[SPOILER ALERT] - The Sevens Squares. - A Square-Enix general support threads.

[DarthEnderX]

Lost Levels was functionally just Worlds 9-21 of SMB1.

 

[MajoraMan28]

Worst core Mario games are NSMB2, NSMBU and Sunshine
And none of them are inherently bad games in the slightest.
NSMB2, the worst of the bunch, is there more due to its overliance on a gimmick surrounded by a game with no new design concepts, rather than being bad.
The gameplay and design are still great.

And if you want to compare Daisy's role with Mario's, you need to understand what each core series centers around.
Mario isn't a character focused series, but more on iconic figures that follow classic tropes.
FF is a series that evolved into a character focused franchise.

 

[HyruleHero]

Worst core Mario games are NSMB2, NSMBU and Sunshine.

I know I'm in the minority in this opinion but Sunshine is by no means the worst Mario game. Everything about that game is fun, the world is alive and full of new characters. Just because the long jump isn't in the game doesn't make it bad. I would argue that both Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 are worse than sunshine. These games put 3d Mario into the decline and made the game feel more like a level by level game rather than a vast world that mario lives in. I'm glad odyssey brought back large worlds that feel fluid but I hope the next 3d mario has a single hub world that connect to other worlds.

Other than that the NSMB is part of the reason for Mario's good games so I agree there.

 

[Deleted member]

Sunshine rocks.

I love the setting of that game.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Worst core Mario games are NSMB2, NSMBU and Sunshine
And none of them are inherently bad games in the slightest.
NSMB2, the worst of the bunch, is there more due to its overliance on a gimmick surrounded by a game with no new design concepts, rather than being bad.
The gameplay and design are still great.

I'd still much rather plan any of those games than SML.

FF is a series that evolved into a character focused franchise.

Key world there is evolved. i.e. it's what the series eventually became. And there's no reason that multiple Smash characters would only have to represent the latter part of the series.

 

[MajoraMan28]

I know I'm in the minority in this opinion but Sunshine is by no means the worst Mario game. Everything about that game is fun, the world is alive and full of new characters. Just because the long jump isn't in the game doesn't make it bad. I would argue that both Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 are worse than sunshine. These games put 3d Mario into the decline and made the game feel more like a level by level game rather than a vast world that mario lives in. I'm glad odyssey brought back large worlds that feel fluid but I hope the next 3d mario has a single hub world that connect to other worlds.

Other than that the NSMB is part of the reason for Mario's good games so I agree there.

I never said it was THE worst. But one of. And with the generation of people that grew up with the gamecube being around 20 or less by now, these people are the ones that ae speaking up more on the net and have reached mainsteam appeal, so it is not a minority opinion whatsoever.
And I couldn't disagree more with your statement on the Galaxy games, specially comparing it to Sunshine.
But to each their own.

I'd still much rather plan any of those games than SML.

Key world there is evolved. i.e. it's what the series eventually became. And there's no reason that multiple Smash characters would only have to represent the latter part of the series.

Honestly, you are the first person I ever heard that dislikes SML this much.

Regarding FF, it became a character focused series as early as II.
Generic classes that aren't even obligatory characters in the party were more of a thing in I and III. 2 of 15 entries in the series.
It doesn't really represent that much.

 

[Deleted member]

I refuse to consider Sunshine close to being one of the worst Mario games when Hotel Mario or Mario’s Time Machine exists.

 

[MajoraMan28]

I refuse to consider Sunshine close to being one of the worst Mario games when Hotel Mario or Mario’s Time Machine exists.

Keyword "Core" my dude.
And canon. None of those really are.
But nice joke, if it was sarcasm (couldn't read it bc it isn't easy to grasp on the Internet)

 

[Deleted member]

Keyword "Core" my dude.
And canon. None of those really are.
But nice joke, if it was sarcasm (couldn't read it bc it isn't easy to grasp on the Internet)

It wasn’t sarcasm.

I really refuse to think that Sunshine is that bad.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Honestly, you are the first person I ever heard that dislikes SML this much.

I was really never a big fan of early Gameboy games in general. I never had much use for portability, so for me, a lot of it was games that looked, sounded, and usually played, worse that the original NES games in their franchises.

SML is worse than SMB1. Castlevania Adventure is worse than Castlevania. Metroid II is worse than Metroid. Final Fantasy Legend wasn't as good as FF1(though, in fairness, it was actually a SaGa game), etc.

