[SPOILER ALERT] - The Sevens Squares. - A Square-Enix general support threads.

[Untouch]

The only two similar attacks between Robin and Erdrick are Archfire and Thoron.
Erdrick does not learn a move like Nosferatu or Elwind.

It all depends how Sakurai implements his moveset.

 

[Fatmanonice]

It didn't even start with this. Where was the demand for characters like Ryu and Cloud? Everyone agrees they were good newcomers but there wasn't exactly a largely vocal fanbase for them within the Smash community.

Sakurai has noted that Cloud made up to a third of all Final Fantasy character requests.

https://www.sourcegaming.info/2016/01/20/sakurai-x-nomura-creator-interview-2016-part-one/

Ryu is literally Mr. Fighting Games and Crossovers. Counting just fighting games, he's been in over 50. He's the most recognizable fighting game character in the world, bar none, and one of the most recognizable video game characters overall.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

I never said Joker isn't, can't, or won't be unique at all. What I meant is that the motif already exists in a way, but I never said that you can't expand on it through different ways so the character feels fresh.

Even still, the motif is very different. I think we can both agree that, despite having conceptually similar moves, Inkling and Snake are so stupidly dissimilar it's not even worth bringing them both up together most of the time. Yet, both of them use guns and explosives, and have lots of kicks for their moveset. Joker and Rosalina both "control a secondary character to attack with them." But so do the Ice Climbers. And Duck Hunt, technically. It would be seriously stretching it to say that Rosalina is basically a stand user. For me, a "stand user" implies something way more like ice climbers, except the secondary character can't be attacked, or at least they can be brought back if they can. It's like if every move were Zelda's down B.

 

[EarlTamm]

Question, do you guys think Sakurai still does that 3 word thing when proposing new character concepts?

 

[PolarPanda]

What if some english person who also speaks Japanese posted it there? Then they also took the screenshot of the very same post, pretending to have not written it? If someone in Japan wrote it, it must have some more credibility, right?

There's a small chance that this random Japanese person took information from Verge and decided to post it on Japan's equivalent to 4chan, yes. But it's noteworthy that that's probably not the case. Really, the primary reason it's relevant in the first place is that it agrees with what nearly every reputable western leaker is saying.

 

[Deleted member]

The only two similar attacks between Robin and Erdrick are Archfire and Thoron.
Erdrick does not learn a move like Nosferatu or Elwind.

It all depends how Sakurai implements his moveset.

And even then they can be done completely differently. There's a lot you can do with one broad concept of a thunder spell and a fire spell.

Question, do you guys think Sakurai still does that 3 word thing when proposing new character concepts?

What are you referring to?

 

[EarlTamm]

What are you referring to?

It's a method Sakurai used when proposing new characters, summarizing them in 3 words or so in concept or move set. I am just curious if he still uses it, as that might influence things.

 

[Deleted member]

It's a method Sakurai used when proposing new characters, summarizing them in 3 words or so in concept or move set. I am just curious if he still uses it, as that might influence things.

I see. I've never heard about it prior to now, but I wouldn't doubt if he still does it.

 

[childishgamgeno]

Honestly even with the seemingly negative reception to his potential inclusion within the community, I just hope that at least some people try to be more open to it lol. I've wanted a DQ rep for a while now.

Is Erdrick even within my top 5 picks for a DQ rep though? Not at all, but I can understand why they would go with him. Like others have said, he's like Marth or Simon Belmont; not the fan favorite but the most recognizable and/or important figures within their series.

Reading some of these comments is getting a little exhausting.

Erdrick would no doubt be representing the abilities of DQ's "Hero Class", a class that he actually started within the series himself. Sure, he's a magic swordsman, but that doesn't mean he'd play anything like Robin. Even if a character's concept sounds similar to another one on paper, that doesn't actually mean they'd play anything alike. If that were the case, Captain Falcon should just be "Speedy Mario" since they're both punchy-kicky fighters with fire effects on some of their attacks. Obviously, that isn't the case. Basically, it's the execution of the concept that matters, and Erdrick's spells wouldn't even behave like Robin's anyway.

Erdrick's Wiki Page can show you all the different weapons and spells he could use in his original game.

Here's the page for the "Hero Class" in general so you can see what else they could potentially pull from.

