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[LoveGame]

Y'know, I'm a perv so I shouldn't be reading this when sleepy

Don't think too much, just bust that kick
I wanna take a ride on your d i s c o s t i c k

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Don't think too much, just bust that kick
I wanna take a ride on your d i s c o s t i c k

Er...I'm a woman...Last time I checked we don't typically have disco sticks

 

[U-Throw]

Nice to see you back, @ LoveGame ! It's been awhile! As for your question about Mewtwo, generally speaking, he's considered average. He hits hard and has a good recovery, but he's really light, especially for someone his height, and he has poor frame data. Mewtwo isn't bad, but, at the same time, he's not great, either. He's pretty middle-of-the-road. Last time I checked, I believe he was high C+, or "viable with secondaries." Personally, I feel like that's a pretty accurate placement for now. Hopefully, Mewtwo will get buffed in the future, but, until then, I'm content with him being C+.

 

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

What the heck is going on in this thread right now?

 

[LoveGame]

Er...I'm a woman...Last time I checked we don't typically have disco sticks

What do you think Mewtwos tail r e a l l y i s

 

[LoveGame]

Nice to see you back, @ LoveGame ! It's been awhile! As for your question about Mewtwo, generally speaking, he's considered average. He hits hard and has a good recovery, but he's really light, especially for someone his height, and he has poor frame data. Mewtwo isn't bad, but, at the same time, he's not great, either. He's pretty middle-of-the-road. Last time I checked, I believe he was high C+, or "viable with secondaries." Personally, I feel like that's a pretty accurate placement for now. Hopefully, Mewtwo will get buffed in the future, but, until then, I'm content with him being C+.

I feel like all he needs is to be buffed to midweight like in PM

His kill moves feel way better than Melee at least

 

[Cutie Gwen]

What do you think Mewtwos tail r e a l l y i s

Check my status updates

 

[U-Throw]

I feel like all he needs is to be buffed to midweight like in PM

His kill moves feel way better than Melee at least

Personally, I'd rather see Mewtwo's overall power level and speed increased, as well as fix a few bugs fixed here and there. I like the "glass cannon" aspect Sakurai has attempted to give Mewtwo, so I'd rather not make him a middleweight. I mean, buffing his weight a little bit, such as into the 75-80 range, would be fine, but, personally, I'm content with Mewtwo's "glass cannon" archetype. That's just me, though.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Mewtwo's grab should have better range, Lucas has I believe 3 kill throws and a grapple. That's a bit unfair

 

[LoveGame]

So here's a topic for y'all

Let's say a hypothetical "Melee HD" with balanced characters is released

What would YOU change about Mewtwo?

 

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

Personally, I'd rather see Mewtwo's overall power level and speed increased, as well as fix a few bugs fixed here and there. I like the "glass cannon" aspect Sakurai has attempted to give Mewtwo, so I'd rather not make him a middleweight. I mean, buffing his weight a little bit, such as into the 75-80 range, would be fine, but, personally, I'm content with Mewtwo's "glass cannon" archetype. That's just me, though.

I agree. Too many of his moves miss when they shouldn't. Like you said, a slight weight buff would be fine but the "glass cannon" aspect works well. Hopefully he finally gets buffs in the next patch coming next month.

 

[U-Throw]

So here's a topic for y'all

Let's say a hypothetical "Melee HD" with balanced characters is released

What would YOU change about Mewtwo?

Make him like his Smash 4 self, but with more power, speed, and hitbox fixes.

 

[LoveGame]

Make him like his Smash 4 self, but with more power, speed, and hitbox fixes.

Think that would work with his wavedashing, l cancel, DJC, etc. and Melee physics? Not doubting you, just wondering

 

[pikazz]

just saying, if they will ever remake Melee into its HD state, the biggest prio would be Balance changes (Alot of balance changes like using the PAL Version and balance more) and Bug/Glitch fixes (The Melee Air Dodge was never intended but they was lazy to fix it sakurai said and the "Reflector Jump cancel" is also a bug thats never intended) so if it got a remake, many would hate it because of the balance changes and that "it isnt melee"

 

[Metallinatus]

Personally, I'd rather see Mewtwo's overall power level and speed increased, as well as fix a few bugs fixed here and there. I like the "glass cannon" aspect Sakurai has attempted to give Mewtwo, so I'd rather not make him a middleweight. I mean, buffing his weight a little bit, such as into the 75-80 range, would be fine, but, personally, I'm content with Mewtwo's "glass cannon" archetype. That's just me, though.

Just give him his PM speed and Teleport that let you attack and do stuff out of it.... I wouldn't even care about his weight anymore, he would be the sickest character in the game if he had PM's Teleport and speed.

 

[LIQUID12A]

So it's been a few months.

What's everyone's general consensus on Sm4sh Mewtwo? I've heard everything from him being really high risk/high reward to the worst character in the game. One complaint I hear is that he dies too early, but I mean, come on. It's Smash 4. No one dies early.

Definitely not the worst.

Just requires patience.

And a 100lb weight tied to him.