Link's Awakening is one of the few exceptions to this. Which, while not as good as LttP, is at least better than Zelda 1 and 2.

It wasn’t sarcasm.

I really refuse to think that Sunshine is that bad.

I think it's less him saying that Sunshine is that bad, and more that he was saying Hotel and Time Machine aren't core Mario games.

Although, personally, I consider the 3D Mario games and the 2D Mario games to be two separate subseries.

Like, 2D Super Mario Bros. 1-8 is:
SMB1, SMB: Lost Levels, SMB3, SMW, NSMB, NSMBWii, NSMB2, NSMBU

And then 3D Mario 1-7 is:
Mario 64, Sunshine, Galaxy, Galaxy 2, 3D Land, 3D World, Odyssey

 

[MajoraMan28]

It wasn’t sarcasm.

I really refuse to think that Sunshine is that bad.

The sarcasm that I mentioned was you taking Hotel Mario and Mario is Missing seriously.

DarthEnderX got it

I was really never a big fan of early Gameboy games in general. I never had much use for portability, so for me, a lot of it was games that looked, sounded, and usually played, worse that the original NES games in their franchises.

SML is worse than SMB1. Castlevania Adventure is worse than Castlevania. Metroid II is worse than Metroid. Final Fantasy Legend wasn't as good as FF1(though, in fairness, it was actually a SaGa game), etc.

Link's Awakening is one of the few exceptions to this. Which, while not as good as LttP, is at least better than Zelda 1 and 2.
I think it's less him saying that Sunshine is that bad, and more that he was saying Hotel and Time Machine aren't core Mario games.

Although, personally, I consider the 3D Mario games and the 2D Mario games to be two separate subseries.

Like, 2D Super Mario Bros. 1-8 is:
SMB1, SMB: Lost Levels, SMB3, SMW, NSMB, NSMBWii, NSMB2, NSMBU

And then 3D Mario 1-7 is:
Mario 64, Sunshine, Galaxy, Galaxy 2, 3D Land, 3D World, Odyssey

You forgot SMB2 or USA (whichever you prefer to call it).
And I get where you're coming from, but them not outmatching the NES games that were already excellent doesn't mean it was a lower tier game.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

...Final Fantasy Adventure isn't actually a FF game. It's a Mana game. It was just a title to make it sell better(and the game was pretty good overall too, just a completely different genre).

That said, good and bad are subjective. Not everybody is going to like some games. Probably better to just let it go than going around in circles over nothing important. It's also a derail that went more than a short bit, and has overtaken the thread pretty hard. So yeah, let's just move on.

 

[GoodGrief741]

There are no bad Mario games and this is off-topic.

 

[Minik]

There are no bad Mario games and this is off-topic.

What even is the topic now that DQ has gotten in, is there still speculation as for what Square Enix charcter would be getting in?

 

[GoodGrief741]

What even is the topic now that DQ has gotten in, is there still speculation as for what Square Enix charcter would be getting in?

I guess the discussion now is more on the hypothetical side, as in 'If another SE rep got in, who'd they be?'

 

[KillerCage]

There are no bad Mario games and this is off-topic.

Sticker Star would like a word with you.

On the topic of third Square Enix rep, two characters I think could offer something new to Smash Bro are Sora and Lara Croft.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Sticker Star would like a word with you.

On the topic of third Square Enix rep, two characters I think could offer something new to Smash Bro are Sora and Lara Croft.

There are no bad Mario games, therefore either Sticker Star isn't a Mario game or it doesn't exist. I think everyone would be happy with either option.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Incidentally I enjoyed Sticker Star. Needs improvements, but it was overall a mediocre product that got changed more than it should've. It still performed pretty well sales-wise, so I doubt it was lack of quality here. It's definitely not a game for nostalgic fans of the first two Paper Mario games, though to be fair, it also depends exactly what aspects you fully liked on Paper Mario. Overall, the action commands and being turn-based in a slow manner is the biggest thing I loved about it, so I couldn't honestly hate on Sticker Star at all. I do think it needs improvements either way.

Hotel Mario might be the only real contender... which Nintendo didn't approve of, coincidentally.

As for a SE character(not counting Sora cause he's Disney), Geno does feel like a decent possibility, unless we could get an Echo for Cloud or something. I'm not sure we'd get a bigger unique character otherwise. They're certainly possible, but those who are far easier to make might also have a somewhat better chance. Though it's not just licensing to worry about, as that probably won't change much if it's an Echo or unique anyway.

