[SPOILER ALERT] - The Sevens Squares. - A Square-Enix general support threads.

[Deleted member]

Are you referring to these video's?

Those were the most prominent ones, but I’m pretty sure there were a few other popular ones. It almost makes me wanna say that geno was kind of a meme initially, but that’s definitely a huge stretch lol.

 

[StormC]

All this stuff just makes me sad SMRPG never got a true sequel and never will.

I love the first two Paper Mario games but there was a certain magic to SMRPG that wasn't quite captured by later RPGs.

 

[Deleted member]

All this stuff just makes me sad SMRPG never got a true sequel and never will.

Super Mario RPG remake but all the original NPCs are replaced with red toads.

 

[Deleted member]

All this stuff just makes me sad SMRPG never got a true sequel and never will.

I appreciate the future Mario RPGs for keeping the thing going but SMRPG itself had this... feel to it, I don't know how to describe it but it felt like it was just a regular Mario game but with turn based combat, which I can't quite say for the other Mario RPGs to come (nothing against them though, they're still mostly great.)

 

[SSGuy]

Super Mario RPG remake but all the original NPCs are replaced with red toads.

"I'm a Toad that came down from space to posses another Toad in order to stop a Metal Toad from creating an army of Weapon like Toads"

What a classic!

 

[Veenon]

So, about that Erdrick leak running round (The one that "leaked" Joker's stage too or something). What specifically did it contain about him? I assume his stage and something about the time of reveal? Just asking for a catchup here.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Those were the most prominent ones, but I’m pretty sure there were a few other popular ones. It almost makes me wanna say that geno was kind of a meme initially, but that’s definitely a huge stretch lol.

Geno as a character is certainly as viral as memes are. He's more of a meme in the traditional sense of the word, not the modern day stupid jokes meaning of the word.

 

[Deleted member]

So, about that Erdrick leak running round (The one that "leaked" Joker's stage too or something). What specifically did it contain about him? I assume his stage and something about the time of reveal? Just asking for a catchup here.

Only other info included was his stage (Alefgard) and that a Slime would appear with him in some ability or something else.

 

[EarlTamm]

All this stuff just makes me sad SMRPG never got a true sequel and never will.

Never say never man. Especially with Square wanting to make full blown remakes of old games, that day may still come.

 

[StormC]

Never say never man. Especially with Square wanting to make full blown remakes of old games, that day may still come.

Honestly if It got made now I wouldn’t have high hopes for it. Mario RPG was sorta lightning in a bottle.

 

[REZERO]

Maybe we should do a SMRPG replay this week and discuss.

 

[ThreeT]

I'm confused about one part of the leak. It states that the Luminary from Dragon Quest 11 will be an alternate costume of Erdrick right? Doesn't he not use a shield though? How similar are those two characters?

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Honestly if It got made now I wouldn’t have high hopes for it. Mario RPG was sorta lightning in a bottle.

Considering SMRPG's director and composer still work on the M&L series, which is absolutely fantastic, I'm pretty confident they could do it justice.

 

[EarlTamm]

Maybe we should do a SMRPG replay this week and discuss.

I am actually playing it for the first time on my SNES Classic. I am currently at Marrymore.

 

[Veenon]

Only other info included was his stage (Alefgard) and that a Slime would appear with him in some ability or something else.

Isn't Alefgard a bit big for a general stage? Unless it's a more specific location or just an overview stage like, say, Skyloft

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

I'm confused about one part of the leak. It states that the Luminary from Dragon Quest 11 will be an alternate costume of Erdrick right? Doesn't he not use a shield though? How similar are those two characters?

The Koopalings (sans Jr.) don't turn into shadow mario and paint evil goop, but that's still their final smash. They can give Luminary a shield.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm confused about one part of the leak. It states that the Luminary from Dragon Quest 11 will be an alternate costume of Erdrick right? Doesn't he not use a shield though? How similar are those two characters?

He usually isn't depicted with one, but he can.
His equipment options are sword + shield, dual wielding swords, and two-handed swords.
They can easily be echoes of each other, having very similar spell lists.

 

[Deleted member]

Super Mario RPG just has this lovely aesthetic that no other mario RPG has replicated imo. The old 3D rendered graphics and the designs in general have a 90s charm to them that still holds up despite the graphics being so primitive frankly (in the modern age at least)

 

[Deleted member]

Isn't Alefgard a bit big for a general stage? Unless it's a more specific location or just an overview stage like, say, Skyloft

I had the same thought, but it seems fairly plausible.
I would hope for the stage to be Zoma's Castle personally.

