Terios the Hedgehog
Smash Hero
I like just SideBing into Olimar. It's surprisingly effective. Spinshot CAN work but there's enough time for him to get ready. It's fun to spinshot a few times and then just roll one of them.
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Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread
- Thread starter Chis
- Start date
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
why do you know these things, and where the hell were you all day?
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
But of course. The ASC is a good answer to a number of Olimar's attacks but simply using it over and over isn't good since it isn't as good as say peach.
The ASC priority is weird.
I do not understand it. I hav managed to break through bombs and Yoshi's eggs at the beginning of an ASC.
Weird *** move.
In ancyase its the angle at which it moves rather than priority.
Of course not. Most of sonic's kill moves are ruined by DI butit does allow him to set up for ane dgeguard and Ssince Olimar dislikes the air, thats good too.
Just as long as Olimar cannot get a foothold and Sonic maintains pressure. thats really the key for Sonic winning against Olimar, or anyone else vs Olimar in general.
You'll eat another Fair.But you can aerial dodge through the fair
and yes. agreed
If you airdodge my fair I side B pivot in the air and Fair. You won't be able to avoid it. I think. Not entirely sure actually ^_^;
Of course not but its best for limar to camp against Sonic hence why I assumed it.he does, but some olimar's don't camp 24/7. Just a forewarning
agreed with everything else
@Shadowlink:
lol sloppy multiquotes.
Spinshot can be pretty predictable in its own way though. Unless you cancel it with an aerial, airdodge, or spring, you can't really change spinshot's trajectory too quickly. Most Sonics will do a full 'forward' spinshot. Holding back and/or fastfalling work, but again, it's not exactly the quickest thing to do.
Spawn-springing only really works on people who aren't familiar with Sonic's tricks. I generally practice doing this on people in most games, but it's kind of easily 'countered' by double jumping off the spring, using N-air, or whatever. And since Olimar's pikmin pluck isn't very punishable, it doesn't really change too much xD;;
I'm in VA atm and am leeching off of a random network and keep disconnecting.
lol sloppy multiquotes.
Spinshot can be pretty predictable in its own way though. Unless you cancel it with an aerial, airdodge, or spring, you can't really change spinshot's trajectory too quickly. Most Sonics will do a full 'forward' spinshot. Holding back and/or fastfalling work, but again, it's not exactly the quickest thing to do.
Spawn-springing only really works on people who aren't familiar with Sonic's tricks. I generally practice doing this on people in most games, but it's kind of easily 'countered' by double jumping off the spring, using N-air, or whatever. And since Olimar's pikmin pluck isn't very punishable, it doesn't really change too much xD;;
(bad) experience(s).
I'm in VA atm and am leeching off of a random network and keep disconnecting.
JayBee
Smash Champion
sigh.. Olimar...
Im convinced this is a really hard matchup. Pikmin are annoying projectiles, and provoke careless rushes by sonic regardless of how "easily" you get them off. YOu gotta approach sometime, Olimar doesn't need to right away. A basic combination of Fsmashes and retreating Grabs, which look very similar, negate Sonics ground game well, which means you need to go in the air more, and means you are going to rely on his slow fall speed and aerials to get in, which Olimar can time and swat you out of the sky because we got two things, spring and Spinshot, to increase his aerial movement. eventually he'll get what you are doing. Then He'll just camp your landing because your falling speed is slow and mindgame uairs, Up Smash, and other aerials.
I noticed that Olimars seem to want to grab you just as much as you want to grab them, so keep that in mind.
Sonic has to not get coaxed into careless approach, and play percentages wisely. The spotdodge is something to expect off the bat from olimar, and the D Smash is used often in this situation. If you can discourage this quickly, probably by baiting it and quickly punish with a spin or a Dsmash, then that's a start. I feel like Sonic can win if he can get in, score a knockdown, and punish the **** outta him for as much as he can for as long as he can, then try to gimp him asap.
That's all i can say for now, he's not a character I have strong experience playing against.
Im convinced this is a really hard matchup. Pikmin are annoying projectiles, and provoke careless rushes by sonic regardless of how "easily" you get them off. YOu gotta approach sometime, Olimar doesn't need to right away. A basic combination of Fsmashes and retreating Grabs, which look very similar, negate Sonics ground game well, which means you need to go in the air more, and means you are going to rely on his slow fall speed and aerials to get in, which Olimar can time and swat you out of the sky because we got two things, spring and Spinshot, to increase his aerial movement. eventually he'll get what you are doing. Then He'll just camp your landing because your falling speed is slow and mindgame uairs, Up Smash, and other aerials.