 

[KillerCage]

There are no bad Mario games, therefore either Sticker Star isn't a Mario game or it doesn't exist. I think everyone would be happy with either option.

OH! In that case, there are no bad Metroid games.

 

[EarlTamm]

OH! In that case, there are no bad Metroid games.

There are no bad Kirby games no matter what way you look at it.

 

[KillerCage]

Incidentally I enjoyed Sticker Star. Needs improvements, but it was overall a mediocre product that got changed more than it should've. It still performed pretty well sales-wise, so I doubt it was lack of quality here. It's definitely not a game for nostalgic fans of the first two Paper Mario games, though to be fair, it also depends exactly what aspects you fully liked on Paper Mario. Overall, the action commands and being turn-based in a slow manner is the biggest thing I loved about it, so I couldn't honestly hate on Sticker Star at all. I do think it needs improvements either way.

I didn't particularly loved or hated for the partner system in the first two Paper Mario games, so the genre shift in Super Paper Mario didn't bother me. What I truly cared for was the characters, humor, and story. All three were missing in Sticker Star and that ruined my experience for the game. The puzzle bosses made the game unnecessarily difficult and when I saw the final boss' health points, I just stopped. Don't get me started with the Kamek battles; they were the bane of my existence.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I didn't particularly loved or hated for the partner system in the first two Paper Mario games, so the genre shift in Super Paper Mario didn't bother me. What I truly cared for was the characters, humor, and story. All three were missing in Sticker Star and that ruined my experience for the game. The puzzle bosses made the game unnecessarily difficult and when I saw the final boss' health points, I just stopped. Don't get me started with the Kamek battles; they were the bane of my existence.

That's why I consider it mediocre. Game plays fine and all. The story is fine, just not interesting. I don't feel it did anything actually bad, just it wasn't a good way to start the series back up overall.

Though I honestly liked the partners more than the dialogue alone. It's nice Color Splash returned the humor.

 

[GoodGrief741]

There are no bad Kirby games no matter what way you look at it.

(Real question: Do people really think Kirby and the Amazing Mirror is good?)

 

[EarlTamm]

(Real question: Do people really think Kirby and the Amazing Mirror is good?)

I think so. People certainly don't think it's bad. Not the most praised game alive, but certainly not disliked.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I think so. People certainly don't think it's bad. Not the most praised game alive, but certainly not disliked.

Huh.

 

[DarthEnderX]

...Final Fantasy Adventure isn't actually a FF game. It's a Mana game.

Nobody said Final Fantasy Adventure. I said Final Fantasy Legend. Which is a SaGa game.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Nobody said Final Fantasy Adventure. I said Final Fantasy Legend. Which is a SaGa game.

Ah, my bad.

I remember little of it.

...Wait, isn't SaGa a different series? I forget what that stands for.

 

[EarlTamm]

Huh.

What are you thinking?

 

[DarthEnderX]

...Wait, isn't SaGa a different series? I forget what that stands for.

Yes. And just like Seiken Densetsu, the early games were renamed to Final Fantasy in NA.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yes. And just like Seiken Densetsu, the early games were renamed to Final Fantasy in NA.

Then overall the point I was trying to make stands. It's not a bad FF game. It's simply a game in a different franchise you find bad.

Nothing wrong with that, but it felt like what you said was pretty misleading overall.

 

[ZelDan]

(Real question: Do people really think Kirby and the Amazing Mirror is good?)

It's...not terrible. I'm not particularly crazy about it myself though. I feel the game is weaker in comparison to other metroidvanias.

If there was one Kirby game I'd consider "bad", I'd say Kirby: Mass Attack. The really long levels along with how annoying it was to babysit and manage 10 small Kirby's just made the game such a drag, not to mention complete hell if one wanted to get all Gold stars on every level. It's just not very fun at all.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Man you gotta love the mess they did when localizing the SaGa and Mana games. It cost them dearly too, they could have had two Final Fantasy caliber franchises if they'd stuck with their original names. Same with DQ really.

What are you thinking?

Nothing, I just thought KatAM was pretty lousy so I was surprised.

 

[EarlTamm]

It's...not terrible. I'm not particularly crazy about it myself though. I feel the game is weaker in comparison to other metroidvanias.