Erdrick has loads of potential to be an interesting and fun character to work with. There's so many different directions you could take his moveset. Heck, if they had it so Erdrick could equip different weapons on the fly, that'd make for an extremely unique character that could change how their normal attacks work in order to adapt to different opponents. Maybe you stick with the balanced sword, maybe you switch to a lance for longer range, maybe you switch to a chain sickle for more speed, etc.

There's so much you could do, and it really only takes a little bit of creativity to come up with some wild stuff.

Reading through the wikis, again I don't know why people keep shoving them at me, it only marginally changes my perspective. (Captain Falcon isn't speedy mario at all, btw. They both have flame based attacks, but Captain Falcon plays so so much differently. Knees, Falcon kick, punch, and up grab)

Kaclang sounds like a REALLY COOL move that can be implemented in a really dope way. But Frizz and it's evolutions can be compared to Arcfire. Zap to Elthunder, etc. Some of the other spells are healing, or healing oneself (which could be cool!) or Gigaslash (which I'd like to see) What's that one move from DQVIII? Dragonslayer? He like slashes at the ground and pillar of fire erupts, that would be cool.

But anyway, all that said, yeah looking at the Wikis, it marginally changes my opinion. There's not really "so many directions" to take. Equipping different weapons would be cool (especially spear) but most of them we've seen already. Most of his magic we've seen too.

I find it kind of funny how a lot of people are bringing up all the different stuff that could be done with him and some people are still eager to bark about how he would be a Robin clone lmao

As far as his magic, yes it would pretty much be a semi Robin clone. I think various weapons are a stronger way to go, similar to Firion. But is that really Erdrick? or is Erdrick more of a blank slate character, and moldable dependable on the character?

Sakurai never said Cloud came from the ballot. He said Final Fantasy in Smash has been requested for a while, and Cloud was obviously the most popular choice. Sakurai didn't need a ballot to show that Cloud is the most popular Final Fantasy character, especially globally.

https://www.sourcegaming.info/2016/02/23/nintendo-dream-interview-with-sakurai-part-2/

Data for Cloud in Smash exists as early as April 2015, which means he was decided on outside of the ballot.

Yah, but Cloud was a popular pick regardless.

 

[Deleted member]

As far as his magic, yes it would pretty much be a semi Robin clone. I think various weapons are a stronger way to go, similar to Firion. But is that really Erdrick? or is Erdrick more of a blank slate character, and moldable dependable on the character?

He's more or less whatever the player designates him as, being a silent protagonist of a NES RPG.

 

[Nemuresu]

Even still, the motif is very different. I think we can both agree that, despite having conceptually similar moves, Inkling and Snake are so stupidly dissimilar it's not even worth bringing them both up together most of the time. Yet, both of them use guns and explosives, and have lots of kicks for their moveset. Joker and Rosalina both "control a secondary character to attack with them." But so do the Ice Climbers. And Duck Hunt, technically. It would be seriously stretching it to say that Rosalina is basically a stand user. For me, a "stand user" implies something way more like ice climbers, except the secondary character can't be attacked, or at least they can be brought back if they can. It's like if every move were Zelda's down B.

My conception on a "stand user" in Smash is someone who can invoke an assist that can fight on their own, or at least, one that can be attacked, and for said assist to completely depend on the character that invoked it in a way that if you kill the master, you kill the helper too. I don't consider Ice Climbers to work like that because Popo can't invoke Nana freely, if she's done, then you gotta sacrifice a stock to bring her back. As a way to illustrate on why I consider Rosalina a "stand user", I'll provide some picture from Heritage for the Future, which do work like that:

As you can see, there are stands that can leave their user and take damage on their own (hence the smaller healthbars with the stand word on them), and if you beat their user, then you beat the stand itself. However, if you only take the stand down, the user will remain there and you'll still have to beat them. But at the same time, there are some that never leave their user and only make their range higher, like here:

I could've provided videos to help this make more sense, but most of them are incredibly long, and sometimes you don't get to see the fighters moving their stands around the stage, but the point is there.

 

[Calane]

The problem is, every idea people have brought up is not unique to Erdrick, nor is it integral to his character. I read that Hero Class page, and the only thing on there that was even slightly unique was the "turn party members to metal" thing. Using it on himself would be pretty cool, but then again... Shulk can functionally do the same thing with Shield monado.