 

[Squirtle/Mario guy]

You shut your damn mouth

Wow, so i can get you're a fan of it ok, i don't mind it but the starter i hate is already mentioned. by ALOT

 

[Deleted member]

"I'm a Toad that came down from space to posses another Toad in order to stop a Metal Toad from creating an army of Weapon like Toads"

What a classic!

Haha, you think the villain would be a metal toad? It’d just be bowser again.

 

[Veenon]

I had the same thought, but it seems fairly plausible.
I would hope for the stage to be Zoma's Castle personally.

That would be a great idea. Hopefully it would come with Zoma's theme from DQIX, or even a remix to have it fit even better.

 

[SSGuy]

Only other info included was his stage (Alefgard) and that a Slime would appear with him in some ability or something else.

Alefgard is more of a map/region. I'm curious of what the stage is going to look like if all the leak has going for it is 'Alefgard' it just doesn't seem specific enough yet. Like not even a specific location or landmark being referred to the stage?

Spoiler

I guess we can speculate what they would do for the map if the claim Erdrick is coming to the game is true.

Haha, you think the villain would be a metal toad? It’d just be bowser again.

That breaks the continuity of the game. Smithy is giant Metal Toad. Culex is also a Toad with four smaller Toads replacing the diamonds.

 

[Deleted member]

Alefgard is more of a map/region. I'm curious of what the stage is going to look like if all the leak has going for it is 'Alefgard' it just doesn't seem specific enough yet. Like not even a specific location or landmark being referred to the stage?

Spoiler

View attachment 183203

I guess we can speculate what they would do for the map if the claim Erdrick is coming to the game is true.

Probably something like was done with Skyloft like was already proposed, but we'll have to see I guess. Other than the obvious one of Zoma's Castle there's a few other potential stages I can think of. Maybe one that goes through various dungeons of the game?

 

[Fatmanonice]

SMRPG has technically been released 3 times now in Europe with VC releases in 2008 and 2016 and with the SNES Classic in 2017. Overall, it is estimated that the SNES Classic alone has sold more than 7 million copies worldwide. I note this because a common topic of Dragon Quest is how legally complicated it is. In its 32 year history, it's never been liscensed out to any other gaming company and Ultimate would literally be the first time it has ever been in a project that Square Enix didn't totally control. On this note, you'll also find that Dragon Quest games are totally absent on Wii and Wii U Virtual Consoles in all regions and weren't included in even the Japanese NES and SNES Classic aside from a limited edition Japanese exclusive edition that only had Shonen Jump properties and was liscensed by them. Even then, it was just one Dragon Quest game, the very first.

This is also why I lean super hard into my shill argument. If the goal was just Western appeal, they could have released the games on Virtual Consoles ages ago but, no, Armor Project/Bird Studio doesn't have control of those and the games are readily available to just about anything one with a Smartphone anyways. With Smash, as implied, it's a one and done and then corraling people to buy the newer games at full price that actually make them money. That's also why I look at people incredulously when the legacy argument gets brought up because rereleases of classics are hard swerved if not at a full price tag unless they're cell phone ports (again, Google/Apple aren't gaming companies).

 

[Ovaltine]

Super Mario RPG has amazing graphics. I definitely concur with that. Here's my analysis on why I think they're incredible, and why acknowledgement of the game warms the depths of my heart:

Spoiler

 

[childishgamgeno]

Just coming up with a moveset from the spells luminary has.

As a gimmick, all of his specials require MP to use, which restores over time.

B -> Frizzle -> Similar to Lucas' PK Fire, can be charged to increase the strength to Kafrizzle which increases the size and strength.
Up B -> Zoom -> Teleport, but it isn't instant, looks like how the characters fly in DBZ as a nod.
Side B -> Bang -> A fast, higher knockback explosion where Erdrick stands.
Down B -> Snooze -> Like Jigglypuff's Sing, puts nearby enemies to sleep for a short period of time.

@Calane about DQ, but I can try with the knowledge I have. It's been a while since I played the games, so bear with me.

