Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread

[RenegadeRaven]

Also, do all Sonic mains have the same avvy now? jw

Nope . =P

 

[Jim Morrison]

We're not too slow.

Dedede has an advantage. 60:40 Dedede seems right, 55:45 at the absolute minimum, 70:30 in a perfect world.

I agree on this, but no 70:30, instead it's 65:35, Sonic doesn't suck THAT bad.

I only have a little experience against my friend's Sonic and he plays it pretty gay. He pretty much just waits off on the complete opposite side of the stage and waits for me to do something and then runs in and punishes. I doubt this is what all Sonics do, but when he doesn't do this I beat him pretty soundly.

It's one of the ways Sonic can play. Another choice would be running for an offensive

It's also annoying how hard it is to gimp Sonic. He's too hard to WoP to death so once I get off the stage I can pretty much only ledgecamp bairs or try a Dededecide. I really like Inhale in this matchup and use it quite often.

You shouldn't attempt to gimp Sonic away from the ledge. Instead, stay on the ledge and place you B-airs in his face. If Sonic springs over you to the stage, get on the stage, run, RAR B-air (or grab if you got uber-timing). Yes, I like Inhale in this matchup the. The few times I played D3 vs Sonic, Inhale was doubled in use against others. Mainly when Sonic comes at you in SDR or some other (semi-)commited attack.

Also, do all Sonic mains have the same avvy now? jw

Only the cool ones

On a side-note. Dedede B-air beats Sonics D-air. That is some crazy hitbox :O

 

[Tenki]

I only have a little experience against my friend's Sonic and he plays it pretty gay. He pretty much just waits off on the complete opposite side of the stage and waits for me to do something and then runs in and punishes. I doubt this is what all Sonics do, but when he doesn't do this I beat him pretty soundly. It's also annoying how hard it is to gimp Sonic. He's too hard to WoP to death so once I get off the stage I can pretty much only ledgecamp bairs or try a Dededecide. I really like Inhale in this matchup and use it quite often.

Also, do all Sonic mains have the same avvy now? jw

whoa whoa. Why camp so far away? Nothing (practical) is punishable or baitable from that far. He needs to learn how to camp just outside your attack range, because that's where pressure games are and like, the amount of moves you can punish from that close rises by alot :l

 

[thecatinthehat]

Wall of text

d-tilt moar.

 

[Gates]

You shouldn't attempt to gimp Sonic away from the ledge. Instead, stay on the ledge and place you B-airs in his face. If Sonic springs over you to the stage, get on the stage, run, RAR B-air (or grab if you got uber-timing).

Huh, that's a good tip. Thanks.

d-tilt moar.

Oh I do. All the time. Dtilt, ftilt, bair, inhale, and grab are probably the ones I use the most in this matchup.

 

[thecatinthehat]

uh... I was kidding.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Huh, that's a good tip. Thanks.

Oh I do. All the time. Dtilt, ftilt, bair, inhale, and grab are probably the ones I use the most in this matchup.

Don't use inhale, it is not a good weapon to use throughout the matchup. Its okay to toss out every once in awhile but don't expect Sonic to get caught in it. For one the range required for onic to be sucked in it slightly outside of DDD's mouth.
Sonic can cancel any of his moves before he reaches that point and punish yu afterwards s just use it sparingly.

Ftilt, bair and your grabs are your beast weapons. bairs to fend off aerial approaches, grabs for damage dealing and the like.
Ftilt is good for harassment.

Do not use your waddledees unless you are absolutely sure you can get away with it.
you should see ryko's DDD face off against a Sonic.
He pretty much limits himself to using ftilt, bair and grabs because Sonic can punish so much of DDD's abilities.

As said earlier don't bother edge guarding, stay on the ledge and use your Ftilt to slow him down a bit without having risk to yourself.

We can play if you want.

oh and Naruto sage mode is broken. WTF @ Clones using rasengan.

 

[Gates]

uh... I was kidding.

I wasn't. I seriously use dtilt all the time against Sonic, mostly to break them out of a dash or spindash.

Don't use inhale, it is not a good weapon to use throughout the matchup. Its okay to toss out every once in awhile but don't expect Sonic to get caught in it. For one the range required for onic to be sucked in it slightly outside of DDD's mouth.
Sonic can cancel any of his moves before he reaches that point and punish yu afterwards s just use it sparingly.

