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ZephyrZ

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Mewtwo could be higher on the tier list if more people win with him in tournaments.
Yeah, that's basically how tiers are decided, right?
Just WHY in the world would Capcom get two characters? Mega Man is more than enough. Maybe that's just me, a person who doesn't fully support the idea of having third-party characters in the game. This time I can accept them because all three are iconic and the number isn't that high, but four is just way too much.
Probably because both Street Fighter and Ryu are just that iconic.
It's hard to find someone who doesn't recognize "hadoken" or at least "shoryuken" as a meme.
 

U-Throw

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So, um, guys, I just did the math, and you can't really say that Smash 4 has too many 3rd party characters without saying that Brawl has too many 3rd party characters, as well.

Super Smash Bros. Brawl has 35 characters, 39 if Sheik, Zero Suit Samus, and all three of the Pokémon Trainer's Pokèmon are counted as seperate characters. That means that Brawl's 3rd party characters make up 8.6% of a roster of 35 characters, or 7.7% out of a roster of 39.

Smash 4 has a roster consisting of 51 characters, 53 if all three Mii Fighters are counted a seperate characters. By the time Ryu comes out, the roster will consist of either 53 or 55 characters, depending on how you look at it. That means that Smash 4's 3rd party characters make up 7.5% of a roster of 53 characters, or 7.3% of a roster of 55 characters.

So, Smash 4's ratio of 3rd parties-to-1st parties is lower than Brawl's across the boards. Therefore, it is impossible to call Smash 4's roster saturated with 3rd parties without calling Brawl's roster the same thing. Can't fight facts.
 
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MewtwoMaster2002

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Yeah, that's basically how tiers are decided, right?
Not completely. It does have influence though.
because Nintendo is already working with Capcom on Smash 4 itself.
Was Capcom that involved outside of lending rights to Mega Man? Namco-Bandai was the one that helped with developing Smash 4.
 

U-Throw

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Was Capcom that involved outside of lending rights to Mega Man? Namco-Bandai was the one that helped with developing Smash 4.
Oops. You're right. It was Namco-Bandai that helped with Smash 4. That's my mistake, and I apologize. Still, I would imagine that getting the rights to Ryu would be easier than most other Fighting-game characters, since Capcom already gave permission to include Mega Man. It may not be that much easier than normal, but it's still probably a little bit easier.

Also, I still consider Ryu to be a representative of the Fighting-genre as a whole, compared to be being a Capcom rep. However, that's purely my opinion, and I'll respect your outlook on the matter.
 

U-Throw

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Well, perhaps Capcom pushed for Ryu then.
Hm. I never thought about that possibility, but it honestly wouldn't surprise me. Smash is a huge series, and I imagine that getting your character into it is a dream come true. I know that Konami approached Sakurai about Snake, but I'm interested in the stories behind Sonic, Mega Man, and Pac-Man. It could definitely provide some insight on how 3rd party characters are determined, and it would probably increase our accuracy when it comes to character predictions. Excellent thought, Ryu Myuutsu!
 

ZephyrZ

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Ryu getting in may not even be on Capcom's side. For all we know, it could of been Nintendo who pushed for him to get in.

I mean, he's one of the most iconic video game characters ever. I'd argue that in the modern world, he's even more recognizable then Mega Man.
 

meleebrawler

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Ryu getting in may not even be on Capcom's side. For all we know, it could of been Nintendo who pushed for him to get in.

I mean, he's one of the most iconic video game characters ever. I'd argue that in the modern world, he's even more recognizable then Mega Man.
He is basically the face of 2D fighters. Scorpion/Sub-Zero ain't got **** on him in terms of recognizability.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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I love them both, honestly.

Roy, because he is one of my mains and one of the only clones left from Melee worth bringing back. Ryu, because he is iconic and his games were huuuge successes on the SNES. However, I do feel like Ryu is just coming back to steal Mega Man's lime light. It seems like Capcom really really doesn't want to give the Blue Bomber his own time to shine...
 

ZephyrZ

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I love them both, honestly.

