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Ryu Myuutsu

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If you're going to compare Ridley to anyone then do so with Metal Face or Yellow Devil and not an assist trophy.
Yellow Devil is completely accurate.
Metal Face is also accurate.
Ridley... Is an epic failure in comparison.
Nah, the real reason you consider Ridley a "failure" is because he is not playable as you wanted him to be. Otherwise he is fine.
The Assist Trophy comparison is still accurate and valid just like the NPC enemies in Smash Run and so on.

Fight Ridley in any other game, he's pretty fast, by the attack speed I meant how easily telegraphed his attacks are, he barely attacks here yet in Other M, he attacks almost the whole time! Ghirahim is summoned by an AT. Ridley has to be slapped. There's a difference. Sakurai also showed he doesn't care about Ridley as he considers joining sides after being slapped is more accurate to Ridley's canon than having small wings, oops! Ridley has small wings in every 2D game outside of Smash 4!
Actually, regardless of how you feel about Ridley, it is untrue to say that Sakurai didn't care about him. It so happens that he did care about him in his own way which is why he is unique when compared to the other NPCs. It is more accurate to say that he didn't have the same undying devotion for him like you guys do but that doesn't equal being indifferent.
And please, Ridley has to be attacked, not slapped (unless the move in question is a literal slap). Let's not make this sound worse than it is. I can say the same thing about Ghirahim: "Since when Ghirahim became Link/Zelda's lapdog? He would never do their bidding even if they tried to summon him. Sakurai robbed him of his dignity and made him be someone else's *****." But then again, Ridley.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Nah, the real reason you consider Ridley a "failure" is because he is not playable as you wanted him to be. Otherwise he is fine.
The Assist Trophy comparison is still accurate and valid just like the NPC enemies in Smash Run and so on.



Actually, regardless of how you feel about Ridley, it is untrue to say that Sakurai didn't care about him. It so happens that he did care about him in his own way which is why he is unique when compared to the other NPCs. It is more accurate to say that he didn't have the same undying devotion for him like you guys do but that doesn't equal being indifferent.
And please, Ridley has to be attacked, not slapped (unless the move in question is a literal slap). Let's not make this sound worse than it is. I can say the same thing about Ghirahim: "Since when Ghirahim became Link/Zelda's lapdog? He would never do their bidding even if they tried to summon him. Sakurai robbed him of his dignity and made him be someone else's *****." But then again, Ridley.
I don't think you get it, Ridley acts nothing like he does. Imagine if Sakurai said Ghirahim isn't playable because, say, having white hair is against his character, how would you feel? Same thing when Sakurai said wings. If Ridley were an AT, I wouldn't have this problem, the problem is how he can be slapped to join sides, something against his personality. An AT is a summon, summons attack for you, that makes sense. Ridley is a boss, you slap the boss and he suddenly won't hurt you anymore but is still alive. This doesn't
 

Schnee117

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Nah, the real reason you consider Ridley a "failure" is because he is not playable as you wanted him to be. Otherwise he is fine.
The Assist Trophy comparison is still accurate and valid just like the NPC enemies in Smash Run and so on.
Holy crazy assumptions Batman!
Whilst, yes being playable is ideal, Sakurai could have done so much better than the awful model we got and the awful AI he has plus his "slave" mode.
I'd have preferred he be an assist trophy allowing for him to be a better representation of himself rather than the poor excuse for a stage hazard.

ASSIST Trophies (The hint is in the bloody name) are made to assist whoever summoned them (with exceptions being the mischievous Skull Kid with Majora's Mask and Nightmare).
Stage Hazards are made to be a Hazard for that stage and having the "Meta" effect was unique enough for Ridley.
Smash Run enemies. Again they're enemies in one game mode. It's in the name.
 
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NonSpecificGuy

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It's safe to say that Ridley was much better represented in Brawl's Subspace Emmisary.
 