Yeah obviously. I can only pull off an inhale on any character once or twice a stock at most.

We can play if you want.

Insert wifi johns here.

And wow, you guys are really nice here. This is probably the only matchup thread on Smashboards where people will give advice about the matchups to their opponents lol.

Spoiler

Or do you guys think I'm a scrub? =_=

 

[Napilopez]

Heh, you shudda seen us a couple of months ago.

We're just, in general, pretty educated about other chars and don't like to hear the excuse "Oh well I lost cuz I dint kno teh ketchup matchup" =P

I agree with Tenki, theres no reason for Sonic to be so far. Sonic does well just sllightly outside his opponents range, where its easiest to punish without being punished. The point is we wanna be able to run in and do something either before an attack comes out, or to punish endlag. Midrange is also where we wend to have good fakeout and mind tricksies.

Anyways, as has been said, inhale is uber punishable in most cases by any half decent Sonic.

I'm curious as to how a well spaced Sonic Bair will fare against a well spaced D3 one. Not that it matters so much, D3s is quicker. Using Bairs alot is good for both sides of the matchup =P

 

[ShadowLink84]

Yeah obviously. I can only pull off an inhale on any character once or twice a stock at most.

Ah okay my misunderstanding.

Insert wifi johns here.

Pshaw you just worried about losing j/k

And wow, you guys are really nice here. This is probably the only matchup thread on Smashboards where people will give advice about the matchups to their opponents lol.

Spoiler

Or do you guys think I'm a scrub? =_=

Spoiler

yes we think you are a scrub j/l/spoiler]
Nah just messing.
The main reason is because its best for both sides to be educated on the matchup, to have as accurate a ratio as possible and ensure as much objectivity as possible.

 

[MalcolmM]

55:45 DeeDeeDeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

 

[Jim Morrison]

Lulz, I won't take your number into account if you don't post reason as to why it would his advantage.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Lulz, I won't take your number into account if you don't post reason as to why it would his advantage.

He already did.

 

[Jim Morrison]

ermm... Where?

Went 5 10 pages back, he just keeps saying 55:45 deedeeeedeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

 

[ROOOOY!]

You need to use utilts moar. Optimal killing move IMO, or at least in situations where the Sonic is:

- Being a spotdodge *****
- Spring => dair spamming​

I'm suprised no one's really talked about Sonic approaching in this match-up. I generally feel safest with hyphen smash, invincibility frames taking you through an Inhale and attacking him. Inhale itself is pretty punishable if you've got a feinty playstyle.

 

[Kinzer]

Wouldn't that be because it's better to play campier against D3, Roy?

Though not campy like gates' friend campy, but the smart kind of playing Gay.

 

[Jim Morrison]

I'd say Hyphen Smash is fairly safed, unless when shielded (lol shieldgrab). Perhaps DACUS to go trough his shield with the minor boost? Also dash attacking trough him (not the weak, but the strong first hit) seems epic.

BTW, do NOT Spring > D-air in this matchup when not necassery. Dedede's B-air > Sonic's D-air coming from above. Broken hitbox anyone O_o?

 

[JayBee]

55:45 DeeDeeDeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

thank you. the thuth is awesome.

Lulz, I won't take your number into account if you don't post reason as to why it would his advantage.

or you can just look at what i said and insert in into his post, hell probably say something simliar.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Fine, I'll take his numbers cause he's MalcolmM =.=.

 

[Kinzer]

Mindgames, son.

55:45, but I still hate fighting against D3.

 

[JayBee]

smart man...

 

[ROOOOY!]

Kojin, whack the outline thingy for Jigglypuff in your post? New page y'see, and it looks like we're finished on Dedede.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Not even close, I want this page full of numbers/discussion. I'm leaning forward to 60:40 Dedede, but I can't depend on my own numbers . We need Dedede input and MOAR NUMBERS.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Okay, I did my last attempt at getting Dedede input on their boards I want them to do this toooooo.

 

[Kinzer]

Gf, why don't you just edit your last post if nobody else had made one before?

Ah whatever, if anymore D3 players come in here and make something ludicrous, we're gonna go back to our old ways and flame like nobody's business. As long as they're being reasonable, it can't be too bad.

 

[Jim Morrison]

I want to get infracted.

