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[Deleted member]

But still, him having to be played defensively means that he isn't a good enough character to rush opponents down due to being too vulnerable. Anybody can play defensively, so that's insignificant, however not everybody completely excels at offensively play, which means that you have to be a coward just to stand a chance. Heck, even Robin can go rushdown and find success, ROBIN, but Mewtwo is pathetic.

Also, it only takes me about a day to quote "develop a character", because I am a self-trained Smasher, and I have been playing Mewtwo for a long time now and can clearly see that he will suffer the same fate as Zelda: being a campy, pathetic character who you better not rush down... or you'll destroy them before they (Zelda/Myuutsu) even has a chance to move.

 

[Tom13]

I don't normally get very worked up over something as trivial as tier placement, but I can't stand to see people call Mewtwo low tier, at least not at this point in time. He may very well be low tier, but, for now, there's no way to tell for sure. People think Mewtwo is bad because they can't win with him the first few time they try him. That might've been possible back when Smash 4 first came out, and that's because nobody was really sure how to use their character at the time. Mewtwo came out one week ago. It's way too early to definitely determine Mewtwo's tier placement, simply because his meta hasn't fully developed, whereas every other character's meta has had a decent amount of time to grow and develop. Of course you're going to get your behind whooped the first several times you use Mewtwo: nobody has had time to completely learn how to play him, whereas all of the other characters' playstyles are more or less defined at this point. Give it some time.
From what we know right now, Mewtwo is a character that relies on zoning, pressure and a defensive playstyle in order to force the opponents approach and attack him. Once the opponent slips up and is vulnerable, Mewtwo has to rush in and punish them for it, something that he's apparently pretty good at. At this point, that's how we think Mewtwo should be played. We haven't discovered all of his combos, we haven't found all of his strong suits and techniques, and we most certainly haven't developed Mewtwo's meta to the point that the rest of the cast has reached. Everything takes time, and we just need to settle back and give Mewtwo some time to evolve and grow. Simple as that.

Also, shofu thinks Mewtwo is decent, and Jtails thinks Mewtwo is in the top 15, so take that for what you will.

I think Mewtwo is better than he was in Melee, I can now use Confusion and Disable to mess with my opponents. Although I'm sure future patches can make him even better.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

...Robin can't rushdown well. At all.

Okay, I think I'm going to stop responding to this guy. He has a right to be disappointed but sheeeesh

Smooth Criminal

 

[U-Throw]

Also, it only takes me about a day to quote "develop a character", because I am a self-trained Smasher, and I have been playing Mewtwo for a long time now and can clearly see that he will suffer the same fate as Zelda:

So, tell me, what's it like to have an ego so big that it won't fit through your front door?

 

[Deleted member]

...Robin can't rushdown well. At all.

Okay, I think I'm going to stop responding to this guy. He has a right to be disappointed but sheeeesh

Smooth Criminal

He can, and perhaps if the chance become available, than I can show you

So, tell me, what's it like to have an ego so big that it won't fit through your front door?

Okay, I have to give you credit there. That was a good one.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

No thanks, online play doesn't really prove a damn thing.

Not to mention, as U-Throw insinuated, your ego pains me.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Cutie Gwen]

He can, and perhaps if the chance become available, than I can show you


Okay, I have to give you credit there. That was a good one.

The slowest character in the game with piss poor grab range who relies heavily on projectiles isn't a rushdown character. Rushdowns are quick and able to deal major damage with combo's Pit and Sheik being examples

 

[Deleted member]

The slowest character in the game with piss poor grab range who relies heavily on projectiles isn't a rushdown character. Rushdowns are quick and able to deal major damage with combo's Pit and Sheik being examples

You don't always have to have a lot of combos to be a rushdown character, but even still, I hold true to the fact that Robin has rushdown potential, and I can say for a fact that his potential practically eclipses Mewtwo's.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Ego aside I rather like the effect on one's mind of having a full charge shadow ball can "unnerve" an opponent and once Mewtwo gets a combo going he can really apply his Pressure.

Pokémon abilities for ya.

Is Robin slower then Dorf?

 

[Deleted member]

Ego aside I rather like the effect on one's mind of having a full charge shadow ball can "unnerve" an opponent and once Mewtwo gets a combo going he can really apply his Pressure.

Pokémon abilities for ya.

Mewtwo is so bad that I developed "insomnia" trying to make him viable. However, he still sucks, so I'll have to hold Steadfast through all of this, and hope for the best.

