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[Metros]

In my opinion, Mewtwo, based on what we know about him right now, is low-tier, but that doesn't mean he's bad. Smash 4 is a game filled with above-average characters, so when an average character, such as Mewtwo, gets added, they appear to be bad. Of course, he's not bad on his own, like, say, Kirby in Melee, but relative to the rest of the cast, he comes off as subpar. As I said before, Mewtwo is like Bill Nye in a room full of Isaac Newtons. He's perfectly fine on his own, but compared to his peers, he pales a little bit. Essentially, I feel like this is a "If everyone is [blank], then nobody is [blank]" situation. In this case, everyone in Smash 4 is above-average, and as a result, "above-average" becomes the new "average." So, also as a result, when a truly average character like Mewtwo gets added, they appear to be subpar. It's all relative, you know? In several regards, I think ZeRo is correct. Mewtwo may not be quite as bad as people say, but he's not on par with the rest of Smash 4.

However, once again, I feel like there's something about Mewtwo that hasn't been completely discovered yet. Once his potential is fully realized, I think Mewtwo will make a small jump on the tier list, but until that happens, I feel like some buffs would be greatly beneficial.

Also, I'll be honest here, I think you might be overreacting a little bit. Just because someone has an opinion that differs from our own doesn't mean that they don't deserve Mewtwo. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, however misinformed we may think they are, and I don't think it's right to say that they don't deserve something simply because their opinion happens to clash with our own. Please don't take this the wrong way; my intention isn't to offend you. I'm just saying that taking something away from a person on the basis that their opinion is "wrong" seems a little extreme to me.

Look.

The amount of people I've seen trash talk Mewtwo despite Sakurai putting him back in the game, using him as a joke/laugh and making snide remarks, disgusts me and will continue to do so. Those people are *better off* without him, especially the one's that pick him up, drop him instantly and call him trash. Why bother paying for him for DLC, when they could just as easily not get him and complain to begin with. It's tiring seeing a repeat of Melee. People just don't want to commit time or effort from what they see on first basis. How is saying that overreacting? Everybody is entitled to their own opinions, but not everybody has to agree to them, or even respect them, if they do not wish to. I certainly do not respect the opinions of people that say Mewtwo is terrible and should never have been brought back. That is entirely what I intended in my previous post, but I didn't go into full detail. The people that trash Mewtwo, call him crap... etc.

You're saying 'based on what we know.' Is there an actual, solidated tier list now or is it still on going? Even if he is low tier, I doubt he's at the bottom. He has far more potential we have yet to find or see. I just can't see him being worst in the game. Some people I've seen say that he's worse than Melee Mewtwo. I don't think so.

Zero may be correct but making an entire video about it isn't really that necessary. We get he could be better. It's the same with Melee. If he wants to be underwhelmed/dissapointed in Mewtwo as with all the others that dump him for high tiers, then let him. I don't need a top player reminding me that my character is still bad when it's something that can easily be worked around. Showing a video like this, pretty much just deters people from even giving Mewtwo a chance, honestly. That's the feeling I get watching it. You don't have to agree with that.

I'm not trying to sound narky here, but there are people that really piss me off with their 'opinions' about Mewtwo, yet they've never even so much as played him.

...this is just too cute not to post, pretty much how I guess I feel about Mewtwo and the way people talk about him.

 

[U-Throw]

Look.

The amount of people I've seen trash talk Mewtwo despite Sakurai putting him back in the game, using him as a joke/laugh and making snide remarks, disgusts me and will continue to do so. Those people are *better off* without him, especially the one's that pick him up, drop him instantly and call him trash. Why bother paying for him for DLC, when they could just as easily not get him and complain to begin with. It's tiring seeing a repeat of Melee. People just don't want to commit time or effort from what they see on first basis. How is saying that overreacting? Everybody is entitled to their own opinions, but not everybody has to agree to them, or even respect them, if they do not wish to. I certainly do not respect the opinions of people that say Mewtwo is terrible and should never have been brought back. That is entirely what I intended in my previous post, but I didn't go into full detail. The people that trash Mewtwo, call him crap... etc.

