[SPOILER ALERT] - The Sevens Squares. - A Square-Enix general support threads.

[Icewolff92]

I'll say, I still think Sephiroth will show up one day in Smash. If they want to expand the representation even further, in the distant future, Tifa should be the last fighter from FFVII to join Smash, imho.

If we are getting more fighter pas (which would not surprise me) I¨m going to go on a limb that Sora and Sephiroth are a guarantee.

Ps.. this whole Etika situation is just tragic

 

[Deleted member]

I feel that if there are fighters after the pass, characters from franchises already in the game are more likely. I doubt we will get that many newcomers with stages after the fighter pass.

 

[Squirtle/Mario guy]

We all know Dragon Quest won the war of the 7 Squares, specially 2 out of 7 characters

 

[DarthEnderX]

Those two are the only FF7 characters I want at this point, so I'd be satisfied if both get in.

Nice of you to be "satisfied" with a completely unrealistic expectation.

 

[Idon]

I swear to God people would add every single character from FF7 and Persona 5 before they even consider characters from other entries in the series, ****ing hell.

 

[EarlTamm]

I think if we get another fighter pass, the next Square rep would likely be Geno. We got Banjo, making fan favorites possible even when Nintendo is holding the reigns, and Geno is not negatively effected like most third parties if Nintendo were to start focusing more on series already in the game.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I swear to God people would add every single character from FF7 and Persona 5 before they even consider characters from other entries in the series, ****ing hell.

Well, what is one supposed to do? I sure can't hope for Cecil from FF4, seeing as SE has completely ignored everything pre-7 in regards to digital distribution lately, and I doubt there'd remotely be enough loud support for the guy.

I think if we get another fighter pass, the next Square rep would likely be Geno. We got Banjo, making fan favorites possible even when Nintendo is holding the reigns, and Geno is not negatively effected like most third parties if Nintendo were to start focusing more on series already in the game.

Yeah, the only issue is whether Square will be willing to play ball in regards to letting others use him. It would take balls of Iron Giant to say "no" to Sakurai.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Well, what is one supposed to do?

Support Black Mage. Obviously.

 

[StormC]

Yeah, the series with no Spirits and two songs is going to get another character.

 

[osby]

Yeah, the series with no Spirits and two songs is going to get another character.

As far as I know, characters are not music or artwork, so I imagine it'll be fine. Obviously, it wouldn't be a part of the pass, but according to Sakurai, SE was pretty easy with Cloud himself.

 

[ZelDan]

I swear to God people would add every single character from FF7 and Persona 5 before they even consider characters from other entries in the series, ****ing hell.

I just want Final Fantasy to get more love in general. If we got Sephiroth or Tifa, that'd be great. I'd also be down with seeing Terra, Cecil, or maybe even Zidane.

 

[StormC]

As far as I know, characters are not music or artwork, so I imagine it'll be fine. Obviously, it wouldn't be a part of the pass, but according to Sakurai, SE was pretty easy with Cloud himself.

Why would you imagine it would be fine when Square barely gives the series anything to begin with? Why would Sakurai even bother trying to add another FF character if Square is playing hardball like this? It makes little sense from what we know to add another Final Fantasy character.

The department that runs Final Fantasy is notorious for being clowns. Dragon Quest is run by a different section so it doesn't have that issue.

 

[osby]

Why would you imagine it would be fine when Square barely gives the series anything to begin with? Why would Sakurai even bother trying to add another FF character if Square is playing hardball like this? It makes little sense from what we know to add another Final Fantasy character.

The department that runs Final Fantasy is notorious for being clowns. Dragon Quest is run by a different section so it doesn't have that issue.

Why he wouldn't, if he gets a character that people would like? Speculation threads act like characters are added in Smash because of extra content, but they are mostly a bonus for fighters themselves.

Again, people were saying the same thing about a DQ character, too (SE is stingy, Sakurai wouldn't bother). They just moved goalposts after Hero got in.

It's more logical to assume the problem in FF content is royalty issues born from SE allowing to creators to keep their creations' rights, not a company playing hard to get for the sake of it.

 

[ZelDan]

Why would you imagine it would be fine when Square barely gives the series anything to begin with? Why would Sakurai even bother trying to add another FF character if Square is playing hardball like this? It makes little sense from what we know to add another Final Fantasy character.

