PlateProp
Smash Master
I'm too poor
LTC3 plz
LTC3 plz
-
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Squirtle Squad (General Disc.)
- Thread starter McNinja
- Start date
~Dad~
part time gay dad
Fun fact: I am terrible at this game.
PlateProp
Smash Master
Ftfy
Jamwa
Smash Champion
I can't even play squirtle cos ppl just leave the setup if i pick him
PlateProp
Smash Master
So bad you're good
Sir Skaro
Smash Apprentice
Next. Level.
RedGamer
Smash Ace
Jamwa
Smash Champion
i thought it was a LOT less than that.
squirtle's withdraw wont go through things like sonic's down-b at like 12 or 13 percent
squirtle's withdraw wont go through things like sonic's down-b at like 12 or 13 percent
Last edited:
Zwarm
Smash Hero
I got 5th at a local today going all Squirtle
Yaaaay progress
Yaaaay progress
RedGamer
Smash Ace
Mind you, sonics down b hitbox is multi hitting. That could be a factor.
~Dad~
part time gay dad
Falco dair will **** side b up lol
dirtboy345
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2010
- Messages
- 715
Hello all, first time posting in a squirtle discussion, I've been going to tournaments since late may now, been pretty much only Squirtle for a few months now and would like some advice. Here's a video from last weekend, any tips I can get other than the obvious don't withdraw into standing opponent etc.? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_a_lcjszww&feature=youtu.be
Also how do you shell shift into forward facing withdraw? I know you could hydropivot it but that's pretty difficult to do mid game, I've watched a couple of your videos ~Dad~ and I've seen you use it.
Also how do you shell shift into forward facing withdraw? I know you could hydropivot it but that's pretty difficult to do mid game, I've watched a couple of your videos ~Dad~ and I've seen you use it.
Cloudburst
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2014
- Messages
- 53
Good job man. There were 3 things I noticed:
First of all, try to DI out of Fox's upair. It's not super difficult, and will extend your stock.
Secondly, when you land a withdraw on medium-% opponents, most of the time you can SHFFL fair to knock them offstage, and then edgeguard.
Thirdly, against spacies Squirtle has a downsmash techchase, so if you hydroplane a downsmash and hit them, you can wavedash where you think they'll tech and downsmash again, and with good reads you can get a lot of % on them.
Other than that, get hyped for 3.5 I guess because it looks like they've at least changed the base knockback on Squirtle's fair, and maybe changed other things as well.
First of all, try to DI out of Fox's upair. It's not super difficult, and will extend your stock.
Secondly, when you land a withdraw on medium-% opponents, most of the time you can SHFFL fair to knock them offstage, and then edgeguard.
Thirdly, against spacies Squirtle has a downsmash techchase, so if you hydroplane a downsmash and hit them, you can wavedash where you think they'll tech and downsmash again, and with good reads you can get a lot of % on them.
Other than that, get hyped for 3.5 I guess because it looks like they've at least changed the base knockback on Squirtle's fair, and maybe changed other things as well.
dirtboy345
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2010
- Messages
- 715
Thanks, I try to sdi up air but it can be difficult, withdraw fair is actually some of my bread and butter but ginger seemed to DI it or something? I don't know maybe it's foxes weight, also watching that did make me realize I should dsmash a lot more. Also you said fair is changed in 3.5, for better or worse?
Cloudburst
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2014
- Messages
- 53
Not sure. I'm going off of a 3 second clip from the 3.5 trailer with a Squirtle vs Ganondorf. At like 0:34 Squirtle hits Ganon with what I would believe to be a sweetspot fair, and Ganon just flinches and barely moves.
Most of the people I've talked to think that fairs Base Knockback is lower, but that to compensate for that his scaling knockback has been buffed. I think that this will overall benefit Squirtle, and that his kill options that end in a fair will be stronger for it. We might even get more combo options with fair, but we'll just have to wait and see!
Most of the people I've talked to think that fairs Base Knockback is lower, but that to compensate for that his scaling knockback has been buffed. I think that this will overall benefit Squirtle, and that his kill options that end in a fair will be stronger for it. We might even get more combo options with fair, but we'll just have to wait and see!
Zwarm
Smash Hero
I'm really excited for you guys to try out 3.5 Squirtle
Cloudburst
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2014
- Messages
- 53
Zwarm will I have to edit my avatar to add more technology?
Cloudburst
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2014
- Messages
- 53
WOAH WOAH WOAH ZWARM: Can we waveland bubble now?
JCOnyx
Smash Ace
Also, if you're going to cancel your withdraw early try jumping before dong so a couple times. It's generally safer unless you're going offstage and your opponent can easily set up for an edgeguard. Of course this is only if the ability to do so is kept in 3.5. Ledge canceling an Aqua Jet on a platform is the absolute safest way to do so but... yeah.
