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[ZephyrZ]

He should have at the very least been a Melee-esque clone, with noticeably altered stats, if he was going to get his own slot, basically. Sakurai's reason for splitting him up with Pit just so he could have a differrent final smash just seems incredibly petty to a lot of people.

I just can't understand that logic. He wasn't really added at the expense of something else.
He's basically a freebie.

And Dark Pit is in only because Sakurai couldn't bear to see him using the Three Sacred Treasures and made a new Final Smash just for him.

So? I still fail to see any problem with that.
And it's not even a new one. It's just Zelda's.

I feel like people only really hate him because of pre-existing prejudices against clones.

 

[LIQUID12A]

So? I still fail to see any problem with that.

Dark Pit could have been a decent clone had they inserted him with different weapons/moves and not carbon copies of Pit's, and not because keeping one thing out of canon regarding the 3 Sacred Treasures was too much for Sakurai. Not using the Dark Pit Staff in the regular moveset was plain fail.

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

He should have at the very least been a Melee-esque clone, with noticeably altered stats, if he was going to get his own slot, basically. Sakurai's reason for splitting him up with Pit just so he could have a differrent final smash just seems incredibly petty to a lot of people.

I do have a Pocket Pittoo, but I still think it was kind of lazy on Sakurai's part to keep nearly everything identical between the two.

I feel as though you be hating the clones.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I would also like a more differentiated Pittoo, but I don't see that to be any reason to hate him as is.
Sakurai has stated several times Dark Pit didn't detract from anything. How can we hate something that has caused no harm?


...I'm sorry for turning this into a clone argument, guys.

 

[ThePsychoWolf]

Don't know if I can speak for anyone else, but I, personally, hate Dark Pit because Kid Icarus having more characters than Metroid, DK, and StarFox is ridiculous. I don't care if he was a freebie, all I see when I look at him is the fact that little ***** is in Sm4sh, and Wolf isn't.

 

[ZephyrZ]

You say that as if Dark Pit was added at the expense of Metroid and DK.
Hating Dark Pit won't do anything to make Wolf playable.

 

[ThePsychoWolf]

You say that as if Dark Pit was added at the expense of Metroid and DK.
Hating Dark Pit won't do anything to make Wolf playable.

Did I say it would?

And no, I never said DP was added at the expense of anything, just would have preferred that older series should get more attention ahead of a series with three games, only one of which was even released in the last 20 years, getting more crap thrown in.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Alright, I could go on, but I'm afraid of this becoming anymore hostile.

So...spoons are cool, right?

 

[U-Throw]

I would also like a more differentiated Pittoo, but I don't see that to be any reason to hate him as is.
Sakurai has stated several times Dark Pit didn't detract from anything. How can we hate something that has caused no harm?


...I'm sorry for turning this into a clone argument, guys.

Nah. I don't mind. Here's what I'd say on it: Firstly, let me say that I do not hate clones. I like them. You're right; they're freebies, and we should enjoy them. That said, however, it's not upset that Dark Pit got in over anybody, per se, it's who could've been promoted from an Alt. into a full character but wasn't because Dark Pit was selected. Namely, Alph. Alph is Olimar's Alt., and he could've easily been made into a clone of Olimar with about as much difference as Dark Pit, but he would've been more. He has a different model, unlike Dark Pit, who is more or less a color swap with an attitude, and Alph also could've had Rock Pikmin put over Purple Pikmin with little to no hitbox edits, because Rock Pikmin are noticeably absent from Olimar's moveset in Smash. In addition, Alph could've had Olimar's Final Smash but with the Hocotate Ship instead. Easy and simple model replacement. And that would've left more time to edit Alph's core moveset, further differentiating him Olimar compared to Dark Pit and Pit.
And let's also not forget that Sakurai's "Dark Pit looks weird using the Three Sacred Treasures" argument is absolute BS.

-Alph uses the SS Dolphin=/=Weird according to Sakurai
-The Koopalings using the Magic Paintbrush and turning into Shadow Mario=/=Weird according to Sakurai
-Dark Pit using the Three Sacred Treasures=Weird according to Sakurai

It just doesn't add up. The only reason Dark Pit got in over Alph is because Kid Icarus: Uprising is Sakurai's latest brainchild. The only reason. And that's why I hate Dark Pit: Because he got in over a far more deserving character from a far more popular series purely because of Sakurai bias.
That's just my two cents on the matter.

 

[ThePsychoWolf]

And it should be noted here that I do not hate clones. Lucina is one of my mains, and I love the fact that Dr. Mario came back. I just don't really feel like Kid Icarus should have received so much attention.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I suppose I am a bit of a hothead, which is why I tried to end the argument earlier.
I was afraid that if I said anything else, I'd say something I'd regret.

