[SPOILER ALERT] - The Sevens Squares. - A Square-Enix general support threads.

[Deleted member]

I already acknowledged there were others as well, I was just saying it could help. It's not like he's some Bubsy. Sakurai at least specifically mentioned Geno's demand.

No, it's not obvious. The only example we have is Joker, and they could've just monetized the costumes as soon as possible if that were the case. We don't know if 6 costumes is their standard or if they just go with whatever they think works, and bring whatever back. We have nothing to base this off of except for one single case. People were taken aback by the lack of Geno's costume because of everyone crapping on him by saying he'd just be a costume with some being plain rude about it, and Sakurai's words regarding it last game. A lot of people actually think we won't get another SE character except for people who are healthily hoping for Geno and think he has a shot, and of course whoever else for other characters but most of those who are hoping for someone other than Geno aren't even considering his mii costume as far as I know.

The thing about Spirits is that they could've been worked on before Sakurai knew about DLC (January 2018) which I find most-likely considering the whole new World of Light mode, the amount of spirits, nearly each one having a battle, and of course the other Spirit systems they had to code. It's entirely possible he wanted Geno and Mallow spirits beforehand, and Nintendo let him have them because why not so they asked Square, and then when DLC comes around they let Sakurai choose Geno or they even had him on their mind; they could've just not cared about him being a spirit in the base-game (why would they care if he's both playable and a spirit?) so they just said yes before they finished their DLC plans (which it's clear they wouldn't have until close to when they let Sakurai know, and they wouldn't have started negotiations until after that since it seems Sakurai had some form of control based on his tweet).

Spirits lore is also already messed up. You can have multiple of each spirit, including Geno's. There's really no reason for them to be taken so seriously in that regard or for nobody to think about when they may have been chosen in regards to when DLC stuff started. I highly doubt Sakurai would reject the idea just because "well my team and I already made them a png you can receive endless times through a battle so I'm afraid I can't" when he probably didn't know about DLC when he and his spirits team added them, as I said.



alright then.

yes, theories may not pan out, and of course the theories tied to backgrounds and reveal trailers definitely won't unless it's pure coincidence anyway.

That also means there's possibly no actual strict mii costume pattern or that Square saved the two costumes for later.

But that also means there's a possibility that Geno's Mii costume not returning is not linked to anything other than Nintendo not wanting it back. That was my main point, as missing spirits were used as arguments as well in the past. Something missing does not equal its coming later.

 

[AugustusB]

But that also means there's a possibility that Geno's Mii costume not returning is not linked to anything other than Nintendo not wanting it back. That was my main point, as missing spirits were used as arguments as well in the past. Something missing does not equal its coming later.

Not just Nintendo, but Square as well. Hero having nothing but Dragon Quest mii costumes makes sense (to an extent). Market DQ 11S to the West. It could not have been JUST Nintendo, IF the Geno Costume was dropped.

 

[TheCJBrine]

But that also means there's a possibility that Geno's Mii costume not returning is not linked to anything other than Nintendo not wanting it back. That was my main point, as missing spirits were used as arguments as well in the past. Something missing does not equal its coming later.

Yes, it doesn't mean anything is actually going to come or that there are or aren't actually standards or patterns. We just argue about it.

As it is with all speculation.

 

[SSGuy]

I'm not sure why anyone at this point would be rooting against Geno or trying to shoot the hope's of his fans down.

Even if you are neutral about him, the idea of him finally getting in would be pretty cool. He's being this elephant in the room of a topic and has such a huge disadvantage when it comes to having a topical discussion about him.

It would be such an amazing feeling for Sakurai to finally give the fans what they have waited over a decade for.

How could you be against something like that?