I noticed that Olimars seem to want to grab you just as much as you want to grab them, so keep that in mind.
Sonic has to not get coaxed into careless approach, and play percentages wisely. The spotdodge is something to expect off the bat from olimar, and the D Smash is used often in this situation. If you can discourage this quickly, probably by baiting it and quickly punish with a spin or a Dsmash, then that's a start. I feel like Sonic can win if he can get in, score a knockdown, and punish the **** outta him for as much as he can for as long as he can, then try to gimp him asap.
That's all i can say for now, he's not a character I have strong experience playing against.
Who told you our secrets?
The thing is, they won't have to carelessly rush at you BECAUSE of how easy it is to get the Pikmin off. So there are regards to the ease of Pikmin removal.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
@Shadowlink:
lol sloppy multiquotes.=p I was playing fallout 3 when a ninja bear attacked me =[
True but the trajectory of the spnshot is much lower allowing Sonic to get at Olimar more quickly without fear of Olimar runnin away.
I do use the spin jump but I just fnd the spinshot to work better for me overall.
It does help in adding pressure on the opponent.
Place a ground spring, Olimr spawns, he bounces of it, double jumps, runs out of invincibility frames on the way down, proceed to harass wth uair
A
It really only works on Olimar because he is floaty and doesn't have much of an aerial game AND IT JUST KEEPS HIM OFF THE GROUND THAT MUCH LONGER.
(bad) experience(s).
haaaaaa!I'm in VA atm and am leeching off of a random network and keep disconnecting.
Fino
Smash Master
So, before I post another sizeable wall of garbage text (lulz) I want to say: NOW ACCEPTING CHALLENGES FROM (preferable the best) SONICS
okay, done looking like my career is mixing cement, I will move on to posting ^_^
Poor edguarding my ***. You're too afraid to jump off the ledge than yeah, maybe, you still have tether, pikmin toss, and fsmash if you want to play it safe.
Slow grab - lol... play olimar again, and then compare his grab with other grabs, taking into consideration of lag and what now
bad priority is a joke - use your range... their hit boxes are hard to get into olimar's tiny bodied hurt box (and past his range I might add).
weight helps more than hurts. You have this melee mentality, and it's people like you who claim things that are true in that game that don't apply here. lighter characters can get out of attacks faster - i.e. you should never get hit by pits fsmash with DI b/c you're light. this helps with a lot of sonics multihit moves (don't bother with usmash near the edge..... not worth it).
You can't complain about lack of recovery, and then floatyness... how many times can you seriously just use your double jump to get to almost the middle of the stage. Oh, that's right... you're still using jump to momentum cancel ROFLOLOLOL
I hope you're joking about bad get-up attack and bad roll. XD but really, are you joking? do those matter? Game changing attack,s and tier lists are based off of rolling and get up attacks... i forgot XD
bad tilts are lawlz too. Olimar tiltls have TOO much priority. Give up now, this is horrible
As for attacks to protect him as he lands... ALWAYS LAND CANCEL YOUR NAIR, my goodness, the hit box surrounds you... it protects from every angle and side.
Nair is also an interupting attack. smash di up + nair > mk's whornado. kthnx
no broken attacks... broken is thrown around to lightly... there's not attacks I can think of that break the game.
Sorry sonic boards.... after reading that... I dub danGR trash. Don't listen to what he says or has said.
I'ma head out to bed now, I've wall of texted you guys too much.
sleep = C-C-C-Combo breaker XD
~Fino
okay, done looking like my career is mixing cement, I will move on to posting ^_^
DanGR, after the past couple posts on the olimar forums, and this one; I'm declaring scrub status. GTFO
Poor edguarding my ***. You're too afraid to jump off the ledge than yeah, maybe, you still have tether, pikmin toss, and fsmash if you want to play it safe.
Slow grab - lol... play olimar again, and then compare his grab with other grabs, taking into consideration of lag and what now
bad priority is a joke - use your range... their hit boxes are hard to get into olimar's tiny bodied hurt box (and past his range I might add).
weight helps more than hurts. You have this melee mentality, and it's people like you who claim things that are true in that game that don't apply here. lighter characters can get out of attacks faster - i.e. you should never get hit by pits fsmash with DI b/c you're light. this helps with a lot of sonics multihit moves (don't bother with usmash near the edge..... not worth it).
