones.

Generally as the game progresses, i replace lings in my army with blings. Gas isn't the limiting resource in the late game as much as it is in the early game (since you generally are controlling 6+ geysers at all times). Lings have more speed and surround capacity but blings do much better DPS and thats whats most important in maxed army battles.

There are definite counter strategies to bling usage, terran generally hides their infantry behind their mech so that when the trade is complete marines > mutas. P can force field or AoE the blings. These are good solid strategies that can win games against bling-centric armies, but that doesn't mean that blings aren't cost efficient when used correctly.

 

[Omni]

I think the biggest strength of banelings is that they can eliminate a single composition out of an army forcing them to get an overwhelming advantage in a battle.

Lol, I saw one replay where Zerg player in end-game maxed out 200/200 Bling army like 40 minutes into the game. It was like a massive steamroller engulfed the ground army and the large amounts of excess just ate away at his bases. Not practical at all, but very funny to watch.

[yt]ThdLVMZCf20[/yt]

 

[Nasty_Nate]

what ever happened to that tourney thing

 

[Zankoku]

Zone and Roman decided to schedule their match at the end of time, evidently.

 

[Roman.]

i'm ready to do it, just waiting for him to tell me a day and time

 

[Zone]

i'm ready to do it, just waiting for him to tell me a day and time

I was out of town looking for a home saturday. Are you good to be on somewhat early on weekdays?? everytime we've tried for a weekday it has failed.

6:00 p.m. CST to 8:00 P.M. CST monday through Friday. I can stay up til 9 probably but If at all possible we gotta play in that little window lol.

I'm off today though.

 

[Roman.]

okay i can do today

bout to head out to ihop with my gf so any specific time that would be good for you?

 

[Zone]

Whenever you get home I'll be on in like 15 minutes



EDIT: ok screw it... I forfeit lol
I lost all drive to play and we held up the tournament long enough.

 

[Roman.]

= (

 

[AltF4]

Zergs: Which you you prefer getting first: 3rd base or spire?

One of my main ZvT/P builds has been to get a quick spire off 2 bases and expand to a third as the mutas start harassing.

It's weak spots tend to be that I have little to no offensive capability before the mutas since I'm teching kind of fast. Plus I'm remarkably vulnerable during the spire build time (which is long) and a timing push then just kills you outright.

I'm wondering if it might be better to macro a bit more / pressure more, and delay the mutas.

 

[_Dice]

Zergs: Which you you prefer getting first: 3rd base or spire?

One of my main ZvT/P builds has been to get a quick spire off 2 bases and expand to a third as the mutas start harassing.

It's weak spots tend to be that I have little to no offensive capability before the mutas since I'm teching kind of fast. Plus I'm remarkably vulnerable during the spire build time (which is long) and a timing push then just kills you outright.

I'm wondering if it might be better to macro a bit more / pressure more, and delay the mutas.

well in accordance with standard zerg you start them roughly the same time when playing safe, but when playing how you SHOULD be playign third comes first, and when you play how i play (infestorzerg) your fourth and potentially 5th can come before spire.

 

[AltF4]

Right, of course that assumes you're going muta at all. My main issue has been surviving into the mid game. I get a lot of all-in attacks right at about the time spire is building / finishing. And I wind up losing the game with like 1000/1000 resources in the bank. Quite frustrating.

Maybe I'm trying to save up for too many mutas to pop at once? Perhaps go only for like 5-6 in the first round so I have more minerals for defense. Hmm, I'll try that.

 

[_Dice]

Right, of course that assumes you're going muta at all. My main issue has been surviving into the mid game. I get a lot of all-in attacks right at about the time spire is building / finishing. And I wind up losing the game with like 1000/1000 resources in the bank. Quite frustrating.