In all seriousness, I could've done that, but no one reads a thread without a bold, white title meaning NEW POST = IMPORTANT READ, DO IT
Kinzer, that'll only happen when D3 players actually dare come to Sonic boards :*(

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

HAY! Can D3 use his suck to pick you out of your Spring? It works as a grab so as long as he walks over to the edge and drops you isn't that like a free kill?

 

[Jim Morrison]

Yes, it definitly works, I did it on Chis today. I'm not quite sure if he gets his Spring back, but if you Suck him out of up-B, he definitly loses second jump

 

[Jim Morrison]

-.-
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6415151&postcount=9

Dedede is wrapped up.

 

[JayBee]

i still think its 55:45 D3. He was my first main before sonic, and I play him well enough imo

 

[Tenki]

Gf2tw:
ohmahgoodness that guy is a total ****** genius.
---------
Anyway, what the hell, since when is U-smash a safe approach, for anyone?

>__>

Also, Dedede can suck out of spring, but it won't kill if you escape unless Dedede goes off-stage and you escape that way. Otherwise, you escape above (?) Dedede, which will probably set you up for a U-tilt.

And, if Dedede mistimes it, you can footstool his U-tilt's startup time.

 

[Chis]

Yes, it definitly works, I did it on Chis today. I'm not quite sure if he gets his Spring back, but if you Suck him out of up-B, he definitly loses second jump

When was this?

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

When was this?

Yes, it definitly works, I did it on Chis today. I'm not quite sure if he gets his Spring back, but if you Suck him out of up-B, he definitly loses second jump

lol

 

[Chis]

No, I meant I don't remember that happening today.

 

[Kinzer]

I'm stealing posts for Jigglypwn.

 

[Kinzer]

You're free to invite the Jiggz over now, or give us uyour 2 cents first.

Either way, I'll edit this post so it has the Jiggles bit.

Please discuss away!

(Go ahead and infract me, I accept that this is breaking the law(l))

Jigglypuff

Introduction: Jigglypuff, the lightest character in the game, is our 34th matchup to be discussed... sadly, Jigglypuff is also somewhere this behind on the silly tier list as of January 5th. You play Sonic though, and as a competant player, you should know just as well as anybody else underestimating the tiers will only get you killed. Jigglypuff is a returning character from Melee, and while unfortunately retaining her old weaknesses, lost what made her a more decent smash character. This doesn't not mean that she can't pose a threat to Sonic though, outclassing you in the air. Where you both excel and lack in, the other can really take advantage of... just how far will these strengths over Jigglypuff get us is what you're here to find out, correct? Without further adu, let's get started on examining the very essense that is a "glass cannon" in Brawl.

Behaviour: Jigglypuff's ground game is almost non-existant, the only time sh- Oh by the way for simplicity purposes, I'm going to refer Jigglypuff as a female. Anyway Jigglypuff will never be on the ground unless it's to refresh her jumps, or to get a laggy smash/mediocre grab game going. Jigglypuff is 95% aerial, seeing as how it's her method of getting damage/kills/Wall of Pains in, and the like. Her B moves are either a great tool to fight Sonic, or will hardly even be used ONCE. When recovering be sure to never get predictable, as Jigglypuff will always chase you, but you can only take in so much pain before you will be outlasted in the air, which let me tell you now Sonic prefers to bee grounded in here for as lacking as it normally is.

Commonly Used Moves: You should be expecting Jigglypuff to use mostly whatever is she can in the air, but I'll just put Common moves as things she will have to use seeing as how her moveset is really limited. In descending order, Jiggly should be using these moves from greatest to least:

Pound
Bair/Fair
Dair
Nair/Uair
DACUS (Beware :O)
Dash attack
Grab into any throw Jiggly prefers
Forward/Up Smash
Rest
Rollout (this is all too easy for a Sonic to punish... again a good Jings will not be using this unless you messed up with Spring)
Sing (don't even expect it unlesst he Jiggly doesn't know the matchup between Sonic to their fullest)