Pokémon abilities for ya.

 

[DrRiceBoy]

Ego aside I rather like the effect on one's mind of having a full charge shadow ball can "unnerve" an opponent and once Mewtwo gets a combo going he can really apply his Pressure.

Pokémon abilities for ya.

Is Robin slower then Dorf?

Yeah Robin is reallyyyyyyyyyyyy slow.

 

[Demon-oni]

But still, him having to be played defensively means that he isn't a good enough character to rush opponents down due to being too vulnerable. Anybody can play defensively, so that's insignificant, however not everybody completely excels at offensively play, which means that you have to be a coward just to stand a chance. Heck, even Robin can go rushdown and find success, ROBIN, but Mewtwo is pathetic.

Also, it only takes me about a day to quote "develop a character", because I am a self-trained Smasher, and I have been playing Mewtwo for a long time now and can clearly see that he will suffer the same fate as Zelda: being a campy, pathetic character who you better not rush down... or you'll destroy them before they (Zelda/Myuutsu) even has a chance to move.

Just gonna block after replying to this one because you refuse to listen to anything anybody else says in an attempt of discussion.

1. Not everyone can play defensively well. Tell that to a Sheik or a Meta knight. Sure they can be defensive, but their tools straight up don't work well defensively and would suck if they had to force an approach whereas Mewtwo literally NEVER HAS TO APPROACH because of his moveset. If Mewtwo never wanted to, he could stay within the same 5 square feet and still be useful.

2. He isn't too vulnerable. Most of his attacks are actually fairly ok and even safe, and if space properly are usually hard to punish for most characters because he outranges any non swordsman by a good margin. The only move in this game I can think of that's even 90% safe in close range is Sheiks fair so I don't know what you're on about safety for moves. If you get up and try to face hug someone with a fair I won't feel sorry for you for the inevitable tilt punish because that's your fault completely.

3. Standing there to be a coward? Bro, some characters just work better playing at a range and forcing approach. It's called a "Zoner" character in the fighting community. It may seem like spam and camping to scrubs, but for some characters it can be the right way to play. You don't see Dizzy in Guilty Gear trying to face roll a Faust or V-13 in Blazblue rushing down a Tager. If it doesn't make sense to rush down with that character in a matchup, why in the ever loving hell would you do it?

4. One day to develop a character? So I suppose I should look to your youtube videos of all your tournament success beating Mewtwo King, right? You might able to learn about their moveset, but developing the character, learning their ins and outs in every matchup, figuring out new tech on a frame to frame basis, is a time long battle that lasts as long as the games life itself. And you're judging a character that the "great" you can't figure out after a week of play? All I'm gonna say is if you don't like him bro, that's cool, but don't spread your misinformed negativity here.

 

[SuperNintendoKid]

Ego aside I rather like the effect on one's mind of having a full charge shadow ball can "unnerve" an opponent and once Mewtwo gets a combo going he can really apply his Pressure.

Pokémon abilities for ya.

Is Robin slower then Dorf?

Robin is THE slowest in terms of dashing speed, fact.

 

[Deleted member]

Robin is THE slowest in terms of dashing speed, fact.

And yet he's STILL better than Mew-negative-two

 

[DrRiceBoy]

Cmon guys, let's get along. No need to get so worked up about Mewtwo's viability. Let's discuss like gentlemen and gentlewomen. =)

 

[MagiusNecros]

Mario Smith is having what is called Smash Bros Identity Crisis. Probably needs a day or two to come back to Mewtwo.

I had this before with Bowser but I adapted.

 

[Deleted member]

Mario Smith is having what is called Smash Bros Identity Crisis. Probably needs a day or two to come back to Mewtwo.

I had this before with Bowser but I adapted.

A Smash Bros Identity Crisis, eh? Don't make me laugh. A bad character is a bad character.

 

[BugCatcherWill]

Relevant

 

[MagiusNecros]

A Smash Bros Identity Crisis, eh? Don't make me laugh. A bad character is a bad character.

I dunno man. Jab 1 into Disable is the truth.

 

[mobilisq]

I just had an amazing set against a friend, which included teching ganon's dair point blank. Anybody willing to record it?

 

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

This thread, it seems that it's alive again.

As for Mewtwo being viable, there isn't much I can add here.

 

[SleuthMechanism]

AAGH! STOP PLAYING DEFENSIVELY!!! That's how you beat them! I love fighting Captain Falcon and Sonic, they are easy! But if you keep camping/defending, then of course You are going to get shredded!

