[SPOILER ALERT] - The Sevens Squares. - A Square-Enix general support threads.

[-Coco-]

I see. So it’s kinda like a multiverse? Where do the spin-offs fit in?

DQM 1 and 2 are in the same universe as 6 and the spin-offs are usually in a seperate universe. Caravan Hearts is a prequel to VII also DQ Builders takes place in the "bad ending" timeline of DQ1.

 

[Deleted member]

It's an anthology series like Final Fantasy, they're all in their own worlds as well, with a few exceptions. There's multiple spinoffs that have party members from various DQ games, mainly the Monsters games but there's a couple others.

DQM 1 and 2 are in the same universe as 6 and the spin-offs are usually in a seperate universe. Caravan Hearts is a prequel to VII also DQ Builders takes place in the "bad ending" timeline of DQ1.

Ah, I get it. Was curious because it sounds like it was one of the few series to indulge in a slightly more intricate plot from the beginning. Thanks!

 

[Sigran101]

Okay then, but what's exactly a determiner of "Brave" being Sora, Geno or Chrono? It's such a generic adjective, you could say that about many of the characters in the roster. We do know all DQ protagonists are called "Brave" or "Hero", so that's a point on Erdrick's favour over those guys.

You're thinking about it from our perspective. We don't know who the character is. We just know the code name. From our perspective, the most likely fit is the character that brave most describes. But imagine it from the developer's point of view. They know the character, and they're coming up with a codename to hide it from dataminers. Say the character is Sora. They can't call it "key" or something. If it's Geno they can't call it "star". It's too obvious. It's not a hint. It's a placeholder name to throw off dataminers. So a general word like brave or hero, which is relatively vague and fits many characters, is perfect because it doesn't point to anyone in particular.

 

[cmbsfm]

Of course this isn't concrete, but I tried to find any mention of both DQ and P5R on Reddit before Joker was revealed (using google search) and couldn't find anything.

For the record, I can find the noatesty post by searching "Incineroar" and "Piranha Plant" at the same time.

Assuming the 5chan guy was telling the truth, perhaps the original post was deleted? I know r/smashbros usually deletes any leak threads that show up.

 

[A.G.L.]

You're thinking about it from our perspective. We don't know who the character is. We just know the code name. From our perspective, the most likely fit is the character that brave most describes. But imagine it from the developer's point of view. They know the character, and they're coming up with a codename to hide it from dataminers. Say the character is Sora. They can't call it "key" or something. If it's Geno they can't call it "star". It's too obvious. It's not a hint. It's a placeholder name to throw off dataminers. So a general word like brave or hero, which is relatively vague and fits many characters, is perfect because it doesn't point to anyone in particular.

Agree, the code word itself is most likely from the developers perspective. Also brave is too broad of a term it could mean almost anyone. It could mean Yuri from the Tales series since there is a guild called Brave Vesperia, or it literally could be an adjective thats describing a character that is brave. Im not saying that this code word does not apply to Erdrick, only that we really should not give such high assurance that it is for sure describing him.

 

[Deleted member]

You're thinking about it from our perspective. We don't know who the character is. We just know the code name. From our perspective, the most likely fit is the character that brave most describes. But imagine it from the developer's point of view. They know the character, and they're coming up with a codename to hide it from dataminers. Say the character is Sora. They can't call it "key" or something. If it's Geno they can't call it "star". It's too obvious. It's not a hint. It's a placeholder name to throw off dataminers. So a general word like brave or hero, which is relatively vague and fits many characters, is perfect because it doesn't point to anyone in particular.

I would think that maybe the question here is why do they use codenames like "jack" or "brave" to hide it from the dataminers, when they could use instead generic names (like dlc01, dlc02, etc) or random codewords like dog breeds(Terrier, Labrador, Poodle, etc).

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

You're thinking about it from our perspective. We don't know who the character is. We just know the code name. From our perspective, the most likely fit is the character that brave most describes. But imagine it from the developer's point of view. They know the character, and they're coming up with a codename to hide it from dataminers. Say the character is Sora. They can't call it "key" or something. If it's Geno they can't call it "star". It's too obvious. It's not a hint. It's a placeholder name to throw off dataminers. So a general word like brave or hero, which is relatively vague and fits many characters, is perfect because it doesn't point to anyone in particular.

The idea behind it likely being Erdrick is the relation to the series associated with the codename.

Joker's codename is "Jack," which can tie into Persona 5 in multiple ways (Joker being the "jack of all trades" due to his Wildcard ability, referring to Jack Frost, the de-facto mascot of the SMT and Persona series, etc.)