You can't complain about lack of recovery, and then floatyness... how many times can you seriously just use your double jump to get to almost the middle of the stage. Oh, that's right... you're still using jump to momentum cancel ROFLOLOLOL
I hope you're joking about bad get-up attack and bad roll. XD but really, are you joking? do those matter? Game changing attack,s and tier lists are based off of rolling and get up attacks... i forgot XD
bad tilts are lawlz too. Olimar tiltls have TOO much priority. Give up now, this is horrible
As for attacks to protect him as he lands... ALWAYS LAND CANCEL YOUR NAIR, my goodness, the hit box surrounds you... it protects from every angle and side.
Nair is also an interupting attack. smash di up + nair > mk's whornado. kthnx
no broken attacks... broken is thrown around to lightly... there's not attacks I can think of that break the game.
Sorry sonic boards.... after reading that... I dub danGR trash. Don't listen to what he says or has said.
I just put my text in green... hopefully it makes it somewhat better ^_^
I'ma head out to bed now, I've wall of texted you guys too much.
sleep = C-C-C-Combo breaker XD
~Fino
Browny
Smash Hater
this isnt gonna end well
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
Do a Cat combo Spinshot overhead (springs hits them and pops them in the air), D-air (which hits them), run away and taunt.
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
- Messages
- 6,860
Stabbing at my credibilty, inteligence, and skill won't get you anywhere. I'd like you to point out the posts that gave you the impression that I don't know my character. I can and will back them up if you quote them.
I named all of Olimar's weaknesses that I could think of in that moment. (no matter how small they are)
I loosely define a weakness in Smash as a character trait that is below average among high-mid, high, or top tier characters.
It's not about being "too afraid" to jump off. It's about not being an idiot and risking a stock. What I meant by edgeguarding was going off the stage to keep an opponent from getting back to the stage. If you're still edgeguarding with fairs and dairs often, then your opponents have serious issues avoiding attacks. Olimar's fair and dair have bad priority and most attacks will beat it out. Being floaty makes it easier for opponents to see him coming because he doesn't move very fast aerial wise.
Using fsmash as an on-stage edgeuard is a good way to make up for Olimar's BAD offstage edgeguarding. Fsmash is a good way to hit people that are on the ledge. Most people that I've talked to define edgeguarding as guarding the edge. If they make it back, you haven't edgeuarded them well enough.
For a tether, the pre-lag on his grab is about average and the after-lag is very good.
Compared to non-tether grabs, the pre-lag is bad and the after-lag is average.
Most grabs aren't tethers though. With tethers, the grabbox extends toward the opponent and retracts when it hits or misses. Regular grabs have a grabbox that appears and then disappears while Olimar has to wait a bit for the pikmin to reach the opponent. During this time, quick attacks can interrupt his grab because he has no grab armor.
The grabbox on Olimar's grab will grab in 8 frames if the opponent is standing right next to Olimar. (which is still slower than normal grabs) When your opponent spaces an attack, the grab takes even longer to get to the opponent. When you couple that with having no grab armor, (as I said earlier) his grab isn't a very good close-range grab. There are some characters with lagless, landcanceled attacks and a fast jab can use the falling aerial->jab to interrupt Olimar's grab. Some examples include Squirtle, Sheik, Peach, and Luigi. And these characters do well versus Olimar! I wonder why!
What his grab does have is incredible range, which is good OoS against many attacks that are normally used to space. These attacks tend to have a little bit of lag, but people don't worry about the small amount of lag because they're spaced well. A great example is GaW's turtle. Olimar can shieldgrab the turtle because of the range on his grab.
A way we can try to avoid his bad priority is to space Olimar's ranged attacks, but that doesn't take away from the fact that they have bad priority. You can't outspace every attack, especially in the air. You have to clash with your opponent's attacks sometimes, and when you do, Olimar gets beaten out.
Also, for Olimar range=/=priority.
When you're light, you die earlier. While Olimar does get out of "combos" more easily, it doesn't outweigh the fact that he dies at a considerably lower percent than most characters. Whether you accept it or not, it is a weakness.
