Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread

[Steeler]

ummm actually i'll play right now.

sonic's faster than a hydroplane but that doesn't mean he won't get hit by it. hydroplanes are most effective when the opponent is just about to land on the ground. at that point, running away isn't very feasible.

that's just one example, but sonic's run speed does not equal "hydroplane will never hit".

 

[~TBS~]

hydroplane is stopped completely by spindashes. while you are turning around trying to set up your sliding attacks, spindashes stop it completely. I am saying this from experience.

 

[Steeler]

you don't have to turn around to hydroplane.

 

[~TBS~]

thats true, but still, spindash beats it. okay here is an example.
you try to hydroplane without turning.
you are sliding over there to catch me with your attack. I spindash and either hit you or clang with your attack.

 

[Napilopez]

ummm actually i'll play right now.

sonic's faster than a hydroplane but that doesn't mean he won't get hit by it. hydroplanes are most effective when the opponent is just about to land on the ground. at that point, running away isn't very feasible.

that's just one example, but sonic's run speed does not equal "hydroplane will never hit".

This is most definitely true. My post, however, was directed at Itburns since he said Sonic can't outrun a hyrdroplane, which Im pretty sure he can at least avoid by running. if he's in the air though its different.

 

[Kinzer]

Beast, just because Spring puts us in the air doesn't mean Sonic becomes helpless, it just means it becomes priority one to get back to the ground the quickest/safest way possible.

Dair has decent priority when the hitbox comes out, which also gets us to the ground ASAP, be it canceled or not. In this case it might be better to go with the laggy Dair to make sure that if Squirtle tries to intercept you that Squirtle gets popped into the air, watehr he tries to get you in the air or ground camp you.

Everything else is probably situational at most, Squirtle's twirly attack (lol I don't know which movement it is in the air) lasts for a pretty long time, and has decent range on it, so recovering from a Spring I think Sonic can only hope to outprioritize with it a Dair, everything else might only trade hits with it at best. Oh and then Squirtle can just charge up like an USmash to beat that out... however who is to say Sonic won't just take another path back to the ground, we won't always Dair back.

Also I need to remind you guys that no matter how well Squirtle can string attacks together, Spring will get him out of most attacks if not all, it won't matter if Squirtle is fatigued or not, it just means Sonic doesn't have to worry about getting killed unless he seriously messes up/PT moves on to Ivysaur.

I really need to fight a Squirtle specialist, just to get a better view of this.

 

[SuSa]

@Kinzer

Squirtle's my #1 of my PT. I sort of play them in order, so I can help you on that a little bit online tomorrow =p

Squirtle: Specialty
Ivysaur: Good
Charizard: Get you offstage so I can down-B safely D:...


PS Peoples:

I played Sonic today (he's part of me maining Random), thought I'd totally get owned by my friend, and pulled some weirs strats from where the sun don't shine, and 3 stocked him. I like Sonic now and will be lurking and randomly posting when the time is right in these boards.

:mewtwo:

 

[Kinzer]

Any reason you can't do it now that we both are here?

 

[SuSa]

I only have WiFi hours from 3-5pm PMT.

Limited because I got grounded for running away.

:mewtwo:

 

[thecatinthehat]

I played Sonic today (he's part of me maining Random), thought I'd totally get owned by my friend, and pulled some weirs strats from where the sun don't shine, and 3 stocked him. I like Sonic now and will be lurking and randomly posting when the time is right in these boards.

:mewtwo:

This is interesting.

He even has a pokeyman.

I like this one, guys.

Steakling status might be hidden within this one.

Welcome.

 

[SuSa]

This is interesting.

He even has a pokeyman.

I like this one, guys.

Steakling status might be hidden within this one.

Welcome.

If I do become a Sonic main... I have but one question.........

Why Haunter? (edited so no disrespect :D)

Thank you for the welcome.


About my pokeyman:
Mewtwo is the symbol of epicness.
Maining Random is epic.
Henceforth my signature and my pokeyman.