Similarly "Brave" relates to Dragon Quest because it's the class name for Erdrick (Yuusha, used to refer to a Hero in Dragon Quest, translates to the word brave). It could also be Yuri Lowell since Brave Vesperia is the name of the guild Yuri founds in the game.

The codenames are tangentially related to the character, and can't be applied to absolutely anyone.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If they're going to go that route, then the name is obvious.

Dragon Warrior.

But what about for the Japanese version. Dragon Hero?

 

[REZERO]

I'm glad someone pointed how Brave doesn't necessarily mean Erdrick. The problem with "insiders" is we don't even know how they got the info besides being datamined. I know someone's gonna run in here and say that it was info from an employee but you expect me or other people in here to actually believe that over something tangible like datamining? If it was just datamining it means people have been speculating Erdrick will be in the game based on a single world and DQ's popularity in Japan.

 

[perfectchaos83]

I'm glad someone pointed how Brave doesn't necessarily mean Erdrick. The problem with "insiders" is we don't even know how they got the info besides being datamined. I know someone's gonna run in here and say that it was info from an employee but you expect me or other people in here to actually believe that over something tangible like datamining? If it was just datamining it means people have been speculating Erdrick will be in the game based on a single world and DQ's popularity in Japan.

Erdrick's been in the Rumor Mill since September.

 

[GoodGrief741]

You're thinking about it from our perspective. We don't know who the character is. We just know the code name. From our perspective, the most likely fit is the character that brave most describes. But imagine it from the developer's point of view. They know the character, and they're coming up with a codename to hide it from dataminers. Say the character is Sora. They can't call it "key" or something. If it's Geno they can't call it "star". It's too obvious. It's not a hint. It's a placeholder name to throw off dataminers. So a general word like brave or hero, which is relatively vague and fits many characters, is perfect because it doesn't point to anyone in particular.

The thing is, while Brave could theoretically apply to anyone, it still has to be a character for whom Brave means something beyond an adjective.

Like, Jack is a generic name, but if you were to pick a codename for Joker, Jack is a really good one (phonetically reminiscent, Joker is the Jack of all Trades, references Jack Frost).

If the character was somebody like Sora, they could go with something like Heart, or Lock, or Nobody (maybe that last one is too obvious).

So for Brave, we can and should narrow it down to characters for whom Brave is a meaningful term (like Bravely Default, Yuri Lowell, and of course, Dragon Quest).

 

[REZERO]

Erdrick's been in the Rumor Mill since September.

was he leaked or was he in the rumor mill?

There's a difference between the two. Also some people were playing ssbu long before release in a beta form right? That can be datamined.

 

[Idon]

was he leaked or was he in the rumor mill?

There's a difference between the two. Also some people were playing ssbu long before release in a beta form right? That can be datamined.

Both.
A bunch of leakers have been saying "Erdrick" since pre-release but it wasn't exactly founded on anything so people brush it off as a rumor.

 

[perfectchaos83]

was he leaked or was he in the rumor mill?

There's a difference between the two. Also some people were playing ssbu long before release in a beta form right? That can be datamined.

Erdrick was implied through LeakyPandy and the rumors only strengthened from Vergebens list which was publicized... in mid November if I recall. The game itself wasn't datamined until near the end of November and the information of which was kept hidden by the dataminers themselves until recently.

It goes without saying that the only reason Erdrick is the frontrunner is because of these rumors and leaks. Without them there'd be much more debate over the "Brave" codename.

 

[REZERO]

Erdrick was implied through LeakyPandy and the rumors only strengthened from Vergebens list which was publicized... in mid November if I recall. The game itself wasn't datamined until near the end of November and the information of which was kept hidden by the dataminers themselves until recently.

It goes without saying that the only reason Erdrick is the frontrunner is because of these rumors and leaks. Without them there'd be much more debate over the "Brave" codename.

And that list probably came from the datamines that were not publicized until light of recent events.

 

[perfectchaos83]

And that list probably came from the datamines that were not publicized until light of recent events.

Vergeben's list predates it being publicized by months. First time he mentioned it would have been in September or August. The game was in no position to be datamined before the last week of November.

 

[REZERO]

Vergeben's list predates it being publicized by months. First time he mentioned it would have been in September or August. The game was in no position to be datamined before the last week of November.

I am under the impression that some people got to play the game before the game released and September would be a great time for people to test it out with an NDA which would explain why people hid the fact that it was datamined because of legal issues.