If this is for real that would be a great buff. The massive lag after using an aerial bubble has always felt a little wonky to me, it'd be great if they increased the IASA frames on it.
Shin F.
Smash Master
Stayed up late? We can't give you 3.5 yet, but we know of something else that you would really like pic.twitter.com/myg1PqJ3Gn
— Project M (@ProjectMGame) November 14, 2014
I wonder what his new FS is gonna be? :O
Warzenschwein
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
- Messages
- 331
R.I.P Aquajet
Zwarm
Smash Hero
Bro, Aqua Jet is so much better now. You guys don't even know yet.
Priority Fire
Smash Rookie
Landing an Aquajet feels like landing a Rest.... is it really that much better? :o
Zwarm
Smash Hero
Yes, because you can combo into it, and it kills. And landing it doesn't mean certain death like the uncontrollable earlier versions of AJ. Plus there's no sour spot anymore. And on top of all of that, it fits into the design of 3.5, it's not a recovery move anymore, but it still has a manual trigger.
It's nothing but good.
I will defend this change forever.
It's nothing but good.
I will defend this change forever.
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Bones0
Smash Legend
[collapse="3.5 Change List"]
Tilts
-Up Tilt
--IASA moved up, frame 22 -> 18.
--Hitboxes cleaned up to match animation closer. Squirtle hops slightly higher to match previous reach.
--Damage and knockback reduced. Damage 7 -> 6, KBG 110 -> 100.
--Trajectory tweaked slightly, angle 89 -> 86.
-Crawl Tilt
--Hitbox reduced.
Smashes
-Forward Smash
--Shell-shift momentum glitch corrected.
-Up Smash
--Cleaned up pillar hitboxes to match graphics closer.
-Down Smash
--Hitboxes reduced to match animation and graphics closer.
Aerials
-Down Aerials
--Hitboxes cleaned up to match animation closer.
--Final hit trajectory lowered, angle 80 -> 67.
Specials
-Forward Special (Withdraw)
--Removed Turnaround
--Removed Jump
--Homogenized smash and tilt speeds.
--Withdraw maximum grounded duration reduced, 140 -> 60 frames.
--Withdraw cancel can now grab ledges.
--Aqua Jet
---Aqua Jet can only be initiated by making contact with a target during startup (checked on frame 5) and holding B.
---Aqua Jet is now fully steerable.
---Aqua Jet height gain slightly increased.
---Removed Aqua Jet startup, frame 3 -> 1. Weak hitbox lingers +4 frames.
---Aqua Jet hitboxes enlarged.
-Up Special (Waterfall)
--Grounded startup reduced by 5 frames.
--Endlag increased by 5 frames. Increases reverse ledgegrab window.
--Waterfall angling disabled after Squirtle reaches the apex.
--Final hit trajectory raised, angle 67 -> 83.
--Linking hitbox now repeats every five frames until final hit. Damage of linking hits reduced to 1.
--Linking hitbox knockback tweaked. 100/100 weight dependent set knockback changed to 110/100 and 80/100 weight dependent set knockback.
--Hitlag and SDI modifiers of non-linking hitboxes homogenized to 1. Linking hits have 0.8X hitlag, and 0.7/1X SDI.
-Down Special (Bubble)
--Aerial stall increased by 45% and limited to once per airtime.
--Aerial Bubble hitboxes raised and cleaned up to match graphics closer.
--Trajectory of aerial Bubble raised as hitbox travels. Angle 0 -> 0/25/361.
Others
-Air mobility increased and short hop height decreased.
--Short hop Vertical Momentum 2.15 -> 2
--Air mobility A 0.04 -> 0.08
--Air mobility b 0.04 -> 0.02
-Slightly reduced tech movement during first bounce.
-Pivot
--Light armor removed.
--Hitbox reduced.
--Active frames trimmed, 6-12 -> 9-12.
-Jab1
--Jab 2 interrupt starts 1 frame sooner.
-Jab2
--Jab 3 interrupt starts 2 frames sooner.
-Added Final Smash
[/collapse]
I haven't actually played 3.5 yet, so I may be mistaken on some things, but it seems like a LOT of nerfs. Stuff that stuck out the most:
- Utilt is faster, but weaker, and may have worse priority from below depending on how the "hop" animation changed. It was already so bad vs. CCing so I'm not sure the extra speed was worth it.
- Last hit of dair has a lower KB angle, but not sure if that will really help or hurt followup potential.
