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I thought "it was a joke" was a terrible answer at first, but then remembered it was a joke I've seen before, I just didn't recognize and thought you were continuing to play dumb.
I wasn't just attacking Hando, I was also defending something he saidl that he was being attacked for, which you read earlier ("like some people said taking one for the team can be a good thing") but you decided it wasn't worth considering here where you say you say what "all my posts have been dedicated to". Of course, attacking someone for one thing while defending them for another can just seem like you're just attacking them, but I don't want everyone jumping on Hando for everything he says just because he's playing like the only drunk person at a dinner party.
You need to look up "derailment" in the dictionary then. The definition is not "discussion Eor personally finds to be useless":
As I pointed out before nothing, I posted prevented any other discussion from taking place, so your claim that I was derailing anything was either an intentional distortion or an inadvertent misrepresentation. Are you implying that "someone intelligent becoming suspicious" of someone else isn't useful? Even if we had to rely on people also screwing up some other way (which may just happen later in the game) I don't see how additional cause for suspicion is anything other than helpful.
I'm not sure I understand your question. Are you asking if there is someone in the game that made me want to change my style so drastically and also if I deserve all this suspicion?
So why did you get all wound up over my joke, but not on Eors? Why am I a better candidate to lynch after answering all the questions and being one of the most active people in the game over Eor who has done quite the opposite.
Why of all people did you name Eor as the other person?
I meant, is it worth the suspicion to change your playstyle to what it is now to conceal whatever your role is? I know I don't know your play style well enough to guess your role from whatever your personal tells would be
Also, at one point you said you had no intention of doing what was best for town. Your playstyle has been all Pro-handorin, not pro-town. Admittedly, this is more of an independent marker than that of scum, but still, you're a better target than anyone else we have. If you can prove we have a better target, then do so, but you'd better do it fast.
I never said I had no intention of doing what is best for town. That's what people keep thinking I say because I'm so obviously scum from one joke I needed to say all this other junk. I stressed more on self preservation in a general sense, and I explained why that was important. And since you have spent most of the day wasting your time scrutinizing and twisting my every word, we don't have a more likely candidate. If you go back and look, 95% of the other discussion was either on another players joke someone got hurt by, whining that someone was inactive and tried to get them to do stuff, or repeating something other and over. In other words, I don't think we have garnered enough fruit from today to make a solid lynch candidate, but it will be good for later in the game.
Oops, forgot to answer this last post.
Buuuuuuuuuuut mooooommmmm he started itttttt.
This isnt a new trend.
In other words, "I'm only going to share my thoughts if I know I'm going to die, in which case I can safely point fingers at whomever I please without endangering them, since I'll flip scum/independent anyway and no one will take my parting thoughts seriously. But otherwise they might, so I'm not saying anything now."
First off I'd like to say that I agree with this sentiment, but it looks like town isn't going that way at the moment.
Here you follow a joke vote because you're genuinely concerned with what was said, but then just drop it all together.
While you do say you have close to even suspicion between the two, you still end up voting Handorin; which in my book, means you either thought he was a better target, or would respond better to a pressure vote.
Do you guys disagree with what I said about not piling on Handorin right now, or did you just not read it?
In the first bit, Handorin was being confusing on purpose, and later said that he was joking. I had voted him because he had been using a faulty line of reasoning to end with a vote. However, being that he had been joking (I thought otherwise, since everyone else was getting serious), I dropped my vote. (However, his maneuver did give me some suspicions.)
What do you mean by "likely"? Most likely to be scum (or non-town)? Most likely to end up getting lynched? Something else?
Most likely to be non-town.
Nobody else thought this was really funny? As the deadline nears, two players put their votes on the person they find most suspicious and vouch for his lynch. He is not about to be offed. Then three different players, all one after the other, accuse them of bandwagoning. You can bandwagon ideas and statements too, not just votes, but I normally don't see people bandwagon-accuse others of bandwagoning.
Who does "his" refer to? I think Handorin has rubbed people the wrong way, but I do not think that this or the things he has said make him independent or mafia. I will most likely not vote for him, and if he is lynched and flips town, I won't be astonished. I've commented earlier that I don't think we will learn anything from a Handorin lynch. I still think that this is true. Handorin has attracted attention to himself - the arguments against him accuse him of being awkward or self-aligned - if we lynch him, the information that we gain will most likely be information about Handorin, as this is what the lynch is about. No real connections to anyone else.
What? No. Your summary of what Handorin said was the first thing to ring suspicious. Handorin stated a very true and valid point: when someone is on the chopping block, they rarely get away with pointing fingers at anyone else. Doing so, even though it might end up being the right thing to do, is easily punishable and easy to call pseudo-scummy, because people can accuse them of dodging questions or focusing attention away from themselves for self-preservation. Handorin does not want to give everyone more rope - this is not scummy. Everyone should argue for their defense and fight for their life, because doing so helps your alignment whatever it is - town indy or scum. I expected Kirby King to understand this, but Kiki used what Handorin said and spun it in an extremely negative light in which Handorin is already going to "flip scum/independent anyway."
