Stage Information Database and Q&A

[Budget Player Cadet_]

FML.

[collapse=Creme De La Creme stagelist]Starter Stages
• Battlefield
• Final Destination
• Lylat Cruise
• Smashville
• Yoshi’s Island (Brawl)

Counter-Pick Stages
• Castle Siege
• Delfino Plaza
• Frigate Orpheon
• Halberd
• Rainbow Cruise
• Pokemon Stadium 1[/collapse]

The TOs ignored any complaints from people like me (for once I'm not alone here), linkinhand, and yikarur and simply stated "PS2 is gay, I don't like it, so it'll stay banned". Not the end of the world, right? It's a 50-man regional... fairly big deal, but whatevs, we can deal...

[collapse=GOD DAMMIT GERMANY]
Starter Stages
• Battlefield
• Final Destination
• Smashville

Counter-Pick Stages
• Castle Siege
• Delfino Plaza
• Frigate Orpheon
• Halberd
• Lylat Cruise
• Pokémon Stadium 1
• Pokémon Stadium 2
• Yoshi’s Island (Brawl)[/collapse]

Akuma, xDD-Master, if you namesearch, WE HAVE TO TALK. In case you're wondering what's different... This stagelist has 1 stage ban, neither Brinstar nor Rainbow Cruise legal, and 3 starters. THREE STARTERS! YES, THOSE THREE! Which is disappointing because last night before he posted the ruleset, I spent like an hour chatting with him about stagelists, and I thought I had made some progress. Nope, guess not... And this is probably going to be upwards of 90 people, one of the largest german tournaments, BiB. FML. ****ing germany, just when you think you're making some progress... I HAVE GOT TO FIND A VENUE TO HOST AT!!!

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Quit, there's no point anymore.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

If I can delay the inevitable onset of 3-stage stagelists, then I damn well will.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

3-stage stage-list wouldn't bother me as long as one of those stages is Mario Bros. and items are turned on.

 

[WindMajor]

Did somebody say Mario Bros.?!

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Here we go again.

 

[-LzR-]

Wow, I have to make sure I never attend a tourney in Germany D:
I almost had a heart attack reading that!

 

[WindMajor]

Wait is this Mario Bros. talk some sort of false alarm or something???


Man what bull****, getting me all hyped for nothin'.........

 

[Grim Tuesday]

We can talk about it again, just got to make sure it stays civil.

And only if you
a) Have something new to bring to the table
b) Aren't satisfied with the result of the last debate and can explain why in depth.

I'll help out with the debate on the anti-ban side if you start it off

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Wow, I have to make sure I never attend a tourney in Germany D:
I almost had a heart attack reading that!

"Aber doch du hast schon was bewirkt
ich hab PS2 und Frigate"

I asked the TO "Didn't my talking to you do anything?"
His answer: "It did; I originally wanted to ban PS2 and Frigate".

...FML.

EDIT: AND NO WE ARE NOT STARTING WITH THE ****ING MARIO BROS DISCUSSION AGAIN. THAT **** IS OVER.

 

[WindMajor]

EDIT: AND NO WE ARE NOT STARTING WITH THE ****ING MARIO BROS DISCUSSION AGAIN. THAT **** IS OVER.

This makes me want to discuss Mario Bros. again.

It's the ONLY stage in the game that I actually enjoy defending.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

FML.

[collapse=Creme De La Creme stagelist]Starter Stages
• Battlefield
• Final Destination
• Lylat Cruise
• Smashville
• Yoshi’s Island (Brawl)

Counter-Pick Stages
• Castle Siege
• Delfino Plaza
• Frigate Orpheon
• Halberd
• Rainbow Cruise
• Pokemon Stadium 1[/collapse]

The TOs ignored any complaints from people like me (for once I'm not alone here), linkinhand, and yikarur and simply stated "PS2 is gay, I don't like it, so it'll stay banned". Not the end of the world, right? It's a 50-man regional... fairly big deal, but whatevs, we can deal...