 

[MajoraMan28]

You really think there's no way the spirits could've been chosen before 2018? Sakurai only knew about DLC since January 2018, he even said Nintendo did it without letting the devs know, but of course based on his tweet in November he seemed to have some form of control; it wasn't all planned at once just two months before the game, though, but admittedly it'd be even better for Geno's chances if it somehow was; Sakurai never said anything about Spirits being planned alongside DLC and I highly doubt it was, and I can't see how they could've worked on and finished all of the spirits stuff in only two months given how much there is; coding isn't easy. It's more-likely that, with all the work they'd need to code all the spirits stuff and get them ready, that he could've wanted Geno, Mallow, and other spirits pre-2018. The game's project plan finished in December 2015, they've had about exactly 3 years to code this game, and perhaps he and his team would've even put stuff they'd need to negotiate for on the plan, such as the Geno spirit. There's literally no way it was all done in 2018, it's not possible, and the Spirits stuff very likely could've been done before 2018. Sakurai even teased the new mode in the August direct, keeping it a secret so they could save it for later.

If Geno is a fighter, his fighter spirit could either be his true form (the star) or his doll body's sprite if not only his Ultimate render (like Cloud, Wii Fit Trainer, and Robin), and they can easily rename his other spirit to "Geno (Doll)" or "Geno (Super Mario RPG)" just like "Pit (Classic)."

Sakurai specifically said that DLC was finalized in November or late October. The DLC planning, contracts getting signed, list of potential candidates, everything, had to be ready tons of months in advance. The development itself started after the game had gone gold, but the candidates list and spirits were all coexisting for a while before Sakurai's announcement. The spirits didn't take two months to complete at all.

Regarding editing the spirit, two things:
1) It relies heavily on changing a previously finalized spirit on the code and graphically. If they had that plan early on, they wouldn't have named Geno that manner.
2) The example you gave is specifically an alternate version of the character, based on an early game and art. Geno's art and sprite all refer to the same character and appearance. It wouldn't make sense to have that naming for the non-fighter spirit.

But at the end of the day, Geno could be the first character to truly throw every single logic Sakurai has gone by out the window just for the fanservice.
For now, I'll follow what I have at hand and the logic that it can be deduced from.

Not just Nintendo, but Square as well. Hero having nothing but Dragon Quest mii costumes makes sense (to an extent). Market DQ 11S to the West. It could not have been JUST Nintendo, IF the Geno Costume was dropped.

No it doesn't. SE is a company that never misses an opportunity to monetize their IP. They even have granted Nintendo permission to use Geno and the FFVII characters in Smash, it makes no sense to restrict them from selling them. This isn't a spirits is missing thing. This is something that involves third parties as well, specifically a company that is very prone to go for something like this.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Sakurai specifically said that DLC was finalized in November or late October. The DLC planning, contracts getting signed, list of potential candidates, everything, had to be ready tons of months in advance. The development itself started after the game had gone gold, but the candidates list and spirits were all coexisting for a while before Sakurai's announcement. The spirits didn't take two months to complete at all.

Regarding editing the spirit, two things:
1) It relies heavily on changing a previously finalized spirit on the code and graphically. If they had that plan early on, they wouldn't have named Geno that manner.
2) The example you gave is specifically an alternate version of the character, based on an early game and art. Geno's art and sprite all refer to the same character and appearance. It wouldn't make sense to have that naming for the non-fighter spirit.

But at the end of the day, Geno could be the first character to truly throw every single logic Sakurai has gone by out the window just for the fanservice.
For now, I'll follow what I have at hand and the logic that it can be deduced from.

According to Opossum, whom people seem to know as having a bit of inside info sometimes, Banjo & Kazooie were negotiated for in April last year. I doubt the character planning and negotiating would've taken any longer than from the end of January/early February to when Sakurai tweeted his statement on DLC in November, though Nintendo could've had some plans before then but still let Sakurai have Geno's spirit before they let him know about DLC because they possibly, simply don't care if a character is a spirit in base-game; if they wanted Geno, they could've even negotiated for him as DLC without letting Sakurai know until January, or even actually didn't plan for him until then; since it's possible a negotiation could fail, plans could even change, since they would have to have the characters in their plans in the first place. Sakurai never said anything as to how long spirits took, so I find it fair that even if they and their modes weren't hard to complete, they still could've been done before Sakurai knew about DLC in January last year as I have been saying. Spirits would clearly be on the project plan and so I don't understand why they somehow had to be finished or planned alongside DLC (which they definitely weren't planned alongside DLC, and Sakurai had a separate team just for Spirits).