The department that runs Final Fantasy is notorious for being clowns. Dragon Quest is run by a different section so it doesn't have that issue.

Well, the lack of music is more due to Final Fantasy's composer and less Square Enix, isn't it? Might not be entirely SE's fault Smash is lacking in FF content

I don't know what the lack of spirits is about though. Unless SE also has a stingy artist I'm not aware of.

 

[EarlTamm]

Why he wouldn't, if he gets a character that people would like? Speculation threads act like characters are added in Smash because of extra content, but they are mostly a bonus for fighters themselves.

Again, people were saying the same thing about a DQ character, too (SE is stingy, Sakurai wouldn't bother). They just moved goalposts after Hero got in.

It's more logical to assume the problem in FF content is royalty issues born from SE allowing to creators to keep their creations' rights, not a company playing hard to get for the sake of it.

While I doubt FF would be next in line when it comes to Square, there is no doubt in my mind that the lack of things like music and art is not due to any stinginess and rather legal shenanigans. DQ and it's inclusion proved otherwise, at least so far.

 

[StormC]

Why he wouldn't, if he gets a character that people would like? Speculation threads act like characters are added in Smash because of extra content, but they are mostly a bonus for fighters themselves.

Again, people were saying the same thing about a DQ character, too (SE is stingy, Sakurai wouldn't bother). They just moved goalposts after Hero got in.

It's more logical to assume the problem in FF content is royalty issues born from SE allowing to creators to keep their creations' rights, not a company playing hard to get for the sake of it.

Dragon Quest is a completely different situation. Different department and people in charge. Is this meant to be a "gotcha?" Because I don't think I've ever claimed a DQ character was impossible and have believed a DQ character was coming for months.

We haven't even seen non-echo secondary characters be added to guest series. It's a bit of a stretch to assume we will see a second FF character anytime soon. If Sakurai literally talked to Nomura over adding Cloud but couldn't put in any FF7 artwork, despite Nomura actually drawing the art for the game. That's more damning to me than anything. We also have a known Square leaker saying Cloud was a "pricey fellow" to get into Smash.

This is the same company that patched Final Fantasy VII on Switch and Xbone, but not PS4. They also patched IX on PS4 but no other systems. I wouldn't give them much credit to act sensibly when handling the Final Fantasy license.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I feel like the reason FF has so little stuff in Ultimate is that Nintendo only renewed the stuff they'd already got for Smash 4.

If they actually went back and negotiated to get another Final Fantasy character, they'd probably also get a bunch of songs/spirits/mii costumes/etc. in the process.

 

[MajoraMan28]

If we are getting more fighter pas (which would not surprise me) I¨m going to go on a limb that Sora and Sephiroth are a guarantee.

Ps.. this whole Etika situation is just tragic

Both of them being in the same pass, to me, sounds impossible.
I find it more likely to be one or the other.

I swear to God people would add every single character from FF7 and Persona 5 before they even consider characters from other entries in the series, ****ing hell.

You can't blame people when specifically VII has characters that top popularity charts to this day. And, specially, VII is the game to be specifically mentioned as a franchise in Smash Bros., not FF. It gets hard to root for Terra or Cecil with that in mind.

Support Black Mage. Obviously.

"Black mage" is only taken seriously by Nintendo fans that aren't that into FF. Any FF fan out there wouldn't say that a generic class from the first three games would be as relevant or as popular as a protagonist like Terra, Cecil and Bartz. If they ask for a black mage, it's specifically a character, in this case being Vivi.

Well, the lack of music is more due to Final Fantasy's composer and less Square Enix, isn't it? Might not be entirely SE's fault Smash is lacking in FF content

I don't know what the lack of spirits is about though. Unless SE also has a stingy artist I'm not aware of.

No. Uematsu is a close friend of Sakurai, and I doubt he would turn him down.
It had more to do with Cloud being in Smash at a time when SE was just about to get closer to Nintendo. They didn't trust them fully yet.
I'll say, the content missing does fit a fighter pass pack perfectly. It makes me suspicious if there is a future pass.

 

[Cheezey Bites]

a generic class from the first three games

Here we see someone who has only played one final fantasy game.