I generally play mewtwo as a opportunistic midrange pressure based character but this is honestly the worst thing you could do vs sonic wherein the whole matchup is basically trying to keep the blue ******* off of you lest he combo and juggle you for days,
@ Demon-oni : You are officially my favourite person in this thread, as one who leans towards playing zoners such as nu-13 in most traditional fighting games it irritates the crap out of me when people in the smash community keep jumping on any effective use of projectiles as "camping". That said i really don't think zoning is as well implemented as a playstyle in smash due to the nature of the game being based on knocking the opponent out of the field rather than just doing damage. Really, the only characters with well made zoning in this game i find are..
1. the links(in parcular toon link, who emphasises it more) due to their playstyle being based on using projectiles to try to open the opponent up and then get an opportunity to land the big hits
2. Duckhunt since his entire toolset is based around it and trapping the opponent into situations where they will get blown up by the can.
and 3. Rosalina(though she's more of a midrange zoner)

As for mewtwo's viability. I like him but i can't lie that to be honest i think he's rather terrible here.He has potential but feels like he has far more weaknesses than notable strengths and also feels like he's several tools away from having a good kit.

 

[Igzex]

Hey now, let's just respect how others feel about Mewtwo. Not everybody simply likes Mewtwo for being Mewtwo.

It's a shame that a lot of people don't like how Mewtwo plays in this game. We shouldn't hate them for it though because in the end it's their preference.

I don't respect anyone who doesn't want me to play as Mewtwo in super smash bros ever again because they can't win their competitive matchups with her.

 

[DrRiceBoy]

I don't respect anyone who doesn't want me to play as Mewtwo in super smash bros ever again because they can't win their competitive matchups with her.

I was referring to those that were hating on others for not liking Mewtwo because he's bad. It's perfectly fine to dislike a character because they don't like how the character plays. There is no reason to shame these people... they can play however they want with whatever character they want. In the end, it's their choice to like or dislike a character.

Your point is fair though. I agree as well. I too think it's unreasonable. You can dislike a character but it's unfair if you don't want others to play the character because you personally dislike it.

 

[Demon-oni]

I generally play mewtwo as a opportunistic midrange pressure based character but this is honestly the worst thing you could do vs sonic wherein the whole matchup is basically trying to keep the blue ******* off of you lest he combo and juggle you for days,
@ Demon-oni : You are officially my favourite person in this thread, as one who leans towards playing zoners such as nu-13 in most traditional fighting games it irritates the crap out of me when people in the smash community keep jumping on any effective use of projectiles as "camping". That said i really don't think zoning is as well implemented as a playstyle in smash due to the nature of the game being based on knocking the opponent out of the field rather than just doing damage. Really, the only characters with well made zoning in this game i find are..
1. the links(in parcular toon link, who emphasises it more) due to their playstyle being based on using projectiles to try to open the opponent up and then get an opportunity to land the big hits
2. Duckhunt since his entire toolset is based around it and trapping the opponent into situations where they will get blown up by the can.
and 3. Rosalina(though she's more of a midrange zoner)

As for mewtwo's viability. I like him but i can't lie that to be honest i think he's rather terrible here.He has potential but feels like he has far more weaknesses than notable strengths and also feels like he's several tools away from having a good kit.

Zoning has a different feel but is overall the same in smash as is any fighter. You use it to control space to force the opponent into aggressive plays. But since smash has a good number of reflectors, match ups can turn on their heads if a character is mostly about zoning with projectiles and not just long reach tilts. There just isn't a character that can combo projectiles like V-13 but overall I can compare a general amount of styles to each smash character.

Like I said before, I view Mewtwo as around the bottom of high or the top of mid. He's good, maybe used as an occasional pick, but not top tier. I of course could be wrong, but anyone claiming Mewtwo is bottom whens there's the likes of Charizard baffles me. He has too many tools for his low weight to anchor him that low. Unless we are saying Jiggz is complete garbage too.

 

[SleuthMechanism]

To not want a unique playstyle back just because you feared that it would be bad again is just.. really dumb and selfish for lack of more eloquent terms. for example I never thought zelda was good in the actual smash games(shes awesome in project m though) but she contributd a interesting and entirely unique moveset and always had potential to be better so to not have her return would be a great loss.(as was what happened in brawl with mewtwo and smash 4 with wolf, ivy, squirtle, and the climbers(though the last few are understandable))Having the character in and bad is ALWAYS better then not having them at all if they have a original moveset.I'd still like it if K.Rool came in as DLC even if he was bottom tier for example.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Charizard bottom tier? Them fighting words.