You're saying 'based on what we know.' Is there an actual, solidated tier list now or is it still on going? Even if he is low tier, I doubt he's at the bottom. He has far more potential we have yet to find or see. I just can't see him being worst in the game. Some people I've seen say that he's worse than Melee Mewtwo. I don't think so.

Zero may be correct but making an entire video about it isn't really that necessary. We get he could be better. It's the same with Melee. If he wants to be underwhelmed/dissapointed in Mewtwo as with all the others that dump him for high tiers, then let him. I don't need a top player reminding me that my character is still bad when it's something that can easily be worked around. Showing a video like this, pretty much just deters people from even giving Mewtwo a chance, honestly. That's the feeling I get watching it. You don't have to agree with that.

I'm not trying to sound narky here, but there are people that really piss me off with their 'opinions' about Mewtwo, yet they've never even so much as played him.

...this is just too cute not to post, pretty much how I guess I feel about Mewtwo and the way people talk about him.

Ah, I see. I agree with you there. I was under the assumption that you disliked anybody who thought Mewtwo was low-tier. People who make fun of Mewtwo for no reason are just jerks. Don't let them get to you. They're doing it for the express purpose of making you mad, so just don't react to them. That's what I would do, anyway.

Yeah, there is a community tier list being made. I believe they release a new one every month. If I remember correctly, Mewtwo is low-tier, not bottom-tier. I believe he was high C+, or "viable with secondaries." That's a pretty accurate description for him, in my opinion. It means he's average, which I think is true, at least for now. Once we figure out everything about Mewtwo, he'll probably see more action in tournaments, which will increase his placement on the tier list. I don't know of he'll move up very much, but it'll definitely be something.

People who say Mewtwo is worse than he was in Melee don't know what they're talking about. Most of the time, they're just misinformed. What with all the snide remarks people like to make about Mewtwo, I don't blame them, but I do try to set them straight. People who say Mewtwo is the worst character in the game also don't know what they're talking about. Like the individuals who believe Mewtwo is worse than his Melee incarnation, most of the time, they're just misguided. Personally, I don't think getting mad at them will fix anything. Rather, I think it'll just push people away. I prefer to politely try to sway their view, and if that fails, then I just leave them alone. That's just my method, though.

Honestly, I'm glad ZeRo made that video. It draws attention to some of Mewtwo's flaws, but it also provides potential solutions to them. ZeRo was very sympathetic and polite throughout it, and, despite being a little misinformed, I think he had good intentions. Personally, I also don't think there's anything wrong with drawing attention to Mewtwo's flaws, especially since ZeRo tried to provide potential solutions to them. Ignorance is bliss, but awareness brings about change, especially when the aware individuals try to provide that change. I completely understand and respect your stance on ZeRo's video, though. Also, that's a very sweet comic. Thanks for posting it!

@ Ryu Myuutsu - Thank you for posting that video! I already knew most of it, but I wasn't aware that you could cancel Mewtwo's midair jump with Disable and Shadow Ball. I mean, I knew that stuff existed, but I wasn't completely sure how to perform it. That'll be very helpful, especially when I'm trying to break edge-guard attempts. I also found the segment on fast-falling Mewtwo's N-Air interesting. I'll have to practice that and make good use of it. It should prove useful, as well.

 

[Gallant Blade]

Here are some nice Mewtwo combos

Hey thanks for the video. I might as well try some of those tactics. And maybe turn off tap jump. (Don't judge. My 3ds L button does not work so the Y button is grab and I jump with X anyhow) And I use tap jump and C button with Wii Remote And Nunchuck on Wii U. I like the Wii Remote. And that up tilt to up smash.

Edit: It is really difficult to double jump cancel with a 3ds...

Edit x2: @ Metros , that is an awesome picture. The family love there is so cute, IT BUUUURRRRNNNSSS!!!

 

[meleebrawler]

What's your record number for bair chains? Mine's 5 on a DK.

 

[Gallant Blade]

What's your record number for bair chains? Mine's 5 on a DK.

I never have thought a back air spam chain until now. I just chained three on Pit. I will try Donkey Kong. I sound like a food connoisseur.
Cilan: It's INVESTIGATION TIME!!!

Edit: Only got three as well. This is difficult.

 

[U-Throw]

What's your record number for bair chains? Mine's 5 on a DK.