Roy, because he is one of my mains and one of the only clones left from Melee worth bringing back. Ryu, because he is iconic and his games were huuuge successes on the SNES. However, I do feel like Ryu is just coming back to steal Mega Man's lime light. It seems like Capcom really really doesn't want to give the Blue Bomber his own time to shine...
It's not like Ryu is going to cause Mega Man to get cut or anything.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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It's not like Ryu is going to cause Mega Man to get cut or anything.
That's not the point I'm making.

Mega Man is no longer Capcom's go to money maker, Ryu is. So anytime Mega Man gets to shine it seems like Ryu has to shine alongside him. I mean Mega Man's last non-canceled game was Street Fighter X Mega Man.
And why can't they both co-exist in their own right? Iconic platformer (Mega Man), iconic fighting game character (Ryu).

Smooth Criminal
Because, Capcom won't allow it, sadly. I love the Street Fighter games to death. There haven't been any real notable Mega Man appearances recently, however, without the presence of Ryu...
 

Gui JP

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So, after much frustruations, I've found that I can reduce the potential of internet problems whilst playing For Glory by turning off my laptop's wireless connection thing. (whilst others are also making use of the wi-fi in my home.)

Current kind-of-problems include a preeeetty sensitive 3DS circle pad (shift it 3 millimeters anywhere for a Tilt, move it all the way for a Smash. idk, it's probably just me being used to hearing the clack of a joystick.)

And working on fundamentals, because wouldn't you believe that it isn't a good idea to fall into a pattern.


Also to stay relevant to the subject at hand, Ryu and Roy is pretty hype, and really just about any (new) character is hype, Wolf included.
 

ZephyrZ

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That's not the point I'm making.

Mega Man is no longer Capcom's go to money maker, Ryu is. So anytime Mega Man gets to shine it seems like Ryu has to shine alongside him. I mean Mega Man's last non-canceled game was Street Fighter X Mega Man.
I still stand by my point.

Ryu doesn't change or harm Mega Man's inclusion in this game in any way.
And hey, and least Mega Man was the first one to come around this time.
 
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DrRiceBoy

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Roy and Ryu are cool I guess. Don't particularly care for either of them but them being in the game doesn't bother me. I might use Roy a little because I use Marth/Lucy a lot.
 

Gui JP

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Roy and Ryu are cool I guess. Don't particularly care for either of them but them being in the game doesn't bother me. I might use Roy a little because I use Marth/Lucy a lot.
Well, it'd be the first time a character from a fighting game has been in Smash (read: Fighting, as in combos and all that jazz.)
So that'd be interesting, and let's face it, Roy's our Boy.
 

LIQUID12A

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Why do people speak as if Roy and Ryu were already confirmed?

Sound files do not equal confirmation. For all we know those are victory themes for Mii costumes or alts or something.

That's counting your chickens before they hatch.
 

meleebrawler

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Why do people speak as if Roy and Ryu were already confirmed?

Sound files do not equal confirmation. For all we know those are victory themes for Mii costumes or alts or something.

That's counting your chickens before they hatch.
Well the costumes that we have now don't have different victory themes...
 

LIQUID12A

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Well the costumes that we have now don't have different victory themes...
Anything is possible. Besides, taking a leak as certain before you are shown concrete, undeniable evidence such as gameplay is a very bad idea. It's why the ESRB leak was proven true, and why Gematsu and Rayman got a lot of backlash.
 

CyberHyperPhoenix

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Why do people speak as if Roy and Ryu were already confirmed?

Sound files do not equal confirmation. For all we know those are victory themes for Mii costumes or alts or something.

That's counting your chickens before they hatch.
Well the costumes that we have now don't have different victory themes...
Welp, that means Capcom USA is going to sue the **** out of Nintendo.

Unless you know, he was playable.
 