 

[U-Throw]

Just give him his PM speed and Teleport that let you attack and do stuff out of it.... I wouldn't even care about his weight anymore, he would be the sickest character in the game if he had PM's Teleport and speed.

The speed would be fine, but I'd rather steer clear of Mewtwo's Project M Teleport. I mean, it's cool and all, but I don't feel like it fits Smash 4 Mewtwo. The two are very different characters, and, in my opinion, P:M's Teleport should stay in Project M. I just don't think it fits Smash 4 Mewtwo very well.

Think that would work with his wavedashing, l cancel, DJC, etc. and Melee physics? Not doubting you, just wondering

It couldn't possibly hurt, could it? I mean, from what I understand, wavedashing, L-cancelling, and double jump cancelling would all be unaffected by Smash 4 Mewtwo's extra speed and power. I think Melee physics and Smash 4 Mewtwo would mix together alright, but I'm not entirely sure on that one.

Overall, I think the two Mewtwos would mix just fine. I don't think anything significantly bad would happen, but I'm open to correction on that. Also, on second thought, I think that Mewtwo also should get a little weight boost in this theoretical "Melee HD." I'm thinking ~76-ish.

 

[LoveGame]

I'd take the hurtbox out of the tail like PM, other than that I like @ U-Throw 's idea

 

[Metallinatus]

The speed would be fine, but I'd rather steer clear of Mewtwo's Project M Teleport. I mean, it's cool and all, but I don't feel like it fits Smash 4 Mewtwo. The two are very different characters, and, in my opinion, P:M's Teleport should stay in Project M. I just don't think it fits Smash 4 Mewtwo very well.

Fair. Mewtwo is the one reason why I watch PM.... I love that Mewtwo, specially in the hands of that Emukiller guy.
I would particularly really really love if PM's Mewtwo was in Smash 4.... just with Sm4sh's design, Throws, Confusion and Up Smash. All the rest could be PM forever. That mix up would be the perfect Mewtwo for me.

 

[Igzex]

Make confusion frame one and her down air really fast and easy to combo off of. Boom top tier.

 

[DrRiceBoy]

Make confusion frame one and her down air really fast and easy to combo off of. Boom top tier.

Mewtwo has a lot of problems, and I honestly think Confusion and dair isn't one of them. Giving him a frame 1 Confusion and a better dair isn't fixing his issues. Sure, he'd be better, but it isn't enough to make him top tier.

 

[Igzex]

But my Upside Down Flash Kick Shining...

 

[Chiroz]

Mewtwo has a lot of problems, and I honestly think Confusion and dair isn't one of them. Giving him a frame 1 Confusion and a better dair isn't fixing his issues. Sure, he'd be better, but it isn't enough to make him top tier.

I beg to differ. Confusion frame 1 would be incredibly OP.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I feel that would make Mewtwo unfairly strong by being able to beat shields and have a guaranteed combo follow up or kill move. Is one thing to buff a character but one has to be careful to not go overboard.

 

[Chiroz]

I feel that would make Mewtwo unfairly strong by being able to beat shields and have a guaranteed combo follow up or kill move. Is one thing to buff a character but one has to be careful to not go overboard.

We could also reflect any projectile on reaction and escape any combo that isn't a true combo. Also it would allow us to survive unbeliveably long since Confusion stops all our momentum (which allows us to survive longer as long as we have 12 frames to perform the attack. But with this buff, as long as we had 1 frame outside of hitstun we would be able to survive any KO move).

Also we would have a "get out of jail free card" every time we threw a laggy attack. Just like Little Mac, just spam the frame 1 attack (Yoshi/Falcon too, but theirs is frame 3).

 

[DrRiceBoy]

We could also reflect any projectile on reaction and escape any combo that isn't a true combo. Also it would allow us to survive unbeliveably long since Confusion stops all our momentum (which allows us to survive longer as long as we have 12 frames to perform the attack. But with this buff, as long as we had 1 frame outside of hitstun we would be able to survive any KO move).

Also we would have a "get out of jail free card" every time we threw a laggy attack. Just like Little Mac, just spam the frame 1 attack (Yoshi/Falcon too, but theirs is frame 3).

Fair enough. You convinced me.

 

[Chiroz]

Fair enough. You convinced me.

Honestly, any frame 1 attack is OP imo. I hate Little Mac's jab (and Falcon's/Yoshi's).

But having an attack which is a reflector, movement tool, survival tool and command grab all in one being a frame 1 attack is going a little over the top, hahaha.

 

[pikazz]

something that would help mewtwo alot is one frame invincibilty teleport (that he has invincibilty like sheik) so he can escape any non-true combos with one frame window!
if thats it, i really dont care about that endlag if he had that one frame invincibility

 

[Chiroz]

something that would help mewtwo alot is one frame invincibilty teleport (that he has invincibilty like sheik) so he can escape any non-true combos with one frame window!
if thats it, i really dont care about that endlag if he had that one frame invincibility

I don't think he needs frame 1 invincibility, that would be a little too powerful. Honestly I think Teleport should be made faster, yes, but I feel like N-Air is the move that should get priority. Make it frame 4 and increase it's hitbox by 50% (Mewtwo's hurtbox is bigger than N-Air's hitbox, that is just bull****). Make the hitbox of the whole move be the same as the one on the last hit. Also give it SOME priority. I know that it destroys projectiles, that's nice, but Mario's N-Air beating Mewtwo's is also bull**** and needs to be fixed.