It just doesn't add up. The only reason Dark Pit got in over Alph is because Kid Icarus: Uprising is Sakurai's latest brainchild. The only reason. And that's why I hate Dark Pit: Because he got in over a far more deserving character from a far more popular series.
That's just my two cents on the matter.

Alright, this I can understand. I've got no arguments here.

And it should be noted here that I do not hate clones. Lucina is one of my mains, and I love the fact that Dr. Mario came back. I just don't really feel like Kid Icarus should have received so much attention.

...So what do you think of Palutena, then?

 

[U-Throw]

Alright, this I can understand. I've got no arguments here.
...So what do you think of Palutena, then?

I like Palutena. Palutena is cool. She's not a clone, so she didn't get in over Alph, and she has an interesting moveset if you incorporate customs. Palutena, Pit and Alph would've made sense. Palutena, Pit, Dark Pit, and Alph would've made sense. Pit, Palutena, Dark Pit and no Alph doesn't make sense. Alph is only missing because of Dark Pit. Palutena had no impact on the matter. Plus, Palutena had a pretty big fanbase pre-release from what I remember. I can't remember anybody even mentioning Dark Pit before Palutena was revealed. Even after he was teased, I hardly remember anything. Palutena actually made sense and had a fanbase. Dark Pit really wasn't fair. If they had Alph and Dark Pit, then I wouldn't hate him.
Also, for what it's worth, I prefer using Dark Pit compared to Pit, and I like Dark Pit better as a character.

 

[ThePsychoWolf]

Alright, this I can understand. I've got no arguments here.
...So what do you think of Palutena, then?

I actually have no issue with Palutena, aside from her stupid standard moveset. She was expected, her name is in the japanese title of the series, and she's our first playable deity. But there are so many Kid Icarus trophies, Smash Run enemies, music tracks and other crap from Uprising alone that it's honestly kind of made me hate Kid Icarus.

 

[PLATINUM7]

IMO Alph not being upgraded to a clone makes sense. With Dark Pit, Lucina and Dr. Mario it's easy to make small changes to their moveset. With Alph you more or less have to change the characteristics of the Pikmin, which considering their generic qualities doesn't make that much sense to me.

 

[eltacoenojado]

Don't know if I can speak for anyone else, but I, personally, hate Dark Pit because Kid Icarus having more characters than Metroid, DK, and StarFox is ridiculous. I don't care if he was a freebie, all I see when I look at him is the fact that little ***** is in Sm4sh, and Wolf isn't.

This ^^^^^^ So much

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

8 days then we will be so close to seeing mewtwo info


(March is the first month of spring so close to mewtwo smash 4)

And even better for mewtwo (particually lucario and greninja)

 

[skylanders fan]

yeah so excited mewtwo can finaly join the battle as a new fighter

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

...I main Dark Pit.


But yeah, we should all REALLY be hating on Palutena. Seriously, an all new moveset for someone who's barely fought in a series? Sakurai needs to keep his waifu away. KI only needed Pit (& Dark Pit to an extent) to represent it.


I played as a joke at first, but then I mained him (by accident). Now all I do with him is win and make edgy jokes.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Whenever I hear something bad said about Kid Icarus: Uprising a small part of me dies.

Oh well, 'tis the life of a fanboy.

 

[I_hate_usernames]

Whenever I hear something bad said about Kid Icarus: Uprising a small part of me dies.

Oh well, 'tis the life of a fanboy.

Be happy you don't live with me then.

That and my hate for clones (In the smash seance).

 

[PhantomShab]

I agree that Dark Pit only made it in because of Sakurai wanted to shove Kid Icarus into the faces of everyone who plays the game, as if he wasn't doing enough of it already.

And let's also not forget that Sakurai's "Dark Pit looks weird using the Three Sacred Treasures" argument is absolute BS.

Wait, did he really say that? Holy crap, wow. Why is it that when Sakurai opens his mouth, something dumb or hypocritical usually comes out?

-Alph uses the SS Dolphin=/=Weird according to Sakurai
-The Koopalings using the Magic Paintbrush and turning into Shadow Mario=/=Weird according to Sakurai
-Dark Pit using the Three Sacred Treasures=Weird according to Sakurai

Don't forget Ganondorf being an F-Zero pilot=/=weird according to Sakurai.

