Data Spy! - Ness Matchup Directory

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

To all Ness' out there, the Rosalina sub-forum has a match-up discussion thread all set up to analyze Rosalina's match-up against Ness. Got anything to share for the Rosalina vs. Ness match-up? Then head to the following thread link...

http://smashboards.com/threads/409974/

In terms of the rules, be sure to go to the directory thread.

http://smashboards.com/threads/404194/

 

[ToastCunfirmed]

I would be interested in .

 

[ToastCunfirmed]

I would also like .

 

[Noa.]

Seems that ZSS will be our next matchup discussion. I'll make a thread now.

http://smashboards.com/threads/ness-matchup-discussion-zero-suit-samus.410113/

 

[Woohoo982]

I dont know if it will be in Ness' favor yet obviously, but I believe Ness will do better against Ryu than most of the rest of the cast.

Mr. Game and Watch needs to have a word with you.
No seriously though, I do believe we(G&W) win this matchup.

 

[Earthbound360]

Mr. Game and Watch needs to have a word with you.
No seriously though, I do believe we(G&W) win this matchup.

I swear to god, if I hear G&W mains just say it's because of the bucket gimp...

 

[WispBae]

Hello P K B O Y Z, the Doggy boards are discussing this MU, and would love your input on it!

Click on this picture of Ness to go straight to the thread!

 

[Kodystri]

Yeah Sonic totally destroys Ness as shown at Evo /s

In All Seriousness, FOW and Shaky did exceptionally well against Manny and 6wx respectively and I don't think the MU is as bad as you guys say.

 

[Noa.]

Yeah Sonic totally destroys Ness as shown at Evo /s

In All Seriousness, FOW and Shaky did exceptionally well against Manny and 6wx respectively and I don't think the MU is as bad as you guys say.

It is -1 on the matchup chart. :^)

I think Rosa is our worst matchup and should be moved to -2.

 

[Earthbound360]

I consider them both -2s.

 

[Kodystri]

It is -1 on the matchup chart. :^)

I think Rosa is our worst matchup and should be moved to -2.

Rosa is definitely our worse MU. Dabuz especially slaughters every Ness that comes around . Making me have to use Lucas. D:

 

[Noa.]

I definitely get the impression from most Ness mains that these days they feel that the Rosalina matchup is -2. I'm going to change the chart to reflect that.

 

[perroloco]

Hello guys, I'm a noob, dont usually post or anything but after watching EVO I started playing again (got hyped ) and last week there was a tourney which actually I was like the guy in charge of it in a convention in my City..

I had always thought I was like at the very least decent, but results proved otherwise, a lot of players were very skilled, or maybe I was just unskilled, didnt know the matchup.

The other time I read a matchup between Rodalina and Ness, that was in the Rosa subforum, they seems to have a lot of threads dedicated to discussing different Rosa matchups, but here on the Ness subforum we only have this topic? Or am I missing something?

I saw that there was other MU thread, ZSS vs Ness so I'm gonna check that..
I'm trying to make like a file with strategies, for example I most pretty bad to a Dr.Mario on ladder and after checking here it appears like Dr.Mario beats Ness in the air, so the guide I'm trying to make would cocer basic stuff like what to do against x character, stages to counterpixk (I still dont understand the different cons and pros of x stage, spwxially since a lot of members have different opinions about what stage favors Ness) I myself just prefer Final Destination lol

Tl:Dr want to make a short cuide including basic strategies against x character, stages to choose, but I'm not experienced, so would like some input.

Thanks in advance

 

[shrooby]

Helloooo, we're discussing the Ness MU in yonder Dedede forum:

http://smashboards.com/threads/read...n-currently-discussing-ness-7-27-7-31.395045/

Input from your guys' side would be appreciated.~

 

[Noa.]

Hello guys, I'm a noob, dont usually post or anything but after watching EVO I started playing again (got hyped ) and last week there was a tourney which actually I was like the guy in charge of it in a convention in my City..

