Veril
Frame Savant
This is the most important and significant mechanics change we can feasibly make at this point. It is extremely positive in regards to increasing the pace of matches. This is good for tournaments, makes the game more exciting to watch, and it actually works out really well for balancing specific characters.
Lowering KO% across stages other than Warioware is the best thing we can do for B+ balance-wise and just... fun-wise. Its the last thing really preventing B+ from staying fast-paced throughout a whole match. Patient, defensive players with good DI will survive to ludicrous % if they play safely enough to avoid death combos and don't get edgeguarded (and some characters are near impossible to edgeguard effectively for the majority of the cast) the range in which you can land KO moves (unless you're Ganon or Bowser, )... or really I don't think we should lower the % much, but survivability is ridiculous as is.
A huge benefit of this is allowing me to indirectly tone-down Lucario, without actually nerfing him in any way. The game wouldn't devolve into campfests high% last stock cause nobody had killing true combos off anything at that %... it is a final adjustment to risk vs. reward.
tl;dr?: needs to happen.
Discuss.
Lowering KO% across stages other than Warioware is the best thing we can do for B+ balance-wise and just... fun-wise. Its the last thing really preventing B+ from staying fast-paced throughout a whole match. Patient, defensive players with good DI will survive to ludicrous % if they play safely enough to avoid death combos and don't get edgeguarded (and some characters are near impossible to edgeguard effectively for the majority of the cast) the range in which you can land KO moves (unless you're Ganon or Bowser, )... or really I don't think we should lower the % much, but survivability is ridiculous as is.
A huge benefit of this is allowing me to indirectly tone-down Lucario, without actually nerfing him in any way. The game wouldn't devolve into campfests high% last stock cause nobody had killing true combos off anything at that %... it is a final adjustment to risk vs. reward.
tl;dr?: needs to happen.
Discuss.
Wondering if anybody would agree with me on this one:
A near global reduction of stage boundaries.
The biggest complaint I have gotten from people I've gotten to play B+ is that its still feeling slow, and the biggest reason they give to that is how characters still live to vBrawl percents. My DDD regularly hits around 200% before he finally dies, even my G&W can push towards 150 or 160 which is just wrong considering he has no bucket braking. Few characters have early finishers that they can actually land on a competent opponent. Seems like unless your going up against somebody like Falcon, Jiggly or Wario that you're going to live for a long time.
I was playing on AMKalmar's YI:M and the tight boundaries there had me dying around 110-120, and it was a beautiful thing to have stocks go that quickly for a change. Take a stage like FD where even mid weight characters can push their life to like 180 and reduce that towards 150. I personally think the game would benefit a lot from reducing how long people live, and the complaints I hear agree with that statement.
If the old boundary adjustments are going to be taken out, I think it would do wonders for the game to have other stages looked at as well. Seems like the least intrusive way to inject a big speed boost into the game.
I agree.
10agreements
Couldn't have said it better myself.
I agree with Plum. The only boundary increase that should be kept in is the one for Wario Ware. The rest should be removed for sure. Maybe bring in the boundaries on some of the stages (WiFi)
Corneria isn't a competitive stage. I don't know why we'd tweak stages that will be banned regardless.
The boundary increases can certainly go, except Warioware (as has already been stated).
nobody takes corneria seriously anyways...if we want to be serious about it, we should use something like this somewhere down rhe line:
and we can just throw in a size increase to the ww pac along with jumpable walls and call it a day...give me some numbers (x% increase, y units increase, w/e) and i can whip something up real quick
Death Boundary Modifier as it currently is in Brawl+ (unless any of you "pulled a fast one" since GSH2):
065A9000 00000020
1CF0F330 CD000000 WarioWare
2DF0F1A0 E6000000 Green Greens
30F0F030 FD000000 Corneria
37F00000 000D0000 Online Practice
So let's see...Corneria is banned, Online Practice is considered un-salvageable AND the border modifications in the end only added to the suckage. IDK about Green Greens, and honestly we should adopt the fixed WarioWare .pac that allowed wall jumps on the lower portion of the stage (and apply the boundaries in the .pac).
For the curious, here are B+ WarioWare's current boundaries (according to the code):
Left Boundary: F33 (3891)
Right Boundary: 0CD (205)
Rest assured this makes sense! Not really...
if we assume that each block added by the code = 20, then it would make sense I guess.
3891/20 = 194.55 added to original left boundary
205/20 = 10.25 added to original right boundary
...yeah, still doesn't seem to add up huh?
so...it seems to actually affect a lot less stages than we thought...maybe we should decrease the death boundaries anyway? Let's be honest here, people still die way too late even if the DBM isn't the culprit. It's pretty obvious that hitstun is partly to blame, but we're apparently content with that (or at least I am) and so let's shift our focus to the original stages' boundaries.
School time kids!
The way the code works works is it assigns four 3-digit integers. Remember, integers of a given variable size in hex always function like this: the first half of the possible values are positive, the second half are negative, and count from the opposite of the highest positive value back to 0. Hence, for a 3 digit integer, 7FF (2047) is the largest value you can have, 800 (-2047) is the smallest, and FFF = -1. These integers are measured from the center of the screen. What they correspond to I'm not entirely sure, but WW's sides measure positive and negative 205 from the middle. I suppose that it's feasible to assume they're the same units as in PSA, because 20.5 stage builder blocks seems a reasonable comparison.
If Brawlbox can edit these distances directly, I'm all for modding up a bunch of replacement pacs for the stages that need it.
i think its safe to assume they're the same units, WW's death boundaries are
by defaultCode:(-170,180) (170,180) (-170,-104) (170,-104)
Nevermind about the stage boundary adjustments, they only affect warioware and unimportant stages. The difference between KO% for Jiggs and the other light characters isn't really that great, especially with the removal of (most) momentum canceling (which notably helped MK and GW) and improvement in her FF. She's still really light, but not to the extent that altering the stage boundaries slightly will hurt her significantly as a character. It'll be a lot more significant for Lucario and defensive-campy playstyles (which is a good thing).
We should try reducing the boundaries by 5-10% on the boundaries of FD/BF/SV and keep PSII and WW as is.
Yes, the most I would decrease stage boundaries by is ~10% (15% would be pushing it) of their current value. So a move that currently won't kill to 180 will kill at 172, and a move that kills at say... 30 would KO @ ~27.