Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread

[thecatinthehat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkiCPq0GmLs

2:37

Do it.

 

[Camalange]

Didn't someone mention Nair being able to eat mortars? I'm not too sure how that works exactly, anyone else have knowledge on that?

Snake can be cyphergrabbed obviously. Won't happen to often, but it's much easier to do it to him than Sonic so it's something to keep in mind.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Shieldgrab the hit where he slides into you and pops you into the air for DAC. Instantly bthrow to dodge the falling mortar.
This fight really isn't that difficult ;o
The projectiles aren't an issue, it's just the stupid superhadouken hitboxes Snake covers the stage in. You need for most of the fight to hover around mid-close range, just outside of Snake's melee attack range. You need to wait for an opening, and get him into the air. ASC seems a very good option, as it racks damage well too. He's not as bad as people make him out to be up there, but Sonic pretty much outmatches him aerially.
As for gimping, I usually go for strong nairs myself.

 

[da K.I.D.]

jab, to first f-tilt to up tilt can combo, and its ugly

down air sucks
forward air sucks
neutral air is good for edgeguarding but if you DI and SDI up, it sucks
when going for juggles, snakes will try to FF a back air onto you or grenade counter

grenade counters **** hardcore, expect to be hit by them alot against good snakes
i think forward smash outranges the first f-tilt
at the middle of the stage, ALL OF HIS MOVES (with the exception of throws and up b,) kill under 150
someone gimme a list of attacks that go through mortar, ill start
up smash
SDJ
f- air
d-air
n-air
b-air
d-smash
u-tilt

down throw against a good snake has absolutely NO SAFE OPTIONS
stand up, regrab
roll backwards, turnaround f-tilt or grab
getup attack, shield grab
roll forward, DAC
stay still, up tilt

the snake in my area can 0-death people on the platforms of BF

jab outprioritises anything with bad spacing.
dont roll behind snake f-tilt everytime
ASC-up tilt.
HA-up tilt
spinshot-turnaround up tilt
they camp with cooked nades, and be wary of throwing them back, grenade striping is gay
im actually going to play the snake dude now...
im thinking of just resorting to ledge camping in this match


snake wins 65-35
ill leave it up to you guys to figure out sonics strengths in this match.

 

[da K.I.D.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkiCPq0GmLs

2:37

Do it.

this

lots and lots of this.

more comments on the vid
1:20 dont do that... EVER
1:48 do that too
2:03 very important
2:12 dont jump into the **** like that

 

[Greenstreet]

Good video! Relies very little on the SDR..

 

[Tenki]

raaaarr Snake is sooo fun to play against as Sonic.

As for gimping, a simple bair should knock him out of his cypher. You can grab release him from his cypher.

Be mindful of nades/mines. You shouldn't have to worry about C4. You can run past with ease.

Sonic can SDR through missles.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wkiCPq0GmLs&fmt=18
remember kiddies, this video DOESN'T reflect the matchup lol. Snake is his worst character, and on top of that, it's wifi.

HOWEVER, there are really cool demonstrational tricks in there.

1- Good Snakes will, just like how Sonic can do something like it, avoid placing their up-B's near the edge. They'll usually try to fly really high above stage. Sometimes, some Snakes will float away from the edge and set themselves up for an edgehog (sadface). But the majority of them will avoid it.

IF the Snake is 'pinned' and MUST recover near the edge, grab him as his arms/cypher are passing the stage. The cypher will knock you out of your grab and force a 'ground release'. Since you're by the edge, Snake will fall downwards unable to do anything for about half a second. 2:02 on that video. Good luck trying to C4 this one ;]

2- Cool note for the crazy people. C4 auto-detonates in 25 seconds. How do I know?
1:28 - c4 dropped
1:53 - c4 explode lol

3- Sonic can SDR through nikitas.
..until Snake cancels it. Snakes will usually cancel them if you try to go through them.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Looking at that match against Fiction, grabs seemed to work hardcore against Snake.

 

[thecatinthehat]

2- Cool note for the crazy people. C4 auto-detonates in 25 seconds. How do I know?

lololololol. I had a feeling you knew this.

