Data Spy! - Ness Matchup Directory

PKBeam · Jun 13, 2015

you can't absorb his smashes. only AS and side-B.

Brendannn · Jun 14, 2015

yoshi8984 said:
Isn't it is Side-B (Force Palm) that can be absorbed? I'm pretty sure his Smashes can't be absorbed. o.o

my bad, i was saying you could reflect the aura sphere back with ness's fsmash n_n.

Burnt Ash · Jun 14, 2015

Is it too early to start talking about the Ness/Lucas match-up?

Noa. · Jun 14, 2015

Yes.

:|

I mean come on.

Burnt Ash · Jun 14, 2015

Yeah, kind of figured. Sorry about that. As a person who wants to main Ness and Lucas, I'm just excited to see how the match-up plays out

NocturnalQuill · Jun 15, 2015

I've been able to stomp every Ryu I've faced in For Glory. Can't tell if I have an advantage or they're just bad, but Ness seems to have superior priority

MintyBreeze · Jun 15, 2015

Have you been absorbing their Hadoukens with PSI Magnet?

Brendannn · Jun 15, 2015

NocturnalQuill said:
I've been able to stomp every Ryu I've faced in For Glory. Can't tell if I have an advantage or they're just bad, but Ness seems to have superior priority

even on day 1 its easy to tell that ness has all of the tools to beat ryu pretty convincingly. PKT off stage, great combo game, etc.

MintyBreeze · Jun 15, 2015

He hasn't even been out for a week yet, none of us have the experience to say that. Give him a chance.

NocturnalQuill · Jun 15, 2015

MintyBreeze said:
He hasn't even been out for a week yet, none of us have the experience to say that. Give him a chance.

It'll take time to fully explore the matchup, but from initial impressions, I feel like Ness has the edge

MintyBreeze · Jun 15, 2015

Now that's a little more reasonable. I feel like PSI Magnet could help against Hadoukens... Even though Hadoukens can easily be hit by your jab and negated useless anyways... Ryu is scary sometimes, though.

Meccs · Jun 16, 2015

I dont know if it will be in Ness' favor yet obviously, but I believe Ness will do better against Ryu than most of the rest of the cast.

Tikao · Jun 16, 2015

Ryu seems pretty strong if mastered, but ness seems to have the tools to deal with him.
It seems like Ryu can't use any of his hadoukens efficiently (especially with our psi-magnet getting buffed) and he seems to lack a solid initiation in this MU, so we should win the neutral game.
We have a solid combo game of our own and good killing options, so we should win the MU, unless he completely destroys us, when he got the momentum (which i doubt).

But only time will tell (insert more "seems" here)

Noa. · Jun 18, 2015

All right so I updated this thread.

New title.

New OP.

And new matchup to discuss!

It's time to discuss Luigi.

Please follow this link: http://smashboards.com/threads/ness-matchup-discussion-luigi.406784/

Disgaea D2 · Jun 19, 2015

Meccs said:
Hey so here's an excel sheet I made for the entire cast. Sorted first by the SWF Community Tier List then by alphabetical then by the matchup spread. This was quick and I'm sure there are a lot that are wrong (I'm second guessing a couple as I look back over it now, even), but it's just my hot take on Ness compared to everyone in the game. And I take back what I said about him only having three matchups, I think Shulk is a disadvantage too. (Stuff has probably changed from my post above) You don't have to count this stuff since it has .5s just wanted to do this for the hell of it.

View attachment 52087

As a G&W main, how is this MU even in Ness' favor? Sure Ness has combos out of dthrow and a kill throw but, G&W has good dthrow combo actions, good although laggy aerials if spaced well, and about 3 ways you can screw with Ness offstage when trying to recover (Bucket, Up B windbox part, and Fair/Bair Gimps). The MU could go in either way depending on the player.