:mewtwo:


EDIT:

So I don't get yelled at by mods..... rofl

Sonic vs Squirtle is actually pretty hard for Squirtle.... not 'hard hard' but 'hard'.

That, or my lacking knowledge of facing a Sonic in general. (been watching tons, and tons of vids... all I see is a blue thing spinning and it all happens so fast... D: is he doing side-B, charging a dsmash? charging a usmash? doing an nair or down-B? **** you Sonic! (but I love you for that same reason. )

 

[thecatinthehat]

lol Haunter.

Boxob's fave pokemon, second to Scyther. But they dont have an icon for Scyther.

Boxob get's banned constantly. Haunter is pretty much the mark of Boxob.

When his last account got permabanned, we steaklings represented him through the excessive use of Haunter.

After he made his alternate account, Haunter stuck with us, and now it's used to represent steakling status.

Only those with permission from Boxob can use Haunter in their posts. (I can gives permission too, but I only do so on special occasions).

..............................................................................................................................


Now to make this relevant so I dont get socked by the mods,

I need to play some Squirtles asap.

I pretty much have zero experience on the matchup D:

 

[da K.I.D.]

against really short characters, f-tilt is really good, it out ranges and outprioritises them.
air and ground

 

[Bestiarius]

Kinzer, I know that doesn't mean that he's helpless, it just means that he's in Squirtle's area. Squirtle is in his element in the air, so, yeah getting grounded is priority 1, like you said. This is something I need to know: doesn't Sonic's dair have a hitbox just beneath him, at the tip of his foot? If so, just about any of Squirtle's aerials could hit him out of it. Btw, his "twirly" thing is dair. The main problem with Sonic's dair is just what you said: it's laggy. If Squirtle is anywhere close, he can get off a good grab at least, and if you're in the 150% range, maybe 130 or so, a d-throw is death, at least I think it is on Battlefield. But, like I said, it's a pretty close match, and besides, matchups don't really matter all that much until they get in the 65-45 range. Nobody will play perfectly, and people have different styles. There are too many variables to say "Sonic will definitely win" or "Squirtle will definitely win."

 

[Browny]

gimme a minute... im updating the hitbox thread on dair next youll be able to see then.

anywdair dair has fail priority so i dont think its a problem lol

 

[Kinzer]

What do you mean fail priority, I cut through Olimar's Pikmin with Dair.

It's awesome.



(I'll edit this post because some1 responded to me)

Edit: Nevermind, I still remain vigilant that Dair rocks.

 

[SuSa]

What do you mean fail priority, I cut through Olimar's Pikmin with Dair.

It's awesome.



(I'll edit this post because some1 responded to me)

Edit: Nevermind, I still remain vigilant that Dair rocks.

Don't let Olimar's Pikmin fool you, they have 0 Priority.

If you can hit a Pikmin with a hitbox, they kind of just 'slip by' eachother, the move cancels out the pikmin.

When you hit Olimar instead of a Pikmin, he takes damage.

When he hits you with a Pikmin, and not your hitbox for a move (but rather, your hurtbox), you take damage.


Same goes for Olimar's smashes, not just aerials.

Pikmin = NO Priority. It's fake.

:mewtwo:

 

[Napilopez]

Kinzer, I know that doesn't mean that he's helpless, it just means that he's in Squirtle's area. Squirtle is in his element in the air, so, yeah getting grounded is priority 1, like you said. This is something I need to know: doesn't Sonic's dair have a hitbox just beneath him, at the tip of his foot? If so, just about any of Squirtle's aerials could hit him out of it. Btw, his "twirly" thing is dair. The main problem with Sonic's dair is just what you said: it's laggy. If Squirtle is anywhere close, he can get off a good grab at least, and if you're in the 150% range, maybe 130 or so, a d-throw is death, at least I think it is on Battlefield. But, like I said, it's a pretty close match, and besides, matchups don't really matter all that much until they get in the 65-45 range. Nobody will play perfectly, and people have different styles. There are too many variables to say "Sonic will definitely win" or "Squirtle will definitely win."