Erdrick have the class of "Hero" unlike a lot of his party member, he cannot Class-shift. But why would he? Have have the largest arsenal at his disposal.
While Erdrick's main signatures weapons are the Sword and Shield, he also can use Club/Spears/Axes/Whip/Boomerangs (Please be this I need Eight as an Alt)
Which mean that for his aerials, or special, just like the Belmonts, he could use others weapons. His Dash attack can be a Shield bash, he could have a back air that disjoint by pulling the whip, his down air could be him going full Dragoon jump with the spears going downard.
His smash Attacks can change weapons depending on the direction. Who knows.
And that's just exemples I can think on the spot, there much more possible.

As for his magic side, Erdrick have been associated with the "Zap" spells, being the thunder element. However they're never really seen used like Robin by tome or whatever, as Erdrick Literally summon thunders from the sky so kinda like Pikachu down's B.
His Neutral B can be having a line of tiny cloud appearing on stage, and being able to push B again to summon the thunder to strike oppenent and have stage control when he need it.
He could use "Sizzle" to summon collums of Flames that can be a weak AoE attack to keep distance when in dangers
He could use "Poof" or "Zoom" as his recovery, or summon a slime to jump on it if you want to be imaginative


Erdrick can be 100% unique and that post only needed 2 minutes of thinking. So imagine what Sakurai and his team can do with months of works.

>Similar to (blank) kind of like (blank)
>Erdrick has the potential to be 100% unique

Sorry. Not saying Erdrick is gonna be boring, but let’s not pretend like he’s gonna be a super unique character on the roster. At least Joker has a dagger (no one in Smash has one) and can summon a Persona (Zelda is the closest thing to this and it’s not even that close). They’re probably gonna use Link as a base and build from there.

We can't have another melee user that can use magic, that's too close to Robin, that's why it needs to be Cron-
actually, wait I mean it needs to be Sor-
wait let me try again, it needs to be Sephi-
DAMNIT I'll get this one day.

Okay, but lets not act like Sora has way more unique potential than most other people on this list. Down from his look to his weapon and his moveset spanning about 5 games. No one one Smash has a move like Ragnarok. No one in Smash has a move like Trinity. No one in Smash would have limit forms like Sora could. No one in Smash uses anything close to a giant key-sword. Summons? If you take away Sora’s magic, he’s still a unique character on his own.
His moveset would take wayyyy less “creativity” or “Sakurai miracle-ness”.

SMRPG has technically been released 3 times now in Europe with VC releases in 2008 and 2016 and with the SNES Classic in 2017. Overall, it is estimated that the SNES Classic alone has sold more than 7 million copies worldwide. I note this because a common topic of Dragon Quest is how legally complicated it is. In its 32 year history, it's never been liscensed out to any other gaming company and Ultimate would literally be the first time it has ever been in a project that Square Enix didn't totally control. On this note, you'll also find that Dragon Quest games are totally absent on Wii and Wii U Virtual Consoles in all regions and weren't included in even the Japanese NES and SNES Classic aside from a limited edition Japanese exclusive edition that only had Shonen Jump properties and was liscensed by them. Even then, it was just one Dragon Quest game, the very first.

This is also why I lean super hard into my shill argument. If the goal was just Western appeal, they could have released the games on Virtual Consoles ages ago but, no, Armor Project/Bird Studio doesn't have control of those and the games are readily available to just about anything one with a Smartphone anyways. With Smash, as implied, it's a one and done and then corraling people to buy the newer games at full price that actually make them money. That's also why I look at people incredulously when the legacy argument gets brought up because rereleases of classics are hard swerved if not at a full price tag unless they're cell phone ports (again, Google/Apple aren't gaming companies).

Again. Gonna agree. If Smash was putting in DQ purely for legacy, why not put him in base? If the argument against that is “WELL SQUARE WAS STINGY AND WANTED MONEY” then we can’t say the DQ pick isn’t a shill pick. It’s a strategic, tactical move to not only try to include a highly iconic series, but also boost its sales out here in the West. People argue that it’s selling well out here, but DQXI sold the best out here when compared to its other titles. 3 million of its 4 million sales are from Japan. DQXI sold the best but that’s in no way any indication that it’s flourishing in the West. It’s doing good. Enough to be widespread appeal?? Arguable.

 

[Nekoo]

>Similar to (blank) kind of like (blank)
>Erdrick has the potential to be 100% unique

>Give a way to explain so people visually understand
>Use it as a point

"URGH DUR HES NOT UNIQUE"

It's like you do it on purpose.

 

[childishgamgeno]

>Give a way to explain so people visually understand
>Use it as a point

"URGH DUR HES NOT UNIQUE"

It's like you do it on purpose.