I think my record is 5, as well. I attained that number on two separate occasions, actually. The first time, it was on a Bowser player, and the second time, it was on a Mario player. The Bowser player was decent, but the Mario player was pretty bad. I think that may explain why I was able to chain so many B-Airs on such a small target.

 

[DrRiceBoy]

My record is probably 4 or 5 on a heavy. Landing these are soo satisfying. :D

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

My day takes a turn for the worse, I got a deep cut on my left thumb today at work. They sent to the hospital and fixed it, but now they are giving me a week off from work and I can't afford that, I currently live on a tight budget and every little bit counts. Plus, I can't play Smash for comfort either.

 

[U-Throw]

My day takes a turn for the worse, I got a deep cut on my left thumb today at work. They sent to the hospital and fixed it, but now they are giving me a week off from work and I can't afford that, I currently live on a tight budget and every little bit counts. Plus, I can't play Smash either.

I'm sorry! That sounds awful. I don't really know what else to say, but I hope you get to feeling better I hope your thumb heals up quickly. Hopefully, everything will work out in the end. Best wishes~

EDIT: Blech. That came out really funny. When I said, "I hope you get to feeling better," I really meant, "I hope your thumb heals up quickly." My mind just assumed that you were feeling down about it, so I typed that phrase with that thought in mind. I see now that it sounds like I was comforting a sick person, not an injured one. My apologies.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I'll be fine, physically. Aw man... one week doing nothing. My wound started bleeding again despite being covered, must be due to the pressure.
I objected against taking the week off, but they just won't let me come back until next week.

 

[U-Throw]

I'll be fine, physically. Aw man... one week doing nothing. My wound started bleeding again despite being covered, must be due to the pressure.
I objected against taking the week off, but they just won't let me come back until next week.

What kind of injury is it, if you don't mind me asking? Like, is it a laceration, a puncture wound, a scrape, or something else entirely?

 

[LIQUID12A]

Hey what's up-

I'll be fine, physically. Aw man... one week doing nothing. My wound started bleeding again despite being covered, must be due to the pressure.
I objected against taking the week off, but they just won't let me come back until next week.

What happened.

 

[DrRiceBoy]

Hey what's up-



What happened.

"My day takes a turn for the worse, I got a deep cut on my left thumb today at work. They sent to the hospital and fixed it, but now they are giving me a week off from work and I can't afford that, I currently live on a tight budget and every little bit counts. Plus, I can't play Smash for comfort either."

His post from the previous page.

 

[LIQUID12A]

"My day takes a turn for the worse, I got a deep cut on my left thumb today at work. They sent to the hospital and fixed it, but now they are giving me a week off from work and I can't afford that, I currently live on a tight budget and every little bit counts. Plus, I can't play Smash for comfort either."

His post from the previous page.

Well that sucks.

Heal up Myuutsu.

 

[LoveGame]

I'll be fine, physically. Aw man... one week doing nothing. My wound started bleeding again despite being covered, must be due to the pressure.
I objected against taking the week off, but they just won't let me come back until next week.

How eerily coincidental! I got a really deep laceration on my left index finger 2 weeks ago and had to get stitches. I sadly lost my job (well quit actually) again but yeah, just now got them taken out. Still waiting for the feeling in my finger to come back; can't really use it until then. I've still been playing Melee and just using my middle finger. It's weird to get used to. Hope you heal up, man.

 

[U-Throw]

How eerily coincidental! I got a really deep laceration on my left index finger 2 weeks ago and had to get stitches. I sadly lost my job (well quit actually) again but yeah, just now got them taken out. Still waiting for the feeling in my finger to come back; can't really use it until then. I've still been playing Melee and just using my middle finger. It's weird to get used to. Hope you heal up, man.

Ouch! You, too? I'm really sorry, man. I hope you get the feeling in your finger back soon. Also, when you say that you've been playing Melee with "just your middle finger," do you mean that you've been using your middle finger in place of your index finger? If so, I applaud you. I'd probably get hand cramps trying to attempt such a thing. >_<

 

[LoveGame]

Ouch! You, too? I'm really sorry, man. I hope you get the feeling in your finger back soon. Also, when you say that you've been playing Melee with "just your middle finger," do you mean that you've been using your middle finger in place of your index finger? If so, I applaud you. I'd probably get hand cramps trying to attempt such a thing. >_<

Well when I played Halo and CoD I would use my middle finger to shoot single-fire weapons because I felt it made me a faster shot.