Being floaty means you fall slower and die off the top more easily. When you're flaoty, you float in the air- making you an easy target. You can't fast fall->airdodge through opponents very well, and you can't fast fall the to ground really quickly like Fox or Snake can.
Pit's fsmash is WAY too fast to DI out of without inhuman reflexes. If you know it's coming, you can jam the control stick back, but otherwise, it's not going to happen. The same thing goes for Sonic. His multihit attacks are either too fast and thus too difficult to DI in time, or impossible to DI out of completely. If you're going to argue otherwise, then you need video proof that you or someone else does this consistently.
I said it was a weakness. I never specified how big a weakness it is and didn't say it was a major flaw. I'm one of the few that actually know that his recovery isn't a huge deal. It still isn't a good or even an average recovery. I consider that a "weakness".
Being floaty helps Olimar to recover, but it doesn't outweigh the bad parts about it onstage that I mentioned earlier.
I momentum cancel with Olimar's second jump when I have no other choice! If I KNOW I'm going to die, I use it. If not, I don't waste my second jump. I already told you this in that thread you made.
The SOLE reason Olimar doesn't have an 70-30 matchup on DDD (and instead about a 60-40 matchup on him) is because Olimar is very easy to tech chase. I condsider that a flaw. If you don't, then you're an idiot.
Olimar's uptilt is good situationally. It does have good priority, but you have to commit the attack. Against obvious approaches such as Wario's or Fox's dair, it is a good way to beat them.
His ftilt is awful. It moves him forward, making it very unsafe upon block. It has no combo potential.
His dtilt is about average. It does combo nicely at low percents, but most dtilts do it better. It moves Olimar forward- again, making it unsafe upon block.
Even with land-canceling, his nair is unsafe. It lacks range and is shieldgrabbed easily. It does not protect Olimar as he lands. Olimar has no attacks that are good at protecting him as he lands. His fair has bad priority and nair lacks range. Ground attacks generally trade hits with nair (which will only deal about 1 percent because it's multhit) or beat it out. Both are shieldgrabbed by most of the cast as well.
That's called DI.
"Broken" is a subjective term so I'll leave this one alone.
I'll keep that in mind.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Don't be silly of course you aren't just going to drop straight down to the ground.
sonic can and will chase you and plants a ground spring beneath you.
Blue terrorist performed it twice.
Its in a video here actually.
its an 8 frame grab.
On average, grabs are 6 frames.
Only other grabs thata re of that speed is Snake's and other tether grabs.
He isn't Marth and there are several characters that can simply attack through the pikmin.
Fair and Usmash can be DI'ed out of.
not sure about the utilt since it has rather good vertical range.
In general DI mostly helps to ge tout of moves with lots of hits to them or are killing moves.
so i think the issue is more that when he is struck he ends up above the opponent often.
That isn't the issue that Dan is pointing out. Everyone can use their double jump to cancel momentum. its the fact that once Olimar is recoverin he practically states how he is going to recover and from where.
Of course his reovery is leagues better than Link's (WHY SAKURAI WHY!?) but in general, most characters can just continously pressure him and rack up damage.
Actually those are taken into accuont too since it reflects on their ability to escape pressure and can raise them up and down.
Its a non disjointed move like Sonic's nair so the priority isn't too good.
And ground moves like his tilts are dependant on the amount of damage they produce.
bad example. Sonic can Dair MK after DIing out of the tornado.
interruptible attacks ar emoves that are so fast that as soon as you are hitstu you can attack while the opponent is still in the midst of their attack.
jigglypuff's rest
Yoshi and Luigi's nair.
So they can actually Di into the opponent and Nair or Rest in jigglypuff's case where as if Olimar was in the same position, he would just keep getting hit
I think its more of an interpretation thing.
you don't see the grab as slow because its only a 2 frame difference and you can pivot grab to fix the speed issue.
But dangr speaks that in comparison to other characters it is indeed slower.
*shot*
Edit: 14 frame grab!?
I thought it was 8 @_@
I was so wrong so dreadfully wrong!
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
just a note on pits f smash.
i used to think it was too fast for a lot of things too, but i played this pika and he beat me on the last stock by bumrushing my f smash, powershielding the first hit and than n airing before the second even came out...