 

[da K.I.D.]

his jab and tilts are faster than sonics grab you have to grab them as they are landing usually

 

[thecatinthehat]

Shield grab always, just in case.
His tilt might push you away. So what? That's alot better than actually eating the tilt.

 

[da K.I.D.]

but in that case you cant counter attack and leaves you at a neutral position, which better for snake because then he cna start up his stage control again

 

[Tenki]

Spin shot is your friend here against nades. Also I have a hilarious vid of me owning a Snake main with his own nade. What do we think of he DAC? I never seem to get hit by it all, is that a DI issue?

Running > Spinshot vs grenades. Spinshot, you slow down towards the end of it - IN THE AIR, whereas running, you don't waste any time charging, and you're on the ground the whole time.

Just wondering, when anyone else plays and Snake tries to use something to get a grenade to hit you, do you:
a) gtfo of the grenade?
b) ignore/use the grenade, as long as it hits Snake too?
c) try to control the grenade?

I tend to do B. lol most Snakes like, try to tank you with the grenade, but I do everything possible to get him past 140%. iono, it's not a very good approach to the issue, but if they think I'm going to chicken out because of grenade countering, I'm taking them down with me. ><;

 

[Kinzer]

You should all know that a grounded SC, no matter how charged, can and will clank with Snake's tilts.

Oh, and you can drop a Spring on Snake's Down-Smash otherwise known as his Proximity Mine IIRC.

Do whatever you can to get Snake offstage, he is less of a threat of he's in the air.

His Utilt will cancel out your HA, don't get careless when you're trying that method of recovery and Snake is on the edge waiting for you and he knows that you're coming for him.

L2Use Grenades to your advantage, you're freaking Sonic. You shouldn't be having too much trouble with them.

Don't get careless when fighting Snake, one mistake and it can mean a stock. He's just too powerful with a lot of his attacks, not to mention speedy and with a lot of range, that you can't afford to leave yourself open for long.

For stages, I would take Snake to somewhere like Rainbow Cruise, (Jungle Japes?), (Frigate Orpheon?), Norfair...anybody else have some ideas?

If you can, don't let Snake take you to BF, he has too much stage control with his remote and Proximity Mines, tilts, and Grenades.


With all that said, All hope is not lost for Sonic...at worst, I would give this matchup rate a 60-40 advantage: Snake, but to me that's stretching it. Sonic has things going for him in this war. In real life, Hedgehogs have quills to protect from Snake bites, and have a natural immunity to venom.

Seriously though, Snake may be fast with some of his attacks, but Sonic faster in general! Sonic also has a lot of fakeouts, it's all about being unpredictable and precise. Snake has the range, power, and control, but you got the element of surprise, Speed, and most of all, a fighting chance. Other people have it worse compared to Sonic, be grateful he can easily turn the tables as well as Snake's utility against him.

 

[Tenki]

Is there any frame data on Snake's duration/ending/landing lags?

that would be so beastly.

 

[Chis]

Keep this idea in mind while you judge the match up...

An example:

This matchup is pretty bad for ZSS, nowhere near 45:55. I'd put it more at 60:40 Snake, if not more.

Part of the problem I've noticed with most character boards is that they base off of matchup statistics, but forget to take into consideration individual character traits. Example:

You guys say that ZSS combos Snake well in the air, which is true. You say she can pressure Snake well and edgeguard him very well. It's all true.

Fact is, every character can do this to Snake. Every character can capitalize on his weaknesses well...When he's in the air, his recovery etc. ZSS isn't the only one.

This does not however make the matchup even close. Snake's Ftilt will always deal 21% damage, regardless of how well you can combo him in the air. His Dthrow will always lead to at least 12% damage, most of the time around 30, and if it's a good player with good prediction sometimes between 40-50.

Penetrating Snake's Ftilt is nearly impossible for ZSS. It's a wall that she's hard pressed to get around.