Sonic has a hitbox pretty much around his body or at least the lower half of his body during the dair. Its not particularly disjointed though, and thats the main thing when it comes to aerial "priority".

But I think you're looking at the details too strongly. Spring launches Sonic very far very quickly, and dair gets him down very quickly. When kinzer said "laggy" I believe he meant it might be better to use the laggy landing version, as dair CAN be autocancelled. Sonic isn't going to have too much trouble getting back on the ground if he just springs away. Many Sonics, including myself, I find try to take on opponents in the air when they could just spring away.

I do think though that Squirtle Sonic is about even, perhaps slightly for squirtle.

 

[Tenki]

Sonic's non-autocancelled D-air is laggy.

Squirtle's SH D-air is committed and has a semi laggy (hint: offline grabbable) landing.

Those facts are probably equally important in this matchup.

 

[Kinzer]

Rghtio Nape, as using the laggy Dair is one way to assure the hitbox stays until you hit the ground, which might help it outpriotizing most of whatever Squirtle might have to use, or at least trade hits.

 

[Jim Morrison]

IIRC, Squirtle has super armor on F-smash, much like Wario.

 

[Browny]

I think so too. I had about 12 or so consecutive matches today against one of Aus' top PT players. Sure it was wifi but meh i got nothing else to work with. My brother does secondary PT but his PT isnt as good

anyway...

I still believe what i said before. Squirtle is a pain to fight but sonic will deal more damage per hit, and as long as you avoid the upsmash you should be living to about 140% at least while he dies < 110. Id say hes probably the easiet to KO outright since with proper prediction you can punish his lack of range easily enough. Bair might be your safest option but a fresh fsmash is probably the best way since youll need to to knock him out of the air alot with b-air. While squirtle can pressure, his damage output just isnt enough. its all good and well landing 5 consecutive hits but when they only do about 35% total its just not enough. 45:55 at worst

Ivysaur is still lol. Defensive wall is hard to get through, but once you do its just ****. Many of ivys spacing moves like bair, ftilt, jab combo can actually be punished with a DA easily enough. Spam u-air and gimp like mad. Even if you dont get a low % KO (which you should at least half the times you face ivy) when it comes to landing ko moves on each other, Sonic should have an easier time landing one on ivy. His fsmash is quite punishable on block, dsmash doesnt kill, dash attack is too slow and all his other KO moves require you to be above ivysaur. If you're ever above ivysaur trying to attack through it, you're doing it wrong. 60:40 at best

Charizard... is rocksmash, grabs and flamethrower. Avoid them as best as you can and win. shield-cancelled side b's work well enough and spinshot is a decently safe approach is you predict a flamethrower or rocksmash which you can easily bair through. Get him in the air and life is much easier. Not much to say but dont get rocksmashed lol. 50:50 ?

I think charizard is the hardest to actually land a KO move on, not even considering his weight. But this is where the whole play-gay possibilites start. keep an eye on the timer and if you can stall enough t get charizard fatigued, go for it. Charizard also has a hard time landing a killer on sonic (imo ivysaur fsmash is the best ko move of all 3, squirtle dthrow close second) so if you can force him to switch thats sure to help.

tcranter if you read this, Spring spam ftw

 

[Toby.]

This discussion is funny ^_^

I'm going to update this post with more detailed thoughts after christmas. I've played against DJBrowny and Greenstreet and use sonic as my secondary. I think I have an ok feel of the matchup

DJ - I think it would be useful if we focussed on charizard and ivysaur for future games. Squirtle is pretty straight forward in this matchup imo.

For charizard I'd like to see how nair -> jab does vs sonic's various approaches. I'd also like to see if many of sonics options are cancelled out by 'zard's dtilt. It's difficult to say how effective charizard is because its so hard to play a defensive, reaction based game online, but knowing the general usefulness of tactics like that will be handy.