Ryu Myuutsu

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I don't think you get it, Ridley acts nothing like he does. Imagine if Sakurai said Ghirahim isn't playable because, say, having white hair is against his character, how would you feel? Same thing when Sakurai said wings. If Ridley were an AT, I wouldn't have this problem, the problem is how he can be slapped to join sides, something against his personality. An AT is a summon, summons attack for you, that makes sense. Ridley is a boss, you slap the boss and he suddenly won't hurt you anymore but is still alive. This doesn't
Ehem, when you attack the boss. And again, the character's personality has nothing to do with that. You can apply the same arguments to the rest of the NPCs in Smash Bros. but at the end of the day it becomes pointless because it is about a gameplay feature and not something that they would do or not do in their game of origin. AT, bosses, enemies, etc., I don't understand why Ridley's case as a stage boss has to be so sacred. I don't know about you but I enjoy every second of Ridley fighting by my side and laying waste on my enemies.
By the way, in Brawl you could fight Petey Piranha as Bowser. Bowser is his boss so wouldn't that be going against his character?
Holy crazy assumptions Batman!
Whilst, yes being playable is ideal, Sakurai could have done so much better than the awful model we got and the awful AI he has plus his "slave" mode.
I'd have preferred he be an assist trophy allowing for him to be a better representation of himself rather than the poor excuse for a stage hazard.

ASSIST Trophies (The hint is in the bloody name) are made to assist whoever summoned them (with exceptions being the mischievous Skull Kid with Majora's Mask and Nightmare).
Stage Hazards are made to be a Hazard for that stage and having the "Meta" effect was unique enough for Ridley.
Smash Run enemies. Again they're enemies in one game mode. It's in the name.
"Slave mode", well we are still getting mileage off from playing that victim card, so why not?
Question: Why does it matter what they are called when NPCs in Smash have a variety of effects and actions? Or perhaps a better question, what makes you determine where do you start to draw the line about how a stage hazard should/shouldn't act relative to the other NPCs such as AT and enemies? There just isn't a guideline set on stone and which is why my previous comparisons still apply to the case; Koopas attacking Bowser, the Ghirahim situation, etc. A good start would simply be to stop getting offended by such harmless things.

But of course, this situation is an exception because...

IT

IS

RIDLEY
 

Cutie Gwen

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Ehem, when you attack the boss. And again, the character's personality has nothing to do with that. You can apply the same arguments to the rest of the NPCs in Smash Bros. but at the end of the day it becomes pointless because it is about a gameplay feature and not something that they would do or not do in their game of origin. AT, bosses, enemies, etc., I don't understand why Ridley's case as a stage boss has to be so sacred. I don't know about you but I enjoy every second of Ridley fighting by my side and laying waste on my enemies.
By the way, in Brawl you could fight Petey Piranha as Bowser. Bowser is his boss so wouldn't that be going against his character?


"Slave mode", well we are still getting mileage off from playing that victim card, so why not?
Question: Why does it matter what they are called when NPCs in Smash have a variety of effects and actions? Or perhaps a better question, what makes you determine where do you start to draw the line about how a stage hazard should/shouldn't act relative to the other NPCs such as AT and enemies? There just isn't a guideline set on stone and which is why my previous comparisons still apply to the case; Koopas attacking Bowser, the Ghirahim situation, etc. A good start would simply be to stop getting offended by such harmless things.

But of course, this situation is an exception because...

IT

IS

RIDLEY
Ghirahim is an Assist Trophy. All Assist Trophies join your side to attack
Ridley is one of 5 bosses. Ridley is the only one who joins sides. Nabbit would have been more fitting for that as he actually does help in Luigi U multiplayer. The problem isn't just personality but how, like you said, Ridley's the one exception. Why is Ridley the only boss who joins your side?
 

Ryu Myuutsu

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Ghirahim is an Assist Trophy. All Assist Trophies join your side to attack
Ridley is one of 5 bosses. Ridley is the only one who joins sides. Nabbit would have been more fitting for that as he actually does help in Luigi U multiplayer. The problem isn't just personality but how, like you said, Ridley's the one exception. Why is Ridley the only boss who joins your side?
Because why not? He is Ridley, and we love him and he becomes my best friend when I play in Pyrosphere. And it certainly would be neat if there were other bosses likes this in my opinion, I would've love to have Rayquaza fight by my side.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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Because why not? He is Ridley, and we love him and he becomes my best friend when I play in Pyrosphere. And it certainly would be neat if there were other bosses likes this in my opinion, I would've love to have Rayquaza fight by my side.
'Because why not' Not a valid excuse. Making Ridley break character just because why not isn't good enough. If Sakurai wanted us to have Ridley as a boss he could have made a boss mode in which you play as the bosses.
Rayquaza joining your side actually makes sense because of how Pokemon works. Ridley kills for fun, that's his only goal, killing as much as he can
 