ArnoHero · Jun 21, 2015

I've always thought the Ness - Rosa matchup was heavily in Rosa's favor. Probably (-2) which I really hate to say because I advocate Ness being one of the best characters in the game.

Ness' neutral game is diminished heavily beacuse of the body that sits inbetween the two characters.
Also it's worth mentioning that the Rosa DownB is so much more safe on gimping Ness' recovery. It's really the only matchup I fear. Rosa has so many tools that negate Ness' fundamentals.

Noa. · Jun 21, 2015

Rosa is a bad matchup for sure. But you can actually punish rosa pretty hard if you get in on her. You can combo her easily, and she gets edge guarded quite easily. Her dying to bthrow at like 90 is not helpful for her either. It's still a bad matchup, but a lot of ness mains feel that it's not that bad. I would say -2 or -1 is a suitable ratio for it.

Kodystri · Jun 23, 2015

I am changing my mind on a few MUs Going to make this chart again.

: (-1) (After fighting many Bowsers, i decide this isn't a good MU for Ness)

: (0)

: (0) (I honestly believe Ness does NOT win this MU)

: (1) Charizard can Anti-Air Ness pretty well and really covers Ness landing Options. BAN BATTLEFIELD AT ALL COSTS

: (0)

: (+2)

: (-1) (Even with the nerfs, he still has superior frame data to ours)

: (+2)

: (+1)

: (0) (This MU isn't all that bad once you get in)

: (0)

: (0) (If it wasn't for the fact we can gimp him and threaten with Back Throw, Fox would easily win this MU)

: (+1)

: (0)

: (+1)

: (+1) (Don't sleep on him...)

: (0)

: (+1)

: (0)

: (-2)

: (0)

: (+1)

: (+2)

: (+3)

: (0)

: 100 0 Ness always wins

: (0)

: (+1)

: (-1)

: (0)

: (-1)

: (-3) (I seriously think this MU is just horrible)

: (+1)

: (-2)

: (0)

: (-1)

: (+1)

: (0)

: (+2)

: (0)

: (+1)

: (+1)

I am leaving out the DLC characters for now...

Will write little things for all.

MintyBreeze · Jun 24, 2015

Kodystri said:
I am changing my mind on a few MUs Going to make this chart again.

: (1) Charizard can Anti-Air Ness pretty well and really covers Ness landing Options. BAN BATTLEFIELD AT ALL COSTS
: (+1)
: (+1) (Don't sleep on him...)
: (0)

: (-1)

Thank you very much for not skimping on Charizard, for one, as he's a very good character for being a heavyweight. Something I'd like to add is that PSI Magnet can absorb Flamethrower, although I'm not sure whether or not the Charizard can simply cancel the attack and punish you. But is it plus one, or minus one?

Why is Doctor Mario plus one? Sure, he's fairly slow, and has a worse recovery than Mario, but he can afford to be more defensive and gets more reward off of his moves. That, and I think his D-Air can contest with N-Air. His dash attack pops characters into the air at low-mid percents, too, somewhere where Ness definitely doesn't need to be. I think it should be even.

Thank you very, very much for putting Mac at a reasonable number. Sure, he can be walled out, but with Ness not being as spectacular on the ground as he is in the air, it's more difficult for him then you'd think.

Wait, why is the Mii Swordfighter even while the Brawler is plus 2? I would think the Brawler would have an easier time against Ness. Is it because of his lack of range?

I don't think R.O.B is a terrible match-up for Ness. Sure, he can be walled out by projectiles, but your aerials generally ourperform him, with the exception of N-Air. That, and lasers can be absorbed for health.

Pazx · Jun 24, 2015

hullo im actually a diddy main if you guys didn't already know that

Ness definitely has an advantage over Diddy (+1 imo but a case could be made for +2) in 1.0.8

@

MintyBreeze if Doc were to have an even matchup with a top 10ish character it would be because he has something very very specific going for him in that matchup. The best matchup specific tool he has for dealing with Ness is his side special which isn't great by any means, just something he can use more effectively on us than other characters at similar levels of viability. Ness's own edgeguarding means Doc doesn't outright beat us in the offstage/edgeguarding area anyway so I can't see this matchup being even unless we lose quite significantly to regular Mario...