I had always thought I was like at the very least decent, but results proved otherwise, a lot of players were very skilled, or maybe I was just unskilled, didnt know the matchup.

The other time I read a matchup between Rodalina and Ness, that was in the Rosa subforum, they seems to have a lot of threads dedicated to discussing different Rosa matchups, but here on the Ness subforum we only have this topic? Or am I missing something?

I saw that there was other MU thread, ZSS vs Ness so I'm gonna check that..
I'm trying to make like a file with strategies, for example I most pretty bad to a Dr.Mario on ladder and after checking here it appears like Dr.Mario beats Ness in the air, so the guide I'm trying to make would cocer basic stuff like what to do against x character, stages to counterpixk (I still dont understand the different cons and pros of x stage, spwxially since a lot of members have different opinions about what stage favors Ness) I myself just prefer Final Destination lol

Tl:Dr want to make a short cuide including basic strategies against x character, stages to choose, but I'm not experienced, so would like some input.

Thanks in advance

We actually discussed Rosa a while ago in an old thread. Here's the link to the first post in the discussion:

http://smashboards.com/threads/ness-matchup-discussion-preliminary.381175/#post-18122884

And we are going quite slowly through all of the character matchups lol. It's a shame it's taking so long. I do feel like we should make a summary after we finish a discussion but they take quite a bit of work to do well on. Though I should start directing people to which stages to pick and ban. I'll open those up in the threads and add them to the OP after we reach a consensus.

 

[Kodystri]

I would like to change Fox to ÷1 in Ness's favor

 

[Brendannn]

Definitely change Fox to +1 in Ness's favor. Really the major thing that was keeping this matchup even was jab locking and with that gone I dont see a reason why Ness doesn't win this MU anymore.

 

[Luco]

... I thought so too, except jab jab Usmash is still a thing (even if the lock itself is gone) and apparently is now even easier. It might overall have been a buff for us but I think we should investigate it first.

 

[Kodystri]

Fox's Jab lock could easily do 60% to us. Now thats gone.

 

[Noa.]

If enough ness mains feel that way I'll change it. But the patch just came out to we maybe should wait a bit. Fox also has a faster blaster, and his shine is more useful for gimping. We don't know how those buffs will affect the matchup.

 

[yoshi8984]

I've always eaten them Foxes for breakfast tho

Real talk pre-patch I think it was 50-50, now I say 60-40 Ness since the main thing Ness HATES in this MU is now gone.

And I feel like if he's in range to Shine you he may as well just try the Fair spike instead lol.

But then again it's late at night for me so I'm probs not thinking clearly,but Shine has less lag than Fair (but I don't think the angle it sends you at is cringeworthy or game changing).

 

[Nabbitnator]

Greetings everyone.
The Peach forums are currently discussing the Peach vs Ness match up. We would like it if any one from here could take the time to gives us his or her thoughts about how the match goes for Ness. Thank you.

(Here ya'll go now you don't have to search for the forum.)
http://smashboards.com/threads/peac...nder-construction.373319/page-9#post-19818681

 

[Waael]

IMO

Diddy -1
Sheik -1
Captain Falcon +2
Mario +2
Ness -100
Sonic -2
Fox 0
Yoshi 0
Luigi 0
Rosalina 0 (bite me)
Zero Suit Samus +1
Pikachu +1

I'm going with what Mik wrote, but with Luigi being -1

 

[Kodystri]

Luigi is definitely -1

 

[Lochy]

I agree. Luigi is totally a -1!

 

[TOGOpuff]

wait how's Sonic a bad mu ? You can react pk fire every approach he has and punish accordingly ._.

 

[Brendannn]

wait how's Sonic a bad mu ? You can react pk fire every approach he has and punish accordingly ._.

1. he can just run up and shield pk fire and if he's caught he can up b or roll out almost every time
2. if sonic gets the lead he can run away and ness cant do anything about it because sonic can cover any approach option

 

[Woohoo982]

What would be the MU against our boy ?