 

[SleuthMechanism]

^this. Honestly i think he's severely underrated. Not the best but not THAT bad at all. especially after the (albeit minor)buffs he got in the patch.If you want to talk bottom tier take a look at zelda.(and maybe falco, since honestly he undeservedly got hit with the nerf stick the hardest)

 

[Demon-oni]

I'm open for someone to fight me with a good zard to prove me wrong, but I believe zelda is more underrated than Charizard. Heck even Falco has tech you have to respect.

 

[LIQUID12A]

Mewtwo's meta is under a month old.

Let it expand before discussing viability.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Zelda is so underrated she still free falls after aerial side b.

 

[BugCatcherWill]

Zelda is so underrated she still free falls after aerial side b.

To quote on of my fellow smashers:
"They had three games, THREE GAMES, to make Zelda good! And they failed yet again."

 

[meleebrawler]

Mewtwo having slower/weaker tail attacks, plenty of attacks which are the same (which is makes him worst in the Smash 4 environment), laggier Smash attacks (namely Side-Smash/Down-Smash), a cheap, visually-inaccurate, floaty teleport, an unusually high jump from confusion (which lowers reflecting potential, a Shadow Ball that not only takes longer to charge, but doesn't reward you (via charge damage) for wasting about 4 seconds of the match, the loss of double jump cancelling, Mewtwo having killpower... NERFED killpower, and Mewtwo not being able to reliably combo isn't a nerf?

Tail attacks... weaker? Have you ever seen an ftilt or bair kill in Melee outside of gimps?

Almost all power moves are laggier compared to Melee, but Dsmash seems about the same to me.

Teleport is for sure nerfed in endlag, but aerial horizontal momentum is easy to get used to.

Who says you HAVE to fully charge Shadow Ball all the time? In the time it would take to fully charge a Melee
Shadow Ball, the damage is almost comparable. Think of the insane recoil mobility as a trade-off for charge damage.

Stop taking general engine changes like only Mewtwo suffers from them. Average KO percents are greater in Smash 4
than in Melee, no double-jump canceling opens up new options like rising nair and free airdodges, and everyone is
worse at comboing when you can airdodge without becoming helpless.

Honestly, all this just makes me think that you're butthurt over the fact that for all of the similarities between the two,
you simply can't play Smash 4 Mewtwo like Melee.

 

[---]

Not quite sure how to handle this one, should I scold some of you or should I point out that the Zelda Social is more civil than this?


**** it Sakurai. This all could have been avoided if you gave M2 the Spoon Sword!!

 

[MagiusNecros]

As far as tail attacks are concerned always try to hit them close to the base of the tail. You can tell by the sound if you got a weak or strong hit. And by time you can kill with back throw at an edge your ftilt can also get the job done.

 

[Chiroz]

As far as tail attacks are concerned always try to hit them close to the base of the tail. You can tell by the sound if you got a weak or strong hit. And by time you can kill with back throw at an edge your ftilt can also get the job done.

Huh, didn't know F-Tilt was that strong. Will probably have to test it more.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Huh, didn't know F-Tilt was that strong. Will probably have to test it more.

Did it for me a few times. Kb is greater at the base of the tail though. Granted I do most testing in training. So rage and stale/freshness aren't factored.

 

[---]

Huh, didn't know F-Tilt was that strong. Will probably have to test it more.

I have F-Tilt down for 178%, and B-Throw for 167% on Center BF/Default Mii.

Wouldn't say it's reliable, but it's decent at least. Definitely more reliable at least than B-Air (155%) and it's awkward hitbox.

 

[meleebrawler]

Huh, didn't know F-Tilt was that strong. Will probably have to test it more.

Ftilt and bair are similar in that closer hits are more powerful. This is interesting, as the weak, max spaced
hits keep the opponent in roughly the same position for more spacing, while the strong closer hits knock
them out of Mewtwo's discomfort zone (particulary for Ftilt, pretty much mainly a GTFO move in conjunction with Fthrow)
with KOing just as an added bonus.

Also worth noting that Dtilt also has different damages and knockback angles depending on where you hit,
a close hit hits them straight up I think.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I have F-Tilt down for 178%, and B-Throw for 167% on Center BF/Default Mii.

Wouldn't say it's reliable, but it's decent at least. Definitely more reliable at least than B-Air (155%) and it's awkward hitbox.

Sounds about right.