Ryu Myuutsu

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Oh but is, "Why not?" is a valid excuse applicable to all of Smash and crossovers in general. Better than the case you guys been mounting against his current appearance actually.
...
Man, I'm getting tired of talking about this today and my mind is just wandering.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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Oh but is, "Why not?" is a valid excuse applicable to all of Smash and crossovers in general. Better than the case you guys been mounting against his current appearance actually.
...
Man, I'm getting tired of talking about this today.
Ridley is the leader of a group of murderers. Notice how I said leader. As in, the one in charge. As in, the one not taking **** from anyone
 

Ryu Myuutsu

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Yes, just like Ghirahim... and Dark Samus... and Andross... and Mother Brain...and the Koopas... and Ganon unless he is in a team battle with Zelda or Link...and so on, etc. etc. etc.
 
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Schnee117

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Yes, just like Ghirahim... and Dark Samus... and Andross... and Mother Brain...and the Koopas... and Ganon unless he is in a team battle with Zelda or Link...and so on, etc. etc. etc.
Last I checked the Koopas were Bowser's minions and they take a fair amount of abuse from Bowser.
 

meleebrawler

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Um, you do realize that if Sakurai did this, he would seriously p*** off a ton of people who really want these characters right?
It'd be kind of like holding a kid's favorite bar of candy just high enough so they can't reach it and then saying "Awww...so close..."

...
Fortunately, Sakurai is not that kind of guy.
Roy and Ryu ARE coming.
Because Sakurai obviously intended those files to be found by hackers.

You DO realize Ridley acts completely different in sm4sh than in Metroid? He flies around doing nothing before realizing there are enemies, he helps out when slapped hard enough and he drains energy from purple things. In Metroid, Ridley's very aggresive, would focus on the person attacking him and has no energy draining capabilities. Sakurai ****ed up with him hard
If Ridley attacked with even half of the speed and ferocity he does in the 2d Metroid games, no one would want to
play Pyrosphere. Bosses in this game attack relatively slowly and infrequently because you're also fighting other players
at the same time
. They'd completely interrupt the flow of battle if they were too aggressive.

But I guess some people just won't be satisfied unless their character completely demolishes the opposition with
no chance of retaliation. Some Mewtwo naysayers feel the same way.
Metal Face isn't accurate, though he's a coward, he doesn't sit there doing nothing until you come close to him in Xenoblade
Also he shouldn't be able to be damaged by anyone but Shulk, but whatever.
 

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Because Sakurai obviously intended those files to be found by hackers.



If Ridley attacked with even half of the speed and ferocity he does in the 2d Metroid games, no one would want to
play Pyrosphere. Bosses in this game attack relatively slowly and infrequently because you're also fighting other players
at the same time
. They'd completely interrupt the flow of battle if they were too aggressive.

But I guess some people just won't be satisfied unless their character completely demolishes the opposition with
no chance of retaliation. Some Mewtwo naysayers feel the same way.


Also he shouldn't be able to be damaged by anyone but Shulk, but whatever.
Ridley joining sides is my main beserk button, him being significantly weaker doesn't help. They shouldn't call them bosses if that's the case.
Technically Shulk can't damage him either, he needs to be toppled
 

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Now, my beef with Roy is that why would we get yet another clone of Marth when we already have Lucina? I guess I could understand if they Luigified him. I mean, a Luigification named Lucas is coming next month after all.

With Ryu, I know very little about Street Fighter because I only played it once on the SNES when I was 5, but wouldn't his fighting style be too similar to Little Mac?

... Whatever. I'm not even going to buy them if they happen to be real.
 

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Now, my beef with Roy is that why would we get yet another clone of Marth when we already have Lucina? I guess I could understand if they Luigified him. I mean, a Luigification named Lucas is coming next month after all.