... which we may very well do and is something that should be discussed further following NAKAT's loss to Ally. This matchup also gets much worse for us with customs on, sadly. I personally don't think we lose in default but the character's strengths aren't being respected enough.

Kodystri · Jun 24, 2015

MintyBreeze said:
Thank you very much for not skimping on Charizard, for one, as he's a very good character for being a heavyweight. Something I'd like to add is that PSI Magnet can absorb Flamethrower, although I'm not sure whether or not the Charizard can simply cancel the attack and punish you. But is it plus one, or minus one?

Why is Doctor Mario plus one? Sure, he's fairly slow, and has a worse recovery than Mario, but he can afford to be more defensive and gets more reward off of his moves. That, and I think his D-Air can contest with N-Air. His dash attack pops characters into the air at low-mid percents, too, somewhere where Ness definitely doesn't need to be. I think it should be even.

Thank you very, very much for putting Mac at a reasonable number. Sure, he can be walled out, but with Ness not being as spectacular on the ground as he is in the air, it's more difficult for him then you'd think.

Wait, why is the Mii Swordfighter even while the Brawler is plus 2? I would think the Brawler would have an easier time against Ness. Is it because of his lack of range?

I don't think R.O.B is a terrible match-up for Ness. Sure, he can be walled out by projectiles, but your aerials generally ourperform him, with the exception of N-Air. That, and lasers can be absorbed for health.

This is w/o customs

RON's Nair beats all of Ness's option with the exception of a tailed PK Thunder and a perfectly spaced Fair.

L9999 · Jun 26, 2015

My impressions so far:

Either even or slightly in Ness' favor. His mindgames and punish game are good. His appraoch is not that good but neither is Ness'. A little easy to gimp tho.

I find this guy to be a little easy. Just never approach. Ryu can't do anything about it. His range sucks and his hadoken is a bad projectile. Tatsumaki whatever is easy to intercept, just Nair it. Up close it's a pain, but with PK Thunder and PK Fire there is no reason to be near Ryu. His aerial mobility sucks and I find it easy to juggle him with Uair or doing Fair chains. His recovery is very gimpable. Tatsumaki Sepukku whatever is easily intercepted by PK Thunder. For Shoryuken, same as Luigi, snipe his second jump with an aerial and he is dead. And unlike Lugi, Ryu doesn't have cyclone for a second chance. He can't edgeguard that well either because his recovery is bad. He has Focus Punch and Fair tho. The only thing I find that Ryu is good at besides close combat is juggling Ness, but anybody can juggle Ness.

Even. Both can Rosalina gimp each other, so juggling each other, comboing each other, harrasing each other without being one sided. Both characters have mediocre approach and they can't abuse of their projectiles because magnet. Either one or the other wins by pure mindgames and punishes.

Kodystri · Jun 27, 2015

L9999 said:
My impressions so far:

Either even or slightly in Ness' favor. His mindgames and punish game are good. His appraoch is not that good but neither is Ness'. A little easy to gimp tho.
I find this guy to be a little easy. Just never approach. Ryu can't do anything about it. His range sucks and his hadoken is a bad projectile. Tatsumaki whatever is easy to intercept, just Nair it. Up close it's a pain, but with PK Thunder and PK Fire there is no reason to be near Ryu. His aerial mobility sucks and I find it easy to juggle him with Uair or doing Fair chains. His recovery is very gimpable. Tatsumaki Sepukku whatever is easily intercepted by PK Thunder. For Shoryuken, same as Luigi, snipe his second jump with an aerial and he is dead. And unlike Lugi, Ryu doesn't have cyclone for a second chance. He can't edgeguard that well either because his recovery is bad. He has Focus Punch and Fair tho. The only thing I find that Ryu is good at besides close combat is juggling Ness, but anybody can juggle Ness.
Even. Both can Rosalina gimp each other, so juggling each other, comboing each other, harrasing each other without being one sided. Both characters have mediocre approach and they can't abuse of their projectiles because magnet. Either one or the other wins by pure mindgames and punishes.

