Chiroz
Tier Lists? Foolish...
Well, this blew up. I'll do my best to respond to everything. OK, firstly, I'd like to point out that top-level competitive players can be wrong. Remember when Sonic was low-tier in Brawl? Or when Luigi was a terrible character in Smash 4? Or how about when Olimar was mid-tier in Brawl? When Dr. Mario was inferior to Mario in Melee? When Smash 64 as a whole was unbalanced? There are many, many more examples that escape me at the moment, and that's not even counting all of the incorrect, individual opinions that competitive players have had over the years. Top-level competitive players can be right, but they can also be dead wrong. Sometimes, popular opinion is correct, and sometimes it isn't. You can't say that one is always right and one is always wrong, because, simply put, the world doesn't work like that.
To answer your two questions, I suppose you're right. In Samus's case, I either roll away or sidestep, and, in Ganondorf's case, I punish him. Huh. I never thought about it like that. Still, I wish the two hits would link properly, since I would do the same thing to Mario, Luigi, Fox, Falco, Captain Falcon, and any number of other characters that I did to Samus, and yet their jabs link properly. It still feels like she's getting the short end of the stick.
Moving on, speed isn't everything. Mewtwo's set of aerials is almost definitely better than Samus's. Once again, Mewtwo's N-Air can be used to chew on shields and create a mobile hitbox, his F-Air combos into itself at low percentages and KO's at high percentages, his B-Air can create a "wall of pain" at certain percentages, his U-Air is a mediocre juggle move that can hit through the lip of certain stages, and his D-Air can KO, even without the meteor smash. Plus, I'm pretty sure that most of Mewtwo's aerials outrange Samus's. Samus's aerials, while not necessarily bad, simply don't approach that level of usefulness, regardless of how much faster they may be.
Furthermore, none of Samus's Smash Attacks even approach Mewtwo's in terms of power. They may not be quite as safe, but, then again, Smash Attacks don't define a character, and at least Mewtwo's can be used to get early KO's. As far as tilts go, Mewtwo's are also more useful than Samus's. Mewtwo's D-Tilt is an excellent combo tool, his F-Tilt becomes a KO move at higher percentages, and his U-Tilt has a disjointed hitbox and covers a broader area than Samus's.
Special Moves are another beast entirely, but I'll try my hardest. Shadow Ball is more powerful than Charge Shot, it's is much safer on shield, it can be charged in midair, and its utility extends beyond being a projectile, with Shadow Ball serving as a recovery tool. Plus, uncharged Shadow Balls are very useful. Charge Shot, however, charges faster, moves faster, and comes out faster. We could debate about which projectile is superior until the cows come home, but, for the sake of simplicity, I think we can agree that they're both excellent projectiles.
Teleport and Screw Attack are also debatable, seeing as Screw Attack excels at KO'ing, but isn't very good at recovering, while Teleport excels at recovering, but can't KO. However, seeing as Screw Attack is one of Samus's few KO options, whereas Mewtwo has a plethora of KO options, I would say that Teleport is better. Mewtwo gets a nice, lengthy recovery and a multitude to KO moves, while Samus has a mediocre recovery and a limited selection of KO moves. Plus,
@LIQUID12A did say that Mewtwo's N-Air was a more useful tool than Screw Attack, mostly due to the fact that Mewtwo's N-Air doesn't put him into helpless and because it can be spammed in the neutral game.
As for Confusion, I'd say that it's probably better than Missile. Super Missiles can't KO, even at ludicrous percentages, but they also deal too much knockback to be used to set up punishes. That said, they can be used to rack up damage and interrupt approaches. I'll give them that. However, I'd say that uncharged Shadow Balls are a better "weak projectile," since they can be used to interrupt approaches and set up punishes. Super Missiles beat them in terms of speed and initial damage, though. That's a tough one, but, despite our differing views, I think we could agree that, like fully charged Shadow Balls and Charge Shot, they're pretty close. Anyway, because of their similar levels of usefulness, Mewtwo basically gets an "extra move" on Samus. Confusion is very useful as a reflector, which, by the way, increases Shadow Ball's usefulness, since Mewtwo can throw it out with little fear of having it reflected back at him, and Confusion can be used to reset the game to neutral against most of the cast. Potentially, Confusion can also be used to set up a punish against inexperienced players. Oh, and it hits through shields and can serve as a third jump, too.
Next up is Disable and Bomb. OK, so Bomb can be used to stall in midair, just like Disable, and it also provides Samus with a limited degree of stage control. However, Disable, like Bomb, can be used to stall in midair, and it's an excellent punishing tool that can be used to set up early KO's and inflict powerful blows on opponents. Ultimately, I'm going to have to give this one to Disable because it's just an incredibly useful punishing tool, while I feel that Bomb's degree of stage control is just too limited to stack up to Disable.
I don't think we even need to compare Mewtwo's and Samus's throws. Mewtwo takes this one by long and far. I know I picked this whole thing apart, and I apologize for the long post, but, once I got started, I couldn't stop. Basically, I feel like Samus just falls short in too many areas. She has a mediocre recovery, limited KO power, questionable design choices, and, on top of all that, she has wonky hitboxes. Mewtwo, on the other hand, has a lengthy recovery, an excellent set of aerials, good KO power, and several miscellaneous tools, such as Confusion, which can reset the game to neutral, hit through shields, reflect projectiles, and potentially set up punishes, and Disable, which is a fantastic punishing tool. Essentially, I think that Mewtwo is better than Samus by too much in too many areas for Samus to outclass him. Neither of them are great, though; Samus is just worse. To reiterate a previous point of mine, Mewtwo is a cracked hammer, and Samus is splinters of wood. You can build a birdhouse with a cracked hammer, but good luck doing that with wood splinters.
Popular opinion is formed on first impressions and overall sheepish behavior whereas profesional experience is based on research and understanding, theorycrafting and testing.
You are literally saying: "Scientists aren't always right and you saying they are is wrong. Sometimes completely uneducated people are right, sometimes Scientists are right, you shouldn't tell me which to believe"........
As I said, don't blindly believe pros opinions but between pros and popular opinions most often than not pros will know more. If you point out popular opinion polls I'll point out pros which are much more reliable.
Also almost 100% of those examples were examples of both pros and popular opinions (moreso popular opinions than pros). Do you have any example where popular opinion has been right but pros have said otherwise and later on proven wrong?
Ganondorf has more range and kill power than Falcon, his specials are also better in terms of kill power and priority and their effects and safety, doesn't make him higher tier than Falcon.
Again this is why I am not discussing who'se better, you guys compare Mewtwo and Samus in a bubble. You compare how one move does against the other instead of actually comparing options in the game in specific important matchups.
Comparing in a bubble or a Mewtwo vs Samus matchup won't really help.
There are also the things like having a jab 2 which aren't immediately obvious and most popular opinion is that "it's bad". I've had people say that Mewtwo N-Air is bad because opponents can easily DI out of, yet players who play Mewtwo understand that this allows us to get true combos on Fast Fall (if we can ever figure out why and how they drop on different sides) and also allows us to gimp characters much easier.
It's easier to see something and classify it as bad than it is to analyze it and understand it. Again, Samus Jab 2 as a reference.
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