-_-

Lmaoooo but he’s...not? So technically I am doing it on purpose? I was just using examples people gave to me. *kanye shrug*

Again, not saying I don’t believe it, but I’m just using what’s given. I gave points on Sora's and Joker's uniqueness, without comparing it to anyone else. If t's similar to someone else...it's not really unique...right? I'm not even trying to bash Erdrick, it's my opinion, that he will play very similar to a Link/Robin Merge and as someone who spent money on the Fighters Pass, thats much less appealing to me.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Maybe we should do a SMRPG replay this week and discuss.

I've been casually going through it, and honestly, I don't like it. I'm at Rose Way and it's just not clicking with me. I really enjoy the Mario & Luigi series, but Mario RPG just isn't cutting it for me. I'm likely going to have to grind like any other RPG, but enemies give such pitiful amounts of experience that it's not worth the effort. Having to go back to your most recent save if you mess up fail isn't appreciated at all, especially when they don't give you many saves.

The game has aged okay, but it's certainly no fine wine. Maybe I'll continue, but there are plenty of other games before it on my backlog.

Again. Gonna agree. If Smash was putting in DQ purely for legacy, why not put him in base? If the argument against that is “WELL SQUARE WAS STINGY AND WANTED MONEY” then we can’t say the DQ pick isn’t a shill pick. It’s a strategic, tactical move to not only try to include a highly iconic series, but also boost its sales out here in the West. People argue that it’s selling well out here, but DQXI sold the best out here when compared to its other titles. 3 million of its 4 million sales are from Japan. DQXI sold the best but that’s in no way any indication that it’s flourishing in the West. It’s doing good. Enough to be widespread appeal?? Arguable.

No one's arguing that Dragon Quest is flourishing in the West. It isn't. That being said, it's Western sales are impressive enough to qualify it for inclusion in Smash Bros, and the lack of Western popularity is made up for by Japanese popularity.

 

[Nekoo]

-_-

Lmaoooo but he’s...not? So technically I am doing it on purpose? I was just using examples people gave to me. *kanye shrug*

Again, not saying I don’t believe it, but I’m just using what’s given. I gave points on Sora's and Joker's uniqueness, without comparing it to anyone else. If t's similar to someone else...it's not really unique...right? I'm not even trying to bash Erdrick, it's my opinion, that he will play very similar to a Link/Robin Merge and as someone who spent money on the Fighters Pass, thats much less appealing to me.

But I can just say that Geno would look like Mii Gunner and Samus because he have an arm canon.
Giving a visual way for people who doesn't know the series, to explain easily what X does doesn't mean a fighter isn't unique at all.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

I've been casually going through it, and honestly, I don't like it. I'm at Rose Way and it's just not clicking with me. I really enjoy the Mario & Luigi series, but Mario RPG just isn't cutting it for me. I'm likely going to have to grind like any other RPG, but enemies give such pitiful amounts of experience that it's not worth the effort. Having to go back to your most recent save if you mess up fail isn't appreciated at all, especially when they don't give you many saves.

The game has aged okay, but it's certainly no fine wine. Maybe I'll continue, but there are plenty of other games before it on my backlog.


No one's arguing that Dragon Quest is flourishing in the West. It isn't. That being said, it's Western sales are impressive enough to qualify it for inclusion in Smash Bros, and the lack of Western popularity is made up for by Japanese popularity.

When you die and go back to your last save, you keep the EXP you got. You can abuse the hell out of it, too. Just save right before using a starman and then die and repeat the process.

 

[childishgamgeno]

But I can just say that Geno would look like Mii Gunner and Samus because he have an arm canon.
Giving a visual way for people who doesn't know the series, to explain easily what X does doesn't mean a fighter isn't unique at all.

But that would be...untrue?

For example, Geno looks KIND of like his Mii Costume, but not really? And he looks and would work nothing like Samus, or the Mii Gunner for that matter. He’s a puppet/doll (already no one in Smash is this) and he not only uses his arm cannon (which would probably work in a different way than Samus charge) but also fires bullets from his fingers and has rocket punches. No one in Smash has rocket punches. Geno can also turn himself into a cannon and fire his star form and cover the screen, blowing away all combatants.

I’ve just barely described potential moves for Geno without comparing it to anyone else in Smash and it sounds different from anyone else in Smash. The Mii Gunner was close to Geno for the sole fact that they had an arm cannon, but the similarities stop there. According to descriptors, that doesn’t seem to be the case with Erdrick is all I’m saying.