IT BLEW MY EFFING MIND...
so yea... pit f smash isnt as great as you think
p.s. did this fool above me just say that you can DI out of fox's up smash?
explanation plox?
i used to think it was too fast for a lot of things too, but i played this pika and he beat me on the last stock by bumrushing my f smash, powershielding the first hit and than n airing before the second even came out...
IT BLEW MY EFFING MIND...
so yea... pit f smash isnt as great as you think
p.s. did this fool above me just say that you can DI out of fox's up smash?
explanation plox?
Chis
Finally a legend
This is so true....this isnt gonna end well
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
- Messages
- 6,860
I was wrong. I remember reading "14" in this thead.
It said the duration was 14 frames- not the startup. 8 frames seems right.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
/facedesk
Seriously, read the friggin posts rather than going "WOMG THE PERSON I AM BIASED AGAINST POSTED!"
SO I WAS RIGHT!
MY FEARS HAVE BEEN VANQUISHED!
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
thats why i asked for an explanation
i asked if i read correctlly
iam asking again if i read that correctly.
i read it like 2-3 times the first time through and thats what i saw, but if you are saying i read incorrectly ill go back and read it again
i asked if i read correctlly
iam asking again if i read that correctly.
i read it like 2-3 times the first time through and thats what i saw, but if you are saying i read incorrectly ill go back and read it again
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
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- 6,860
He was talking about Sonic's upsmash and fair.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
ahhhhhhhh...
could have sworn that it sadi fox, i double took and re read it like twice. but i must be dyslexic
could have sworn that it sadi fox, i double took and re read it like twice. but i must be dyslexic
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
ohhhh ok,
i got Fair and fox mixed up, i usually dont see people type f-air that way...
lol my bust on that one.
i got Fair and fox mixed up, i usually dont see people type f-air that way...
lol my bust on that one.
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
- Messages
- 6,860
So guys...
I'm assuming you haven't seen this video or you'd already be invading the tier list thread by now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blLij6YRJTg
Anyways, I wonder if Fino is even going to respond to my post. ._.
I'm assuming you haven't seen this video or you'd already be invading the tier list thread by now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blLij6YRJTg
Anyways, I wonder if Fino is even going to respond to my post. ._.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
that fox is trash-garbage, stank-up-the-building tier...
that beign said, sonic is going to once again get shafted on the tier list.
that beign said, sonic is going to once again get shafted on the tier list.
That's odd...the Japanese voice actor for Sonic sounds vaguely similar to the American voice actor for Fox. Maybe it's just me.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
he problem is that we typically are ignored. =(
Boxob.
Smash Lord
OLIMAR ***** SONIC.
Ask ryan.
Ask ryan.
Boxob.
Smash Lord
I can't even believe it, Olimar is the best character in the game. End of story.
All you have to do is grab. Just grab, that's it. What about killing? Oh don't worry, his grabs kill too.
All you have to do is grab. Just grab, that's it. What about killing? Oh don't worry, his grabs kill too.
1. Pick MKI can't even believe it, Olimar is the best character in the game. End of story.
All you have to do is grab. Just grab, that's it. What about killing? Oh don't worry, his grabs kill too.
2. Dsmash Olimar
3. Nair a bunch offstage
4. ???
5. Profit!
Boxob.
Smash Lord
You failed at number two.
You can't even nado, he can grab you out of it.
Let alone getting in close enough to dsmash without getting grabbed.
Browny
Smash Hater
Wolf is much more fun for dealing with olimar
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
peach too
10 char
10 char
Boxob.
Smash Lord
Ryan-K
Smash Master
i wonder what caused boxob's now burning hate of olimar
thecatinthehat
Smash Master
Well. He tried learning to play Olimar. Didn't work out too well.
Something about this post is just way too funny. Good job.All you have to do is grab. Just grab, that's it. What about killing? Oh don't worry, his grabs kill too.
Considering you put such an emphasis on the word **** I can only assume you were serious. In which case my response is as follows; You sir, are an idiot.
It's a basically even match and a well-played Peach can really make Olimar work for victory.
Lol at you actually using Zangoose. I currently have nobody to play against, and my skills are dulling for lack of use... /crySomething about this post is just way too funny. Good job.
Ryan-K
Smash Master
Chis
Finally a legend
Your sarcasm is amusing.
[/sarcasm]
[/sarcasm]
Ryan-K
Smash Master
you're good at this game and you play a great character