With Ryu, I know very little about Street Fighter because I only played it once on the SNES when I was 5, but wouldn't his fighting style be too similar to Little Mac?

... Whatever. I'm not even going to buy them if they happen to be real.
Ryu fights with Karate stuff and Hadouken, not boxing techniques, so no, wouldn't be similar
 

Schnee117

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If Ridley attacked with even half of the speed and ferocity he does in the 2d Metroid games, no one would want to
play Pyrosphere
. Bosses in this game attack relatively slowly and infrequently because you're also fighting other players
at the same time
. They'd completely interrupt the flow of battle if they were too aggressive.

But I guess some people just won't be satisfied unless their character completely demolishes the opposition with
no chance of retaliation. Some Mewtwo naysayers feel the same way.
Last I checked Pyrosphere was one of the most hated stages in the game due to the hazards and the bosses interrupt battle too much anyway.
Ridley's slave mechanic and extra stock if you KO him makes everyone rush to beat him up instead of every other fighter.
Flying Man make's it a 2 v1 situation.
Yellow Devil forces players to take to the air or get in the small spot behind him.
Metal Face makes everyone either go for him or avoid him.
Dark Emperor is the least intrusive of them all only changing stats.

Now, my beef with Roy is that why would we get yet another clone of Marth when we already have Lucina? I guess I could understand if they Luigified him. I mean, a Luigification named Lucas is coming next month after all.

With Ryu, I know very little about Street Fighter because I only played it once on the SNES when I was 5, but wouldn't his fighting style be too similar to Little Mac?

... Whatever. I'm not even going to buy them if they happen to be real.
Roy was planned for Brawl but got cut.
Ryu has Hadoukens and Spinning Kicks. That's already far more than Little Mac's Variety of Punches.
 
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meleebrawler

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Ridley joining sides is my main beserk button, him being significantly weaker doesn't help. They shouldn't call them bosses if that's the case.
Technically Shulk can't damage him either, he needs to be toppled
Don't make me bring up the whole "Other M Ridley is different from past Ridleys" debacle over again.
 

Schnee117

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Don't make me bring up the whole "Other M Ridley is different from past Ridleys" debacle over again.
It's irrelevant. Ridley's trophy in SSB4 includes titles that don't include Clone Ridley and it's apparent memories were retained. Why else specifically target Samus instead of the guy with the whopping massive Plasma Gun that caused him to run off during the Adolescent Ridley battle?
 

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I kinda agree with the naysayers/detractors here. Sakurai kinda dropped the ball not including Ridley as a playable character. Instead we got a big purple dunderhead of a stage hazard, couched behind that gimmick that doesn't justify the character in any other context beyond being an obstacle.

"Not the same character?" Please.

Smooth Criminal
 

meleebrawler

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It's irrelevant. Ridley's trophy in SSB4 includes titles that don't include Clone Ridley and it's apparent memories were retained. Why else specifically target Samus instead of the guy with the whopping massive Plasma Gun that caused him to run off during the Adolescent Ridley battle?
Because he saw firsthand what Samus could do, unlike the other Marines? And how would he know what a
massive Plasma Gun is or what it does, not to mention Anthony was doing jack squat as far as he was concerned
until the shot.
 

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Because he saw firsthand what Samus could do, unlike the other Marines? And how would he know what a
massive Plasma Gun is or what it does, not to mention Anthony was doing jack squat as far as he was concerned
until the shot.
That makes no sense, Ridley was shot at by Anthony in his adolescent form and fought him later on. In his adolescent fight all he does when you hit him is pull his tail back. Anthony sent him flying with one shot
 

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Because he saw firsthand what Samus could do, unlike the other Marines? And how would he know what a
massive Plasma Gun is or what it does, not to mention Anthony was doing jack squat as far as he was concerned
until the shot.
Because Ridley's an intelligent being contrary to popular belief?
The Plasma Gun takes forever to charge but when it's charged it can cause serious injuries. As Ridley found out whilst distracted by Samus. Yeah I'd want to take out the guy with the big gun first so there's no interference whilst I toy about with my defenceless prey.
 