Geno's Spirit:
1.) They don't have to change the previous spirit at all except add "(Super Mario RPG)" to its name, which should take only seconds to do assuming the name is literally just a string of code that shows text. They really don't even have to, did they even do that to the Lucas and Mewtwo trophies in Smash 4? They likely don't care.

2.) His alternate form I suggested is still the same character, and I suggested it for his fighter spirit. And it's from the final version of SMRPG, not an early version. His non-fighter spirit can keep the clay-like artwork. His fighter spirit could even be like Wii Fit's, Robin's, and Cloud's; only have the Ultimate artwork. Pit already has his classic design as a non-fighter Spirit, and Super Sonic is a non-fighter Spirit as well. I don't know why we're getting close to the "they're already a png" thing again.

And if other people are considering a second Square character, I hope they consider a second Microsoft character~

edit: I’d like to apologize if I’m coming off as rude in any way. To be honest I can feel defensive sometimes in arguments or debates like this, as I have before, but that isn’t my intention. You raise good points of discussion, I just have these opinions and possibilities regarding them. I’m sorry for anything I’ve put rudely...

 

[GoodGrief741]

I'm not sure why anyone at this point would be rooting against Geno or trying to shoot the hope's of his fans down.

Even if you are neutral about him, the idea of him finally getting in would be pretty cool. He's being this elephant in the room of a topic and has such a huge disadvantage when it comes to having a topical discussion about him.

It would be such an amazing feeling for Sakurai to finally give the fans what they have waited over a decade for.

How could you be against something like that?

I could understand someone wanting a certain caliber of fame or impact on gaming history for Smash characters, particularly when third parties are involved. Mario is also oversaturated with characters, so maybe that amount (and the recent scraping of the bottom of the barrel with Plant) turns people off. And as always, there's competition: some might not want Geno because they see him as competition.

I don't think people hate Geno to the extent that you say, though.

 

[MajoraMan28]

I could understand someone wanting a certain caliber of fame or impact on gaming history for Smash characters, particularly when third parties are involved. Mario is also oversaturated with characters, so maybe that amount (and the recent scraping of the bottom of the barrel with Plant) turns people off. And as always, there's competition: some might not want Geno because they see him as competition.

I don't think people hate Geno to the extent that you say, though.

Very well put

 

[HyruleHero]

I'm not sure why anyone at this point would be rooting against Geno or trying to shoot the hope's of his fans down.

Even if you are neutral about him, the idea of him finally getting in would be pretty cool. He's being this elephant in the room of a topic and has such a huge disadvantage when it comes to having a topical discussion about him.

It would be such an amazing feeling for Sakurai to finally give the fans what they have waited over a decade for.

How could you be against something like that?

I don't hate Geno in any regard but if Nintendo are paying for another Square character I would much prefer bigger gaming icons like Lara Croft or Sora. Given the large number of Mario characters already in smash I would like to think another wouldn't happen to avoid another FE scenario. However if we were to get another Mario character I would much prefer bigger characters like Toad, Paper Mario (although then another link situation would happen) or even Waluigi.

 

[SSGuy]

I don't hate Geno in any regard but if Nintendo are paying for another Square character I would much prefer bigger gaming icons like Lara Croft or Sora. Given the large number of Mario characters already in smash I would like to think another wouldn't happen to avoid another FE scenario. However if we were to get another Mario character I would much prefer bigger characters like Toad, Paper Mario (although then another link situation would happen) or even Waluigi.

I just want the majority of fans to get what they want in the end. November 8th last year was the most important direct in terms with how this game is being treated. After seeing Ridley, K.Rool and even Banjo making it into this game, I think it is finally time we get what we have been waiting for as well. Then I'm all for capping the Mario character list at 10 permanently.