Obviously I jest, but the job system does not appear in the second game at all, but here's a list of the games where black mage does appear:

I
III
V
Tactics
XI
X-2
Tactics Advance
Tactics A2
XII International
XIV
Tactics S
Fables: Chocobo's Dungeon
Grandmasters
4 heroes of light (with a snazzy top hat)
Dimensions
Explorers
Dimensions II
Crystal Defenders
Crystal Chronicles: My Life as a King
Crystal Chronicles: My Life as a Dark Lord (as an enemy)

(And that's ignoring stuff like Pictologica and stuff because there are just too many Final Fantasy games to list everything)

So, it's pretty prolific... if it'll matter to an audience that generally has moved on from the classics is questionable, especially as the fans of the classics have generally moved on from it to Bravely, Octopath, or even out into SaGa and other more hardcore jRPGs... but it's wrong to diminish the appearances of the job class.

 

[Minik]

Sad thing about FF is that it basically feels like its not in smash, it doesnt even go past one game anymore (it only did in 4 thanks to chocobo hat). It felt like it was done JUST for people asking for Cloud, even FF7 wise you just get 2 midis, a stage that while has good summons, is just a plain battlefield most of the time which in ultimate its hard to tell if its even in its BF form sometimes. I'm still up for them adding a chocobo since they'd contrast heavily with cloud, be able to represent typical FF jobs and give FF its second chance for everything outside of 7.

 

[Oddball]

Any FF fan out there wouldn't say that a generic class from the first three games would be as relevant or as popular as a protagonist like Terra, Cecil and Bartz. If they ask for a black mage, it's specifically a character, in this case being Vivi.

I used to be HUGE into Final Fantasy and Black Mage (not Vivi, Black Mage) would be one of my top choices for a FF character. Not that Vivi is bad or anything, he's got a great design for a Black Mage but that's just it. He's just a black mage. Why have a black mage when you can have Black Mage?

Also, the idea that most FF fans would actually think Bartz is more popular is laughable.

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly while I wouldn't mind Black Mage, it just feels like a bland choice somewhat especially when talking about FF where there's a few memorable characters that would be more fun to have in Smash like Terra, Tidus, Sephiroth, Onion Knight, amonh others.

I used to be HUGE into Final Fantasy and Black Mage (not Vivi, Black Mage) would be one of my top choices for a FF character. Not that Vivi is bad or anything, he's got a great design for a Black Mage but that's just it. He's just a black mage. Why have a black mage when you can have Black Mage?

Also, the idea that most FF fans would actually think Bartz is more popular is laughable.

I would prefer Vivi to BM honestly, if just because I like Vivi as a character.

 

[MajoraMan28]

Here we see someone who has only played one final fantasy game.

Obviously I jest, but the job system does not appear in the second game at all, but here's a list of the games where black mage does appear:

I
III
V
Tactics
XI
X-2
Tactics Advance
Tactics A2
XII International
XIV
Tactics S
Fables: Chocobo's Dungeon
Grandmasters
4 heroes of light (with a snazzy top hat)
Dimensions
Explorers
Dimensions II
Crystal Defenders
Crystal Chronicles: My Life as a King
Crystal Chronicles: My Life as a Dark Lord (as an enemy)

(And that's ignoring stuff like Pictologica and stuff because there are just too many Final Fantasy games to list everything)

So, it's pretty prolific... if it'll matter to an audience that generally has moved on from the classics is questionable, especially as the fans of the classics have generally moved on from it to Bravely, Octopath, or even out into SaGa and other more hardcore jRPGs... but it's wrong to diminish the appearances of the job class.

I'm sure you understood me when I said what he was. Black mage is a type of character featured in the NES games.
Spinoffs are completely irrelevant, and tbh, again, this pick makes no sense considering FF doesn't center around characters like a generic black mage
I'm sorry, but it's true. Black mage isn't a single character. It's a type of character you can use in I and III, and is a class in V. Vivi is the closest you can get.

I used to be HUGE into Final Fantasy and Black Mage (not Vivi, Black Mage) would be one of my top choices for a FF character. Not that Vivi is bad or anything, he's got a great design for a Black Mage but that's just it. He's just a black mage. Why have a black mage when you can have Black Mage?

Also, the idea that most FF fans would actually think Bartz is more popular is laughable.

Uhh, popular being more loved. Bartz is loved quite a lot in the FF fanbase. The admiration people have for BM is completely different from any established character. BM is an iconic type of character, that is mostly iconic for its design. Bartz has a solid foundation and following for him as a character.