 

[SpottedCerberus]

I swear to god, if I hear G&W mains just say it's because of the bucket gimp...

The bucket gimp is impracticable and unreliable. The windbox on up-b? Really easy to gimp Ness with that. I've heard u-air works too. I'm not sure how the MU goes overall, but G&W is really good at wrecking Ness's recovery.

... I thought so too, except jab jab Usmash is still a thing (even if the lock itself is gone) and apparently is now even easier. It might overall have been a buff for us but I think we should investigate it first.

I'm pretty sure that jab-jab-u-smash is just a high percent kill option. It's not all that great.

 

[yoshi8984]

I will agree Ness vs. Fox is +1 (around 55:45 but no more than 60:40 Ness' favor).

I know the MU inside out, I can provide a hell of a write up on it. It is my fave MU.

 

[Noa.]

I used to have difficulty with the Fox matchup. But then I learned that pk Fire destroys Fox's recovery. It helped me significantly.

 

[ElectricBlade]

Hello Ness boards! I'm not exactly repping the Roy boards i'm here on my own accord for how the matchup against Ness could go. I have a few questions

-What are Ness's main attacks in neutral, and are they disjointed?
-How do Disjoints affect Ness? Will they affect the matchup by any stretch?
-When offstage how do you avoid getting gimped by Pk thunder?
-What are Ness's landing options?
-What are Ness's options to get out of disadvantage?

Thank you to anyone that answers! Any help for this matchup is appreciated

 

[miniada]

Hey so here's an excel sheet I made for the entire cast. Sorted first by the SWF Community Tier List then by alphabetical then by the matchup spread. This was quick and I'm sure there are a lot that are wrong (I'm second guessing a couple as I look back over it now, even), but it's just my hot take on Ness compared to everyone in the game. And I take back what I said about him only having three matchups, I think Shulk is a disadvantage too. (Stuff has probably changed from my post above) You don't have to count this stuff since it has .5s just wanted to do this for the hell of it.


View attachment 52087

-2
0
+ 1
+ 2
+ 3
+ 4
this is coming very late consedering the patches so sorry about that

 

[miniada]

True, but Diddy's disadvantageous matchups are mostly just , maybe . I see no reason to see as more treathening than either of these matchups, and at worst Sheik or Luigi are 55-45, Ness is nowhere near this level against Diddy.

Did lose to when he was still the best charecter doing hooh hah and destroying tournaments

 

[franniested]

So I seem to have personal issues with mario apparently. And personally feel that no character has overpowers ness so much as to give them a -2

 

[franniested]

Exactly. I feel like the world is so misguided on the matchup >_>
And even if they have it at 50:50 instead of 70:30 (which was a metaphoric exaggeration), they're using offstage game as a method of making the matchup seem more in their favor than it actually is. I'm pretty sure Ness has an advantage against Greninja. I've played Techei a lot of have a pretty solid opinion on this. Greninja doesn't have the pressure tools to KEEP Ness off stage to the point where he's vulnerable.



I highly disagree. Ness has very poor keep out tools. PKF isn't a good projectile projectile, it's a good punish and combo starter projectile only. It's even IMO, maybe even a little more in Luigi's favor.

I main ness and second Luigi, and can say that ness does have a strong advantage over Luigi. Both are combo kings, and have projectiles that are possible approaches. Ness' keep out tools are by no means limited to pk fire. (Though it is absolutely a very good example of one.) Pk fire is plenty fast enough to punish a fireball being thrown, and psi magnet should render them somewhat useless anyways. Forward air is a great retreating "keep off" move, as well as bair. Ff bairs can push them away while approaching, or retreating. Bair can also cancel the fireball and hit the sad Luigi in on swipe. And lastly pk thunder is a great mix up to slow your fall and create space to prevent the approach after fireball. As much as I like playing Luigi, his arsenal is not well equipped against smart ness players.

 

[Noa.]