That would make N-Air our anti-air and our combo breaker aerial, allowing us to use it to get out of combos and juggles.

 

[pikazz]

I don't think he needs frame 1 invincibility, that would be a little too powerful. Honestly I think Teleport should be made faster, yes, but I feel like N-Air is the move that should get priority. Make it frame 4 and increase it's hitbox by 50% (Mewtwo's hurtbox is bigger than N-Air's hitbox, that is just bull****). Make the hitbox of the whole move be the same as the one on the last hit. Also give it SOME priority. I know that it destroys projectiles, that's nice, but Mario's N-Air beating Mewtwo's is also bull**** and needs to be fixed.

That would make N-Air our anti-air and our combo breaker aerial, allowing us to use it to get out of combos and juggles.

I think it wouldnt be that powerful if it still has that speed and endlag as before. but it means he can harmful escape any situations without being attack during the start up

however, I do like the NAir tho

 

[Metallinatus]

We could also reflect any projectile on reaction and escape any combo that isn't a true combo. Also it would allow us to survive unbeliveably long since Confusion stops all our momentum (which allows us to survive longer as long as we have 12 frames to perform the attack. But with this buff, as long as we had 1 frame outside of hitstun we would be able to survive any KO move).

Also we would have a "get out of jail free card" every time we threw a laggy attack. Just like Little Mac, just spam the frame 1 attack (Yoshi/Falcon too, but theirs is frame 3).

People, calm down, Fox has a 1 frame move that does all of that except for the survive part and he is not nearly as strong as you're making that out to be....
Ok, I may be wrong here, but his Reflector is still 1 frame in this game, right?

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I don't think Fox's reflector has the same versatility as in Melee and Brawl after it was nerfed. Better ask some Fox mains though.

 

[pikazz]

Fox 1-frame reflector is good and I mean. the only thing that isnt that good for him is that it ends sooner than in brawl and melee so you cant spam it

I don't think Fox's reflector has the same versatility as in Melee and Brawl after it was nerfed. Better ask some Fox mains though.

many are sad because they fixed the "bug" of reflector in melee there you can jump-cancel it

 

[Chiroz]

People, calm down, Fox has a 1 frame move that does all of that except for the survive part and he is not nearly as strong as you're making that out to be....
Ok, I may be wrong here, but his Reflector is still 1 frame in this game, right?

Fox reflector is frame 6 in this game. It also has less range and is not a command grab or a movement tool or a survival tool. All it is is a reflector. Mario's cape is much better.

 

[Gallant Blade]

Personally, if I wanted Mewtwo buffed, I would want a better disable. More range and the air knockback from Melee would be nice. And although the shield should be null during this, I think that because they are blocking, they do not look into the eyes of the Cloned Mew/Our Fair Lady/Mr. Genderless.

 

[Chiroz]

Personally, if I wanted Mewtwo buffed, I would want a better disable. More range and the air knockback from Melee would be nice. And although the shield should be null during this, I think that because they are blocking, they do not look into the eyes of the Cloned Mew/Our Fair Lady/Mr. Genderless.

I wish Disable did good shield damage/shield stun/shield push. It can already be jumped, ducked and just outright looked to the other side. It also is really slow in terms of startup. Why does shielding have to mean we get punished for it when there's so many ways for the attack to fail anyways.

 

[Gallant Blade]

I wonder what it would be like to be disabled. Would your mind be shocked and paralyzed by the stern glare and the flashing eyes? Or would you be so mesmerized by the colors that there would be no way to respond to the glory that is Mewtwo.

 

[DrRiceBoy]

If I wanted Mewtwo buffed, I would focus on the glass cannon aspects of Mewtwo like U-throw said. I personally don't think he needs to be faster; he can honestly work without speed. I agree with most of Raykz's ideas. I would give him a lot more priority on all of his moves, more damage on all of his moves including throws, a way bigger hitbox on u-smash (similar to Marth's), less startup on nair and make it always send them forward instead of depending on DI (like Lucas and Falco), way less startup/end/landing lag on bair and uair, more shield damage with Disable and less startup, a wayyyy better grab (I honestly think Mewtwo deserves to have the best grab in the game considering he's an almighty psychic monster and all), make all of his kill moves (uthrow, bthrow, smashes, ftilt, fair, bair) kill 10% earlier, make dash attack a killing move, and finally fix his hitboxes to match the animations. I think this would be a good Mewtwo without making him too good.

 

[Metallinatus]

I wonder what it would be like to be disabled. Would your mind be shocked and paralyzed by the stern glare and the flashing eyes? Or would you be so mesmerized by the colors that there would be no way to respond to the glory that is Mewtwo.

The real Disable in the Pokémon series only disables the target's last used move, right? So it is definitely not like that....

 

[DrRiceBoy]

ayy just realized my previous post was my thousandth one. Smash Lord hype. :D