When does Ness have mediocre approach?

L9999 · Jun 27, 2015

Kodystri said:
When does Ness have mediocre approach?

His projectiles aren't safe and his range is meh. So does his speed.

Earthbound360 · Jun 27, 2015

There's no way Rosalina is Ness' worst matchup as long as Sonic exists.
Diddy is no where near advantageous, but I'm more willing to accept even now after the nerfs.
ROB is still positive for Ness IMO.
Luigi is getting worse.
Mega Man is no where near -2 lol. It's not great, but it's not that bad.

Luco · Jun 30, 2015

Sorry Minty but I have to agree with Mik! here. ROB is a large target that we don't really struggle with at far range (pick up his gyro, then stand on the opposite side of the stage and magnet. Literally nothing else he can do but approach), a character who's aerials are predictable and punishable, and his recovery is outright bad. It doesn't help that he's a big target that's actually susceptible to PK Fire and combo shenanigoats. He has Fair, his onstage close-range tools and a decent juggle game and that's about it, really. He doesn't edge-guard Ness very easily either if Ness is saving his DJ, and using PKT isn't a death sentence in this MU unlike Rosa/the other big Ness gimpers.

I could see it as a +1 MU, but I just don't believe it's even. Sorry buddy.

MintyBreeze · Jun 30, 2015

It's okay...

If I'm going to be honest, I'm a little sure that R.O.B isn't one of my mains now. He just has a lot of trouble with certain match-ups because he's so bulky. Lots of what he has, does have a lot of utility - For example, N-Air is a good spacing tool a lot of the cast lack, his projectiles, obviously...
But when it comes to someone who can avoid his projectiles, which set-up for a lot of his options, then that's when he has trouble. Ness probably is one of those characters. I'd still argue that it's only slightly in Ness' favor, but oh well.

Luco · Jun 30, 2015

it's okay to main a character that has flaws, even glaring ones, or characters that struggle in certain match-ups. And ROB is a high tier character! Don't worry too much and you'll be fine I'm sure.

And it may be that it's only +1 in Ness' favour, I have no qualms with that rating, this is just something I do believe in. And, it's fine to disagree too. ^_^

Kodystri · Jun 30, 2015

I'm not going to lie, I have some bias because i may have problems with Zoners and Rosa, but I do not feel Ness wins vs Mega Man and Rosa. I Will take off -1 from both. Point of ROB still stands.

Dee-SmashinBoss · Jul 2, 2015

HEY

mains, the

boards are discussing Ness right now
Pop on over, and give us your thoughts pls

http://smashboards.com/threads/poke...-discussing-ness.384478/page-12#post-19562244

Pazx · Jul 6, 2015

5th out of 33 using

/

yesterday and I have some thoughts. I lost to another Ness player (4th) whom I played a bunch of friendlies with afterwards to explore some matchups.

Zero was right, we beat Fox pretty convincingly by abusing his biggest weakness (inability to deal with shielding opponents). Nair OoS is good but we already knew that. Ness also edgeguards Fox quite well between PKT and aerials. +1 imo but given that Fox is a top 5 character in my eyes this is a lot more significant than a +1 usually would be.