Incidentally, do any of you guys adopt any "weird" controller quirks? I've just recently started using Z to L-cancel and it feels amazing. It's really improved my Mewtwo and Marth game.

 

[U-Throw]

Well when I played Halo and CoD I would use my middle finger to shoot single-fire weapons because I felt it made me a faster shot.

Incidentally, do any of you guys adopt any "weird" controller quirks? I've just recently started using Z to L-cancel and it feels amazing. It's really improved my Mewtwo and Marth game.

Ah, I see. I don't play many Shooters (except for Splatoon. I love Splatoon), so I don't have much experience with that kind of stuff.

I don't know if this is considered "weird" or not, but I use the GamePad when I play Smash 4, and I set the Right Stick to "attack." It's much more comfortable, in my opinion, because it allows me to use tilts much easier, as well as use aerials without messing with my aerial momentum or falling speed. That's just me, though.

 

[LoveGame]

Ah, I see. I don't play many Shooters (except for Splatoon. I love Splatoon), so I don't have much experience with that kind of stuff.

I don't know if this is considered "weird" or not, but I use the GamePad when I play Smash 4, and I set the Right Stick to "attack." It's much more comfortable, in my opinion, because it allows me to use tilts much easier, as well as use aerials without messing with my aerial momentum or falling speed. That's just me, though.

I'm not too big into the genre myself. Halo and Smash are 90% of the reason I still game on consoles. Halo because it's honestly the only FPS I can take remotely "seriously" if you know what I mean. My favorite is actually BioShock, but that's singleplayer.

That's interesting! I, like many, can't play any Smash besides 64 without a GC controller. Well, except 3DS obviously, but I don't really need tech for that game. Still, it feels weird because I didn't even know l-cancelling with Z was possible til now. Look out, world, I'm gonna be the next Taj!

 

[Metros]

My day takes a turn for the worse, I got a deep cut on my left thumb today at work. They sent to the hospital and fixed it, but now they are giving me a week off from work and I can't afford that, I currently live on a tight budget and every little bit counts. Plus, I can't play Smash for comfort either.

Damn, sorry to hear that and hope your thumb heals up okay. D:

I've been in and out of hospital over the past month or so myself. For years I've had terrible head pain and recently found out I not only have sinusitis, but a malformation on my brain.

 

[Aqua Admin Shelly]

Damn, sorry to hear that and hope your thumb heals up okay. D:

I've been in and out of hospital over the past month or so myself. For years I've had terrible head pain and recently found out I not only have sinusitis, but a malformation on my brain.

Is it Chiari Malformation? @ThePsychoWolf 's sister has that, and Dysautonomia

 

[Metros]

Is it Chiari Malformation? @ThePsychoWolf 's sister has that, and Dysautonomia

I don't think it's that, but I still don't have an answer as to what it is yet. My appointment with the neurosurgeons is not until September 9th.

It's a growth on my superior sagittal sinus.

 

[LRodC]

So I'm making a video that showcases all of Mewtwo's problems (hitboxes, janky teleport, etc.) in order to raise awareness for his issues. Should I include his light weight in there too (would be video of him being killed extremely early)? Or is it not necessary/needed? It doesn't bother me that much, but I know a lot of others are bothered by it. If people here think it's important enough to include, I will.

Also, I didn't mean to derail the current conversation. Hopefully your finger heals up soon.

 

[DrRiceBoy]

So I'm making a video that showcases all of Mewtwo's problems (hitboxes, janky teleport, etc.) in order to raise awareness for his issues. Should I include his light weight in there too (would be video of him being killed extremely early)? Or is it not necessary/needed? It doesn't bother me that much, but I know a lot of others are bothered by it. If people here think it's important enough to include, I will.

Also, I didn't mean to derail the current conversation. Hopefully your finger heals up soon.

Mewtwo being the second lightest character is a veryyyyyy big flaw. IMO his weight is his biggest weakness. Pretty sure there are a lot out there that agree with me. Definitely include it!