Snake is heavy, we all know this. You're not hard pressed to find a Snake living in the 170 % area vs ZSS, and ZSS is lucky to live to 120 vs Snake. Sometimes Snake can live past 200 vs ZSS. He can do it vs every other character, ZSS is no exception.

So while ZSS may win in some areas, you have to keep in mind this is still Snake. Yes he has weaknesses, but his strength, weight, speed of attacks, killing power and range far, far outweigh anything ZSS can do to Snake. Every Ftilt hurts ZSS SO much in comparison to other characters like DDD that can live long.

Snake wins this by a longshot. 65:35 I say.

 

[Kinzer]

Worst part of that quote is... that ZSS actually has safe answers to Snake. With Sonic, you are always in risk of putting yourself in punishment if the attack doesn't connect.

We have the priority part covered, but that still doesn't mean Sonic doesn't have any range anyway, and compare that to Snake...*shiver*.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Whilst it's true we should talk about match-up specific things and not empty generalisations like "you can combo Snake in the air easy", I think Sonic has an easy time with Snake then ZSS does. Getting the obvious out the way, Sonic's gonna be living longer because he's heavier. In addition, whilst Zamus' attacks have range, she doesn't have the speed or fluidity of attacks to punish Snake like someone like say...Sonic does? ;]
To be honest, the only reason this is in Snake's favour (40:60, IMO) is because Snake's going to be killing Sonic pretty easily.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I was thinking along the lines of 65:35.
Once Snake gets stage control it can be very difficult to push him out of it and his Ftilt has ridiculous range as does his Utilt (which means your dash attack isn't so safe anymore :*( )

Its not just the fact he kills early, but that his range and stage control is very good.
I honestly prefer Oliamr to Snake.

Still fun to face one.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

This match is slightly in Snake's favor.

Even though Sonic is a middleweight, Snake will be able to KO you earlier than you can KO him.
Also, it isn't a good idea to get you and Snake blown up by his grenades unless you have about a significant percentage advantage or a stock advantage. Even then, you may get punished.

BTW, If you want a stage to use against Snake, try Rainbow Cruise.

 

[Tenki]

Also, it isn't a good idea to get you and Snake blown up by his grenades unless you have about a significant percentage advantage or a stock advantage. Even then, you may get punished.

truuuue.

Or just do it if you just know that you're just that much better than your opponent lol.

I was thinking along the lines of 65:35.
Once Snake gets stage control it can be very difficult to push him out of it and his Ftilt has ridiculous range as does his Utilt (which means your dash attack isn't so safe anymore :*( )

Its not just the fact he kills early, but that his range and stage control is very good.
I honestly prefer Oliamr to Snake.

Still fun to face one.

iono, I wouldn't approach Snack with dash attack anyway unless he was already mid-move/ to punish post-move lag.

Otherwise, running shields are better.

 

[thecatinthehat]

truuuue.

Or just do it if you just know that you're just that much better than your opponent lol.




iono, I wouldn't approach Snack with dash attack anyway unless he was already mid-move/ to punish post-move lag.

Otherwise, running shields are better.

mmmmm...snack

 

[Tenki]

Snack, Meatknight, and Steak.

the triforce of food.
or alternatively,

Snake, Metaknight, and Meatknight.

Question, how easy is it for Sonic to get Snake in the air?

 

[thecatinthehat]

Question, how easy is it for Sonic to get Snake in the air?

Oh fairly easy. The real question is,

How easy is it for Sonic to follow up in the air?

 

[Boxob]

Oh fairly easy. The real question is,

How easy is it for Sonic to follow up in the air?

That was a dumb question. And a dumb try at sounding smart. lolol.

Snake is much easier to follow up into the air than it is to actually get him into hit.

Sonic pop up moves are his Uair, Usmash, Dtilt, Utilt, dash attack, and Uthrow.

Good luck landing any of those too often on a good snake.

 

[thecatinthehat]

That was a dumb question. And a dumb try at sounding smart. lolol.

Snake is much easier to follow up into the air than it is to actually get him into hit.

Sonic pop up moves are his Uair, Usmash, Dtilt, Utilt, dash attack, and Uthrow.