[collapse=GOD DAMMIT GERMANY]
Starter Stages
• Battlefield
• Final Destination
• Smashville

Counter-Pick Stages
• Castle Siege
• Delfino Plaza
• Frigate Orpheon
• Halberd
• Lylat Cruise
• Pokémon Stadium 1
• Pokémon Stadium 2
• Yoshi’s Island (Brawl)[/collapse]

Akuma, xDD-Master, if you namesearch, WE HAVE TO TALK. In case you're wondering what's different... This stagelist has 1 stage ban, neither Brinstar nor Rainbow Cruise legal, and 3 starters. THREE STARTERS! YES, THOSE THREE! Which is disappointing because last night before he posted the ruleset, I spent like an hour chatting with him about stagelists, and I thought I had made some progress. Nope, guess not... And this is probably going to be upwards of 90 people, one of the largest german tournaments, BiB. FML. ****ing germany, just when you think you're making some progress... I HAVE GOT TO FIND A VENUE TO HOST AT!!!

I call it bad TOing imo, or rather just using their influence and bias over actually considering why they banned what they banned.

I can't think of a reason to ban PS2, I want to know why it is gone for them.

 

[CR4SH]

I can't think of a reason to ban PS2, I want to know why it is gone for them.

Same reason you cant CP trivial pursuit. "You play a pretty good MK, but I bet you don't know the capital of hungary."

Spoiler

budapest

Cping a new game instead of a new stage is no fun. **** that.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I call it bad TOing imo, or rather just using their influence and bias over actually considering why they banned what they banned.

I can't think of a reason to ban PS2, I want to know why it is gone for them.

"I don't like it" in the former case, in the latter case, he honestly thinks he's doing what's best for competition.

Same reason you cant CP trivial pursuit. "You play a pretty good MK, but I bet you don't know the capital of hungary."

Spoiler

budapest

Cping a new game instead of a new stage is no fun. **** that.

That's an absolutely horrible argument and completely and utterly wrong. I hope I don't have to tell you why.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Same reason you cant CP trivial pursuit. "You play a pretty good MK, but I bet you don't know the capital of hungary."

Spoiler

budapest

Cping a new game instead of a new stage is no fun. **** that.

I don't understand this.

Like do you mean it's been banned for so long that it should stay banned? If so, that seems like poor reasoning.

"I don't like it" in the former case, in the latter case, he honestly thinks he's doing what's best for competition.

The former is being thick headed, the former might be reasoned with more.

Either way, try and show why it's fine.

Heck a Kirby CP'd it against me last weekend and I didn't have any problems with it.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

The latter I've tried... and tbh I think I'm getting somewhere. I'm certainly not unloading the whole appeal to results/please legalize such and such schtick, but the starter list is being seriously reevaluated. Somehow it's very hard to argue with him because I'm never sure how much is just theoretical mental masturbation and what is actually really to do with the tournament. Like we just jumped into "let's strike the whole stagelist, this is what's wrong with 4-5-1 striking". WTF?!?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Same reason you cant CP trivial pursuit. "You play a pretty good MK, but I bet you don't know the capital of hungary."

Spoiler

budapest

Cping a new game instead of a new stage is no fun. **** that.

It's obviously not a different game because it's on the same disc >_>

 

[Tesh]

It's obviously not a different game because it's on the same disc >_>

Homerun Contest, Coin Launcher, 8 classic demos.

Checkmate.

 

[Ghostbone]

Homerun Contest, Coin Launcher, 8 classic demos.

Checkmate.

lol
I'd love to counter-pick someone to f-zero

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Homerun Contest, Coin Launcher, 8 classic demos.

Checkmate.

Checkmate? They are the same game as well. I call it Super Smash Brothers Brawl.

 

[Ghostbone]

Checkmate? They are the same game as well. I call it Super Smash Brothers Brawl.

The point is we don't test skills in those areas, even though they are in the game.
So you can't justify PS2 being legal just because it's in the game.
(though it's not on the person wanting a stage legal to provide proof that it should be legal anyway)

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I know Ghost, I was just making a bad semantics joke.

 

[-LzR-]

We will be having a tournament alongside a Melee tournament. Some big names like Armada are coming along too. Because of the large amount of Melee players, we decided to drop stages like Norfair and Green Greens from our stagelist.
Bad TO? Smart decision?

 

[Loota]

I don't know if the majority still likes it since Melee has boiled down to, like, six stages but that isn't my concern anymore :>

Pictochat is only legal because we all love those darn cute missiles.

 

[-LzR-]

Yes, but I really think it's a great idea to not force Melee players to play in Green Greens, it would be craaaazyyy.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

We will be having a tournament alongside a Melee tournament. Some big names like Armada are coming along too. Because of the large amount of Melee players, we decided to drop stages like Norfair and Green Greens from our stagelist.
Bad TO? Smart decision?