Equipping different things, having a level up system, etc, all are things they could've done with Cloud, or really any RPG character. They didn't, because they didn't need to. The character was already unique. Erdrick would be cool and unique if they had added him in Melee. Otherwise, he's either going to be boring, or untrue to his character.

Yes, but given that DQ is what essentially created the JRPG genre, it'd be sort of cute to have Erdrick reference things from the genre in such a way. Having a character who equips different weapons could be really interesting. It also wouldn't be untrue to his character either. "The hero is a true jack-of-all-trades in any case, being able to fulfill a variety of different roles in combat, such as being a powerful physical attacker or dedicated healer" was a line on the page. It is definitely in Erdrick's character to be versatile.

I'm not saying that this is how he'd be implemented into Smash, but it's definitely one of the many directions you could take him.

Also, Kaclang wouldn't work anything like Shulk's shield monado. Erdrick can't act at all when the spell is activated, and it makes him completely invulnerable to all attacks. It would be a purely defensive move, and would probably make him able to be picked up like a Crate in order to balance it.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Eh, the so-called negative reception won't even be that big, people will deal with him like they dealt with Corrin and other "mixed" characters like Incineroar.

Corrin was at least at a cool concept and announced with Bayonetta, one of the most wanted characters for DLC while Inceniroar isn't DLC. Yeah, people will lump it but giving people the same advice for paid content that you would for a bad haircut or getting hit by a pitch in baseball is kind of the beef to begin with. On that note, it's also unfair to the vast majority of people who have already bought the fighters' pass and won't know WTF he is.

Im still not too sure why they were looking for a character to sell the game so they put Piranha Plant out. Did Sakurai want plant representation in Ultimate?

The consensus was that PP was supposed to be base but they ran out of time. On that note, it's technically a free character for nearly 2 months and all you have to do is register your game online. Millions already have bought the game so literally no one should be upset about PP. It's a gift.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Yes, but given that DQ is what essentially created the JRPG genre, it'd be sort of cute to have Erdrick reference things from the genre in such a way. Having a character who equips different weapons could be really interesting. It also wouldn't be untrue to his character either. "The hero is a true jack-of-all-trades in any case, being able to fulfill a variety of different roles in combat, such as being a powerful physical attacker or dedicated healer" was a line on the page. It is definitely in Erdrick's character to be versatile.

I'm not saying that this is how he'd be implemented into Smash, but it's definitely one of the many directions you could take him.

Also, Kaclang wouldn't work anything like Shulk's shield monado. Erdrick can't act at all when the spell is activated, and it makes him completely invulnerable to all attacks. It would be a purely defensive move, and would probably make him able to be picked up like a Crate in order to balance it.

So then it'd be his shield animation at best. If he can't move when using it, there is literally no way for it to be useful in a moveset.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I can see Erdick using different weapons depending on which attack/button inputs you use.

Imo that kinda feels like Mr. Game & Watch and Villager with the whole different items gimmick, though, unless he actually switches weapons for all of his moves and they completely change his moveset for each one.

However, we most-likely won't have to deal with that based on the info that he has a move using Slime.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

Corrin was at least at a cool concept and announced with Bayonetta, one of the most wanted characters for DLC while Inceniroar isn't DLC. Yeah, people will lump it but giving people the same advice for paid content that you would for a bad haircut or getting him by a pitch in baseball is kind of the beef to begin with. On that note, it's also unfair to the vast majority of people who have already bought the fighters' pass and won't know WTF he is.

And the cool concept didn't matter because Corrin was another FE rep that the Smash fans hated the idea of since they thought the series was "overrepped", and there wasn't much love either from the general FE fanbase who hate Corrin's guts who comes from a game which story is mixed, so no, you can't convince me that Erdrick will cause more negative reception than Corrin who people eventually got over. Well, that's why Sakurai said to have faith in the value of the Fighter's pass before anything gets shown off.

 

[StormC]

On that note, it's also unfair to the vast majority of people who have already bought the fighters' pass and won't know WTF he is.

Well, Sakurai did say only buy the Fighter Pass if you're confident...