I would prefer Vivi to BM honestly, if just because I like Vivi as a character.

This logic right here explains what I meant.
And I share his idea. I too would prefer Vivi.
Bc he is an established character that is relevant to his game.

Notice that Sakurai never even mentioned BM as a possible candidate.

 

[ARandomZoomer]

Why not make Vivi the character and give him early FF Black Mage as an alt?

 

[MajoraMan28]

Why not make Vivi the character and give him early FF Black Mage as an alt?

That is exactly my idea for Vivi, if he ever came to Smash

 

[ZelDan]

Sad thing about FF is that it basically feels like its not in smash, it doesnt even go past one game anymore (it only did in 4 thanks to chocobo hat). It felt like it was done JUST for people asking for Cloud, even FF7 wise you just get 2 midis, a stage that while has good summons, is just a plain battlefield most of the time which in ultimate its hard to tell if its even in its BF form sometimes. I'm still up for them adding a chocobo since they'd contrast heavily with cloud, be able to represent typical FF jobs and give FF its second chance for everything outside of 7.

Well, we could see the chocobo hat return as a Mii costume around when Hero is releasing, maybe evn alongside some other new FF-related costumes. We'll see though.

 

[DarthEnderX]

"Black mage" is only taken seriously by Nintendo fans that aren't that into FF. Any FF fan out there wouldn't say that a generic class from the first three games would be as relevant or as popular as a protagonist like Terra, Cecil and Bartz. If they ask for a black mage, it's specifically a character, in this case being Vivi.

Well eat ****, because I want Black Mage, and while my love of the franchise has waned greatly with it's more recent releases, it was my single favorite franchise for two console generations.

That said, Black Mage would make more sense as a costume for the Mii Mage. Unfortunately we don't have a Mii Mage. If we did we could have a full set of FF1 themed Mii costumes.
Swordfighter(Warrior and Ninja)
Brawler(Monk)
Mage(White, Black and Red)

Spinoffs are completely irrelevant

Ooh, I'll have to let some of those Mario characters know they're no longer welcome in Smash.

 

[StellerRJay]

Sad thing about FF is that it basically feels like its not in smash, it doesnt even go past one game anymore (it only did in 4 thanks to chocobo hat). It felt like it was done JUST for people asking for Cloud, even FF7 wise you just get 2 midis, a stage that while has good summons, is just a plain battlefield most of the time which in ultimate its hard to tell if its even in its BF form sometimes. I'm still up for them adding a chocobo since they'd contrast heavily with cloud, be able to represent typical FF jobs and give FF its second chance for everything outside of 7.

I completely agree with you that the whole of FF's representation in Smash could be much better than it is now. And yes yes, I think Chocobo would contrast very nicely with Cloud as well. Being able to represent the usual FF jobs would be a huge plus for sure. Heck, my signature is clear proof of that! Haha~

Although I'm honestly a little biased when it comes to Chocobo if that wasn't obvious enough...!

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'd rather Chocobo be an AT than a character.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I think Chocobo would be a wonderful AT, tbh.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I used to want Chocobo in Smash. Back before Cloud was revealed.
Then I wanted Chocobo & Slime (like how Duck Hunt would end up being).
Of course it stopped once Cloud was revealed.

Looking back, as a fan of FF, Cloud only scratched the surface of FF for me. So much they could have covered.
Lucky, now that at present I’m more of a fan of DQ, I’m so happy that it’s being properly represented. I wish FF had had the same deal DQ got.

Had things gone the way DQ just did, we could have gotten Cloud, Cecil, Bartz, and back then maybe Lightning to be the default much like how Luminary is for DQ.
(I don’t think Squall or Terra would have worked as skins because Squall’s gunblade is considerably shorter, and Terra would have had such a unique gimmick that it wouldnt have made sense to share it with the others. At least Bartz can wield Masamune, or Excalibur and Cecil could get a longsword).

 

[MajoraMan28]

Ooh, I'll have to let some of those Mario characters know they're no longer welcome in Smash.

?
Bruh..
Not a single Mario character is solely part of any spinoff series, except the Doc that is a mere echo and has his own freaking franchise.
All of the characters have a foundation in the core Mario series dude.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Not a single Mario character is solely part of any spinoff series, except the Doc that is a mere echo and has his own freaking franchise.
All of the characters have a foundation in the core Mario series dude.