ZephyrZ

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Sound files do not equal confirmation.
Except that they may as well. Those two becoming playable is significantly more likely then anything else those files could mean, especially special mii costume themes.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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Except that they may as well. Those two becoming playable is significantly more likely then anything else those files could mean, especially special mii costume themes.
Well, anything is possible. Liquid's right. Believing full fledged that those sound files mean that those two are definitely going to be playable could be setting yourself up for disappointment.
I believe it, but not so much to say they're confirmed, just extremely likely.
 
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Anything is possible. Besides, taking a leak as certain before you are shown concrete, undeniable evidence such as gameplay is a very bad idea. It's why the ESRB leak was proven true, and why Gematsu and Rayman got a lot of backlash.
Um, you do realize that if Sakurai did this, he would seriously p*** off a ton of people who really want these characters right?
It'd be kind of like holding a kid's favorite bar of candy just high enough so they can't reach it and then saying "Awww...so close..."

...
Fortunately, Sakurai is not that kind of guy.
Roy and Ryu ARE coming.
 

Schnee117

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Call me when the Dunban Mii costume has the Xenoblade victory theme or Protoman with a Mega Man victory theme.
Exactly.
Why add these files in an update? Especially one being part of another companies franchise unless for some dumb reason Nintendo wanted to get sued.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Give Sakurai some credit here, he did a lot for Ridley and even said that he didn't want to make the character in the wrong way and upset people.
You DO realize Ridley acts completely different in sm4sh than in Metroid? He flies around doing nothing before realizing there are enemies, he helps out when slapped hard enough and he drains energy from purple things. In Metroid, Ridley's very aggresive, would focus on the person attacking him and has no energy draining capabilities. Sakurai ****ed up with him hard
 

NonSpecificGuy

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Um, you do realize that if Sakurai did this, he would seriously p*** off a ton of people who really want these characters right?
It'd be kind of like holding a kid's favorite bar of candy just high enough so they can't reach it and then saying "Awww...so close..."

...
Fortunately, Sakurai is not that kind of guy.
Roy and Ryu ARE coming.
Well, again, I do think they are coming but remember we aren't supposed to know about those sound files.

I don't think Sakurai would do that, but that's the thing, Sakurai is that kind of guy...
 

Ryu Myuutsu

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You DO realize Ridley acts completely different in sm4sh than in Metroid? He flies around doing nothing before realizing there are enemies, he helps out when slapped hard enough and he drains energy from purple things. In Metroid, Ridley's very aggresive, would focus on the person attacking him and has no energy draining capabilities. Sakurai ****ed up with him hard
There is absolutely nothing wrong with Ridley in Smash 4, in fact he got the most detailed treatment of any other NPC character; it's just people wanting to get offended for not having him playable instead, all while victimizing themselves and the guy. Please let's stop overdramatizing about the way he is, the guy wasn't ****ed up. It's also ironic that people feel the need to come up to defend the big, badass and ruthless dragon like he is some poor, defenseless pup.
We have multiple other examples out of universe such as Ghirahim helping Link when summoned by him or Koopas attacking Bowser in Smash Run but when it comes to Ridley, O Heavens forbid it.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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There is absolutely nothing wrong with Ridley in Smash 4, in fact he got the most detailed treatment of any other NPC character; it's just people wanting to get offended for not having him playable instead, stuff that is just in your heads. Please let's stop overdramatizing about the way he is, the guy wasn't ****ed up. It's also ironic that people feel the need to come up to defend the big, badass and ruthless dragon like he is some poor, defenseless pup.
We have multiple other examples out of universe such as Ghirahim helping Link when summoned by him or Koopas attacking Bowser in Smash Run but when it comes to Ridley, Heavens forbid something similar from happening.
Sakurai said Ridley wasn't playable specifically because it wouldn't be Ridley anymore. Ridley's personality is being sadistic, why would he join your side after getting smacked? "It's done for a unique mechanic" But THAT'S not Ridley! He's laughably slow too, it literally takes 3 seconds for him to charge up a claw swipe! Ghirahim at least attacks like he's Ghirahim, but Ridley doesn't help when summoned, it's that Ridley has the unique gimmick of having to be beaten to submission. If he were an AT I wouldn't really have this problem
 