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Mewtwo being the second lightest character is a veryyyyyy big flaw. IMO his weight is his biggest weakness. Pretty sure there are a lot out there that agree with me. Definitely include it!

On one hand, you're right. On the other hand, he's meant to be a glass cannon

 

[DrRiceBoy]

On one hand, you're right. On the other hand, he's meant to be a glass cannon

Of course. Being a glass cannon is cool; it's part of his gameplay design. Even so, glass cannon or not, dying easily is a weakness.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Of course. Being a glass cannon is cool; it's part of his gameplay design. Even so, glass cannon or not, dying easily is a weakness.

That's why I'm 50/50 on the weight

 

[U-Throw]

So I'm making a video that showcases all of Mewtwo's problems (hitboxes, janky teleport, etc.) in order to raise awareness for his issues. Should I include his light weight in there too (would be video of him being killed extremely early)? Or is it not necessary/needed? It doesn't bother me that much, but I know a lot of others are bothered by it. If people here think it's important enough to include, I will.

Also, I didn't mean to derail the current conversation. Hopefully your finger heals up soon.

If this is for awareness purposes, then I wouldn't include his weight. Mewtwo's low weight was designed to be a counterpoint to his strong suits, but, unfortunately, his strong suits aren't quite strong enough to make up for his weight. In my opinion, and I cannot possibly stress this enough, Mewtwo's weight isn't the issue; lack of compensation is. Now, yes, being light is a weakness, but that doesn't make it an issue. There's a big difference. A weakness is a counterpoint to a given character's strengths, whereas as an issue is a poor design choice that needs to be fixed. In Mewtwo's case, because he was obviously intended to be a glass cannon, his weight is a weakness, not an issue. Mewtwo's strange hitboxes and lack of adequate power, on the other hand, are issues. Don't fix weaknesses, fix issues. So, for that reason, I wouldn't include Mewtwo's low weight in a video designed to draw attention to Mewtwo's flaws, because his weight isn't a flaw; it's a weakness.

I see where you're coming from, @ DrRiceBoy , but I respectfully disagree. In my opinion, Mewtwo's low weight isn't a bad thing; it's his lack of compensation for that low weight that's the problem. Like I said, there's a big difference between a weakness and an issue, and I consider Mewtwo's weight to be the former. That's just my opinion, though.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

What kind of injury is it, if you don't mind me asking? Like, is it a laceration, a puncture wound, a scrape, or something else entirely?

It was a laceration I believe. I broke a glass I was holding in my hand and one of the shards rip a bit of my skin, leaving a fine thread of meat hanging from my finger. It was not pretty.

 

[Igzex]

Mewtwo is not a glass cannon. Mewtwo is Dhalsim.

 

[DrRiceBoy]

If this is for awareness purposes, then I wouldn't include his weight. Mewtwo's low weight was designed to be a counterpoint to his strong suits, but, unfortunately, his strong suits aren't quite strong enough to make up for his weight. In my opinion, and I cannot possibly stress this enough, Mewtwo's weight isn't the issue; lack of compensation is. Now, yes, being light is a weakness, but that doesn't make it an issue. There's a big difference. A weakness is a counterpoint to a given character's strengths, whereas as an issue is a poor design choice that needs to be fixed. In Mewtwo's case, because he was obviously intended to be a glass cannon, his weight is a weakness, not an issue. Mewtwo's strange hitboxes and lack of adequate power, on the other hand, are issues. Don't fix weaknesses, fix issues. So, for that reason, I wouldn't include Mewtwo's low weight in a video designed to draw attention to Mewtwo's flaws, because his weight isn't a flaw; it's a weakness.

I see where you're coming from, @ DrRiceBoy , but I respectfully disagree. In my opinion, Mewtwo's low weight isn't a bad thing; it's his lack of compensation for that low weight that's the problem. Like I said, there's a big difference between a weakness and an issue, and I consider Mewtwo's weight to be the former. That's just my opinion, though.

My bad, I used "flaw" wrong. I was basically trying to say what you were saying -- Mewtwo's weight is a weakness. Also, after reading your post, I realized that I may have misunderstood lightningrodc's post. Sorry, haha

I also love the glass cannon aspects of Mewtwo, so I completely agree with what you said.