- Withdraw is basically gone. Can't jump, turn, or even go very far. It's gonna be way too risky to use unless you tech trap them in the corner or on a plat, but at that point you probably have better options.
- Aqua Jet isn't a recovery move anymore. Seems comparable to Luigi's sweetspot up-B in that you have to be jacked up on the opponent, but it will be a solid KO move. Missing will be risky due to it resulting in a Withdraw. I'm curious how this will fair vs. shields, like whether it pokes or is safe if steered away from people after the hit.
- Waterfall startup reduced by 5 frames sounds huge. I am wondering what frame it would hit OoS. The KB angle makes it much more deadly as a KO move. Unsure if the hitbox changes will make it easier or harder to carry people into the last hitbox or not.
- Crawl attack, pivot, and dsmash all have smaller hitboxes.
- In addition to hitbox range, pivot lost armor and active frames... I'm confused as to why such a weak situational option got nerfed so hard.
- Not real clear on how Bubble's changes will affect usage.
Overall, this sounds like a lot of nerfs, but most of it is with things I would have considered kind of out of hand anyway (Withdraw, dsmash hitbox, etc). I guess what I'm mostly worried about is whether the rest of the cast has received similar nerfs. If Squirtle loses Withdraw, then idk why in the world Mewtwo would still be able to attack out of a Teleport (even if he needs a DJ to do so). Just read Wario can still jump during his side-B. lol That makes so much sense...
Tilts
-Up Tilt
--IASA moved up, frame 22 -> 18.
--Hitboxes cleaned up to match animation closer. Squirtle hops slightly higher to match previous reach.
--Damage and knockback reduced. Damage 7 -> 6, KBG 110 -> 100.
--Trajectory tweaked slightly, angle 89 -> 86.
-Crawl Tilt
--Hitbox reduced.
Smashes
-Forward Smash
--Shell-shift momentum glitch corrected.
-Up Smash
--Cleaned up pillar hitboxes to match graphics closer.
-Down Smash
--Hitboxes reduced to match animation and graphics closer.
Aerials
-Down Aerials
--Hitboxes cleaned up to match animation closer.
--Final hit trajectory lowered, angle 80 -> 67.
Specials
-Forward Special (Withdraw)
--Removed Turnaround
--Removed Jump
--Homogenized smash and tilt speeds.
--Withdraw maximum grounded duration reduced, 140 -> 60 frames.
--Withdraw cancel can now grab ledges.
--Aqua Jet
---Aqua Jet can only be initiated by making contact with a target during startup (checked on frame 5) and holding B.
---Aqua Jet is now fully steerable.
---Aqua Jet height gain slightly increased.
---Removed Aqua Jet startup, frame 3 -> 1. Weak hitbox lingers +4 frames.
---Aqua Jet hitboxes enlarged.
-Up Special (Waterfall)
--Grounded startup reduced by 5 frames.
--Endlag increased by 5 frames. Increases reverse ledgegrab window.
--Waterfall angling disabled after Squirtle reaches the apex.
--Final hit trajectory raised, angle 67 -> 83.
--Linking hitbox now repeats every five frames until final hit. Damage of linking hits reduced to 1.
--Linking hitbox knockback tweaked. 100/100 weight dependent set knockback changed to 110/100 and 80/100 weight dependent set knockback.
--Hitlag and SDI modifiers of non-linking hitboxes homogenized to 1. Linking hits have 0.8X hitlag, and 0.7/1X SDI.
-Down Special (Bubble)
--Aerial stall increased by 45% and limited to once per airtime.
--Aerial Bubble hitboxes raised and cleaned up to match graphics closer.
--Trajectory of aerial Bubble raised as hitbox travels. Angle 0 -> 0/25/361.
Others
-Air mobility increased and short hop height decreased.
--Short hop Vertical Momentum 2.15 -> 2
--Air mobility A 0.04 -> 0.08
--Air mobility b 0.04 -> 0.02
-Slightly reduced tech movement during first bounce.
-Pivot
--Light armor removed.
--Hitbox reduced.
--Active frames trimmed, 6-12 -> 9-12.
-Jab1
--Jab 2 interrupt starts 1 frame sooner.
-Jab2
--Jab 3 interrupt starts 2 frames sooner.
-Added Final Smash
[/collapse]
I haven't actually played 3.5 yet, so I may be mistaken on some things, but it seems like a LOT of nerfs. Stuff that stuck out the most:
- Utilt is faster, but weaker, and may have worse priority from below depending on how the "hop" animation changed. It was already so bad vs. CCing so I'm not sure the extra speed was worth it.
- Last hit of dair has a lower KB angle, but not sure if that will really help or hurt followup potential.