As for Palutena, I find it repulsive how much special treatment she got in terms of custom moves. All the time spent on those custom (actually completely different) moves could have been spent on actually making Mewtwo for the base game, or, and I know this is an impossible task for even a creative genius of Sakurai's caliber, giving Ganondorf a non-cloned moveset. So all I see with Palutena is "I'm more deserving of development time than every other character!"...and she has a counter move, because apparently there just weren't enough characters with a counter already.

Blegh, there's no way around the fact that Sakurai has a Ridley sized bias toward Kid Icarus and that Smash 4 suffered a bit because of it. And honestly, he's put me off from ever wanting to play a KI game because of this. I know I probably shouldn't feel that way, but all the special treatment Pit and gang got is just disgusting. KI was a dead franchise with only 2 games in the last 2 decades before Sakurai revived it. Why are these (no offense to the fans) nobodies being treated like they're the biggest franchise Nintendo has? What is it about Kid Icarus that just enamours Sakurai so much?

 

[PLATINUM7]

Much Dark Pit hate.
I can't complain, he like Dr. Mario and Lucina are just bonuses. The sprinkles on top of the ice cream. Yet it seems most people only want more ice cream on top of ice cream and hate free sprinkles.
I think that's enough dessert metaphors.
I don't see the big deal of Dark Pit needing a unique final smash. It's not like Sakurai cut some other aspects of the game just to make Dark Pit his own character.
People complain there's little point for them being their own characters, as if just keeping them as costumes would have been infinitely better. I don't see the reasoning there.

 

[U-Throw]

Much Dark Pit hate.
I can't complain, he like Dr. Mario and Lucina are just bonuses. The sprinkles on top of the ice cream. Yet it seems most people only want more ice cream on top of ice cream and hate free sprinkles.
I think that's enough dessert metaphors.
I don't see the big deal of Dark Pit needing a unique final smash. It's not like Sakurai cut some other aspects of the game just to make Dark Pit his own character.
People complain there's little point for them being their own characters, as if just keeping them as costumes would have been infinitely better. I don't see the reasoning there.

I would agree to this. Hating on clones doesn't make sense. I guess I can see what you're saying about Alph being difficult to make into a full character, so that does make Dark Pit the only one left to upgrade. And if that's the case, then I'm fine with Dark Pit as a playable character. Hating on clones just for being clones is senseless, because them being Alts. would be even worse, and they didn't get in over anybody because they were added post-development. There's really no reason to hate them unless they got in over another Alt., and since the only other Alt. is Alph, and he may be considered unviable, there can't really be a reason to hate them any more than regular character.
On Palutena getting unique Custom Moves, I don't really care. I don't know if it was because she's from Kid Icarus, but that likely had at least some influence. That said, one character having unique Customs is better than no characters having unique Customs. There's no evidence that anything was cut because she got unique moves, so I personally don't really see a reason to get upset there.

 

[skylanders fan]

i dont hate dark pit as a charcter I just wist he had a bit more diffrences than just a final smash and new colors for pit

 

[Saikyoshi]

I just can't understand that logic. He wasn't really added at the expense of something else.
He's basically a freebie. So? I still fail to see any problem with that.
And it's not even a new one. It's just Zelda's.

I feel like people only really hate him because of pre-existing prejudices against clones.

He just feels like a lazy addition, even if it's not really. Sakurai famously compared him to a free dessert, but that free dessert is stale and tasteless, which kind of ruins your appetite for the rest of the meal, if you get what I'm saying.
At least the Dr. Mario Soufflé has toppings to make him slightly more digestible, and the Lucina Shakenhas a different thickness than the Marth Shake despite having the same ingredients, so the taste is SLIGHTLY different. But the Dark Pit Cake is just the Pit Cake left in the oven too long; his only differences are reductions of the original; Upperdash > Electroshock, P. Bow > S. Bow.

I just have him as a secondary because I like my food slightly burnt. Like him, I find normal Pit obnoxious (or the Pit Cake is too sweet for me, for the sake of continuing the metaphor), so Pittoo's easier for me to play as. But I would have preferred if it came with a sauce or whipped cream or something.

 

[LIQUID12A]

But yeah, we should all REALLY be hating on Palutena. Seriously, an all new moveset for someone who's barely fought in a series?

R.O.B, G&W, and Duck Hunt didn't fight at all in their game(s). The Miis have their sporting activities that involve fighting, including swordplay and boxing, but they were never on the same level of Smash. You might as well be hating these four as well if you're going by the "this character never fought" argument.

Just saying.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

R.O.B, G&W, and Duck Hunt didn't fight at all in their game(s). The Miis have their sporting activities that involve fighting, including swordplay and boxing, but they were never on the same level of Smash. You might as well be hating these four as well if you're going by the "this character never fought" argument.