Honestly, I believe that Mewtwo's power isn't really that big of a problem. His moves are actually really strong. Maybe increase the knockback on them by a little bit, but even if Nintendo doesn't change it I'd be cool. A buff to his power would be welcomed, but better frame data and hitboxes would do so much more for him.

 

[LRodC]

I agree with U-Throw. However, I included it anyway since I know people would mention it. Here's the video:

http://youtu.be/I2_AIdsqYQw

Let me know what you think. Feel free to spread it around so that people know of Mewtwo's issues.

 

[DrRiceBoy]

I agree with U-Throw. However, I included it anyway since I know people would mention it. Here's the video:

http://youtu.be/I2_AIdsqYQw

Let me know what you think. Feel free to spread it around so that people know of Mewtwo's issues.

I got a good chuckle. Nice video! :D

 

[U-Throw]

My bad, I used "flaw" wrong. I was basically trying to say what you were saying -- Mewtwo's weight is a weakness. Also, after reading your post, I realized that I may have misunderstood lightningrodc's post. Sorry, haha

I also love the glass cannon aspects of Mewtwo, so I completely agree with what you said.

Honestly, I believe that Mewtwo's power isn't really that big of a problem. His moves are actually really strong. Maybe increase the knockback on them by a little bit, but even if Nintendo doesn't change it I'd be cool. A buff to his power would be welcomed, but better frame data and hitboxes would do so much more for him.

Ah, I see. Also, I agree with you on Mewtwo having lots of power. I just think that more power would increase his viability, so that's typically something I cite as an area that could use buffs, along with speed. However, I do believe that hitbox corrections would be much more beneficial to Mewtwo than either power or speed, so his hitboxes should definitely be the first thing about Mewtwo that gets fixed, in my opinion. I completely agree with you there. Better frame data should also be a top priority for Mewtwo. I don't think it's quite as important as fixing Mewtwo's hitboxes, but it's definitely a close second. I agree with you there, as well.

I agree with U-Throw. However, I included it anyway since I know people would mention it. Here's the video:

http://youtu.be/I2_AIdsqYQw

Let me know what you think. Feel free to spread it around so that people know of Mewtwo's issues.

Nice! I'm not exactly sure if the thing about Teleport getting caught underneath certain stages is a problem with Mewtwo, since I think that can happen to any character, but, other than that, this is a great video! I love how it manages to be funny and serious at the same time. Excellent job on it!

That said, the comment about Confusion is sickening. You can always shield an attack attempt from a Confused opponent, so it doesn't leave you vulnerable. This isn't Super Smash Bros. Melee. >_<

 

[Igzex]

I have like, a question or something: How is Sheik being overpowered and Zero Suit Samus' jab being too good Mewtwo's fault?

 

[Rhus]

I have like, a question or something: How is Sheik being overpowered and Zero Suit Samus' jab being too good Mewtwo's fault?

The ZSS thing is more he has a teleport that is easily interrupted by anything that has nothing to protect him. Sheik gets complete invulnerability during the channel for Vanish, and at least Zelda is protected by a hitbox. Mewtwo honestly deserves invulnerability on his teleport's startup, it doesn't make sense at all when compared to the killing, invincible, easy ledge snapping, winbox'd Vanish.

The Sheik thing is showcasing his weight+size makes him die to a combo of Sheik's very easily whereas some other characters can escape it. That's my guess.

I honestly just think Mewtwo needs better compensation for his weight+size. Making him heavier with a smaller hurtbox changes his identity. Just accentuate his strengths further.

 

[Igzex]

I'd still say Sheik is the problem on that one.

 

[---]

I swear the only thing this board does is wait for buffs. lol

But anyway, good video. Only suggestions would be to show off Up-Smash's wiff, and remove the none-Omega Boxing Ring SDs (maybe show off how it works with Palutena for a comparison).

 

[Rhus]

I swear the only thing this board does is wait for buffs. lol

I kind of agree. I have a lot of things in mind I would change for Mewtwo, but I've been doing my best to make do with what he has. I feel like the Mewtwo community is held back pretty significantly by our lack of motivation to improve with what we have.

 

[Aqua Admin Shelly]

Well met, Mewtwos.
I suck with him, but I find Mewtwo very fun to play.
It is nice to have , , and our boy back together again.