Ness beats ROB too, he's a character who suffers under pressure and Ness's forward air strings are too good. ROB struggles to land as well, having a big frame means PKT juggles are easy-mode. ROB can nair/fair/dair the head of the PKT to clank it away but most of these moves are slow to come out and as such it's difficult to time properly. If ROB chooses to reflect PKT he's basically going to eat an uair because arm rotor is such a slow move. PSI Magnet is the cherry on top of the cake, the only area ROB is particularly strong in this matchup is edgeguarding and that requires very good gyro control. His throw combos are underrated too, make sure you DI properly. +1

I stand by

beating

+1

Marcina probably deals with Ness rather well now. I think Ness typically struggles against disjoint (SWORDIES) and the buffs Marcina received are pretty legit (jab into fsmash isn't guaranteed but it is filthy). I was talking about how Ness struggles to get past swords and a friend said "why don't you just powershield it into your easy bake 40% combo" so maybe it's just a matchup I personally struggle in, but I think optimally played sword characters are very dangerous. I think Ness is also susceptible to grab release -> cresent slash, so these matchups aren't any better in customs. I'm not going to score this matchup yet but when we do get around to discussing it let's not write these characters off simply because they're not that good.

Falco is a slow, bad Fox that has slightly better tools for dealing with Ness. Ness still wins the matchup and probably for similar reasons that he wins the matchup vs. Fox, but Falco has far better grab reward and his ground game needs to be respected. His reflector is trash for escaping juggles and he doesn't have the fall speed to get past PKT and punish like Fox does but offstage both characters should be dying pretty easily. +1

PSI Magnet cancelling (as well as the buffs to PSI Magnet) are what keeps the matchup vs Luigi manageable. I think it's close to even, potentially leaning towards Luigi's favour.

Our resident Wario main thinks Ness wins that matchup but I didn't discuss it further.

Luco · Jul 6, 2015

Pretty much agreed for all of this. ^

Ness vs Marcina I used to think was a +1 MU, now I think it's even, and I don't want them to get any more significant buffs anymore.

MintyFlesh · Jul 8, 2015

I namesearch myself and find this ****

WHAT

MintyBreeze · Jul 8, 2015

Hi. Also, this is completely unnecessary. e-e

TriTails · Jul 8, 2015

Pow pow!

Us Luigi boards are discussing Ness this-a week!

Drop on by and share us your thoughts!

(BTW. I forgot that I wanted to give an opinion on Luigi vs Ness on your thread. Sorry, I'll do it later)

Noa. · Jul 10, 2015

It seems to me that the Luigi matchup discussion has mostly run its course. What matchup do you guys want to do next. Here are the matchups for characters in the top 12 that we haven't done yet.

Falcon
Fox
Mario
Yoshi
Pika
Zss

Luco · Jul 10, 2015

Would be interested to do

and ask their boards about it. :o

Pazx · Jul 10, 2015

seconding ZSS, also keen for

. To me, the rest are either uncommon(ish) characters or matchups that we have a distinct advantage in.

Earthbound360 · Jul 11, 2015

My votes are to Fox, then ZSS, then Pikachu in that order.

Dee-SmashinBoss · Jul 12, 2015

Excuse us Ness mains, but the

boards need your thoughts on this MU
http://smashboards.com/threads/poke...-discussing-ness.384478/page-12#post-19562244

Data Spy! - Ness Matchup Directory

Smash Lord

Smash Rookie

Smash Rookie

Smash Master

Smash Rookie

Smash Journeyman

Smash Journeyman

Smash Rookie

Smash Journeyman

Smash Journeyman

Smash Journeyman

@Meccs_

Smash Ace

Smash Master

Smash Cadet

Smash Rookie

Smash Master

the PK Spamming Lucas Main

Smash Journeyman

hoo hah

the PK Spamming Lucas Main

Smash Champion

the PK Spamming Lucas Main

Smash Champion

Smash Hero

Smash Hero

Smash Journeyman

Smash Hero

the PK Spamming Lucas Main

Smash Ace

hoo hah

Smash Hero

Smash Ace

Smash Journeyman

Smash Lord

Smash Master

Smash Hero

hoo hah

Smash Hero

Smash Ace

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