So just like Black Mage then.

 

[Oddball]

Looking back, as a fan of FF, Cloud only scratched the surface of FF for me. So much they could have covered.
Lucky, now that at present I’m more of a fan of DQ, I’m so happy that it’s being properly represented. I wish FF had had the same deal DQ got.

Had things gone the way DQ just did, we could have gotten Cloud, Cecil, Bartz, and back then maybe Lightning to be the default much like how Luminary is for DQ.
(I don’t think Squall or Terra would have worked as skins because Squall’s gunblade is considerably shorter, and Terra would have had such a unique gimmick that it wouldnt have made sense to share it with the others. At least Bartz can wield Masamune, or Excalibur and Cecil could get a longsword).

Despite havign a second outfit, Cloud feels like he's got the eakest set of alternate outfits out of any character in the game. It's slightly gray-ish blue, or slightly more bluish gray, or whathave you. Having the alts be Squall, Tidus, Zidane, Cecil, and the rest would have been much betetr, even if you did have to change their weapons slightly.

Also, if we're talking altss I'd much rather have classic Fighter than the Warrior of Light guy that SQUARE keeps trying to push. Cloud with red hair and bright red armor would have been so easy to do.

 

[Minik]

I think Cloud alt colours are legal reasons or something, I think its Dissdia that has Clouds alts be just as bad as Smash. If Cloud's alts were more saturated, which they are slightly more than 4, they'd be a lot better.

 

[TheYungLink]

Cloud would never have worked like Hero because almost none of the other Final Fantasy protagonists have huge AF swords like the Buster Sword. It was always gonna be Cloud by himself, especially since when people think of Final Fantasy VII they don't think of magic as much as they think of Limit Breaks.

 

[Deleted member]

Cloud would never have worked like Hero because almost none of the other Final Fantasy protagonists have huge AF swords like the Buster Sword. It was always gonna be Cloud by himself, especially since when people think of Final Fantasy VII they don't think of magic as much as they think of Limit Breaks.

Yeah, I think that addind Limits to Cloud’s moveset was the best choice for Smash.

Limits are just a key and main mechanic on FF7, so it made sense to represent them on the moveset.

 

[TheYungLink]

Yeah, I think that addind Limits to Cloud’s moveset was the best choice for Smash.

Limits are just a key and main mechanic on FF7, so it made sense to represent them on the moveset.

And this isn't to say I wouldn't love other Final Fantasy protagonists, but I think they'd all have to be unique from each other.

• Terra would need a temporary super mode with her Esper form
• Cecil would need to either be a transformation character like Zelda / Sheik to represent both his forms or be more defensive and tanky to represent his Paladin form
• Black Mage (who could stand in for the Warriors of Light from FF1 since I don't think Smash would just stick the fan character made for Dissidia in Smash) would need to be more projectile and magic-based
• (I guess there are people who care about FF2 and FF3 but I don't know about them enough)
• Squall would need to be a mix of up close and keep away to represent how his gun blade works

And the list goes on and on. I used to have an idea where maybe Terra and Cecil would be clones of each other but I've since dismissed it as unrealistic.

Basically they'd all need to be completely unique from each other, unlike Hero whose Dragon Quest protagonists all have very similar powers and skills throughout the years save for a few exceptions like 2 (no magic) and 5 (would need a unique moveset revolving around monster summoning and taming).

Edit: and of course, because they'd all need to be unique, that severely cuts down on all their chances as none of them could be easy clones or Echo Fighters.

 

[MajoraMan28]

So just like Black Mage then.

Didn't know Black Mage was the main character of his own separate franchise or a central character (keyword: character) to a core game in a character-focused series.
Anyway, this is just going in circles. I love BM as a figure from the NES era, but not as a character, and I don't think he represents the series as good as MCs or even mascots like Moogle and Chocobo.
I respect your opinion. Let's just accept we don't agree and move on as mature gentlemen



And I think it's unfair to compare the FF situation to the DQ one.
The contracts were made in different time periods for the companies and how they relate to each other. Cloud was the ambassador that made the companies return to a great relationship, while DQ is just the fruits of this better status in general.

 

[GoodGrief741]

(I guess there are people who care about FF2 and FF3 but I don't know about them enough)

Only FF2 fan on the planet, reporting for duty!

Firionel could make attacks stronger by using them, like with FF2's unique experience system.