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Idk why people think Ridley is a big blockhead. To be a leader of a bunch of marauders like the Space Pirates requires more than animal cunning; you gotta be devious and ruthless to do so, as well as intelligent (especially when you consider the kinda resources they ended up exploiting).

Smooth Criminal
 

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That makes no sense, Ridley was shot at by Anthony in his adolescent form and fought him later on. In his adolescent fight all he does when you hit him is pull his tail back. Anthony sent him flying with one shot
In his "Little Birdie" form he sees Samus shoot the sh** out of some creatures, then he gets her to kill the Kihunter
hive for nourishment. Plenty of evidence for him to see her as a threat. Whereas Anthony pretty much just sits there
doing nothing until his shot was ready, and it doesn't help that he was too focused on stabbing Samus to see him.
Obviously when he reaches his last form he wises up and knocks him into the lava.

Because Ridley's an intelligent being contrary to popular belief?
The Plasma Gun takes forever to charge but when it's charged it can cause serious injuries. As Ridley found out whilst distracted by Samus. Yeah I'd want to take out the guy with the big gun first so there's no interference whilst I toy about with my defenceless prey.
Remember that he was just recently reborn, so he doesn't have all the memories, knowledge or experience he had before.
Also remember that the Space Pirates would never have become an organized group without Mother Brain guiding them.
How old is Ridley before Other M? How much time did he have to learn about flying ships and warfare before Samus was born?
And how much of that knowledge came from Mother Brain?
 

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In his "Little Birdie" form he sees Samus shoot the sh** out of some creatures, then he gets her to kill the Kihunter
hive for nourishment. Plenty of evidence for him to see her as a threat. Whereas Anthony pretty much just sits there
doing nothing until his shot was ready, and it doesn't help that he was too focused on stabbing Samus to see him.
Obviously when he reaches his last form he wises up and knocks him into the lava.



Remember that he was just recently reborn, so he doesn't have all the memories, knowledge or experience he had before.
Also remember that the Space Pirates would never have become an organized group without Mother Brain guiding them.
How old is Ridley before Other M? How much time did he have to learn about flying ships and warfare before Samus was born?
And how much of that knowledge came from Mother Brain?
Again, Ridley only got damaged when Samus hit his tail, and that didn't do much. Anthony shoots him once and makes him run.
Manga says Ridley had a ship and destroyed multiple colonies on his own BEFORE Mother Brain rebelled
 

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Again, Ridley only got damaged when Samus hit his tail, and that didn't do much. Anthony shoots him once and makes him run.
Manga says Ridley had a ship and destroyed multiple colonies on his own BEFORE Mother Brain rebelled
You're just not getting what I'm saying, do you? Prior to shooting Ridley while he was occupied with Samus, what did
Anthony do to threaten Ridley? And look at it this way: when you saw that cutscene for the first time, did you REALLY see that plasma shot coming?

Also we still don't know how old Ridley is. And just how closely is the manga tied to the games?
 
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Schnee117

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In his "Little Birdie" form he sees Samus shoot the sh** out of some creatures, then he gets her to kill the Kihunter
hive for nourishment. Plenty of evidence for him to see her as a threat. Whereas Anthony pretty much just sits there
doing nothing until his shot was ready, and it doesn't help that he was too focused on stabbing Samus to see him.
Obviously when he reaches his last form he wises up and knocks him into the lava.

Remember that he was just recently reborn, so he doesn't have all the memories, knowledge or experience he had before.
Also remember that the Space Pirates would never have become an organized group without Mother Brain guiding them.
How old is Ridley before Other M? How much time did he have to learn about flying ships and warfare before Samus was born?
And how much of that knowledge came from Mother Brain?
The Space Pirates operated long before they invaded Zebes which was when Mother Brain joined them. Ridley led the Space Pirate raid on Samus' home planet. I'd call that organisation and to be able to lead an attack you need a vast amount of knowledge and experience.

That's the genetic memories he had of his greatest enemy kicking in. He originally thought of the other Feds as not a threat until Anthony shot him with his Plasma Gun. Ridley's flaw is often under estimating his foes due to his superiority complex. He repeats that mistake again in the Power Plant where Anthony is able to charge another Plasma Shot and distract Ridley long enough for Samus to regain her composure. Ridley knew the gun took time to charge up but instead of taking Anthony out of the equation immediately he goes right for his Nemesis underestimating the charge on the Plasma Gun. That's the hatred kicking in.