Oh and spring for the win, flamethrower for the lose. You also bair'd me sooo many times out of that :D

I also want to see what moves ivysaur can use out of sonics uair. I'd like to see if that uair kill with ivysaur directly after your uair can be replicated at decent percentages. I think ivysaur needs to live on dtilt, bair, nair and ftilt in this matchup. Maybe not even ftilt, considering sonic's speed.

'tis all very interesting

 

[Jim Morrison]

LMAO, Wollongong? What a stupid name If you weren't so far away I would brawl you on Wifi

 

[Kinzer]

Rawr DJ we're pretty much just talking about Squirtle for now... but I think that by this point, we're pretty much done with Squirtle.

When I wake up, I'm going to add Ivysaur to the post. You may continue to discuss Squirtle before then and post Ivysaur if you wish.

 

[Toby.]

Squirtle vs sonic is pretty meh. It's probably either 55:45 squirtles way or 50:50. I'm leaning towards the former. He still doesn't have any sort of win button vs sonic, its just a combination of low lag, autocancelling sex kick aerials (to make swatting sonic's dair from behind easier), a faster jab, reliable ftilt, etc. Even considering dthrow, none of these are insurmountable from sonic's position, they just force you to play a delicate spacing game.

Ftilt and dtilt seem pretty useful for sonic here. Also, dying at 110% to sonic's fsmash makes me cry

Oh and for the record, squirtles fsmash is almost useless here regardless of super armour. It is waaaaay too slow to be anywhere near safe vs sonic, unless they do something silly like spring-> dair spam.

It will be more interesting when the discussion gets to ivysaur and charizard.

 

[Browny]

LMAO, Wollongong? What a stupid name If you weren't so far away I would brawl you on Wifi

If you think thats bad, You'll love Oodnadatta, Ulladulla and Wagga-Wagga

lulz

 

[Toby.]

Don't forget Rotterdam.

If it bothers you I'll be moving to sydney soon anyway, so it won't say wollongong for long

 

[Kinzer]

Rawr, isn't that 1 frame jab universal? I know it's something to keep in mind, but it's not like it will do anything drastic really...

 

[Jim Morrison]

The jab makes me cry. It's so freaking terrifying. It's like Ike's jab, but not as overpower. It still does about 12%. It doesn't drain stamina. So yea, jab IS drastic. If he had a jab like Sonic, I would say 55:45 Sonic.

 

[Steeler]

jab is squirtle's best move. squirt can jab cancel it into a grab for a dthrow, btw.

i should be up for some matches today or tomorrow.

 

[Jim Morrison]

When? I wanna play you and get my *** handed

 

[da K.I.D.]

dont mess with steeler, that guy is a beast...

kinzer or whoever is doing the write ups, talk to xivii about editting the front page with everything we have so far, if you havent already.

p.s. ike jab is stupid...

but about squirtles jab, is it like ZSS's where you can attack through it in the middle of it?

 

[Steeler]

i think it's possible to attack through it if, for example, squirtle hesitates on the third jab. i've rarely ever had it interrupted at max speed, but i may be wrong.

also the jab can kill people lol.

 

[Jim Morrison]

A spring could get Sonic out. But really, I wanna play you soon. In how long (not when, I'm not in your time-zone) can you play?

 

[Steeler]

idk, i've been having problems with my usb wifi connector. i'll try to get it functioning but i may have to wait until i get my wireless router tomorrow...IF i get a router for xmas.

 

[Jim Morrison]

noooooooooooooo, tomorrow is Christmas. I can't play then, and half of the day after tomorrow I can't either. :/

 

[Chis]

Steeler, could I fight you also? D:

Edit: Never mind...

 

[Steeler]

lol guys i'm not that good, especially on wifi.

 

[Jim Morrison]

1. You're good.

2. Wifi sucks

3. I suck.