I main ness and second Luigi, and can say that ness does have a strong advantage over Luigi. Both are combo kings, and have projectiles that are possible approaches. Ness' keep out tools are by no means limited to pk fire. (Though it is absolutely a very good example of one.) Pk fire is plenty fast enough to punish a fireball being thrown, and psi magnet should render them somewhat useless anyways. Forward air is a great retreating "keep off" move, as well as bair. Ff bairs can push them away while approaching, or retreating. Bair can also cancel the fireball and hit the sad Luigi in on swipe. And lastly pk thunder is a great mix up to slow your fall and create space to prevent the approach after fireball. As much as I like playing Luigi, his arsenal is not well equipped against smart ness players.

PK Fire cannot punish a fireball on reaction. It is way to slow for that, and Luigi can just shield or jump over the PK fire. PK fire is too slow to make an effective zoning tool.

Ness can just magnet fireballs so they're not a problem for him really.

In neutral the problem with spamming bair and fair is that they both lose to a running usmash from Luigi cause he's usmash is invincible. Ness can't wall out Luigi particularly well at all. They both combo each other to hell. Luigi can kill Ness better than Ness can kill Luigi though. That's why it's slightly in his favor.

So I seem to have personal issues with mario apparently. And personally feel that no character has overpowers ness so much as to give them a -2

The only characters at this point most Ness players could be a -2 is Rosa and Sonic. And most would agree that only Rosa is a -2. Though it's a pretty solid one at that.

 

[franniested]

PK Fire cannot punish a fireball on reaction. It is way to slow for that, and Luigi can just shield or jump over the PK fire. PK fire is too slow to make an effective zoning tool.

Ness can just magnet fireballs so they're not a problem for him really.

In neutral the problem with spamming bair and fair is that they both lose to a running usmash from Luigi cause he's usmash is invincible. Ness can't wall out Luigi particularly well at all. They both combo each other to hell. Luigi can kill Ness better than Ness can kill Luigi though. That's why it's slightly in his favor.


The only characters at this point most Ness players could be a -2 is Rosa and Sonic. And most would agree that only Rosa is a -2. Though it's a pretty solid one at that.

I'd agree with it being too slow for a straight up reaction. I should have specified, the situations I was considering were more of a jumping pk fire situation. Of course he can shield it, but most projectiles are easily shielded to begin with.

As to the bairs and fairs, I am by no means suggesting to spam them. The up smash could be a problem, but hopefully an effective ness would be able to poke well with their bair, and retreat well with their fair.

Lastly, I may just be worse with Luigi, but kill power is the biggest problem I have with him. How do you figure he has a KO advantage over ness?
(My kills with ness are generally between 90-120%)

 

[Noa.]

I'd agree with it being too slow for a straight up reaction. I should have specified, the situations I was considering were more of a jumping pk fire situation. Of course he can shield it, but most projectiles are easily shielded to begin with.

As to the bairs and fairs, I am by no means suggesting to spam them. The up smash could be a problem, but hopefully an effective ness would be able to poke well with their bair, and retreat well with their fair.

Lastly, I may just be worse with Luigi, but kill power is the biggest problem I have with him. How do you figure he has a KO advantage over ness?
(My kills with ness are generally between 90-120%)

Ness will kill Luigi with bthrow at around 130 percent, and with uair at like 135.

Luigi kills ness at like 115 percent with dthrow to tornado, and 120 with Usmash. The difference is small but very meaningful in this matchup.

 

[franniested]

Ness will kill Luigi with bthrow at around 130 percent, and with uair at like 135.

Luigi kills ness at like 115 percent with dthrow to tornado, and 120 with Usmash. The difference is small but very meaningful in this matchup.

Would you not consider his bat or sweet-spot bair kill options? I'm not sure on what kills would come at usually for the bair, but a well read bat, or pk fire trap to bat can kill very early.
And bthrow, depending on stage position could very likely kill earlier.

Why are these any less viable?