Besides, the RPG games deserve some recognition in Smash.

 

[HyruleHero]

I just want the majority of fans to get what they want in the end. November 8th last year was the most important direct in terms with how this game is being treated. After seeing Ridley, K.Rool and even Banjo making it into this game, I think it is finally time we get what we have been waiting for as well. Then I'm all for capping the Mario character list at 10 permanently.

Besides, the RPG games deserve some recognition in Smash.

I do agree that Geno would be a nice treat to end on but I am a little sick of the RPG character being the majority of DLC so far. I kind of hope the last 2 characters are from different gaming genres, currently the market for the DLC is heavily targeted at people who play JRPG's which isn't a good businesws plan for Nintendo. I expect (or at least believe) that the last two characters will pander to very different target audiences.

 

[Nemuresu]

I just want the majority of fans to get what they want in the end. November 8th last year was the most important direct in terms with how this game is being treated. After seeing Ridley, K.Rool and even Banjo making it into this game, I think it is finally time we get what we have been waiting for as well. Then I'm all for capping the Mario character list at 10 permanently.

Besides, the RPG games deserve some recognition in Smash.

Dude, no offense, but wanting Geno fans to be happy is not an excuse to assume people hate a character. Everyone is free to want whatever characters they want and the same goes for thinking whether they're likely or not.

You're taking your desires for Geno way too seriously.

 

[SSGuy]

I do agree that Geno would be a nice treat to end on but I am a little sick of the RPG character being the majority of DLC so far. I kind of hope the last 2 characters are from different gaming genres, currently the market for the DLC is heavily targeted at people who play JRPG's which isn't a good businesws plan for Nintendo. I expect (or at least believe) that the last two characters will pander to very different target audiences.

To clarify, I was referring to the Mario RPGs. Sorry.

 

[Perkilator]

I just want the majority of fans to get what they want in the end. November 8th last year was the most important direct in terms with how this game is being treated. After seeing Ridley, K.Rool and even Banjo making it into this game, I think it is finally time we get what we have been waiting for as well. Then I'm all for capping the Mario character list at 10 permanently.

Besides, the RPG games deserve some recognition in Smash.

...You didn't even get the date of the Direct right. How selfish for Geno can you get?

 

[ZelDan]

Geno does get alot of hate. So do a crapload other characters.

K Rool got hated on because "irrelevancy", Ridley got hated on and got memed to death over the "too big" stuff, Banjo got crapped upon for, again, "irrelevancy."

I've seen Shantae supporters get called perverts or told they only like her because fan service, which I'm sure is largely untrue.

As a huge Isaac supporter, I can tell you that Isaac, as well as Golden Sun in general, gets dumped on quite a damn bit. If I had a dollar everytime somebody called Isaac a generic anime swordsman...

That's just Smash speculation for ya.

 

[REZERO]

I mean to be fair, Ridley did appear in the old Smash game as quite a big figure so I can kind of see the reasoning behind it.

 

[StormC]

It should be considered a miracle that Geno got as much recognition as he did in Smash. Fans certainly aren’t owed him just because they asked for him. He’s a minor character that has to be licensed from a famously stingy company. I wouldn’t be surprised if Nintendo doesn’t want to spring for it. It’s their dime.

Also I’m 99% certain Spirits deconfirm for the Fighters Pass, especially third party ones that had to be negotiated.

 

[DarthEnderX]

What batch of costumes would you have in mind?

I want to see:
FF1 Fighter, Ninja - Mii Swordfighter
FF1 Monk - Mii Brawler
FF1 White Mage, Black Mage, Red Mage - Mii Mage

 

[AugustusB]

I want to see:
FF1 Fighter, Ninja - Mii Swordfighter
FF1 Monk - Mii Brawler
FF1 White Mage, Black Mage, Red Mage - Mii Mage

Mii Mage would honestly be a really neat addition. I don't think we are getting another Square character, but I will certainly entertain the thought of a possible one.
Has there been any new 'evidence' for who our last potential fighters could be? I heard there is a bit for Doom Slayer but nothing else that is solid.