 

[Nekoo]

But that would be...untrue?

For example, Geno looks KIND of like his Mii Costume, but not really? And he looks and would work nothing like Samus, or the Mii Gunner for that matter. He’s a puppet/doll (already no one in Smash is this) and he not only uses his arm cannon (which would probably work in a different way than Samus charge) but also fires bullets from his fingers and has rocket punches. No one in Smash has rocket punches. Geno can also turn himself into a cannon and fire his star form and cover the screen, blowing away all combatants.

I’ve just barely described potential moves for Geno without comparing it to anyone else in Smash and it sounds different from anyone else in Smash. The Mii Gunner was close to Geno for the sole fact that they had an arm cannon, but the similarities stop there. According to descriptors, that doesn’t seem to be the case with Erdrick is all I’m saying.

Oh, My appologies.
Samus, Mii Gunner AND MEGAMAN

 

[Deleted member]

Oh, My appologies.
Samus, Mii Gunner AND MEGAMAN

Megaman fires bullets from his arm (and sometimes arms), not his fingers.
What do you mean you were joking?

 

[childishgamgeno]

Oh, My appologies.
Samus, Mii Gunner AND MEGAMAN

Megaman fires bullets from his arm (and sometimes arms), not his fingers.
What do you mean you were joking?

Megaman does not fire bullets from his fingers, and not in the same way that Geno does. If that was the case, Megaman would’ve been chosen for the Geno spirit battle and not Shiek. Megaman uses a wide arsenal of different weapons as his moves, making him stand out from Geno.

Again, Geno would play nothing like Samus or Mii Gunner lmao. Or even Megaman. Geno has his projectiles, and star based attacks. No one on that list has that.
The only similarities he has with both of them is that he has an arm cannon but that isn’t his main method of attack, it’s one of many.

And actually the fact that we can have this back and forth...kind of proves my point? No one has explained how Erdrick could be unique outside of “Sakurai can do it when he tries really hard”

 

[Fatmanonice]

>Give a way to explain so people visually understand
>Use it as a point

"URGH DUR HES NOT UNIQUE"

It's like you do it on purpose.

But from all the explanations I've seen, they never really strive super far from what's already present in Smash. Usually the explanation is a mix of Robin and Link but, aside from semi clones and echoes, no unique characters are like this. It makes sense for the Links to be similar. It makes sense for Fox, Falco, and Wolf to be similar. Makes sense for Mario and Luigi. This is further exaggerated by the fact that even Erdrick supporters admit that he's a blank slate personality wise. Fox and Falco act very different. Same with Marth and Lucina. Even Villager heavily emotes and Wii Fit's mannerisms come from the games and this brings us to something else.

If the characters don't have strong personalities, they are usually have very unique movesets. The only exceptions are the Miis which are meant to be blank slate, customizable avatars. All the unique characters fill particular niches. Sword and shield? The Links. Sword and magic? Robin (Robin even specializes in electric attacks). Two handed sword with brute strength? Ike. Sword with classic RPG elements? Cloud. Everyone's basic explanation of Erdrick has been a combination of these. At best he's a composite character with no personality, which also explains why people have regularly suggested just meshing all the DQ Heroes together but that's also kind of esoteric.

Look at how Sakurai talks about Robin:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...ke_it_into_super_smash_bros_for_wii_u_and_3ds

Robin clicked. Chrom was just another boring swordsmen. Esoteric is not good for a character. Sakurai has regularly talked about how he can imagine character concepts almost immediately by himself and a lot of people here have even suggested "teams of people" trying to figure out how to make Erdrick unique enough to pass a spit test. Again, it goes back to this weird running theme of bending over backwards and kissing your own back to not only get this character into Smash but make them unique. Why?

 

[Nekoo]

Megaman fires bullets from his arm (and sometimes arms), not his fingers.
What do you mean you were joking?

No- I WAS T O T A L L Y S E R I O U S-

 

[Deleted member]

No- I WAS T O T A L L Y S E R I O U S-

Idk man, just from the way you phrased this post I can’t tell whether you’re joking or not. Add another pacman emote and I think it would be clear.

 

[StormC]

I don’t think a fighter has to be especially unique to be in Smash. This line of thinking seems to come from Smash 4 even though that game had very straightforward newcomers on its roster too.

Ridley has no real bells or whistles but he’s in Ultimate. Same with K. Rool outside of the armor mechanic. I don’t see why Erdrick couldn’t be just a magic swordsman.