Bad choice, IMO. Like, are you sure that they wouldn't come if you had the stages legal? What are their main complaints? Have they even complained or are you assuming?

 

[Loota]

They will come no matter what. Still even I prefer keeping those two stages out since they are a bit questionable and borderline bannable. It's not just because of the Melee-players, majority of us prefer them being banned although it's not an impossible idea to keep them legal.

This is what I proposed:

Neutrals
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
Lylat Cruise
Pokémon Stadium
Castle Siege

Counterpicks
Delfino Plaza
Halberd
Frigate Orpheon
Brinstar
Rainbow Ride
Pokémon Stadium 2
Pictochat

By no means I believe that this list is the most fair but I think we'll be using this with stage striking.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Why not throw DP and PS2 into the starter list? Also, no PTAD?!? Come on, I thought finland was like the only place that stage was still legal.

That said, in general, if you feel like catering to them, that's your choice... I wouldn't support it, personally, if they'll come no matter what, but whatevs.

 

[Loota]

Lol, myself I really like PTAD but couldn't imagine myself playing it in a tournament :D I know that it's not like it should definitely be banned but I'd personally keep it so.

PS2 and DP could definitely move to the starters list. I didn't really put that deep thoughts into the stage list as it was meant to be merely a suggestion.

Nobody watched me being owned in Pictochat five posts ago ;-;

 

[Tesh]

PS2 seems way more "neutral" than Castle Seige to me.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I do not support pictochat. At all.

 

[-LzR-]

Pictochat is really borderline, but I think it's very supported here so it's smart to keep it.
I think GG should be banned, but I wasn't agreed on and it turned into a flamefest of some kind.
I really think PS2 should be a starter. It's one of the best ones out there. It could like replace FD or something or we could add both PS2 and Frigate into starters. I don't see a problem with 9 starters, so far it has worked incredibly well.

 

[BSP]

BPC I feel bad for you. I saw that 3 stage starter list.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

It's not even that uncommon. This isn't the first tournament to have a 3-stage starter system. At least the host is considering something more like BF/SV/LC or BF/SV/DP, rather than FD/SV/BF

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Okay I seem to have reached an impasse here...

Basically, this TO thinks that non-random moving elements still bring randomness into play due to the "random" nature of the fighting... For example, on japes, falco CG->spike into the klap-trap would count as "random" because the klaptrap is not a constant feature. I don't really know how to argue against it. Anyone want to help me?

 

[Life]

Smashville platform.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Okay I seem to have reached an impasse here...

Basically, this TO thinks that non-random moving elements still bring randomness into play due to the "random" nature of the fighting... For example, on japes, falco CG->spike into the klap-trap would count as "random" because the klaptrap is not a constant feature. I don't really know how to argue against it. Anyone want to help me?

He's wrong, it's a predictable pattern that doesn't force true randomness. At least if that is why he is arguing for japes to be gone, I'd argue that one gone for different reasons.

Cruise on the other hand he doesn't have an argument against for being random.

If random is his reasoning, then he should ban Smashville, Yoshi Island, PS1, Frigate and Halberd.

Because those are not static, and for some are more random than Japes.

I'm more leaning to ban japes, but not for the reasoning he gave.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

No, he's not arguing for it to be banned. That was just his example. It's his explanatory philosophy as to why BF and FD are the ideal competitive stages. I'd also just come out and say, "You're wrong", but that doesn't really help me at all, because he's sure his point is valid, and I'm not sure it isn't.

 

[WindMajor]

Tell him that under his philosophy, the only random thing that's happening is what your opponent is doing. Then tell him that he should ban the opponent from the game since he's random.

 

[Tesh]

That type of "random" is the type of thing people don't understand or put effort into understanding. Kind of like mid level players saying "lol random tech" . Your TO might just be bad at the game or trying to cater to bad players. Its not uncompetitive to have dynamic events help or hurt player SIMPLY because they weren't inteligent enough to plan for them.

Japes is as predictable as SV. Just as you might hold your opponent on japes for a second or two, waiting for the correct moment to spike them into the croc, you might wait for the platform on SV to avoid grab releases. They are both of a VERY simple timer.

I don't see how you can argue a philosophy to him though. He thinks static is better than dynamic for competition. You can't really logic your way past a core belief.