You're just not getting what I'm saying, do you? Prior to shooting Ridley while he was occupied with Samus, what did
Anthony do to threaten Ridley?

Also we still don't know how old Ridley is. And just how closely is the manga tied to the games?
Remember Samus' PTSD attack? Simply seeing Ridley again wouldn't have done it unless he'd done something traumatic to her previously. That would be killing her mother right in front of 3 year old Samus' eyes and then later on taunting her about eating her parents. This hatred is evident in Prime 3 as well where Samus aims to violently finish off Meta Ridley by blasting him down his throat and how Ridley specifically hid there waiting for her.
 
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So how bout that Mewtwo.

I am sad that he is still light as hell.

Also found this from last year.
 
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The Space Pirates operated long before they invaded Zebes which was when Mother Brain joined them. Ridley led the Space Pirate raid on Samus' home planet. I'd call that organisation and to be able to lead an attack you need a vast amount of knowledge and experience.

That's the genetic memories he had of his greatest enemy kicking in. He originally thought of the other Feds as not a threat until Anthony shot him with his Plasma Gun. Ridley's flaw is often under estimating his foes due to his superiority complex. He repeats that mistake again in the Power Plant where Anthony is able to charge another Plasma Shot and distract Ridley long enough for Samus to regain her composure. Ridley knew the gun took time to charge up but instead of taking Anthony out of the equation immediately he goes right for his Nemesis underestimating the charge on the Plasma Gun. That's the hatred kicking in.



Remember Samus' PTSD attack? Simply seeing Ridley again wouldn't have done it unless he'd done something traumatic to her previously. That would be killing her mother right in front of 3 year old Samus' eyes and then later on taunting her about eating her parents. This hatred is evident in Prime 3 as well where Samus aims to violently finish off Meta Ridley by blasting him down his throat and how Ridley specifically hid there waiting for her.
Well, all right: nothing in the games contradicts the manga so I guess we can consider it canon.

So Ridley doesn't need Mother Brain to learn about warfare. Cool. So I guess the only thing he got from her was a
desire to conquer the galaxy as opposed to random pillaging and violence?

Your theory about Ridley's motivations in Other M does sound valid too. We have no conclusive evidence of how much Ridley
remembers anyway.
 

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Smash Apprentice
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Mar 3, 2015
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Final Destination
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Twishine
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Now, my beef with Roy is that why would we get yet another clone of Marth when we already have Lucina? I guess I could understand if they Luigified him. I mean, a Luigification named Lucas is coming next month after all.

With Ryu, I know very little about Street Fighter because I only played it once on the SNES when I was 5, but wouldn't his fighting style be too similar to Little Mac?

... Whatever. I'm not even going to buy them if they happen to be real.
Roy actually has more differences than those between Marth/Lucina

Ex: Faster falling speed, different N-Special, close attack range, etc. (Melee Roy tho. Ike served as a sort of replacement, and likely he'd be fixed up a bit like Mewtwo was.)

Ryu would have projectiles (Hadouken), and probably have a more combo-focused fighting style, because you know, he's from a fighting game. Would be interesting to see what would be done with him, or any other ballot character.
 

Cutie Gwen

Lovely warrior
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
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Somewhere out there on this big blue marble
Well, all right: nothing in the games contradicts the manga so I guess we can consider it canon.
Technically that's untrue because Sakamoto can't write for ****.
The infamous Varia suit scene. In Fusion, Adam warned Samus to stay away from areas with temperatures not to handle
Adam is pissed because Samus left the GF due to her regretting she disoveyed him, in the manga, Samus disobeyed him as she wanted to go to Zebes to settle things with Ridley, Mother Brain, etc. Adam permits it, and after she succeeds, Adam suggests that Samus becomes a bounty hunter and that it'd be better for her.
Anthony exists here.
Samus got over her Ridley trauma and beat him later after a realistic trauma attack.
Sakamoto wrote the manga, Fusion and Other M, so he's incompetent as a writer
 
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