 

[Nemuresu]

Corrin was at least at a cool concept and announced with Bayonetta, one of the most wanted characters for DLC while Inceniroar isn't DLC. Yeah, people will lump it but giving people the same advice for paid content that you would for a bad haircut or getting him by a pitch in baseball is kind of the beef to begin with. On that note, it's also unfair to the vast majority of people who have already bought the fighters' pass and won't know WTF he is.

Sorry if I come out on board to play devil's advocate on the subject, but thinking every character should be fanservice or at least well-known is kind of a terrible idea to have with these DLC passes.
I remember back in the Injustice 2 days of speculation that many complained about the possibility of Raiden being a DLC because no one asked for him or because he's already available in MKX, but that didn't stop the character from happening. Not enough? Many were talking about how they wanted Constantine or Beast Boy because of the 40 bucks they spent to get all character packs, only for them to not appear ever (with Constantine only having a concept art that showed he was considered). Did Warner or NRS ever suffer badly from that? Nope. And I dare say Nintendo can run that risk as well. That's why CSakurai told people to only buy the Pass if you can appreciate what it will offer.

 

[childishgamgeno]

Yes, but given that DQ is what essentially created the JRPG genre, it'd be sort of cute to have Erdrick reference things from the genre in such a way. Having a character who equips different weapons could be really interesting. It also wouldn't be untrue to his character either. "The hero is a true jack-of-all-trades in any case, being able to fulfill a variety of different roles in combat, such as being a powerful physical attacker or dedicated healer" was a line on the page. It is definitely in Erdrick's character to be versatile.

I'm not saying that this is how he'd be implemented into Smash, but it's definitely one of the many directions you could take him.

Also, Kaclang wouldn't work anything like Shulk's shield monado. Erdrick can't act at all when the spell is activated, and it makes him completely invulnerable to all attacks. It would be a purely defensive move, and would probably make him able to be picked up like a Crate in order to balance it.

Erdrick would essentially be similar to WoL from Dissidia.

Kaclang is by far the most interesting thing there. I'd love to see players strategically implement that. The different weapons implemented in his combo is probably the way to go. I really think that's the only move.

And the cool concept didn't matter because Corrin was another FE rep that the Smash fan hated the idea of since they thought the series was "overrepped", and there wasn't much love either from the general FE fanbase who hate Corrin's guts who comes from a game which story is mixed, so no, you can't convince me that Erdrick will cause more negative reception than Corrin who people eventually got over. Well, that's why Sakurai said to have faith in the value of the Fighter's pass before anything gets shown off.

I mean, to be fair, Sakurai himself said there's too many FE people haha

Sorry if I come out on board to play devil's advocate on the subject, but thinking every character should be fanservice or at least well-known is kind of a terrible idea to have with these DLC passes.
I remember back in the Injustice 2 days of speculation that many complained about the possibility of Raiden being a DLC because no one asked for him or because he's already available in MKX, but that didn't stop the character from happening. Not enough? Many were talking about how they wanted Constantine or Beast Boy because of the 40 bucks they spent to get all character packs, only for them to not appear ever (with Constantine only having a concept art that showed he was considered). Did Warner or NRS ever suffer badly from that? Nope. And I dare say Nintendo can run that risk as well. That's why CSakurai told people to only buy the Pass if you can appreciate what it will offer.

I disagree to an extent here. I think adhering to JUST fans is terrible, because it makes you look weak as a company, and it can prevent you from making moves that are beneficial to the business in the long term. However, ignoring your fans, especially for years, is horrible for business. Nintendo is a much larger company than Netherealm, and therefore has much more to prove and maintain than NR does. And besides, The NINJA TURTLES YO??? Black Lightning doubled with Raiden too. Starfire was a good pick, as well as Red Hood and Darkseid.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Even still, the motif is very different. I think we can both agree that, despite having conceptually similar moves, Inkling and Snake are so stupidly dissimilar it's not even worth bringing them both up together most of the time. Yet, both of them use guns and explosives, and have lots of kicks for their moveset. Joker and Rosalina both "control a secondary character to attack with them." But so do the Ice Climbers. And Duck Hunt, technically. It would be seriously stretching it to say that Rosalina is basically a stand user. For me, a "stand user" implies something way more like ice climbers, except the secondary character can't be attacked, or at least they can be brought back if they can. It's like if every move were Zelda's down B.