- Withdraw is basically gone. Can't jump, turn, or even go very far. It's gonna be way too risky to use unless you tech trap them in the corner or on a plat, but at that point you probably have better options.
- Aqua Jet isn't a recovery move anymore. Seems comparable to Luigi's sweetspot up-B in that you have to be jacked up on the opponent, but it will be a solid KO move. Missing will be risky due to it resulting in a Withdraw. I'm curious how this will fair vs. shields, like whether it pokes or is safe if steered away from people after the hit.
- Waterfall startup reduced by 5 frames sounds huge. I am wondering what frame it would hit OoS. The KB angle makes it much more deadly as a KO move. Unsure if the hitbox changes will make it easier or harder to carry people into the last hitbox or not.
- Crawl attack, pivot, and dsmash all have smaller hitboxes.
- In addition to hitbox range, pivot lost armor and active frames... I'm confused as to why such a weak situational option got nerfed so hard.
- Not real clear on how Bubble's changes will affect usage.
Overall, this sounds like a lot of nerfs, but most of it is with things I would have considered kind of out of hand anyway (Withdraw, dsmash hitbox, etc). I guess what I'm mostly worried about is whether the rest of the cast has received similar nerfs. If Squirtle loses Withdraw, then idk why in the world Mewtwo would still be able to attack out of a Teleport (even if he needs a DJ to do so). Just read Wario can still jump during his side-B. lol That makes so much sense...
Last edited:
Mr. Fabulous
Smash Cadet
Dude, I really don't get why this happened. Squirtle was already a bad character anyway. Why would they deliver all these nerfs?
MrDannyBlob
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2014
- Messages
- 5
Bubbles hitbox is smaller I think, I can't hit a grounded opponent at all with a full hop bubble like I used to be able to consistently hit with bubble, now I can only hit if I short hop. So I better learn to short hop now...
Last edited:
Jamwa
Smash Champion
Bubble's hitbox is higher than normal, not smaller. Basically it's better but harder to use.
The biggest thing I don't like about the change is the Ctilt nerf and the turn around hitbox, as you cant hit people holding ledge anymore
The second biggest thing is the removeal of shellshifted reverse fsmash being super slippery. can we even go under dreamland anymore (even though its not useful but w/e)
Zwarm teach us these aqua jet setups
The biggest thing I don't like about the change is the Ctilt nerf and the turn around hitbox, as you cant hit people holding ledge anymore
The second biggest thing is the removeal of shellshifted reverse fsmash being super slippery. can we even go under dreamland anymore (even though its not useful but w/e)
Zwarm teach us these aqua jet setups
Zwarm
Smash Hero
I'm gonna be streaming around 5CST, Ill show off Aqua Jet setups then
MrAzureKun
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2014
- Messages
- 46
Wish I could have seen this then.
I really wish we still had shell shifted forward smashes. Those were really fun and great tech for squirt.
I'm not a fan of the new withdraw/aquajet honestly. I liked how the old ones played in terms of play style.
Hopefully we'll see some squirtle buffs in the future.
I really wish we still had shell shifted forward smashes. Those were really fun and great tech for squirt.
I'm not a fan of the new withdraw/aquajet honestly. I liked how the old ones played in terms of play style.
Hopefully we'll see some squirtle buffs in the future.
Thetoymaker787
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2014
- Messages
- 50
Tacus can help or doing the jump outa shell shift to move really fast and get in close.What do I do against bowser? I have a hard time trying to get in without lots of bubble and/or grab/SS grab. And bowser can crawl through the SS hitbox so I can't SS -> grab/usmash
Thetoymaker787
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2014
- Messages
- 50
Yeah, and it was a cool technique to withdraw and bounce of stage when trying to recover then aqua jet onto the stage and hit them from behind. Most people just do not expect that
Thetoymaker787
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2014
- Messages
- 50
Ye
yeah I discover that on accident the other day. You can jump cancel it so it makes for great mind game. I like using it then just popping up and using back air.
Thetoymaker787
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2014
- Messages
- 50
I'm surprised they didn't buff that move in 3.5. Lol
TOO GOOD
PlateProp
Smash Master
It's a RHUS. Tacus is wrong.
Thetoymaker787
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2014
- Messages
- 50
Huh? I know squirtle pretty well but I'm bad with move names. I still call a meteor smash a spike:-p. what does RHUS stand for?
~Dad~
part time gay dad
lmao at the Squirtle boards today
Thetoymaker787
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2014
- Messages
- 50
I just made my account so I could complain about 3.5 no turn around in withdraw. But to post an example of how I play in 3.2 I had to make ten posts. So I posted a bunch of random junk. So yeah...
Mr. Fabulous
Smash Cadet
RHUS is Rever Hydroplane Upsmash.