Ryu Myuutsu

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Sakurai said Ridley wasn't playable specifically because it wouldn't be Ridley anymore. Ridley's personality is being sadistic, why would he join your side after getting smacked? "It's done for a unique mechanic" But THAT'S not Ridley! He's laughably slow too, it literally takes 3 seconds for him to charge up a claw swipe! Ghirahim at least attacks like he's Ghirahim, but Ridley doesn't help when summoned, it's that Ridley has the unique gimmick of having to be beaten to submission. If he were an AT I wouldn't really have this problem
So Ridley attacks 3 seconds later... seriously? That is one of your gripes? It still sounds very trivial.
And it IS Ridley, the problem is that you guys still think that that is the Metroid universe, but it's not. It's the Smash universe. Him joining you or not has nothing to do with a character's personality or what he/she would do in their game of origin. It's just merely a gameplay feature to have him rampaging on your side.
I can make a similar case for Ghirahim: "He would never side himself with Link, Zelda or any of the other heroes. Sakurai has made a disservice to him in this game, if he cared to staying true to his character he would have made him obey Ganon, and Ganon only, while turning onto whoever summoned him as well." See how pointless it is? Everyone can play that game. But of course, Ridley.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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So Ridley attacks 3 seconds later... seriously? That is one of your gripes? It still sounds very trivial.
And it IS Ridley, the problem is that you guys still think that that is the Metroid universe, but it's not. It's the Smash universe. Him joining you or not has nothing to do with a character's personality or what he/she would do in their game of origin. It's just merely a gameplay feature to have him rampaging on your side.
I can make a similar case for Ghirahim: "He would never side himself with Link, Zelda or any of the other heroes. Sakurai has made a disservice to him in this game, if he cared to staying true to his character he would have made him obey Ganon, and Ganon only, while turning onto whoever summoned him as well." See how pointless it is? Everyone can play that game. But of course, Ridley.
Fight Ridley in any other game, he's pretty fast, by the attack speed I meant how easily telegraphed his attacks are, he barely attacks here yet in Other M, he attacks almost the whole time! Ghirahim is summoned by an AT. Ridley has to be slapped. There's a difference. Sakurai also showed he doesn't care about Ridley as he considers joining sides after being slapped is more accurate to Ridley's canon than having small wings, oops! Ridley has small wings in every 2D game outside of Smash 4!
 

Schnee117

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So Ridley attacks 3 seconds later... seriously? That is one of your gripes? It still sounds very trivial.
And it IS Ridley, the problem is that you guys still think that that is the Metroid universe, but it's not. It's the Smash universe. Him joining you or not has nothing to do with a character's personality or what he/she would do in their game of origin. It's just merely a gameplay feature to have him rampaging on your side.
I can make a similar case for Ghirahim: "He would never side himself with Link, Zelda or any of the other heroes. Sakurai has made a disservice to him in this game, if he cared to staying true to his character he would have made him obey Ganon, and Ganon only, while turning onto whoever summoned him as well." See how pointless it is? Everyone can play that game. But of course, Ridley.
If you're going to compare Ridley to anyone then do so with Metal Face or Yellow Devil and not an assist trophy.
Yellow Devil is completely accurate.
Metal Face is also accurate.
Ridley... Is an epic failure in comparison.
 

Cutie Gwen

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If you're going to compare Ridley to anyone then do so with Metal Face or Yellow Devil and not an assist trophy.
Yellow Devil is completely accurate.
Metal Face is also accurate.
Ridley... Is an epic failure in comparison.
Metal Face isn't accurate, though he's a coward, he doesn't sit there doing nothing until you come close to him in Xenoblade
 

Schnee117

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Metal Face isn't accurate, though he's a coward, he doesn't sit there doing nothing until you come close to him in Xenoblade
One thing out of everything else he has that's accurate. It's a hell of a lot better than the pathetic excuse Sakurai gave us for Ridley.

Maybe Sakurai should have let Capcom handle developing Ridley...
we could have gotten something similarto this...
"B-B-But don't you see?! He'd be too OP!"
 
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