Then it follows to say that Erdrick and Robin could also be similar in concept, but in practice be ‘so stupidly dissimilar it's not even worth bringing them both up together most of the time’, yes?

 

[RandomAce]

I don’t think a fighter has to be especially unique to be in Smash. This line of thinking seems to come from Smash 4 even though that game had very straightforward newcomers on its roster too.

Ridley has no real bells or whistles but he’s in Ultimate. Same with K. Rool outside of the armor mechanic. I don’t see why Erdrick couldn’t be just a magic swordsman.

That’s because Ultimate had a more strict development cycle when it came to new content for the base game.

And Sakurai even explains how Ridley has this whole EVIL presence when designing his moveset, King K. Rool having his unique archetype due to his mix set of abilities and stats. Isabelle is the only one who was a semi clone but that was because she couldn’t be an echo.

However, this is DLC now where Sakurai and his team have much more time, and most likely want to work on characters that have more interesting movesets to work on.

Not saying that Erdrick can’t do that, but can someone fill in what Erdrick can do to stand out. I hear people say that he is a jack of all trades but what for? He can use different types of magic attacks? Can he pull out different weapons like lances and axes?

 

[Deleted member]

Then it follows to say that Erdrick and Robin could also be similar in concept, but in practice be ‘so stupidly dissimilar it's not even worth bringing them both up together most of the time’, yes?

I would agree. People have brought up so many potential concepts for Erdrick that are absolutely nothing like Robin, but because one broad and easily adapatable concept is shared that makes them a clone.

 

[Deleted member]

Not saying that Erdrick can’t do that, but can someone fill in what Erdrick can do to stand out. I hear people say that he is a jack of all trades but what for? He can use different types of magic attacks? Can he pull out different weapons like lances and axes?

Yes. Calane's post summed it up pretty well, he can equip a ton of different types of weapons in addition to having a decent variety of spellcasting.
(meant to edit my last post, sorry for the double post)

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Then it follows to say that Erdrick and Robin could also be similar in concept, but in practice be ‘so stupidly dissimilar it's not even worth bringing them both up together most of the time’, yes?

No. "Puppeteer" versus "Stand User" is a completely different case than "Mage with Sword" vs "Swordsman with Magic".

 

[RandomAce]

Alright, and can anyone sum up what made Erdrick likely in the first place aside from speculation.

Like aside from the recent leak, how many insiders have heard about Erdrick and think he’s in?

 

[Calane]

Reading through the wikis, again I don't know why people keep shoving them at me, it only marginally changes my perspective. (Captain Falcon isn't speedy mario at all, btw. They both have flame based attacks, but Captain Falcon plays so so much differently. Knees, Falcon kick, punch, and up grab)

Kaclang sounds like a REALLY COOL move that can be implemented in a really dope way. But Frizz and it's evolutions can be compared to Arcfire. Zap to Elthunder, etc. Some of the other spells are healing, or healing oneself (which could be cool!) or Gigaslash (which I'd like to see) What's that one move from DQVIII? Dragonslayer? He like slashes at the ground and pillar of fire erupts, that would be cool.

But anyway, all that said, yeah looking at the Wikis, it marginally changes my opinion. There's not really "so many directions" to take. Equipping different weapons would be cool (especially spear) but most of them we've seen already. Most of his magic we've seen too.

Um, that was my point. I was not in any way claiming Falcon was like Mario.

Anyway, you're looking at the spells superficially. Zap falls down from the sky and lands in front of him, unlike Robin's Elthunder.

I would replace Frizz for Sizzle, which would probably act like a wave of fire rolling across the stage.

It's not the element of the spell itself that matters, but how it functions.

There really are a lot of different ways someone could go about creating a moveset for Erdrick, as he leaves quite a bit of room to get creative.

 

[Deleted member]

Um, that was my point. I was not in any way claiming Falcon was like Mario.

Anyway, you're looking at the spells superficially. Zap falls down from the sky and lands in front of him, unlike Robin's Elthunder.

I would replace Frizz for Sizzle, which would probably act like a wave of fire rolling across the stage.