It is not a "good" thing to claim that there is more than one worthy lynch target. Town want to lynch more than one person, Mafia want to lynch more than one person... it is nice for town to remember, but its an easy stance for anyone to take.
So then that behavior (calling Handorin pseudo-scummy for posting his suspects) is scummy, and we should be suspicious of people who do that. And if Handorin does in fact flip town this behavior will look all the more suspicious in retrospect. I do believe this is what Circus was getting at when he pointed out (rightly) that self-preservation is not a requisite for being pro-town; we would gain more from Handorin being a productive member of the town and learning who thought that was scummy than we would from Handorin being intentionally difficult to read.
Of course I understand that Handorin doesn't want to make himself look more scummy. My argument is that by withholding his suspicions he is looking more scummy. I assume you remember when Iggy was lynched in TMNT mafia? At first it didn't seem like he would be lynched that day, and he decided he was suspicious of A and B (IIRC a townie and the bulletproof Shredder, the latter being someone who killed anyone who tried to NK him... in other words, someone mafia actually wanted to be targeted at night). Then as the votes started to gather on him, he suddenly added Marc to his list of suspects. And then by the time he was the presumptive lynch Marc was among his top suspects. (For non-BRoomers, Marc and Iggy were both mafia.)
That last point is fallacious and I'm pretty sure you know that. TMNT's mafia triator aside I'm not familiar with any setup where anyone but an independent knows they're independent (and since it's D1 there's no cult to worry about), and I'd never give someone town credit for lynching an independent. I assume most people wouldn't.
I'm honestly just not following you here. Are you accusing me of... a null tell? I'm disagreeing with those who are prematurely throwing their hands up into the air and saying "oh well, tomorrow's another Day, let's just lynch Handorin now". I didn't say it was "good" so I don't even know what you're suggesting. Regardless, this was part of my point: despite what others have claimed, Handorin is not the only possible lynch for D1, and he's certainly not the only person we can talk about. This seems in agreeance with your belief that Handorin is an easy target for mafia, and as I said, it wouldn't surprise me if there's scum in the Handorin bandwagon. That's why my vote's on Eor right now.
Getting false positives on new players is not a concern in this case--it could have been, and had I gotten a hit on a new player I would have taken it into account, but I didn't. I got a hit on Handorin (who is not a new player) and a hit on Iggy (who is also not a new player). I find it particularly bizarre that you of all people are objecting to this, since I've seen you in game after game ask people what they thought vigilantes should do, or what they thought about random lynching (on D1 and D2). Hell, Ricky gave off a scumtell in SLJ by being for a random lynch--what mafia teammate told him that was a good idea?
Wrong. If you were to just start wildly pointing fingers at people who are voting for you (or at the next person closest to lynch), then that would look scummy and might be glossed over. But if there are players who you legitimately suspect, call them out and explain why you're suspicious. In fact, you don't even have to point at people you find suspicious. Giving your thoughts on anyone in any way would be beneficial, even if it's "gosh, so-and-so seems really pro-town." If you were to be lynched and you were to flip town, then we would at least have that to work with. As it stands, you're just letting us fry.
If you're referring to what I think you're referring to, I merely asked a simple question ("Why did you only point out me and Kiki?"). And the only reason I even asked it is because your actions were hinting at self-preservation again. Lots of people had yet to have the spotlight shown on them, but you pointed out Kiki and I specifically. Of all the players who had been staying out of the spotlight, we were the only ones who had expressed suspicion of you. It looked like a sort of indirect OMGUS.
Handorin can only give us one thing—his thoughts. Those thoughts can only become rope if other players make it so (which, in itself, would give us information). I realize Hando (probably) doesn't want to die, but I don't see why that should stop him from expressing his opinions. The best thing townie Hando can do is try and steer the town in the direction he thinks we need to go. Obviously that would mean not letting himself get lynched, but it would also mean directing the town toward scummier prey. By not doing so, I can only infer that Hando refuses to defend himself and wants to be lynched or he cannot defend himself and is hoping the Day will end with too few votes to result in a lynch at all.
Has **** not gotten serious yet?
It is easy for mafia to back a lynch like this because Handorin has made it easy. Handorin knew what he was doing when he started playing this way. He wanted to be hard to read and now he is, so the town can't trust him and the mafia is free to pounce. That's if he's town (which I clearly find less likely than you do). If Handorin is town and he's playing to win then he really should have started acting like it by now, regardless of whatever strategy he had going into this game.