But maybe I'm wrong.

EDIT: I've seen gameplay from certain players that actually goes before September, even as far as August.

 

[perfectchaos83]

I am under the impression that some people got to play the game before the game released and September would be a great time for people to test it out with an NDA which would explain why people hid the fact that it was datamined because of legal issues.

But maybe I'm wrong.

Anybody under an NDA testing the game would be under supervision from Nintendo which also means that nobody is datamining **** during that time. This also ignores that "Brave" was not in the base game. It was patched in. The Absolute earliest "brave" shows up is December 6th when the first patch dropped.

 

[REZERO]

Anybody under an NDA testing the game would be under supervision from Nintendo which also means that nobody is datamining **** during that time. This also ignores that "Brave" was not in the base game. It was patched in. The Absolute earliest "brave" shows up is December 6th when the first patch dropped.

Ok fair enough that it was patched in, unless it was patched out. Im still skeptical.

And thats not true, people can be given games early to play at home. I played Halo ODST online back when it was developers and people chosen to test it and there wasn't a single video or article on the internet about it because again people signed an NDA and Microsoft knew your gamertag.

I mean, someone's gotta test what online is like and what other way would you do it besides being practical and imitating what people would actually do with the game... Which is play it in the comfort of their home to test latency and if a lan adapter is needed or not. You know, stuff like that.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Ok fair enough that it was patched in, unless it was patched out. Im still skeptical.

And thats not true, people can be given games early to play at home. I played Halo ODST online back when it was developers and people chosen to test it and there wasn't a single video or article on the internet about it because again people signed an NDA and Microsoft knew your gamertag.

Halo and Smash are incomparable. Nintendo keeps a lid on everything smash because there's actually secrets being kept. Those videos you found were likely from events and not from private gaming sessions.

 

[REZERO]

Halo and Smash are incomparable. Nintendo keeps a lid on everything smash because there's actually secrets being kept. Those videos you found were likely from events and not from private gaming sessions.

I mean, yes... On the level that one is a fighting game and one is a shooter. Smash Ultimate is not some well-kept secret, there is actually a lot more info out there for Ultimate than there was for ODST before release. Of course the videos were from events but you actually think that people didn't get copies to play the game? The videos prove that there was a version that is playable. Like I said, they had to have tested how online works and to collect that kind of data they need people to do that from different locations to test matchmaking.

 

[perfectchaos83]

I mean, yes... On the level that one is a fighting game and one is a shooter. Smash Ultimate is not some well-kept secret, there is actually a lot more info out there for Ultimate than there was for ODST before release. Of course the videos were from events but you actually think that people didn't get copies to play the game? The videos prove that there was a version that is playable. Like I said, they had to have tested how online works and to collect that kind of data they need people to do that from different locations to test matchmaking.

I don't think anyone with any capacity to datamine the game had access to the game before the End of November. Especially not the files that had the Plant, Joker and Brave since those were buried deep and essentially encrypted.

 

[REZERO]

I don't think anyone with any capacity to datamine the game had access to the game before the End of November.

I think there's a fair chance that someone who has the capacity to datamine the game had access, in the sense that it was someone who claimed to be an insider because they played the game with an NDA and then datamined.

 

[perfectchaos83]

I think there's a fair chance that someone who has the capacity to datamine the game had access, in the sense that it was someone who claimed to be an insider because they played the game with an NDA and then datamined.

I edited my post. But nobody casually datamining the game would have found those files. You had to specifically know what they were because they were buried deep and essentially encrypted.

https://twitter.com/jam1garner/status/1080974132483899393

 

[Luigi The President]

You two having fun? Are ya winnin', son?

 

[Squirtle/Mario guy]

You two having fun? Are ya winnin', son?

yeah, for Geno, nothing, nil, dead as a Spirit, wish he was in but Edrick's a BIG hurdle now

 

[Luigi The President]

yeah, for Geno, nothing, nil, dead as a Spirit, wish he was in but Edrick's a BIG hurdle now

Go off but I was just commenting on the two people frequently talking back and forth

 

[ZenythSmash]

Assuming the 5chan guy was telling the truth, perhaps the original post was deleted? I know r/smashbros usually deletes any leak threads that show up.

Yeah
remember the plant leaker?
Noatesty gotten everything right but mods had to erase the OP to old.reddit.com, so it was hard to find the original leak

Anybody under an NDA testing the game would be under supervision from Nintendo which also means that nobody is datamining **** during that time. This also ignores that "Brave" was not in the base game. It was patched in. The Absolute earliest "brave" shows up is December 6th when the first patch dropped.