If there was one Kirby game I'd consider "bad", I'd say Kirby: Mass Attack. The really long levels along with how annoying it was to babysit and manage 10 small Kirby's just made the game such a drag, not to mention complete hell if one wanted to get all Gold stars on every level. It's just not very fun at all.

I think that is result of it being a multiplayer metroidvania. While it is certainly unique, I imagine that caused the design to be rather different.

Never played that one, but I hear people liked it.

Nothing, I just thought KatAM was pretty lousy so I was surprised.

About what I expected. Did you ever try out the multiplayer?

I will say, it's funny that the Amazing Mirror is being brought up, as one of my favorite Youtuber groups is currently playing the multiplayer right now(Well, not right now, they are uploading a series of it).

 

[GoodGrief741]

I think that is result of it being a multiplayer metroidvania. While it is certainly unique, I imagine that caused the design to be rather different.

Never played that one, but I hear people liked it.

About what I expected. Did you ever try out the multiplayer?

I will say, it's funny that the Amazing Mirror is being brought up, as one of my favorite Youtuber groups is currently playing the multiplayer right now(Well, not right now, they are uploading a series of it).

I never tried out the multiplayer. Maybe I was just looking at the game through the wrong lens.

While we're at it I really like Mass Attack, I find it adorable.

 

[EarlTamm]

I never tried out the multiplayer. Maybe I was just looking at the game through the wrong lens.

While we're at it I really like Mass Attack, I find it adorable.

There is apparently some problems with the multiplayer, but it seems to be due to the limitations at the time(Slowdown, opening the map opens it for everyone). Even then, it seems easy to get used to among a group. In case you are curious, I will share a link to to the let's play of the multiplayer down below, as that is where I am currently seeing this. Still incredible that it could run it at all. And yes, Mass Attack is adorable. And slightly horrifying. The sight of 10 small Kirby's rushing those poor enemies is cutely terrifying.

 

[KillerCage]

There is aberrantly some problems with the multiplayer, but it seems to be due to the limitations at the time(Slowdown, opening the map opens it for everyone). Even then, it seems easy to get used to among a group. In case you are curious, I will share a link to to the let's play of the multiplayer down below, as that is where I am currently seeing this. Still incredible that it could run it at all. And yes, Mass Attack is adorable. And slightly horrifying. The sight of 10 small Kirby's rushing those poor enemies is cutely terrifying.

I recently played Amazing Mirror and boy it kicked my %&@. That is rare to see that in a Kirby game if we are excluding the True Arenas. It is the game where you can inhale Master Hand to get the Smash ability. On the topic of Mass Attack, I had fun especially with the mini-games. I still want a Kirby RPG to this day!

Spoiler: Spoilers for the RPG mini-game

This is so far the only game appearance of Escargoon from "Kirby of the Stars/Kirby: Right back at Ya."

If you want to talk about disturbing material surrounding Mass Attack, check out its commercial!

Of course there is the North American commerical, but that one is less disturbing and more... weird.

 

[EarlTamm]

Figured it would be a good idea to quote this here.

I'd like to officially announce to you all that Operation Starfall is publicly underway!

View attachment 231397​

We have taken inspiration from the varying success of Operation Moonfall, a petition to bring Majora's Mask to the 3DS, and Operation Rainfall, the campaign to release many Japan-exclusive titles worldwide. Our main goal is to bring Super Mario RPG back into the public eye in some form, whether it be through the mainline Mario universe, a remake, or perhaps something more. On top of that, we want to rally all of SMRPG's fans into a condensed, easy to find place in order to express the sheer magnitude of the support. There hasn't really been a hub that could properly show the fans, so we want to change that. I wanted to extend the hand to you all as you would be the exact type to enjoy it!

If you're interested, check out a few of these links!

Spoiler: Linky Dinky

Website: https://www.operationstarfall.com
SmashBoards: https://smashboards.com/threads/operation-starfall-bringing-life-to-smrpg-again.467163/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/operationstarfall
Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/opestarfall
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/349713989059622/

 

[GoodGrief741]

Figured it would be a good idea to quote this here.

I wish you guys the best of luck!

 

[MajoraMan28]

Sakurai, why do you do this to me, after Hero being announced? ;_;

 

[AugustusB]

Sakurai, why do you do this to me, after Hero being announced? ;_;

Subtle Mii Costume hint?