How to Win: Alright, so you know what Jiggly can do, now you want to know how to get around all that and take teh victory. Some have argued that Sonic and jiggly will both be killing each other at the same %... some say Sonic will be dying earlier... I'm not going to call out names, but it can go either way let's say. In favor of or not, nobody can deny that Jigglypuff is afterall the lightest character in the game... you're Up-Smash could actually become a killing move is how bad it is. Don't rely on that though, but you really should be using Up-Smash a lot. Sonic wants to be on the ground a lot for this matchup, because Jigglypuff is just too fast and too mobile in the air for Sonic to make chase in her game. Use your ground speed to pursuit, and and use any attack accordingly, meaning rising Fairs/Bairs//Uairs/UTilts to hit Jigglypuff. Now for the more situational attacks you could use Hyphen Up-Smashes/rising Nairs/Forward Smashes angled up/Spring projectiles/Dairs/ and if you can, grabs. Pound has a very huge hitbox, and even after it's been used, will still have a hitbox, this alone will make you want to be grounded... Counter if she Whiffs it, if you use your ground speed to do it, you can! Spamming Uairs can't go wrong, since the attack is disjointed and will at worst only trade hits no thanks to Jigglypuffs aerial speed... Don't ever get predictable on the ground though, change it up, or Jigglypuff can just Rest you for being careless... if they use this against you, they either have inhuman SDI capabilities or YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG! Anyway UTilt is fine for it's disjointedness and unless a Jigglypuff is expecting this, her airspeed should be fast enough to make her get caught at the tip of the attack's hitbox(es). Bair is your second option for range and is probably going to be your most used spacer/kill move... try to use Uairs/Fairs so that this move won't get decayed so bad so Jiggly will actually die seeing as how landing Forward Smashs are bleh... Oh I guess UTilts are okay for killnig Jiggly too! Sorry >.> Alright then... should you happen to grabs Jiggs, remember that U-Throw is good if you can't kill her at about low-mid-hundreds %age range. If they use Rollout, figure it out how you want to punish it, there's only so many ways to do it that I'm not going to bother mentioning it... just don't try to attack it head-on, or you might get humiliatingly K.O.ed. Bair is her WoP, Fair is her kill move if she hasn't decayed it, so don't be afraid to use your Spring to get out of her two WoP aerials. Uair is just a juggle... Spring... nuff said. Nair is her GTFO like Rest, but not as powerful or as punishable. If she Sings, again figure it out... just don't get next to her on the ground or you'll fall asleep. Smash attacks... laggy and powerful, but if whiffed are easy for you to punish... very easy indeed.

Recommended Stages: Your call, Jiggly is light, so if you want to take advantage of it, go to Halberd Corneria... want to live longer but still kill her moreorless at the same %ages? I suggest you go to FD or Delfino Plaza. Anywhere but Japes and you should be okay... not even because I hate that stage, but others have even confirmed Jigglypuff does well o this stage.

Matchup Summary: Some say it's 45:55 Jigglypuffs favor... others say it's a solid 6:4 Sonic's advantage... to come to an agreement, just assume Sonic will have an easier time, and the matchup is neutral or 55:45 slightly in Sonic's favor... please?

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Okay, so here's my two cents.

Jigglypuff, will NOT get gimped, don't even bother trying to go for it, just do with your amazing offstage combat and rack up damage. Jigglypuff is very light, so our killnig problems are solved right there. For once, we outrange somebody in most anyway possible.... Although if Sonic had Pound instead of a duplicate Side-B move, that would be so sexy. Beware the rest and occasional smash attacks... they are powerful.

CP Jiggles wherever, but I would personally recommand stages with low blastzones to take further advantage of his/her/it/potato's lightweight... Corneria/Halberd seem like the optimal choice.

Stay grounded, Jigglypuff is too fast in the air to pursuit with that method. Work from there.

I would say Sonic has a 6:4 solid advantage on Jigglypuff, but I want to see other peoples' opinions on this.

 

[Browny]

jiggs side b is broken

 

[aeghrur]

U-smash should eat jiggs aerials, but watch for her baits.
Also, she's very good at weaving and her recovery is amazing.
Her air game is also gooooooood, so watch out on that. Although, I do believe our U-air from below is just as amazing.
She's very light though, so it's easier to kill her outright, but if you don't, her amazing recovery will make sure she survives. God, lol. I hear she's lighter vertically though, so, um, U-throw+u-air.
Or just U-air.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

She's good at weaving though. I wouldn't waste time trying to Uthrow Uair. Her aerial mobility is more than enough to easily get her out of the way. At any percents it WOULD combo it probably wouldn't kill her. Would need to test that though.

 

[thecatinthehat]

F-throw auto kill.

lol