Just saying.

True. But I said BARELY.

 

[LIQUID12A]

True. But I said BARELY.

Barely fought, then. Just boxing and swordplay as the closest you get to actual fighting. I don't see any Mii hate if that's the case.

 

[eltacoenojado]

Maybe if they had made some of Dark Pit's custom moves his actual default special moves, then he would feel a little different. I don't hate clones, usually they feel different enough to the extent that I have no problem using them. But Dark pit, to me, just is too similar to Pit to warrant his inclusion. But no hate or offence to Dark Pit lovers. That's just what I think.

 

[Saikyoshi]

R.O.B, G&W, and Duck Hunt didn't fight at all in their game(s). The Miis have their sporting activities that involve fighting, including swordplay and boxing, but they were never on the same level of Smash. You might as well be hating these four as well if you're going by the "this character never fought" argument.

Just saying.

: Judge, Boxing/Punch-out!!, Zelda, Climber, Donkey Kong Jr., Greenhouse, Donkey Kong 3, plenty of others I'm sure I'm forgetting.

: The entire objective of the game is killing things.

Barely fought, then. Just boxing and swordplay as the closest you get to actual fighting. I don't see any Mii hate if that's the case.

You haven't been looking. I'm someone who has a particular attachment to the Miis, so I tend to see a lot of hate for them.

 

[LIQUID12A]

: Judge, Boxing/Punch-out!!, Zelda, Climber, Donkey Kong Jr., Greenhouse, Donkey Kong 3, plenty of others I'm sure I'm forgetting.

: The entire objective of the game is killing things.


You haven't been looking. I'm someone who has a particular attachment to the Miis, so I tend to see a lot of hate for them.

Game and Watch I'll give you.

The Duck Hunt Dog itself, however, never fought. All it did was pick up the ducks the player shot and infamously taunt you if you failed.

Maybe I should browse the other Mii forums then, I only occasionally pop up in the Gunner forum at times.

 

[Jaguar360]

So... Who is the first Character you guys are going to slay as Mewtwo? I myself am going for Ness :O

Psychic battle incoming!

I'm gonna slay Diddy cuz he's a P.O.S.

Focus Blast and/or Aura Sphere.

And Dark Pit is in only because Sakurai couldn't bear to see him using the Three Sacred Treasures and made a new Final Smash just for him.

Dark/Flying type bro. Need to use that Thunderbolt/Ice Beam

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

But Miis were more deserving than Pale Tuna

 

[LIQUID12A]

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u/70755864

*poll for who should voice Mewtwo dating back to December 7th*

See, even GameFaqs has their heads straight.

 

[Saikyoshi]

I can't say I ever liked DAN GREEN's rendition, and... Isn't Ichimura dead? I thought I remembered hearing about that somewhere.

 

[LIQUID12A]

I can't say I ever liked DAN GREEN's rendition, and... Isn't Ichimura dead? I thought I remembered hearing about that somewhere.

He's 66, alive and kicking. And still doing stuff as of 2014.

 

[Saikyoshi]

He's 66, alive and kicking. And still doing stuff as of 2014.

Oh, good... I was actually worried.

 

[Igzex]

I find the lack of Miriam Pultro votes most disturbing.

 

[Aninymouse]

He should have at the very least been a Melee-esque clone, with noticeably altered stats, if he was going to get his own slot, basically. Sakurai's reason for splitting him up with Pit just so he could have a differrent final smash just seems incredibly petty to a lot of people.

I do have a Pocket Pittoo, but I still think it was kind of lazy on Sakurai's part to keep nearly everything identical between the two.

Dark Pit does have some altered stats, as do Lucina and Dr. Mario. I am grateful for those characters! I like all of them, and I think they were handled well (I wish Dr. Mario ran faster, though).

Talking like you do just comes off as ungrateful, to me. They never planned for those aforementioned three characters to be full-fledged new characters. There wasn't time in the budget for that. I'm glad they at least didn't get the Alph treatment: a lowly costume character.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

Much Dark Pit hate.
I can't complain, he like Dr. Mario and Lucina are just bonuses. The sprinkles on top of the ice cream. Yet it seems most people only want more ice cream on top of ice cream and hate free sprinkles.
I think that's enough dessert metaphors.
I don't see the big deal of Dark Pit needing a unique final smash. It's not like Sakurai cut some other aspects of the game just to make Dark Pit his own character.
People complain there's little point for them being their own characters, as if just keeping them as costumes would have been infinitely better. I don't see the reasoning there.

Can I just say how much I love the fact that the dessert analogies are coming from someone using a Snorlax avatar?