It's not the element of the spell itself that matters, but how it functions.

There really are a lot of different ways someone could go about creating a moveset for Erdrick, as he leaves quite a bit of room to get creative.

Sounds JUST like a Robin clone if you ask me!

 

[Deleted member]

Seeing all these "Erdrick isn't unique, they'd just do what Robin already does!" really makes me wonder what ya'll think of Sora and Crono.

Wow, so i can get you're a fan of it ok, i don't mind it but the starter i hate is already mentioned. by ALOT

I can tell you couldn't tell what a joke is

 

[Untouch]

If Erdrick is in, I'm confident Sakurai can and will come up with an interesting moveset that incorporates DQ really well, he's a large fan of the series and likely won't half-ass it.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Well, Sakurai did say only buy the Fighter Pass if you're confident...

DLC shouldn't be like loot crates.

I'll also say that we've kind of hit peak irony with the topic of Erdrick's uniqueness when the argument for it has become "you'd understand how unique he'd be if you read these encyclopedia pages." That's a bit esoteric and, like Sakurai talked about at GDC 08, kind of flies in the face of his "three word philosophy."

 

[Deleted member]

If Erdrick is in, I'm confident Sakurai can and will come up with an interesting moveset that incorporates DQ really well, he's a large fan of the series and likely won't half-*** it.

I really don't get the worries that a lot of people seem to have. He will do it justice while making him totally unique, Sakurai is a genius at designing how characters play.

 

[Squirtle/Mario guy]

Super Mario RPG just has this lovely aesthetic that no other mario RPG has replicated imo. The old 3D rendered graphics and the designs in general have a 90s charm to them that still holds up despite the graphics being so primitive frankly (in the modern age at least)

Seeing all these "Erdrick isn't unique, they'd just do what Robin already does!" really makes me wonder what ya'll think of Sora and Crono.

I can tell you couldn't tell what a joke is

well it's the internet so how i know ?

 

[Minik]

I feel like if they were gonna hype up a DQ Main hero, it'd by having most of them be playable, making out that the DLC is actually like buying many characters, pleases the fans, DQ's legacy and makes the deal sweeter.

 

[Deleted member]

DLC shouldn't be like loot crates.

I'll also say that we've kind of hit peak irony with the topic of Erdrick's uniqueness when the argument for it has become "you'd understand how unique he'd be if you read these encyclopedia pages." That's a bit esoteric and, like Sakurai talked about at GDC 08, kind of flies in the face of his "three word philosophy."

If you haven't played a game then how are you supposed to know what a character is capable of? That's kind of why people are bring those up because it seems not many people in this thread have played DQ3.

I feel like if they were gonna hype up a DQ Main hero, it'd by having most of them be playable, making out that the DLC is actually like buying many characters, pleases the fans, DQ's legacy and makes the deal sweeter.

I would hope for that as well, would be the easiest way to please as many people as possible; the old fans, the people who only played DQ8, and the new fans who got into the series from DQ11.

 

[StormC]

DLC shouldn't be like loot crates.

I mean, you can just wait a year for all of the DLC to come out to decide if it's worth your purchase or not. I'm waiting myself.

 

[EarlTamm]

That's a bit esoteric and, like Sakurai talked about at GDC 08, kind of flies in the face of his "three word philosophy."

You know, that is a big factor. We know that Sakurai can probably make any character work given the time, but he is very quick and precise about it, and if a character does not fall within three words and be sufficient enough for him, he will likely just drop it.

 

[PsySmasher]

Hey guys!

Haven't been in this thread for awhile and was wondering where everyone's head is at in terms of the Square rep.

 

[EarlTamm]

Hey guys!

Haven't been in this thread for awhile and was wondering where everyone's head is at in terms of the Square rep.

Right now Erdrick is in major contention among the fan base.

 

[Minik]

I would hope for that as well, would be the easiest way to please as many people as possible; the old fans, the people who only played DQ8, and the new fans who got into the series from DQ11.

This also fits smashes thing of pushing playstation 3rd parties if they do 8 and 11 lol (though its not that bad since 8 and 11 are on 3DS anyway)

 

[PsySmasher]

Right now Erdrick is in major contention among the fan base.

Is this because of the Joker/Granblue VS leak, or is there more to it?