It was December 5th actually
https://pastebin.com/pEYGazDe

wasnt Brave in the "launch day" patch?
the one Noatesty rumored back in september?

Its still possible Brave actually existed much more earlier than that. (Add the fact Nintendo wanted Sakurai push Joker as first early for the TGAs, its also possible they switched Brave and Jack priorities around to implement.)

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

Honestly, I hope that "Brave" will get revealed soon if we are going to get a direct this month.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

I kind of hope that brave turns out to be joker somehow, just so everyone will start wondering just what the hell Jack is a codename for.

 

[Squirtle/Mario guy]

Go off but I was just commenting on the two people frequently talking back and forth

gee no need to go hostile

 

[Flyboy]

I kind of hope that brave turns out to be joker somehow, just so everyone will start wondering just what the hell Jack is a codename for.

God, my stomach would ice over just because my immediate association is Raiden from MGS who I would be down with except I know Konami would force Sakurai to use the new Rising redesign if Spirits are any indication and as the apparently only person on the planet who doesn't like that game or design he's like the only character I just straight up do not want in Smash. Also, bad memories associated with it.

In a swerve it's like, Big Boss, or Mighty Bomb Jack, or Jack from Tekken, or uh...Todd Snap as a reference to Jack-and-Beans? What other Jacks are there?

 

[Deleted member]

Only other Jacks that I could think off would be the Jack Brothers from SMT, maybe a videogame version of Jack the Ripper, Jack of Blades from Fable, worse Marston from RDR, Jackie Chan from Jackie Chan's Action Kung Fu, and Handsome Jack from Borderlands.

 

[Deleted member]

Only other Jacks that I could think off would be the Jack Brothers from SMT, maybe a videogame version of Jack the Ripper, Jack of Blades from Fable, worse Marston from RDR, Jackie Chan from Jackie Chan's Action Kung Fu, and Handsome Jack from Borderlands.

Raiden from Metal Gear, and... I cant think of any more.

 

[Deleted member]

maybe a videogame version of Jack the Ripper,

Assassin of Black

 

[Sigran101]

The idea behind it likely being Erdrick is the relation to the series associated with the codename.

Joker's codename is "Jack," which can tie into Persona 5 in multiple ways (Joker being the "jack of all trades" due to his Wildcard ability, referring to Jack Frost, the de-facto mascot of the SMT and Persona series, etc.)

Similarly "Brave" relates to Dragon Quest because it's the class name for Erdrick (Yuusha, used to refer to a Hero in Dragon Quest, translates to the word brave). It could also be Yuri Lowell since Brave Vesperia is the name of the guild Yuri founds in the game.

The codenames are tangentially related to the character, and can't be applied to absolutely anyone.

Jack could easily have lead people in many ways other than Joker. In fact, if Joker hadn't been revealed before the dataminers, people would have laughed at Joker supporters claiming that "Jack of all trades" tie in. The closest anyone would have gotten would be Jack Frost, which would have been wrong. And I'm sure there would have been a lot of other theories.

Again, it's about perspective. We see brave as fitting Erdrick best becuase we don't know who the character is. But Nintendo, trying to fool dataminers, and going with a generic word like "Hero" to be a vague placeholder for Sora or Lloyd or something isn't going to be like "But that would fit Erdrick better". They're not thinking about Erdrick. They're thinking about the chosen character. I think people are reading too much into this. It's vague for a reason.

I still think it's most likely Erdrick, but I think taking the datamine as proof and saying "now he's 100%" as some people have is jumping the gun. It could still very well be that Erdrick is leakbait. Which would make sense because Square is great at leak bait, so this is the outcome you'd expect. Everyone and their mother seems to know it's Erdrick, and that just makes me suspicious. The datamine doesn't prove anything.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Jack from Madworld.
And hey, he's been in a game with Bayonetta before.

 

[Flyboy]

Jack from Madworld.
And hey, he's been in a game with Bayonetta before.

Okay, that'd be fun.

Or Jack...as a reference to Travis Touchdown charging his beam katana.

 

[Deleted member]

I just got my last Christmas gifts.

Spoiler: The place where i got them should be called the “Square Enix house”

 

[NoOtherPersona]

Okay, that'd be fun.

Or Jack...as a reference to Travis Touchdown charging his beam katana.

Lmao that'd be crazy of Travis got in Suda really wants it lmao