Maybe I'm trying to save up for too many mutas to pop at once? Perhaps go only for like 5-6 in the first round so I have more minerals for defense. Hmm, I'll try that.

if you are pooling resources in anticipation of mutas, you should REALLY have vision of almost all of the map with lings and overlords. and when you see a push go spine crawler + roach heavy, roaches and spines use mins which replace quickly, they also last a long time, conveniently stalling for your mutas.

 

[Zankoku]

I don't think you should continue blindly saving your resources in anticipation of mutas if the other guy is already in the process of breaking down your front door.

 

[Nasty_Nate]

Holding off early attacks has nothing to do with muta timing, unless your getting blue flame hellon harassed, in which case a really fast spire is good but there are other better options (for defending).

You gotta scout the all-in/timing attack and block it first. Then
spire goes down
you drone
Spire pops
muta
???
profit

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I dont go mutas every game but when i do I generally prefer to get spire as soon as my lair finishes and producing mutas ASAP. Also, this is generally off two bases simply because its too risky to stay below lair if they have any gas at all. Only time I might have 3 bases before lair is if they did a super fast expo (nexus/CC first or forge expansion with heavy canons)

 

[Zankoku]

Nashun vs Yoster
Roman vs Nate

gogogo

gonna stop running tournaments for a bit after this since people are playing the "I don't want to play any more *forfeits*" game again.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Its only because Im not hyping this tournament up with my trash talk

 

[Roman.]

The forfeit only happened because our schedules were totally opposite of eachother. Please keep running more tournaments, a dedicated and growing crowd will come soon!!

 

[Zankoku]

I'm pretty sure this is the second forfeit in the tournament already.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

yeah it is, but who cares. This is for fun anyways so lets have fun with it

 

[Zankoku]

If people aren't even playing the matches I bet it'd be more fun just to ask for some games when people are around.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

i think the tournament idea is really fun. Otherwise i just ladder or w/e

 

[M@v]

Ugh >_>. Can't wait until I get my new comp so I can play again. I'm not playing on my laptop anymore because Im sick and tired of my computer overheating and crashing in ladder games :3. Even in regular custom games its annoying. Sit in a phantom game for almost an hour, then just when your about to make your move.....bleh. T_T


I'm going to have so much catching up to do with all the patches....its been almost 3 months now . The main thing I'm interested in seeing are the new toss playstyles that don't involve 2 gate robo or 4gate since it got nerfed.

 

[Nashun]

When is Yoster on

 

[Zankoku]

I'm pretty sure Protoss still use those builds.

 

[Zone]

Yeah it we tried to play practically every day. I'd sleep by the Time he got home. Vice versa. I Just don't want to waste more time or sit around for another week for a tourney match that should have happened two weeks ago.



It's really frustrating to sit around on sc2 waiting around only to waste all that time to find out the person you're waiting for couldn't make it in time. I don't blame roman. I'm the one with a small 3 hour window to play 5 days a week because of my 12-14 hour shifts.

 

[TheYoster]

nashun Im on right now and will be for the next hour. and tonight ill be on. I usually don't see you online much.

BTW sent you a pm

 

[Nashun]

i got yoster 2-0.

 

[Nashun]

As for the solution...

You droned too hard. If you look at the econ graph yours went really high above mine. If you're doing that you're always at risk of an attack doing a ton of damage. You saw I didn't have an expansion, go easy on the drones and play it safe. Once you saw the immortals your focus should have been on zerglings. Spam zerglings and make a 3rd hatch if you need to, less spine crawlers. That last game was just a simple example of greed.

 

[Roman.]

when can you play nastynate

 

[Tom]

well im almost done with the campaign if that counts

its actually been a very fun way to learn all the units and tech trees and junk

and also learn how to play from 0 experience

:3

 

[Scabe]

You gotta feel sorry for queens

 

[ArcNatural]

well im almost done with the campaign if that counts

its actually been a very fun way to learn all the units and tech trees and junk

and also learn how to play from 0 experience

:3

Yeah I did the same as you, just don't pick zerg when you start laddering imo. Hardest race to learn from scratch.