 

[ZelDan]

I mean to be fair, Ridley did appear in the old Smash game as quite a big figure so I can kind of see the reasoning behind it.

Eh, I didn't think it was that absurd of a point either and personally I did have to get used to Ridley's size in Smash Ultimate.

That said while some people brought the point up over genuine concern for Ridley's representation, I'm sure there were those that latched onto the point and spouted it for...less sincere reasons.

 

[SSGuy]

...You didn't even get the date of the Direct right. How selfish for Geno can you get?

Lol

I was thinking the best of times and worst of times when making this post. My bad. Not sure how an honest mistake makes me selfish though.

 

[Ovaltine]

Can we freaking NOT with the heckling of fans of different characters? Can we just... not?

Moments like these make me so embarrassed to be a Geno fan. Sora has valid reasons for support and hope. ****ting on that is beyond immature. Grow the hell up.

 

[MajoraMan28]

Can we freaking NOT with the heckling of fans of different characters? Can we just... not?

Moments like these make me so embarrassed to be a Geno fan. Sora has valid reasons for support and hope. ****ting on that is beyond immature. Grow the hell up.

Thank you
I'm tired of seeing this particular kind of toxicity around here.

Heck, we all like SE characters. Shouldn't that be reason enough to get us together and discuss in a civilized manner?


I wanted to discuss about the potential future here, asking about Mii costumes and your bets for a Squaresoft char in the DLC run for Ult, not see an unnecessary flamewar because of some persecution complex or mindless hate

 

[Ovaltine]

Thank you
I'm tired of seeing this particular kind of toxicity around here.

Heck, we all like SE characters. Shouldn't that be reason enough to get us together and discuss in a civilized manner?


I wanted to discuss about the potential future here, asking about Mii costumes and your bets for a Squaresoft char in the DLC run for Ult, not see an unnecessary flamewar because of some persecution complex or mindless hate

All I can even think about in regards to this post is Sephiroth and Geno fist-bumping, and I can't even begin to say how gratifying that mental image is.

 

[Flik]

Eh, I didn't think it was that absurd of a point either and personally I did have to get used to Ridley's size in Smash Ultimate.

That said while some people brought the point up over genuine concern for Ridley's representation, I'm sure there were those that latched onto the point and spouted it for...less sincere reasons.

Funny how Ridley's size was an issue yet nobody had a problem with the Smash Bros version of Pikachu being a giant compared to his regular size.

Spoiler

Seriously, imagine this absolute unity on Ash's shoulder.

 

[MajoraMan28]

I mean, isn't the current status of speculation fantastic?
We could have had all of this close up and move on, but we still have the thrill to discuss and hype up the future.
This is the season of excitement that the Smash fanbase loves. Once DLC is done, this will all be over.
Shouldn't we appreciate the now and discuss what we think and speculate on how awesome it would be for X or Y character would be?
Wouldn't it be interesting to try to find a line of logic to investigate the potentiality and coherence for future reveals?

All I can even think about in regards to this post is Sephiroth and Geno fist-bumping, and I can't even begin to say how gratifying that mental image is.

I always like the mental images you have. XP

 

[SSGuy]

Just going to drop there here. Already shared with Geno Group but this place deserves it too.

Spoiler

 

[DarthEnderX]

Making your apology a video instead of just, you know, typing it out, makes it seem like you're just trying to get views for your channel.

 

[SSGuy]

Making your apology a video instead of just, you know, typing it out, makes it seem like you're just trying to get views for your channel.

It's unlisted, on my personal channel and it isnt monetized. I have no interest in getting subs or anything like that.

 

[Geno Boost]

Speaking of square-Enix contents in smash series in SSB4 we only got squaresoft contents but in ultimate we now have Enix contents but what is left now is Taito contents do you expect it to happen in the next smash game? Contents from games like bubble bobble dragon, cooking mama and zero wing?