Good luck landing any of those too often on a good snake.

What are you smoking What?

Good Snake? Don't bring skill level into the question. We're assuming both are at they're highest level.

-Dash attack is fairly east to land on Snake. Actually, it's easy to land on anyone.
-Up-smash is even easier with Hyphen-smashing.But that wont send them up till higher percentages.
-D-tilt. What does Snake have against d-tilt? Outranges his f-tilt.

 

[Tenki]

-D-tilt. What does Snake have against d-tilt? Outranges his f-tilt.

O_O;

by 'outranges', you mean Sonic can stand outside of his F-tilt range and tilt an extended Snake, right? XD

But which part? The second part is fairly bleh to punish, but it's the first part that can be problematic. Can Sonic stand out of range of the first part and still hit Snake?

 

[thecatinthehat]

Can Sonic stand out of range of the first part and still hit Snake?

I can imagine so. But I just realize now, it'll just poke them. Meaning they wouldn't be sent up.

 

[MalcolmM]

snake is a horrible matchup. i agree with KID. snakes D-tilt horribly outranges sonic's.

Snakes up tilt probably hits sonic out of his D-tilt....

snakes jabs will **** the EASY dash attack approach.

Grenade camping will destroy approaches in general.

Assuming both characters are at the highest skill level means assuming snake isnt dying until 200%.

catinthehat are u going to gametable in mineola next week? if so u can show me why u think the matchup is so even.

 

[Boxob]

snake is a horrible matchup. i agree with KID. snakes D-tilt horribly outranges sonic's.

Snakes up tilt probably hits sonic out of his D-tilt....

snakes jabs will **** the EASY dash attack approach.

Grenade camping will destroy approaches in general.

Assuming both characters are at the highest skill level means assuming snake isnt dying until 200%.

catinthehat are u going to gametable in mineola next week? if so u can show me why u think the matchup is so even.

****, when's gametable?

 

[thecatinthehat]

snake is a horrible matchup. i agree with KID. snakes D-tilt horribly outranges sonic's.

Snakes up tilt probably hits sonic out of his D-tilt....

snakes jabs will **** the EASY dash attack approach.

Grenade camping will destroy approaches in general.

Assuming both characters are at the highest skill level means assuming snake isnt dying until 200%.

catinthehat are u going to gametable in mineola next week? if so u can show me why u think the matchup is so even.

yes when is it? I might look into this.

 

[Boxob]

If it isn't the 10th,12th, or 14th, I can go to it.

In the event that I do, CiTH you best be there.

 

[Kinzer]

CiTH, you had better go and give it your all. Sonic would do the same for you.

Also bring a piece of Steak for luck.

 

[Tenki]

snake is a horrible matchup. i agree with KID. snakes D-tilt horribly outranges sonic's.

Snakes up tilt probably hits sonic out of his D-tilt....

snakes jabs will **** the EASY dash attack approach.

Grenade camping will destroy approaches in general.

Assuming both characters are at the highest skill level means assuming snake isnt dying until 200%.

catinthehat are u going to gametable in mineola next week? if so u can show me why u think the matchup is so even.

Unlike most matchup discussions, I think ours will be focused more on comparing Sonic's ability to punish Snake's lagtime.

 

[Boxob]

I'll bring a steak sticker so you can put in on your controller, feel honored.

 

[thecatinthehat]

I need a link for the details. OMG, I live like 15 minutes away from Mineola.

 

[thecatinthehat]

So yeah. I found the link.http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199451&highlight=gametable
It's this Saturday.

I might be able to go.

 

[Boxob]

As in the 8th?

I'll be there with a steak sticker.

 

[thecatinthehat]

As in the 8th?

I'll be there with a steak sticker.

I think I'll legit be able to go. I have work. I get off like 2. Just in time for Melee singles.

 

[Boxob]

I think I'll legit be able to go. I have work. I get off like 2. Just in time for Melee singles.

**** Melee's going to be there?

I have to stop playing Brawl so I don't suck for Melee.