 

[GoodGrief741]

Speaking of square-Enix contents in smash series in SSB4 we only got squaresoft contents but in ultimate we now have Enix contents but what is left now is Taito contents do you expect it to happen in the next smash game? Contents from games like bubble bobble dragon, cooking mama and zero wing?

Square Enix kind of has their plate full by themselves, and after that there's also Lara Croft and their Eidos stuff, so I don't know if we'll get anything from Taito tbh.

Kudos for namedropping Zero Wing though.

 

[Geno Boost]

Square Enix kind of has their plate full by themselves, and after that there's also Lara Croft and their Eidos stuff, so I don't know if we'll get anything from Taito tbh.

Kudos for namedropping Zero Wing though.

yeah i forget about Eidos there is also Gex
CATS from zero wing is my 2nd most wanted square-enix character after Geno but its connected to taito mostly
i want at some point in the future this happens even though its seems really unlucky

 

[RetrogamerMax]

1160219504049131520

Sora just won Guinness World Record! That should be a plus for him to be playable!

You know what other Square-Enix character that has not one, but six Guinness world records? Lara Croft. She has them for the most recognisable female in a video game, most detailed game character, most real-life stand-ins, highest grossing game spin-off, and most successful live-action transfer.

 

[Teeb147]

Now that we know there's more slots, maybe there's a lot more chance for a second SE dlc.

Geno, Sora, another Final Fantasy character, or something different, who knows what could come

 

[kirbsmash]

I want not Superman in.

 

[Arcadenik]

If we get a third Square Enix character in Smash after Cloud and Hero, I can see either Sora or Lara Croft getting in. Tomb Raider and Kingdom Hearts are Square Enix’s 3rd and 4th best selling franchises after Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest... at least according to this.

Square Enix Mii costumes I would like to see:

Final Fantasy series
- Black Mage
- Cecil Harvey from Final Fantasy IV
- Chocobo
- Moogle
- Terra Branford from Final Fantasy VI
- White Mage

Super Mario RPG
- Geno
- Mallow

Secret of Mana
- Randi

Chrono Trigger
- Crono

 

[Teeb147]

Considering that Trials of Mana's remake is coming in 2020, I would say that game in the series could have a shot too. There's no 1 main character from it since you can choose any of them as the protagonist (which includes story stuff). In particular, I'm looking at Liz because she would be different from the dlc we've had (has a spear and isn't a guy). The original wasn't released in the west, though we have the collection now. It was a great game and now the whole world will get to play it in 3d.

Here's all the characters:

 

[Ikkiness]

I do believe if another SE character that gets added will probably be either Sora or Lara Croft just on sheer iconic power of the characters.

However, if Nintendo/SE decides that the character is going to be a promotional tie-in character similar to The Hero, I think it's most likely going to be either a Star Ocean or a Trials of Mana character. Star Ocean: First Departure R is getting released in December and the Trials of Mana remake is coming out next April. Personally, I would prefer a Star Ocean character over a Trials of Mana character, but I wouldn't complain either way.

 

[Teeb147]

I do believe if another SE character that gets added will probably be either Sora or Lara Croft just on sheer iconic power of the characters.

However, if Nintendo/SE decides that the character is going to be a promotional tie-in character similar to The Hero, I think it's most likely going to be either a Star Ocean or a Trials of Mana character. Star Ocean: First Departure R is getting released in December and the Trials of Mana remake is coming out next April. Personally, I would prefer a Star Ocean character over a Trials of Mana character, but I wouldn't complain either way.

I haven't kept up with Star Ocean but I love some games in the series, so I'm glad you brought it up. I wouldn't mind it at all, the only thing is the part about the main character(s) and all that, which i dont know about.

 

[MajoraMan28]

I cannot put into words how amazing this game is shaping out to be

And yes, I'm still hopeful of Sephiroth coming later!

Did anyone here see that Twitter poll?